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Old 06-25-2019, 09:37 AM
guysmiley guysmiley is offline
 
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Default Rural Theft

Interesting Article on the old CBC this morning about rural theft specifically in the Conklin area.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...erta-1.5188314


Quote from the article:

"That's when he started popping shots," Mills recalled. "We're on the phone with the RCMP from Lac La Biche. And I told them, they're heading their way. They should intercept him. And then I said the guy was shooting at us. The officer said 'If you shoot at him, I'm going to charge you with manslaughter. I said I'm not shooting at him. He's shooting at us.'"

The thieves have all of the advantages. No fear of the law or the land owner.
And then when they get caught they burn down the victims house....
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:46 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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You are being shot at, but you can't defend yourself by shooting back, and then the thieves will get a slap on the wrist, and be back at it after a short stay in jail, or a healing lodge. And if you testify against them, they will be back for revenge, and the police will not be able to protect you. Our laws are a total joke.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:51 AM
ganderblaster ganderblaster is offline
 
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Well the RCMP are drafting a crime reduction strategy
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:51 AM
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Rural Crime Watch Open House, tonight in Cremona.

http://www.ckfm.ca/local/event/rural...ch-open-house/

Grizz
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:54 AM
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Well the RCMP are drafting a crime reduction strategy


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Old 06-25-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
Rural Crime Watch Open House, tonight in Cremona.

http://www.ckfm.ca/local/event/rural...ch-open-house/

Grizz
I'm all for coming up with strategies but I fear it will be an empty gesture until as a society we are willing to get tough on criminals. Stop letting repeat offenders out to re offend. I would place a large bet on the fact that the perpetrators in the news article have been arrested before for either violence, robbery or drugs.

As a society we couldn't even get Wynn's law on the books which made so much sense it's ridiculous. Whey keep criminal records if you can't reference them when deciding if somebody should be released from jail?
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:17 AM
Oldan Grumpi Oldan Grumpi is offline
 
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When they were shooting at Mills, he should have told the RCMP "Hey, I shot one!" and there'd have been a helicopter there in minutes...

It seems there are two kinds of crime in the eyes of police now; revenue generating and non-revenue generating. Seat belts, rolling stops and 10-overs are revenue generating and get all the man hours possible. Some meth head stealing your $70,000 truck is non-revenue generating, and unworthy of attention.

Yes, someone will get shot, and some hard working taxpayer protecting himself and his property will be in a heap of trouble. I think it's time to start a very visible public defence fund in anticipation of that. If we make enough noise and shame them enough, maybe - just maybe - they might get off their backsides.

Yes, I've had heavy losses to thieves as well....$70,000 in the last year alone, and probably totalling $100 k over the last decade. Other than me going to the local detachment to fill out a complaint, no cop ever came to even take a look.
I've probably recovered 30% of replacement through insurance, which they are rapidly clawing back through increased premiums. (I learned that insurance companies can even calculate depreciation on an anvil and a ball peen hammer....)

Last edited by Oldan Grumpi; 06-25-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:35 AM
Jayhad Jayhad is offline
 
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Originally Posted by guysmiley View Post


Quote from the article:

"That's when he started popping shots," Mills recalled. "We're on the phone with the RCMP from Lac La Biche. And I told them, they're heading their way. They should intercept him. And then I said the guy was shooting at us. The officer said 'If you shoot at him, I'm going to charge you with manslaughter. I said I'm not shooting at him. He's shooting at us.'"
I understood in Canada you can only defend yourself with equal force, wouldn't shooting someone that is shooting at you be equal force? Am I wrong?
Regardless there's going to be some lawyer bills.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:37 AM
JB_AOL JB_AOL is offline
 
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FFS.. It's not the RCMP or police's fault.

They do the best they can with the tools they have.

The Legal system is the issue. Until we can fix that, it doesn't matter how many times they capture these repeat offenders, as "by LAW" they are "punished" accordingly, and released.

RCMP/Police, have NOTHING to do with the punishments.

Trust me, if you guys knew any LEO's, you'd realize they are just as frustrated (if not more) as you, and would love the opportunity to shoot on sight.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:38 AM
guysmiley guysmiley is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jayhad View Post
I understood in Canada you can only defend yourself with equal force, wouldn't shooting someone that is shooting at you be equal force? Am I wrong?
Regardless there's going to be some lawyer bills.
If you are backed into a corner, then maybe you could call it self defense.

Chasing them down the highway gives you ample time to remove yourself from danger. Obligation of retreat I believe is the term. I don't agree with it, just saying.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jayhad View Post
I understood in Canada you can only defend yourself with equal force, wouldn't shooting someone that is shooting at you be equal force? Am I wrong?
Regardless there's going to be some lawyer bills.
they have to kill you first .

sad part is , i'm not even joking .

we have a mess here and there is no effort being made to rectify it . the local thieves that get caught get a fine , then come and steal more stuff to pay their fines . when the courts give these pos a fine they are putting more of our stuff at risk of being stolen . their friends are locked up so jail doesnt scare them , they just go hang with their buds for a while . i dont have the answers but something needs to change .
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:20 AM
Oldan Grumpi Oldan Grumpi is offline
 
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FFS...It's not the RCMP or police's fault.

Yes, to some extent it is. My truck was found, stripped, with at least two other stolen vehicles on a rented acreage. RCMP called me, and I immediately gave them a detailed list of the vehicles readily identifiable contents. The landlord, meantime, was quickly given permission to ‘clean up the property’, which very possibly included the roughly $10K worth of contents from my truck.

When I asked the RCMP member whose file it was, if I could see his photos of the scene in an effort to identify and regain some of my contents, he said he didn’t have any.

When I asked he if inventoried the rest of the loose articles found on the property, he said he hadn’t. He just said “There were tools all over the place”.

I guess the landlord probably ‘cleaned up’, alright. I have no way of knowing - but that’s sloppy police work. I know, the cop was a kid (certainly under 30) but that’s no excuse. That’s why we are supposed to have, at the very least, an experienced NCOIC in the detachment making sure things are done right.

Now, I’m not anti-cop or saying it’s all on them - but if they get lazy just because the justice system is lacking, then yes, there will surely be vigilantism.

And Jason Kenney - throwing money at it just so you can say you did? We’re not buying that. These thieving $*it rats need thirty days of forced, rock hard rehab. Dry them out so rough they’ll be terrified of ever having to go through it again, and maybe they’ll stop.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:28 AM
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
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Most Canadians deserve the abuse of power that they have allowed to manifest within their elected government, far to long has everyone just stuck their fingers in their ears and screamed lalalalalalalalalalala i can't hear you!

Tolerance acceptance and passivity breed rampant mediocrity and mental illness.

https://youtu.be/NUs6NDsMWVI
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ReconWilly View Post
Most Canadians deserve the abuse of power that they have allowed to manifest within their elected government, far to long has everyone just stuck their fingers in their ears and screamed lalalalalalalalalalala i can't hear you!

Tolerance acceptance and passivity breed rampant mediocrity and mental illness.

https://youtu.be/NUs6NDsMWVI
I disagree with that. I am very insulted by that. You just pigeonholed all Canadians with a very ignorant couple sentences. Shame on you.

'Most' Canadians lead lives consisting of working our bags off, raising our children the best way we know until they leave, taking care of our aging parents until they die and hoping for some semblance of peace in our lives. Just because 'most' are not out protesting the latest colorful fad painted by the media does not mean we deserve the garbage we get, it means that not everyone needs to do more than have faith in our leadership and elected officials, who speak for us.
If you know of a way to better our situation beyond who we vote for, please by all means enlighten us.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:03 PM
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
I disagree with that. I am very insulted by that. You just pigeonholed all Canadians with a very ignorant couple sentences. Shame on you.

'Most' Canadians lead lives consisting of working our bags off, raising our children the best way we know until they leave, taking care of our aging parents until they die and hoping for some semblance of peace in our lives. Just because 'most' are not out protesting the latest colorful fad painted by the media does not mean we deserve the garbage we get, it means that not everyone needs to do more than have faith in our leadership and elected officials, who speak for us.
If you know of a way to better our situation beyond who we vote for, please by all means enlighten us.

I am glad that got you fired up, i see at least one exception to "most Canadians"!, now where are you keeping the rest of them?

Let's fire up those primal instincts that they have been keeping us from accessing!
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ReconWilly View Post
I am glad that got you fired up, i see at least one exception to "most Canadians"!, now where are you keeping the rest of them?

Let's fire up those primal instincts that they have been keeping us from accessing!
Nope, sorry I do not buy it.
You wrote what you wanted to say, then are trying to spin it with a weak attempt at 'oh there is life in you after all'?

My point is that you just took a shot at Canadians with a blunderbuss, and many will not appreciate your aim.

You can't shoot me in the face, then say 'now that I have your attention let's go make a difference!'

Trainwreck, backfire, open bilge door, not sure your motive in a thread about rural crime but you are off the tracks with this one.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:12 PM
JB_AOL JB_AOL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Oldan Grumpi View Post
Now, I’m not anti-cop or saying it’s all on them - but if they get lazy just because the justice system is lacking, then yes, there will surely be vigilantism.
It's not a matter of being "lazy" (in most cases), it's lack of funding and prioritizing. For instance, small detachments typically have 3-4 members. That means 2 on duty, 1 on call, and 1 on days off, and that includes covering 100-200km (if not more) squared area. Somewhere in there, they are supposed to keep up on their training, do all the paperwork, and (since they are humans) holidays. Doesn't leave alot of coverage.

Now, they are supposed to prioritize stolen property over life and limb?

Did you know that 95% of their time is spent dealing with domestic disputes w/o any backup (single officer). Sounds like fun doesn't it.

Not a job I would want. I've seen first hand the PTSD caused by all this, it's not good.

/rant (Sorry Oldman Grumpi, I just hate how it is directed at them, when they can't do much about it. BUt I agree, there are lazy ones, just like any profession).
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldan Grumpi View Post
When they were shooting at Mills, he should have told the RCMP "Hey, I shot one!" and there'd have been a helicopter there in minutes...

It seems there are two kinds of crime in the eyes of police now; revenue generating and non-revenue generating. Seat belts, rolling stops and 10-overs are revenue generating and get all the man hours possible. Some meth head stealing your $70,000 truck is non-revenue generating, and unworthy of attention.

Yes, someone will get shot, and some hard working taxpayer protecting himself and his property will be in a heap of trouble. I think it's time to start a very visible public defence fund in anticipation of that. If we make enough noise and shame them enough, maybe - just maybe - they might get off their backsides.

Yes, I've had heavy losses to thieves as well....$70,000 in the last year alone, and probably totalling $100 k over the last decade. Other than me going to the local detachment to fill out a complaint, no cop ever came to even take a look.
I've probably recovered 30% of replacement through insurance, which they are rapidly clawing back through increased premiums. (I learned that insurance companies can even calculate depreciation on an anvil and a ball peen hammer....)
OldnGrumpi- I have always said it is a case of haves vs havenots. There is no point in convicting havenots, there is nothing to lose. Human nature cherry picking no matter what you do and who you are, everyone will reach for the low hanging fruit first, before strapping the ladder to the back of a truck and climbing to what may be your death.
It is truly horrible what you have lost, how you have been treated. Completely unfair.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:31 PM
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Nope, sorry I do not buy it.
You wrote what you wanted to say, then are trying to spin it with a weak attempt at 'oh there is life in you after all'?

My point is that you just took a shot at Canadians with a blunderbuss, and many will not appreciate your aim.

You can't shoot me in the face, then say 'now that I have your attention let's go make a difference!'

Trainwreck, backfire, open bilge door, not sure your motive in a thread about rural crime but you are off the tracks with this one.

I never took back anything that i clearly meant to say,i stand by it, i don't care who it offends or why, i am just pleased that it received the best possible response!

Good job Ken you passed with flying colors!
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by guysmiley View Post
I'm all for coming up with strategies but I fear it will be an empty gesture until as a society we are willing to get tough on criminals. Stop letting repeat offenders out to re offend. I would place a large bet on the fact that the perpetrators in the news article have been arrested before for either violence, robbery or drugs.

As a society we couldn't even get Wynn's law on the books which made so much sense it's ridiculous. Whey keep criminal records if you can't reference them when deciding if somebody should be released from jail?
One has to shake one's head. there is actually a campaign out there to sanitize poor oppressed , disadvantaged , Clayton Boushie, who was just out for an afternoon drive.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...rald-1.4520214

Over course of the next two days, the RCMP photographed the crime scene. The .22-calibre rifle, which belonged to Cross-Whitstone, was found near Boushie's body. It was bent out of shape and contained five bullets in the magazine and one in the chamber

Grizz
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:56 PM
Oldan Grumpi Oldan Grumpi is offline
 
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It’s one thing to grumble about the situation, and I do my fair share.

It’s another to offer a solution, and I think it might be mandatory minimum two year sentences for drug dealers, and mandatory 30 day rehabs for possession. Less dealers, less junkies, less theft.

If we can afford ‘safe injection sites’ surely we can afford bare bones lock-up rehab facilities instead.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhad View Post
I understood in Canada you can only defend yourself with equal force, wouldn't shooting someone that is shooting at you be equal force? Am I wrong?
Regardless there's going to be some lawyer bills.
Up to and including lethal force provided you did not intend use lethal force. Its a grey area that leave way to much interpretation. If you say you were shooting to kill then your automatically guilty. If you say shooting to wound as you had an immediate threat of grievous bodily harm or death you may be able to have a chance in court. If there was a way you to flee the situation and chose not to take it then you are guilty. This too is up to the interpretation of the officer and the court system.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:04 PM
Kolibri Kolibri is offline
 
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I spent some time in Conklin last Fall, I was shocked by the number of stories about how the RCMP wouldnt even come out after a B&E. It really surprised me a bit, since its really a limited access area, but it does seem a wild west kind of place.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:45 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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We need a Deadpool to come and chop these thieves up. Cops and courts are useless.

A friend of mine had his place broken into, truck and trailer loaded up and drove off with his stuff. Got pictures on his trail cam, located the truck in calling lake, cops said they couldn’t do anything about it, not even go have a look for any of his stuff. Said he’d have to catch them red handed.

Two years later he’s driving out to his acreage, sees a truck in the ditch loaded up with a bunch of things like generator, chainsaw etc. figured it looked like his stuff. Got to his acreage to find out the place was broken into again! Goes back to the truck in the ditch, now there’s another truck there and three of them transferring his property from one truck to the next. My friend gets out of his truck, walks up to their truck and verifies it’s his property then snaps. Starts yelling and told them he’s calling the cops and they have to sit tight. They start approaching him so he reaches in his truck and said “this gun is loaded, you’re going to wait for the cops”. Cops get there and arrest them. Fast forward a few months, he takes time off of work to go to court only to see the case get thrown out of court!!!!

Catches them once with a trail cam, not good enough.

Catches them red handed, not good enough.

Only one other option left imo.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldan Grumpi View Post

It seems there are two kinds of crime in the eyes of police now; revenue generating and non-revenue generating. Seat belts, rolling stops and 10-overs are revenue generating and get all the man hours possible. Some meth head stealing your $70,000 truck is non-revenue generating, and unworthy of attention.
^^^^^This.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:58 PM
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S.s.s.
Repeat as necessary.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:14 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldan Grumpi View Post
When they were shooting at Mills, he should have told the RCMP "Hey, I shot one!" and there'd have been a helicopter there in minutes...

It seems there are two kinds of crime in the eyes of police now; revenue generating and non-revenue generating. Seat belts, rolling stops and 10-overs are revenue generating and get all the man hours possible. Some meth head stealing your $70,000 truck is non-revenue generating, and unworthy of attention.

Yes, someone will get shot, and some hard working taxpayer protecting himself and his property will be in a heap of trouble. I think it's time to start a very visible public defence fund in anticipation of that. If we make enough noise and shame them enough, maybe - just maybe - they might get off their backsides.

Yes, I've had heavy losses to thieves as well....$70,000 in the last year alone, and probably totalling $100 k over the last decade. Other than me going to the local detachment to fill out a complaint, no cop ever came to even take a look.
I've probably recovered 30% of replacement through insurance, which they are rapidly clawing back through increased premiums. (I learned that insurance companies can even calculate depreciation on an anvil and a ball peen hammer....)
The police may not have time to investigate your theft, but you are correct, they always have time to hand out tickets that bring in revenue.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
We need a Deadpool to come and chop these thieves up. Cops and courts are useless.

A friend of mine had his place broken into, truck and trailer loaded up and drove off with his stuff. Got pictures on his trail cam, located the truck in calling lake, cops said they couldn’t do anything about it, not even go have a look for any of his stuff. Said he’d have to catch them red handed.

Two years later he’s driving out to his acreage, sees a truck in the ditch loaded up with a bunch of things like generator, chainsaw etc. figured it looked like his stuff. Got to his acreage to find out the place was broken into again! Goes back to the truck in the ditch, now there’s another truck there and three of them transferring his property from one truck to the next. My friend gets out of his truck, walks up to their truck and verifies it’s his property then snaps. Starts yelling and told them he’s calling the cops and they have to sit tight. They start approaching him so he reaches in his truck and said “this gun is loaded, you’re going to wait for the cops”. Cops get there and arrest them. Fast forward a few months, he takes time off of work to go to court only to see the case get thrown out of court!!!!

Catches them once with a trail cam, not good enough.

Catches them red handed, not good enough.

Only one other option left imo.

I, by the power of "our law" lay this badge for you to wear....deputy dog!

Now go get'em
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  #29  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:46 AM
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Shoot-Shovel-Shut up, Repeat. Keep it simple.
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  #30  
Old 06-26-2019, 07:10 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
We need a Deadpool to come and chop these thieves up. Cops and courts are useless.

A friend of mine had his place broken into, truck and trailer loaded up and drove off with his stuff. Got pictures on his trail cam, located the truck in calling lake, cops said they couldn’t do anything about it, not even go have a look for any of his stuff. Said he’d have to catch them red handed.

Two years later he’s driving out to his acreage, sees a truck in the ditch loaded up with a bunch of things like generator, chainsaw etc. figured it looked like his stuff. Got to his acreage to find out the place was broken into again! Goes back to the truck in the ditch, now there’s another truck there and three of them transferring his property from one truck to the next. My friend gets out of his truck, walks up to their truck and verifies it’s his property then snaps. Starts yelling and told them he’s calling the cops and they have to sit tight. They start approaching him so he reaches in his truck and said “this gun is loaded, you’re going to wait for the cops”. Cops get there and arrest them. Fast forward a few months, he takes time off of work to go to court only to see the case get thrown out of court!!!!

Catches them once with a trail cam, not good enough.

Catches them red handed, not good enough.

Only one other option left imo.
A half dozen guys wearing balaclavas taking baseball bats to their knees, would be more effective, than our joke of a legal system.
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