Where can I get clay dirt to line a large pond?

[jaydon44]

Hey guys, just bought an acreage near Lethbridge

We want to dig a large pond for dogs to keep cool and for swimming.....and wayyy down the line stock some trout. hoping for about 50x100ft still thinking about depth...maybe 15 ft

My main question is where can a guy get clay near lethbridge to line the pond with...i might not need it depending on what i find when i start digging but a quick search on the net shows the closest place advertising clay fill was edmonton :S

[sourdough doug]

Would we be correct in assuming that you have already done some core sampling in and around the area that you are wanting to use or even else where on this property...???

[KegRiver]

Bentonite might be a more workable solution.

A pallet of it ought to be enough. Just harrow in into the surface and compact with a field roller.

I don't know the current price but I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper then trucking in loads of clay.

Some information here; http://www.lightweight.ca/products/b...e-2/bentonite/

A supplier in Okotoks; https://www.wtl.ca/products/

I'm no expert so I'd suggest talking to the experts at Western Tank & Lining, or a similar business.

[lannie]

Call Tollestrup Construction in Lethbridge. They sell aggregates and will probably know where to get it or may have some themselves. Good place to start.

[vinny]

On hwy 25 just before Shaughnessy, there’s a farm on the west side of the highway. He sells clay fill. You dig and load. Can’t remember what he quoted me last time. There’s a sign out front with a phone number.

[Jims83cj5]

Not all clay works fir a pond liner, an attiberg test is required to determine permeability.

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Bentonite might be a more workable solution.

A pallet of it ought to be enough. Just harrow in into the surface and compact with a field roller.

I'm no expert so I'd suggest talking to the experts at Western Tank & Lining, or a similar business.

That would be a great solution if it was feasible. Too many risks though IMO.

Atterberg limits check the plasticity limits of clay, which is more structural building on clay.
You could do a permeability test on the clay but when I used to build sewage lagoons, if you get a small ball of the clay and if you can roll it in your palm until it’s size of a matchstick, it will hold water.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jaydon44

Hey guys, just bought an acreage near Lethbridge

We want to dig a large pond for dogs to keep cool and for swimming.....and wayyy down the line stock some trout. hoping for about 50x100ft still thinking about depth...maybe 15 ft

My main question is where can a guy get clay near lethbridge to line the pond with...i might not need it depending on what i find when i start digging but a quick search on the net shows the closest place advertising clay fill was edmonton :S

I agree with Keg. Bentonite is the best liner.

You should take a core. You may have clay at depth. If you have gravels you have more issues.

Gravels. Better off going with a fabric liner. Pressure of the water would just push the clays down and likely make for leaks.

Clays and dirt then bentonite. To ensure no leaks you should check into the thickness of the bentonite layer. In our much bigger lake it is over 2 feet thick of bentonite.

Do you have an existing slough? Dig that down may show better water holding ground.

Also you have water to fill it? Runoff water that won't erode. No cow crap in the runoff. Water well strong enough to fill and maintain evaporative loss. Water well not salty etc.

You need to build once fill once. Anything else will be a giant money pit. A few thousand in detail planning can save lots of heartache later.

Location. Runoff contouring. Using the fill to make a privacy berm. Contouring some ground to plant trees for summer shade. Using pond water for any irrigation? Emergency fire suppression system?

Lots to think about and plan.

The pond can’t be floodable into a river or creek or you won't get a permit to stock.

I think your 15 feet is a good minimum depth.

Steep sides protect from great blue heron predation.

Power to the pond for aeration is preferred with a backup wind mill style. Check with pond pro as to what they would recommend for pond construction with the goal of raising trout.

[madcarpenter]

Contact sixgunbishop on Instagram. He just advertised that he had a lot extra and he’s down south your way.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

That would be a great solution if it was feasible. Too many risks though IMO.

Please explain the risks... I know next to nothing about bentonite, but was under the impression that this was the sort of thing it was used for.

ARG

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

Please explain the risks... I know next to nothing about bentonite, but was under the impression that this was the sort of thing it was used for.

ARG

Sundance has a bentonite liner layer. It’s common however a thin layer won’t do it.

It’s a review of pond size, weight of water, bottom substrate etc. The only risk is not doing it right the first time imho.

Curious also what keg was thinking.

[KegRiver]

There are 48 50 pound bags in a pallet of bentonite.
Here one pound per square foot seems to work well.

But my calculations were in error. We have gray clay soils.

As I understand it Lethbridge area has Brown Chernozemic soils which require a heavier application of bentonite to seal. Up to 4 pounds per square foot.

In which case two to four pallets would be required for the proposed pond size.

This is what one expert has to say about sealing ponds with bentonite.

Bentonite Clay Application Rates for pond/lake bottoms

To properly apply bentonite to seal a pond, the pond must be drained and the bentonite clay then incorporated into the soil of the pond bottom and sides. The application rate for bentonite ranges from 2 pounds to more than 5 pounds per square foot depending on the soil characteristics. For clayey and silty soils, 2 pounds per square foot MAY be sufficient. For sandy soils 4 pounds MAY be sufficient and for soil containing gravel and rock, in excess of 5 pounds will be required to obtain a seal. Once the bentonite is applied, the soil should be disk harrowed to mix the soil and bentonite and then compacted.

Alternatively, a continuous blanket of bentonite clay can be applied to the soil and then carefully covered with clean soil or sand to prevent the clay from mobilizing into the water column. Placing the bentonite in a confined layer is far more effective as it forces the clay into adjacent soil pores creating a more effective seal.

For best results, test application rates with your soils by treating a small area at the anticipated bentonite clay application rate. Drive a 12" or larger diameter smooth wall pipe at least 8" into the soil column. Manually compact the soil within the pipe and fill with 18" or more of water. Measure the rate of decline in the pipe and adjust application rate for your soils as needed.

Here, application was a fairly simple matter of spreading the bentonite evenly over the surface and then working it in with a field discer followed by compacting it with a field roller.

Since bentonite is self sealing, it swells to several times it's original volume when it is exposed to water, compaction is more a matter of keeping it in place then in creating a seal.

Since benotonite is a naturally occurring clay there are no known risks involved in it's use, that I am aware of.

[lannie]

Call Layfield plastics or similar and tell them you want to build a pond for a few ideas and quotes that may be more economical and easier.

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Sundance has a bentonite liner layer. It’s common however a thin layer won’t do it.

It’s a review of pond size, weight of water, bottom substrate etc. The only risk is not doing it right the first time imho.

Curious also what keg was thinking.

Yep, just as sundancefisher and keg pointed out, the risk with harrowing in bentonite is that you will not be sure of a complete seal until it fills with water. If it’s done wrong, then you have to drain and re do again.

If you go sundancefishers way of a complete bentonite liner overtop of soil, you are assured a complete seal.

The difference in cost I assume would be 10:1 ( sundancefisher/keg).

If it were my pond, I would look for a low lying areas, dig some test pits and go from there.

[JDK71]

Just finshed a pond 60x40 x20 deep healed the slopes with bottom of bucket as i was cutting the slopes . Healing your slopes as you are cutting is one of the best ways to seal the slopes when the sun is shining off the slopes it looks good and really helps with keeping the water in

[pikeman06]

Yes many factors to consider before digging a big hole. if it wasn't heavy clay when you dug it I would question its ability to hold water at all. Is it catching runoff or do you have a spring nearby in mind to tap into? Not trying to discourage you by any means but if you are looking for dirt to add to dirt it doesn't always bind with the existing stuff. Bentonite is an option but it shouldn't be required if the dugout is in water holding type soils. It would also inhibit the dugout from filling initially through groundwater. It's so dry this year the groundwater in my area anyway retracts and will actually suck the water out of certain dugouts. I'm east central in heavy gumbo clay and even here there are dugouts that fail. We dig test holes first and sometimes a hundred yards makes a huge difference. If you are just catching runoff that's a whole different ballgame, obviously you dig where the water pools or runs to. Nothing nicer than your own pond tho and I wish you the best of luck.

[Pembina]

Try contacting some excavation Company's locally, they some times have locations where they are getting rid of material and if your located where it reduces their haul distance you could get material for free.

[NCC]

Has anyone priced out bentonite? I have a 400' by 150' by 25' pond that won't hold water but I'm afraid it will cost north of $50 000 to seal it with bentonite.

[dbg498]

Don't mean to hijack this thread but we didn't use a bentonite liner when we built Sundance Lake. We dug the lake down until we found blue clay which was down about 20'. We then dug a keyway all around the outside of the lake using scrapers and backfilled the keyway with blue clay. The keyway is at least 13' thick. We did use bentonite to seal around the waterline intake for the pumphouse where it went thru the keyway. The previous poster is right about the clay being able to hold water when you can roll it thin without crumbling.

[jaydon44]

Thanks everyone for responses! has given me lots to think about and research

I have not dug a test pit yet, we have a 2.5 acre property and there's only one spot a pond could possibly go for us. there are many farmer dugouts close by and dugouts for lethbridge northern irrigation district. Also we understand the water table is quite high 10-15 feet in areas i believe; is this a good thing for ponds? that's interesting that drier years can suck pond water into the ground water.

I was going to ask around for the area and see what the farmers had to do for their dugouts... was asking about clay just in case the test pit yielded dirt that won't hold water.

I have access to some heavy equipment so that should keep the costs down, i don't think i would be considering this if it was going to cost me thousands of dollars. the greatest expense would be the need to line it i think

Thanks again, and keep the info coming this is good stuff!

[NCC]

If your pond isn't that big, you could probably line it with a silage tarp and then put some dirt over the liner for protection.

[Red Bullets]

Don't know if this is accurate but could be something to look into.

If there is a developer in the area I know sometimes they are begging for places to get rid of top soils they remove so maybe sometimes they could have some clay to get rid of too. One developer approached me to see of I wanted some when I had the farm. I didn't but it would have been free if I wanted some.

Some dugout building info to consider. Could take a 3 or more years of habitat growth before you can plant fish.

https://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex1348/$file/485_716-1.pdf?OpenElement

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by dbg498

Don't mean to hijack this thread but we didn't use a bentonite liner when we built Sundance Lake. We dug the lake down until we found blue clay which was down about 20'. We then dug a keyway all around the outside of the lake using scrapers and backfilled the keyway with blue clay. The keyway is at least 13' thick. We did use bentonite to seal around the waterline intake for the pumphouse where it went thru the keyway. The previous poster is right about the clay being able to hold water when you can roll it thin without crumbling.

This keyway of which you speak, is that also called a 'core trench'? See, I don't mind hijacking the tread at all

ARG

[Big Grey Wolf]

Oil company built a Fish Pond (Frac pond) on a 20 acre site on our trap line. They pumped for week filling pond, it failed and they lost All the water. They had to add liner. Even professional built ponds can fail.

[Okotok]

Some good comments above about using the correct clay as some are much more permeable than others. We built an anaerobic sewage pond for Dow Chemical back in the late 80's. It was approximately 400' x 200'. There was a nearby source (borrow pit) of high plastic clay identified by Dow that we used for the liner. It would have been great for pottery. The liner was compacted 3' thick over the entirety of the pond. We then filled it from adjacent ponds using a couple of jimmy diesel driven 10" pumps. Held water just fine but likely a lot more work and expense than you're willing to do. A HDPE or Bentonite filled, Claymax/Bentomat liner would likely be a lot faster and cheaper (still not cheap) solution.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pikeman06

Yes many factors to consider before digging a big hole. if it wasn't heavy clay when you dug it I would question its ability to hold water at all. Is it catching runoff or do you have a spring nearby in mind to tap into? Not trying to discourage you by any means but if you are looking for dirt to add to dirt it doesn't always bind with the existing stuff. Bentonite is an option but it shouldn't be required if the dugout is in water holding type soils. It would also inhibit the dugout from filling initially through groundwater. It's so dry this year the groundwater in my area anyway retracts and will actually suck the water out of certain dugouts. I'm east central in heavy gumbo clay and even here there are dugouts that fail. We dig test holes first and sometimes a hundred yards makes a huge difference. If you are just catching runoff that's a whole different ballgame, obviously you dig where the water pools or runs to. Nothing nicer than your own pond tho and I wish you the best of luck.

Unless your aquifer is artesian you don’t want any connection to ground water. While water can seep in…it can also seep out…. If you have gravels it can fill in the spring melt and drain over the summer and winter.

You want 100% control of your water. If you have water close to surface…drill a well amd pump the water in.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by NCC

Has anyone priced out bentonite? I have a 400' by 150' by 25' pond that won't hold water but I'm afraid it will cost north of $50 000 to seal it with bentonite.

You can buy bentonite by the train load out of Ontario. It is expensive but a fabric liner would be even more costly.

You want as much as you need then 30% more. If you think it’s expensive to build once…imagine draining and trying to fix it after the fact.



Another good thing to do is to talk to the neighbours. They may have knowledge on pond building in your area.

Also check with your county… ask if they need fill for anything. You may get someone to dig the hole to get their dirt.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Lots of bentonite outcrops along many roads in Alberta. Just talk to local farmer to see if you can haul a few truck loads for your pond.

[Dean2]

Interesting read. I apparently know nothing about pond building and had no idea it was this complicated. Up north, we dug Borrow pits for road building, well sites, etc. They filled up with water, so we used them to water cattle. Never knew it was supposed to be this complicated.

[farmdad]

Originally Posted by jaydon44

Hey guys, just bought an acreage near Lethbridge

We want to dig a large pond for dogs to keep cool and for swimming.....and wayyy down the line stock some trout. hoping for about 50x100ft still thinking about depth...maybe 15 ft

My main question is where can a guy get clay near lethbridge to line the pond with...i might not need it depending on what i find when i start digging but a quick search on the net shows the closest place advertising clay fill was edmonton :S

We have a lot of clay around our pond and it’s so muddy. Drives us nuts how dirty the dogs get every time they want to go play in there.