XCR, ACR, or Tavor? Coyotes and plinking.

[calvin5673]

Hey all,

I'm brand new to this forum, not 100% sure if this is where I should be posting this. I apologize in advance if this is the wrong spot, too long, in a poor format, and would welcome someone directing me to fix any errors.

So it here it goes. I'm looking to purchase a firearm sometime this summer, I figure its time to add a semi to the collection. Purpose will be equal parts plinking and coyote shooting. This is what I'm looking for in requirements:

1) Non-Restricted, I have my RPAL, just not looking for a restricted yet
2) Semi-Auto
3) .223 calibre, preferably able to shoot 5.56 as well
4) Accepts AR Mags, really want to be able to shoot more than 5 rounds while plinking
5) Accuracy needs to be around 1 MOA (I'll be shooting higher-end factory or reloading)
a) this will be for the coyotes, I'm comfortable shooting 300 yards with my bolt, and would like the same ability with this.
b) Rail system easily compatible with scopes(i.e no hard to remove sights in the way), again for the coyote hunting.
6) Something kinda tactical looking would be nice

The XCR seems to be the cheapest option/most available for what I want, and from what I've seen meets the criteria, except for the accuracy part, of which I've heard very mixed reviews. The earlier models suffered from some growing pains, but it also seems those have been worked out. So if anyone has any experience with new XCR's and their accuracy I'd love to hear about it. Or ways to improve the accuracy.

The Tavor looks pretty cool, and seems like it would an awesome little gun, reliable, and great for close-up shooting. Has anyone had any experience with them at 300+yards? Are they capable of hitting 3" groups, assuming I can do my part?

Finally the ACR, seems pretty hard to find as non-restricted right now, and very similar to the XCR. Its also ~$400 more expensive. Has anyone done a side by side comparison of a new XCR and ACR. Is it worth the extra money, or for less could I enhance the XCR more. Also, where can I find them? SFRC had some for preorder, haven't seen any since.


Like I mentioned, this is my first foray into semi-autos. I've been scouring youtube for reviews for weeks and any help would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps there are some I've missed, and should be adding to my list to consider.

Thanks in advance!


Calvin,

[MadMarty911]

I personally haven't had time with an xcr, but the non-res bushmaster ACR is a dream. While a tad heavy for some, the fit and finish is excellent and had no problems shooting 1.5moa at 120 yards with an aim point and norinco yellow box. This is with 4 different shooters.

[plmnnkoqaz]

I have been able to get MOA or slightly better groups with a couple different loads in the XCR. I have had good luck with 69gr SMK's over imr 4320 and 55gr FMJ's over the same. Just picked up some h335 and hoping for some good plinking loads.

[calvin5673]

Thanks for the quick responses! Every bit of info helps tonnes.

[Groundhogger]

A friend and I both had XCR-L rifles (new, in .223) and both ended-up selling them about a year later. NOT because of accuracy reasons, reliability reasons, but because of weight. I hunted with mine all last summer and loved shooting it, just couldn't get cozy with lugging around that much heft for 5-6 kms in the sweltering, Ontario summer heat/humidity. Ran like a top though. It shot 55gr. Hornady V-Max loads at about 1-1/2", and 55gr. reloads (over Varget, can't remember the charge) at MOA all the time. Great for plucking groundhogs off their mounds out to 225 yards. .223s have more reach than that, the lay of the land here simply doesn't allow for much longer shots.

Anyhow, they're very good guns if you ask me but the heft makes off-hand shots at any real distance kind of tough. I added a Battlecomp 1.0 to mine to help settle the muzzle down jump and indeed, it did...but the percussive "thump" in added to the experience wasn't too pleasant. Hearing protection req. for you, and everyone near you. For plinking, I had the XCR, 10 round pistol mags, and I met guys running Beowulf mags for even higher capacity.

Here is a photo of the rifle with a dead groundhog, and one from it's first outing (pre-Battlecomp).

Last thought~for a rifle you can pop a scope on, a bipod, shoot prone and expect good accuracy~I'd say go for the XCR. If you want a low magnification optic on a rifle you can shoot offhand with (ie, running coyote) then get a Tavor. I changed my XCR into a Cooper .204 R bolt action, my buddy turned his into a Tavor and loves it.

Hope this helps, feel free to message me if there is anything else I can help with.

[Ruger1022]

I have a Type 97 .223 and love it.
You can buy one for $800 used or $1000 new.
It's a savings of at least a minimum of $1500 from the rifles you are looking at.

[plmnnkoqaz]

Not trying to knock the T-97, but he OP is looking for ~1MOA. Not likely possible with either the t-97 or the Tavor. Both are cool and I yearn for a bull pup, but they aren't that accurate. ACR and XCR are really the only choices for semi auto accuracy (except maybe the Benelli MR1) that meet the OP's criteria unless we right enough letters and get AR's non restricted.

[Ruger1022]

Originally Posted by plmnnkoqaz

Not trying to knock the T-97, but he OP is looking for ~1MOA. Not likely possible with either the t-97 or the Tavor. Both are cool and I yearn for a bull pup, but they aren't that accurate. ACR and XCR are really the only choices for semi auto accuracy (except maybe the Benelli MR1) that meet the OP's criteria unless we right enough letters and get AR's non restricted.

No problem,
I am always thinking of the dollar value.
MOA of 2-3 is good enough for me with target shooter fun guns.
so for the price of an ACR,XCR,or a Tavor you can get,
A Type 97 and 6000 rounds..
OP, if your interested Shoot me a PM..
Although if I were to sell I'd probably buy an XCR..lol

[calvin5673]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

A friend and I both had XCR-L rifles (new, in .223) and both ended-up selling them about a year later. NOT because of accuracy reasons, reliability reasons, but because of weight. I hunted with mine all last summer and loved shooting it, just couldn't get cozy with lugging around that much heft for 5-6 kms in the sweltering, Ontario summer heat/humidity. Ran like a top though. It shot 55gr. Hornady V-Max loads at about 1-1/2", and 55gr. reloads (over Varget, can't remember the charge) at MOA all the time. Great for plucking groundhogs off their mounds out to 225 yards. .223s have more reach than that, the lay of the land here simply doesn't allow for much longer shots.

Anyhow, they're very good guns if you ask me but the heft makes off-hand shots at any real distance kind of tough. I added a Battlecomp 1.0 to mine to help settle the muzzle down jump and indeed, it did...but the percussive "thump" in added to the experience wasn't too pleasant. Hearing protection req. for you, and everyone near you. For plinking, I had the XCR, 10 round pistol mags, and I met guys running Beowulf mags for even higher capacity.

Here is a photo of the rifle with a dead groundhog, and one from it's first outing (pre-Battlecomp).

Last thought~for a rifle you can pop a scope on, a bipod, shoot prone and expect good accuracy~I'd say go for the XCR. If you want a low magnification optic on a rifle you can shoot offhand with (ie, running coyote) then get a Tavor. I changed my XCR into a Cooper .204 R bolt action, my buddy turned his into a Tavor and loves it.

Hope this helps, feel free to message me if there is anything else I can help with.

Thanks! Rifle looks good, similar to what I would want on it. Guess I'm going to have to find one in my travels and get a feel for it.

[plmnnkoqaz]

Wolverine is bringing in the new version of the Xcr that does away with the 3 front rails in favour of a key mod system and there is also a light profile barrel available. It will never be as light as a DI AR, but bit should shave some weight off the front and make it balance better.

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by plmnnkoqaz

Wolverine is bringing in the new version of the Xcr that does away with the 3 front rails in favour of a key mod system and there is also a light profile barrel available. It will never be as light as a DI AR, but bit should shave some weight off the front and make it balance better.

So when is the new XCR supposed to be here? Maybe I bought a couple months too soon. I really like XCR but if AR's were non restricted I would sell the XCR in a heartbeat.

[plmnnkoqaz]

Wolverine just posted on another forum that they recieved lightweight barreled key mod rifles in black, FDE and OD green. They just arrived today, not even on the website yet.
Guess my resale value just took a hit.

[calvin5673]

Them new XCRs look pretty good, and a pound lighter to boot. My decision might be starting to be swayed towards them. Gotta find one now to get a feel for it. Thanks for all the help. If anyone has held one the new ones, throw me a message!

[calcutta_02]

Ever considered an mr1? There a little cheaper and do all of the above (so far). Accuracy is not as good as the xcr or acr but that's just with surplus ammo and it's brand new. Something to consider

[Smokinyotes]

I was thinking about buying an MR1 before I bought the XCR. I'm left handed and I heard the mr1 will throw brass in your face if you are left handed. The MR1 is also more difficult to clean than the XCR.

[braveheart_77]

I had the xcr-l and found it was too front heavy unless on a tripod. Though it was really accurate. Sold that and I picked up a tavor and love it! If u don't like the trigger because it's a bit heavy you can pick up aftermarket triggers now at around 3lb but I have not tried

[jeffisrad]

Tavor is the perfect weight distribution. Accuracy wise, I am sure you could get within your 3" at 300 yards with proper sight. I will never sell my Tavor. Super fun gun and non-restricted (for now).

[wally338]

The xcr is a 3-4 MOA rifle on a really good day.

[YoteStopper]

Originally Posted by wally338

The xcr is a 3-4 MOA rifle on a really good day.

It was never intended as a precision rifle, it was designed to be a user maintainable autoloading rifle with a simple and reliable piston driven design. I have one and while it hasn't yet been put to the paper test it has been a extremely reliable gun and is definitely my favorite semi auto. Its only downsides are weight and cost in my opinion, and a 16 inch medium profile barrel would be nice but other than that I am very happy.

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by jeffisrad

Tavor is the perfect weight distribution. Accuracy wise, I am sure you could get within your 3" at 300 yards with proper sight. I will never sell my Tavor. Super fun gun and non-restricted (for now).

perfect weight distribution for what? Ever sat it down on a bench or bag or prone?? 3" at 300 yards? keep dreaming
Tavor would be the perfect standing off hand gun, truck gun or tight quarters. Have you ever shot yours to 300 yards ??? post some picts as I'm curious what the professionals use.
Not to sound harsh, the Tavor, like most bullpups, are far from precision rigs.CQB only, Even more so than the XCR or ACR, Ar, Garand, M1 etc.
But if you can hit a Coyote at 300yards, i won't call bs, I'm not bias

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by wally338

The xcr is a 3-4 MOA rifle on a really good day.

Yet to see an AR do "The challenge " on here or CGN. Working on the XCR-M 308, will do 1.5 Moa all day long with the right loads. With cheap factory ammo… nope 2-5 moa. With custom ammo, very possible, My 223 still might do it again after 20,000 rnds. Haven't checked it yet….. Gophers still go pop at all ranges though.

[Smokinyotes]

I bought the XCR for a fun coyote gun, well never shot any with it last winter because I always took my 22-250 T3 why? Because the 22-250 shoots and the XCR doesn't. I wouldn't think of shooting a coyote at 300 with the XCR. Well I guess if you pulled the trigger fast enough with a pistol mag maybe 1 out of the 10 might hit it. The novelty wore off the first time I shot groups at 200 yards and they were 3+ MOA.

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

What the 'ell kind of ground rat is that? its Hugh….

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

I bought the XCR for a fun coyote gun, well never shot any with it last winter because I always took my 22-250 T3 why? Because the 22-250 shoots and the XCR doesn't. I wouldn't think of shooting a coyote at 300 with the XCR. Well I guess if you pulled the trigger fast enough with a pistol mag maybe 1 out of the 10 might hit it. The novelty wore off the first time I shot groups at 200 yards and they were 3+ MOA.

So you shot it once with?????ammo and it was no good? I get it now

[calvin5673]

I was into West Ed mall at the range hoping to get a feel for the XCR and I did find the lighter much nicer than the heavy barreled version. But I also held the tavor, and it felt right good too.
Kinda sounds like a lot of people are getting 2ish MOA out of their XCR's, when using ammo capable of it. A little worse than I'd hoped but I certainly dont mind spending more time at the range with handloads finding that perfect load, try get it to 1-1.5moa. I guess I might just have to accept that I won't be getting pinpoint accuracy and if I know I'm getting into longer ranges (out beyond 200 perhaps) I've got my Savage Model 10 in .223, and its definitely a half moa (When I can do my part), maybe better, and can easily go the distance.

The more input the better though, at the price they're at I'm certainly going to take my time and make my decision carefully.

[colroggal]

The politics behind restricting one particular firearm over another gets my head shaking. If I was a betting man - which I'm not - I would say the acr will go first followed by the xcr. Because of the Israeli connection I'd say the tavor line is safe as are the benellis because of the non-scary semi-pistol grip offerings. No one mentioned it but the mini-14 is probably also safe because far too many rural voters already own one.

Personally I would go for the mr1 or a new mini-14 despite the mini's lack of stanag compatability. But as someone mentioned on another thread, you can buy an awful lot of mags for the money you save on a mini - that and I like the wood.

Neither will shoot moa but both are fully capable of a 5" boiler maker shot on a yote at 250 yards if you roll for the gun or buy premium ammo.

just my 2 cents - rounded down to nil these days.

Colin.