338-06, or 338-06 AI

[leo]

I seem to have aquired a taste for the fit and finish of Cooper Rifles. I have a couple an will be getting another by spring, road trip to Lloydminster. I m thinking along the lines of 338-06 or an Ackley Improved version. For those of you that have a 338-06 or 338-06AI, how do you like them, if you have owned both does the AI case give it any significant advantage or not really. Thanks,

[double gun]

I have had the 338-06 and I loved it. I would not consider going to the AI version. Look at the dimensions of the two, you arent going to gain near enough to bother with the more expensive dies, and dicking around forming cases. The standard 338-06 dies are in most shops, tons of published loading data, and running 3006 cases thru your dies leaves you with perfect ready to go cases. For me its a no brainer, but I also respect those who do the AI thing to have something different.

[PoppaW]

Originally Posted by double gun

I have had the 338-06 and I loved it. I would not consider going to the AI version. Look at the dimensions of the two, you arent going to gain near enough to bother with the more expensive dies, and dicking around forming cases. The standard 338-06 dies are in most shops, tons of published loading data, and running 3006 cases thru your dies leaves you with perfect ready to go cases. For me its a no brainer, but I also respect those who do the AI thing to have something different.

^^^^^^x2
I see no benifit for the AI velocity wise but if it blows yer hair back then do it. I like the plain old 338-06 just the way it is. Brass is very easy to size from '06

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

I built the Ackley Improved version.....mostly to be different and after talking to the gunsmith- he had a few personally.

Built mine off a Sako m75 Greywolf rifle with new barrel. I use Norma and Weatherby (Norma makes the Weatherby brass anyhow) headstamped 338-06 brass. I fireformed my brass with medium-hot loads during barrel break in. Built the rifle to shoot 225gr bullets-it loves the Accubonds and TTSX's.

Nothing wrong with the 338-06AS thats for sure. There is also the 338-06 Scovill.

If Cooper has a factory rifle, the -06AS model is what I would stick to. You might even find Weatherby ammo in 338-06.

BTW...did I say I LOVE THIS RIFLE of MINE !!

[7 REM MAG]

you might get an extra 100-150 fps out of the ackley, however they are cool, as for the dies i wouldnt be worried about that, i use a lee collet 270 win set for my 270ai and it works great, so long as you only neck size you should be able to use most standard calibre sets for your ai

[leo]

Thanks for the input, I have A few months to stew over the chambering and which Cooper I want.

[7 REM MAG]

i talked to the smith that did my 270 and from his experience he urged my friend that is contemplating building a 338-06 on a rugger no.1 action to go the ackley route. supposed to get higher velocity gains, something about larger surface area of the base i think. the ai cartridges in themselves are also known to get more firings per piece of brass and are also known to need less trimming after firing, combine that with the zero run out of the lee collet dies and you will most likely not need to trim your cases for the life of the case. im on my 6th firing of some of my 270ai brass and have yet to trim my brass or notice any lengthening of the necks

[double gun]

I read that the case capacity of the standard 338-06 is 68.4gr, and the AI version is 70.3gr. So if you use Ackleys own expected increase formula (10% case capacity increase should yield 2.5% of velocity increase) you would gain less than 1% in velocity or roughly 20fps on the average 338-06 load.

[Traps]

Get a 338 federal, ammo is easy to find in major centres. 338 -06 is not and resale would be better.

[leo]

Originally Posted by Traps

Get a 338 federal, ammo is easy to find in major centres. 338 -06 is not and resale would be better.

I'm not worried about finding ammo, I reload my own, and I probably won't sell it, but good points to keep in mind Traps.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Traps

Get a 338 federal, ammo is easy to find in major centres. 338 -06 is not and resale would be better.

338federal might be easier to find ammo for.....right now, but it's certainly not popular and is fading. I completely disagree about resale, nobody wants the federal, but 338-06 rifles, both factory and custom seem to sell fast.

[tony d]

I have a cooper Jackson Game in 338-06 I Love it I also looked at the AI and decided it wasn't enough gain to worry about it is probably the most accurate rifle I own I've been shooting 185 ttsx at just over 3000 what's not to like Cheers Tony

[leo]

Originally Posted by tony d

I have a cooper Jackson Game in 338-06 I Love it I also looked at the AI and decided it wasn't enough gain to worry about it is probably the most accurate rifle I own I've been shooting 185 ttsx at just over 3000 what's not to like Cheers Tony

That's an impressive load. PM your data please. Thanks

[dero338]

I wouldlike to understand what would be the reason to go for a 330-06AI?
if it is for the extra speed, since it is already a long action, would'nt it be more simple to go for a 338wm?

[leo]

Originally Posted by dero338

I wouldlike to understand what would be the reason to go for a 330-06AI?
if it is for the extra speed, since it is already a long action, would'nt it be more simple to go for a 338wm?

I can't speak for others, but in my case it's like asking your neighbor why he drives a Ford.. lol . I have owned 2, 338 Win Mags, I just sold the last one to an AO member and friend. Over the course of 30+ years of shooting, I have owned most standard chamberings, I wanted something out of the ordinary, I satisfied my first whim by aquiring a 280AI which I have been meaning to get for a couple years now. A 338-06 has been on my bucket list of firearms since I read articles by Chub Eastman and Gary Sitton. I haven't decided on an AI version or not. As in anything ballistically related, the efficency of the loaded cartridge will vary from one firearm to the next. A custom job chambered AI may give 100-150 FPS faster than an un improved case, or it may not give much more at all. there is always that wildcard thrown at us.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by leo

I can't speak for others, but in my case it's like asking your neighbor why he drives a Ford.. lol . I have owned 2, 338 Win Mags, I just sold the last one to an AO member and friend. Over the course of 30+ years of shooting, I have owned most standard chamberings, I wanted something out of the ordinary, I satisfied my first whim by aquiring a 280AI which I have been meaning to get for a couple years now. A 338-06 has been on my bucket list of firearms since I read articles by Chub Eastman and Gary Sitton. I haven't decided on an AI version or not. As in anything ballistically related, the efficency of the loaded cartridge will vary from one firearm to the next. A custom job chambered AI may give 100-150 FPS faster than an un improved case, or it may not give much more at all. there is always that wildcard thrown at us.

I am not familiar with the ballistics of the 338-06 but if going the "Improved" route gets you over the 3000+ fps threshold as opposed to being under 3000fps with the bullet you plan on shooting go for the "Improved" version. If the regular 338-06 gets you over that threshold....it may not be worth it......just my opinion.

LC

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Originally Posted by Traps

Get a 338 federal, ammo is easy to find in major centres. 338 -06 is not and resale would be better.

I would say anyone that has a 338-06 reloads and I beg to differ on the resale. Lots of people out there like the 338-06

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Originally Posted by dero338

I wouldlike to understand what would be the reason to go for a 330-06AI?
if it is for the extra speed, since it is already a long action, would'nt it be more simple to go for a 338wm?

Same bullets with less powder . Only about 200ft/s less in velocity. For most, I would say go with the 338-06, I went AI to be different than everyone else, nothing more really.

[PoppaW]

Originally Posted by double gun

I read that the case capacity of the standard 338-06 is 68.4gr, and the AI version is 70.3gr. So if you use Ackleys own expected increase formula (10% case capacity increase should yield 2.5% of velocity increase) you would gain less than 1% in velocity or roughly 20fps on the average 338-06 load.

This is why i didnt bother with any AI's. loaded to the same pressure they are so close as not no matter. Brass life is supposed to be better with sharper shoulders. '06 range brass is plentifull and free too.

[303carbine]

I would just go with a nice Remington 700 in 35 Whelen and have a better cartridge with haggling about the need to "improve" it.

[leo]

Originally Posted by 303carbine

I would just go with a nice Remington 700 in 35 Whelen and have a better cartridge with haggling about the need to "improve" it.

I threatened to buy one of them for years, but my mind is made up. Cooper 338-06 it will be. Weight for weight it should penetrate better than a 35 caliber at the same velocity.
For them that question my sanity, I have had and shot magnum chambering all my adult life, now I'm going for efficiency and light recoil. If I need more womph, I've got a 300 Weatherby mag in a 50 year old Browning rifle that will take care of business.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by 303carbine

I would just go with a nice Remington 700 in 35 Whelen and have a better cartridge with haggling about the need to "improve" it.

The 35 whelen better....?

[Fuzzy39]

I know.... Real old form but to make 338-06 AI can you just not run the brass through the AI dies and not fireform???

[Bergerboy]

Always go with the AI....because its cool. Kind of like having an amplifier go to 11 instead of 10.

Its like explained on Spinal Tap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

[dogslayer403]

I have a custom in 338-06 and it performs well beyond what i expected i can not see an AI version yielding enough gains to justify it build the standard A-square you wont be dissapointed mine really shines with 200g and 225g accubonds and varget

[Salavee]

I have a couple of 338-06's and consider them better than the 35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 as an all-round cartridge. I get very close to 2700 fps with a 225 Accubond and I don't see the AI version as worth the effort for a wee bit xtra. You will love the .338-06. Good choice !

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I have a couple of 338-06's and consider them better than the 35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 as an all-round cartridge. I get very close to 2700 fps with a 225 Accubond and I don't see the AI version as worth the effort for a wee bit xtra. You will love the .338-06. Good choice !

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm also considering building one of these right now. I'm stuck between the 338-06, 35 whelen and then trying to question what it's going to give me my 30-06 and 338 win mag don't.

You claim near 2700 fps from a 225 accubond, is this with a 22" barrel perhaps? The 35 whelen load data does 2800+ with a 225 accubond and I personally get 2730-2750 fps from a 200 grain accubond out of my 30-06. I have a hard time wrapping my head around what the 338-06 is going to give me that my 30-06 isn't or that the 35 whelen wouldn't do better. In my world there are no flies on the 30-06 but if one wanted to be different, on paper the 35 whelen walks all over the 338-06.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm also considering building one of these right now. I'm stuck between the 338-06, 35 whelen and then trying to question what it's going to give me my 30-06 and 338 win mag don't.

You claim near 2700 fps from a 225 accubond, is this with a 22" barrel perhaps? The 35 whelen load data does 2800+ with a 225 accubond and I personally get 2730-2750 fps from a 200 grain accubond out of my 30-06. I have a hard time wrapping my head around what the 338-06 is going to give me that my 30-06 isn't or that the 35 whelen wouldn't do better. In my world there are no flies on the 30-06 but if one wanted to be different, on paper the 35 whelen walks all over the 338-06.

It would be difficult to take it wrong as I have all four of those cartridges and consider them all great. I indicated that I found the .338-06 more versatile considering the range of available bullet weights... similar to the superb 30-06. Each of these cartridges has merit. I'm big on large for caliber bullets, SD and momentum and they all can carry the freight... some a bit more than others. Just like the 9.3x62 walks on the .35 Whelen
My .338-06 has a 25 in barrel.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac

Same bullets with less powder . Only about 200ft/s less in velocity. For most, I would say go with the 338-06, I went AI to be different than everyone else, nothing more really.

And that is why people enjoy wildcats and reloading, why carry something everyone has etc, it is ok to be different.

[Pioneer2]

I heard IMR 4320 is one of the best powders with this caliber.The AI thing comes and goes but harder to sell after the honeymoon fades...I have some virgin Norma primed 30-06 brass in the guns and ammo section that will last longer than range pickup......Harold