annealing and neck tension??

[stvnbrg]

as always, if this thread already exists i apologize, i didn't see anything like this in the search.
Anyways, I'm in the process of loading up a batch, and i notice the press is unusually easy to work while seating the bullet. As in-I let go of the handle and the weight of it finishes the stroke for me. measuring the inside diameter and I'm getting about 2-2.5 thou of tension which is fine. I do anneal, and I am not overheating my brass. I am also using a collet die. The only thing i can think of is that annealing is unnecessary and quite possibly counter productive if using a collet die due to the fact that the brass isn't working enough to re-harden the softened brass??? Can anyone shed light on the issue? Should I stop annealing altogether? start anneal every 2nd loading? or is this totally an unrelated issue? Any input would be appreciated.

[Dick284]

I find my seating way easier/lighter after using collet dies. It doesn't seem to effect accuracy one bit, actually making things better in many cases.

I've written if off to the dies, and have accepted the results.

How do your loads shoot in the given situation?

[260 Rem]

I can't say I know what is going on with your brass, but will offer some "speculation" based on my own experience.
First, necks will work harden regardless of using a collet sizer (perhaps a bit slower than with the traditional sizer) because under pressure, the neck expands enough to seal the chamber. For example, if your SAAMI 308 Win neck chamber diameter is .345, and your loaded round is .338 at the neck ...it will expand that much. Using a collet sizer will reduce how much it is undersized, so will help a bit on that end. No idea if that makes much of a difference?
Second, unless using a proper gauge to measure the inside neck diameter after sizing, it is doubtful a standard blade caliper will yeild an accurate reading. Can someone help me with the name of the gauge (seniors moment).
Third, for most recreational shooting where one is not striving for consistent sub-1/2 MOA, it is doubtful that annealing any more frequently than on every 6-8 reloads will produce a noticeable difference in accuracy (fewer reloads with hot loads and magnums).
I can only speak to what I do (which generally produces decent groups).
I use a traditional type resizer die (with a bushing to reduce the amount of under sizing and with the expander button removed). This allows me to develop a "feel" for the resistance as the neck exits the bushing. My "tension" goal is .002 difference in outside neck diameter between the resized neck and the seated bullet. For most brass, I now anneal about every 5-6 reloads.

[gitrdun]

I too use collet dies for 3 calibers and anneal all of them that I load for. Annealing whether using FL dies, neck dies or collet dies is primarily directed at the neck, shoulder and slightly below the shoulder junction. Annealing reduces the elasticity so to speak so that when working the neck diameter, it doesn't bounce back. If you are achieving 2 to 2.5 thou neck tension, that is perfect. I believe that the softer seating is simply caused because the annealed neck doesn't offer resistance as un-annealed would. Should you wish for a tighter neck, Lee offers under sized mandrels that are caliber specific. At the end of the day, if you achieve 2 thou neck tension, I wouldn't worry about a thing. The question though is whether annealing after each firing is over kill. Perhaps every 2 or even 3 firing might suffice. I don't have the answer to that one yet.

@260rem - To get an accurate inside diameter of my necks, I first measure the OD with a micrometer. Then I use my Forster Case & Cartridge Inspector to measure wall thickness. Subtract 2x wall thickness from OD = ID. A simpler way is to measure OD before and after seating.

[Jordan Smith]

I agree with the other posters, and would suggest that for a shooter looking for 1 MOA or better, annealing only often enough to prevent case neck cracking is sufficient. I've found that to be about every 4 firings on average, depending on the brass.

[catnthehat]

Bottom line for me is what happens on the target.
If I am getting good results, whether I am using a collet , bushing, or standard FL die, annealing or not, it's all immaterial unless I am getting inconstant results.
Most guys anneal not to increase accuracy but to increase case life.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Bottom line for me is what happens on the target.
If I am getting good results, whether I am using a collet , bushing, or standard FL die, annealing or not, it's all immaterial unless I am getting inconstant results.
Most guys anneal not to increase accuracy but to increase case life.
Cat

I anneal to prolong case life, as it takes time and effort to form some of the cases that I use, so I want them to last as long as possible. Of course consistent accuracy is a nice side benefit.

[stvnbrg]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I anneal to prolong case life, as it takes time and effort to form some of the cases that I use, so I want them to last as long as possible. Of course consistent accuracy is a nice side benefit.

Thats the thing for me. Consistency. If annealing alters the neck tension then my instincts say to either anneal every time or not at all

[260 Rem]

Yes gitrdone, I also just compare the OD before and after seating ... but there is tool ...expensive little bugger...that acurately measures bore diameters. Measuring ID can't be done accurately using a square jawed caliper blade (I don't think).

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Yes gitrdone, I also just compare the OD before and after seating ... but there is tool ...expensive little bugger...that acurately measures bore diameters. Measuring ID can't be done accurately using a square jawed caliper blade (I don't think).

I know what your talking about but I use a ball Mic to measure wall thickness and a regular Mic to measure across the neck. Simple mathematics gets you what your after from that.