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Old 08-27-2019, 04:10 PM
trapperdodge trapperdodge is offline
 
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Default Ontario First nations woman awarded trap line based on ancestral rights

Read a post on Thunderbay news watch today that the Ministry awarded a trapline to a helper(15yrs) and then took it away when a FN woman objected on ancestral basis.
Someone might look it up and post the article.
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:35 PM
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It sounds like the same agreement here in AB with Treaty 8.


First Nation woman wins trapline licence because of ancestral connection
A Nipigon-area man who worked the same trapline for 15 years initially received the licence.


THUNDER BAY — A reversal by the Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry has left a long-time trapper in the Nipigon area without a licence for the trapline he helped to manage for 15 years.

Instead, the licence was awarded to a woman from the Red Rock Indian Band under a provincial policy that gives the right of first refusal to a First Nation member with a family connection to a trapline.

Band officials say the decision reflects historical practices and the importance of reconciliation.

However, it has alarmed a trappers organization which says the government's decision to reallocate a trapline that has been properly managed means trappers must now worry their traplines can be taken away at any time.

David Stenlund was registered as a "helper trapper" with the licensee of trapline NG-013 for 15 years, then pursued the licence himself after the former head trapper designated him as his recommended successor, in writing, prior to his death in February 2017.

When MNRF notified nearby Indigenous communities that NG-013 had become vacant, it received an application from Holly Sitch who said she had evidence of her family connection to the trapline.

The evidence included a provincial enumeration printout from 1871 and an 1836 journal that showed Sitch's great-great-grandfather was a trapper in the Nipigon area.

She also produced census documents listing her grandfather as a trapper up to 1919, and his obituary in 1940 which referred to him as an active trapper.

Sitch said her father trapped as well, and that she is currently a registered helper trapper on the trapline adjacent to NG-013.


But the woman could not prove her ancestors trapped in the exact location of NG-013, leading local ministry officials initially to award the trapline licence to Stenlund.

The Red Rock Indian Band subsequently notified MNRF it was invoking the dispute resolution process established under the province's Trapping Harmonization Agreement with the Union of Ontario Indians.

Notes from the band's meeting with MNRF recorded a comment that the band was prepared to protest, including using legal means and civil disobedience, unless the licence decision was reversed.

Ministry reversed its decision, saying it had made a mistake

A few months later, in January 2018, the ministry advised Stenlund his licence would not be renewed, and would be allocated to Sitch upon its expiry in August 2018.

Ministry officials said their local office had made a mistake when they interpreted ministry policy as requiring an Indigenous applicant to prove her ancestors had trapped on a specific trapline rather than in the local area.

Stenlund, a fourth-generation trapper, applied in a Thunder Bay court in June of this year, by way of judicial review, for an order quashing MNRF's decision.

In a decision released this month Justice F.L. Myers dismissed the application while acknowledging Stenlund's frustration with the government.

"I readily empathize with the upset and sense of unfairness felt by Mr. Stenlund. But, in my view, while perhaps ham-fisted, the Minister's decision to decline to renew or re-issue a licence to Mr. Stenlund fell within the range of discretionary decisions available to the Minister under the law," the judge said.

Stenlund's lawyer, Alex Little, argued there is an important distinction between government practices with regard to "allocating" a trapline to a head trapper versus the regulations governing the annual licensing of the trapline.


"The allocation is everything, and the licence is just kind of a year-to-year rubber-stamping," Little said in an interview with Tbnewswatch.

She said it was disappointing to see the court decision reduce trapline allocations to "just a decision by the Minister to grant a licence" and give little weight to Ontario's actual practice and policies pertaining to trapline allocation.

Katie Ball, president of the Northwestern Ontario Fur Trappers Association, worries that "despite being allocated traplines and the status of a head trapper...the MNRF can now treat that no different than a fishing licence you purchase at a corner store. Therefore it's only good for one year."

Ball said trappers invest a great deal of time and money building and maintaining the trapline infrastructure, and learning how to best manage the line to meet government quotas while preserving local animal populations.

"If we know we might possibly lose our trapline that year or next year, why would we want to spend all that time and effort doing that?" she asked.

Red Rock Indian Band says Crown is living up to its obligations

Red Rock Indian Band Chief Matt Dupuis said members of his community and its trappers' council are pleased with the outcome, saying it shows "the Crown is living up to its obligations."

The band's communications officer and former lands and resources consultation coordinator, Alyssa Ray, said she hopes the case will educate people including ministry staff about the significance of traditional trapping.

"It's important to recognize that the First Nations here been utilizing furbearing animals long before the 1940s when the registered trapline system came into play," Ray said.

The system impacted First Nations people because it divided the land into pieces, she said, but now processes are in place—such as the right of first refusal when trapline vacancies are declared—so "things are being made right."

Ray pointed to an MNRF written statement, referenced in court, that its decision to reallocate Stenlund's licence was also made "in the spirit of reconciliation with indigenous people."

"For First Nations to have a fair process that they can go through...that's huge, because we haven't always had that," she said.

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-ne...ection-1659279
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Old 08-27-2019, 08:15 PM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
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This is just a start of what is to come and not only in regards to trapping.

Whether you like him or not....when Donald Trump sees a Treaty that is not what a treaty is all about (for the benefit of BOTH parties) he has the kahoonas to tear it up, sit people down and do it up right.

I fear that we do not have any politicians willing to sacrifice their pensions or even say squat, regarding this matter ....Well, maybe with the exception of Bernier.....he calls a spade a spade..
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Old 08-27-2019, 08:23 PM
German German is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough doug View Post
This is just a start of what is to come and not only in regards to trapping.



Whether you like him or not....when Donald Trump sees a Treaty that is not what a treaty is all about (for the benefit of BOTH parties) he has the kahoonas to tear it up, sit people down and do it up right.



I fear that we do not have any politicians willing to sacrifice their pensions or even say squat, regarding this matter ....Well, maybe with the exception of Bernier.....he calls a spade a spade..


The pendulum is beginning to swing the other way on Canadians and we are just standing there watching it. Reconciliation = giving it all away.
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Old 08-27-2019, 09:30 PM
outofbounds outofbounds is offline
 
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https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...aM2je9zByrznO6

Nothing new.

Head Trapper Allocation Policy WilPr .1.1.7 issued August 27, 2010

This has been a policy which was agreed upon by trappers councils, federations, government and FN parties for years.

Problem was the Government didnt follow their own policies and each district office had its own interpretation.

This time was challenged by FN trapper and proven that district office hadn't followed policy as to why the overturn.

Many lines allocated without following proper policies.

Old boys club regardless of FN ties or not.
Little different in Ontario those who choose to have traplines for hunt camps still accountable for mandatory 75% Beaver quotas.
Mandatory harvest reports that are cross referenced with shipping records.
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Old 08-27-2019, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German View Post
The pendulum is beginning to swing the other way on Canadians and we are just standing there watching it. Reconciliation = giving it all away.
Couldn’t agree more.

Twenty years down the road is going to be very interesting, if we make it that long...
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Old 08-28-2019, 08:45 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Thanks for posting it Dave

Yes, the registered trapper is screwed in this current political landscape. And it sounds like Scheer isn't going to pull off the win needed to begin returning this country back to normal.

Just can't wait for the $0.66 a litre green tax and more reconciliation.
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Old 08-28-2019, 08:50 AM
trapperdodge trapperdodge is offline
 
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How long before a FN claim on a long held line is challenged? What will the court rule?
I think we know pretty well what the outcome might be.
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:26 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Default Treaty

I would never use the Trumper as good example of getting a treaty right. He signed the NAFTA 2.0 with Canada & Mexico then few months later told Mexico he would put tariffs on their goods if they did not stop refugies from crossing the Rio Grande into US. The ink was not even dry on that fancy signature before he broke his word, that signature is not worth the paper it is written on!
" He speaks with forked tong"
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:15 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Default trapline

However if I had a trapline north of Athabasca river in treaty 8 area I would not put alot of investment in trails, bridges and cabins, your son or trapline partner
wanting to take it over in the future will probably loose it to some treaty opportunist.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:18 AM
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What I find scary is the fact the the Govt changed its tune when the natives threatened "civil disobedience " ... What the heck is up with that ?? Let a white guy threaten that and see how fast charges are laid against him .
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Old 09-01-2019, 06:36 PM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
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Regarding what has been "said" about Treaty 8, the situation is such ...that if a line becomes - VACANT - the FN will have dibbs on acquiring it....so don't start rumours that may not be substantiated..Has nothing to do with resale of any lines.. Presently, I know of many FN lines that are not being "harvested"..
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough doug View Post
Regarding what has been "said" about Treaty 8, the situation is such ...that if a line becomes - VACANT - the FN will have dibbs on acquiring it....so don't start rumours that may not be substantiated..Has nothing to do with resale of any lines.. Presently, I know of many FN lines that are not being "harvested"..
What's frustrating, is there's not much done to fulfill vacancy. I called my local bio to claim a line that's been vacant for 2 yrs, and I couldn't cause it's "reserve" to first nation. Through the conversation I learned that he's aware of over a dozen unused line and they're not doing anything to find a taker. As of right now, there's nothing in the agreement stating if the line can go to a non first nation after "x" amount of time, so a lot of line might end up never being used again. What a waste!!

The ATA, should discuss with the conservative to fix this issue. There's hundreds of trapper like me wishing to get a line, and there's several vacant line. They could give priority to first nation for a year, and if not claimed, have a draw to re-allocate the line to someone.
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Old 09-02-2019, 12:25 PM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
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Originally Posted by st99 View Post
What's frustrating, is there's not much done to fulfill vacancy. I called my local bio to claim a line that's been vacant for 2 yrs, and I couldn't cause it's "reserve" to first nation. Through the conversation I learned that he's aware of over a dozen unused line and they're not doing anything to find a taker. As of right now, there's nothing in the agreement stating if the line can go to a non first nation after "x" amount of time, so a lot of line might end up never being used again. What a waste!!

The ATA, should discuss with the conservative to fix this issue. There's hundreds of trapper like me wishing to get a line, and there's several vacant line. They could give priority to first nation for a year, and if not claimed, have a draw to re-allocate the line to someone.
How right you are ,in all cases....However, these BIOLOGISTS,(green peace) have a different agenda from what the F&W - HAD
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
What I find scary is the fact the the Govt changed its tune when the natives threatened "civil disobedience " ... What the heck is up with that ??
Come on man that can't be true .
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