Leveling scope reticles

[Percher]

If your using levels be sure your rifle is level when it's secured in your vise.
Double check that it is level from the back base to the front base and no sideways canting. Then you can use a level on top of the turret turning the scope to level your reticle. Other wise it's time for a beer and a piece of wire.
A trick I use with a piccatinny rail on a rifle is place a six inch straight piece of 1/8ths inch stiff wire in one of the cross groves and secure it with a rubber band around the ends and under the stock snugged up against the sides. Place the butt end of the stock on the floor and with the muzzle against your cheek tilt the muzzle up so the wire and reticle come together, turn the scope to align them, then tighten the rings. Should work with bases that protrude past the rings.

[DaleJ]

Or you can level your horizontal on the "waterline" of a target. Square to the shooter is better than square to the rifle.

[Prdtrgttr]

Have u tried the new Segway reticle leveler?

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

Or you can level your horizontal on the "waterline" of a target. Square to the shooter is better than square to the rifle.

The cross hairs should be square to the rifle not square to the shooter. If not, your scope will not track properly, shots at different distances will be left or right of the center line and adjusting the scope for sight in will be a pain.

I have found that many right handed shooters will have their cross hairs 5 or 10 degrees to the left and vice versa for lefties if they install their own scope. It is from squeezing the rifle too much in anticipation of the recoil. Relaxing the grip makes for more accurate shooting and straightens the cross hairs right up.

[DaleJ]

If rifle is shot offhand square to the shooter is best. If its an F-class or BR rifle square to the rifle is needed.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

If rifle is shot offhand square to the shooter is best. If its an F-class or BR rifle square to the rifle is needed.

Isn't canting the rifle bad form on part of the shooter? If so, I'd fix that over compensating for it.

Edit:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/optic...int-of-impact/

[harv3589]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

If rifle is shot offhand square to the shooter is best. If its an F-class or BR rifle square to the rifle is needed.

If you square the cross hairs to the shooter doesnt that cause as issue when u start to adjust for longer shots as ur bullet isnt going to track down your vertical cross hair but actually start to go off to whichever way you cant your scope?

I maybe wrong but seems to make sense...

I always try to square up the cross hairs to the rifle...

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by harv3589

If you square the cross hairs to the shooter doesnt that cause as issue when u start to adjust for longer shots as ur bullet isnt going to track down your vertical cross hair but actually start to go off to whichever way you cant your scope?

I maybe wrong but seems to make sense...

I always try to square up the cross hairs to the rifle...

This is exactly right. If one was to imagine shooting a rifle "gangsta" style or perfectly sideways you can visualize the exaggerated effect.

A rifle sighted in at first cross of sight (say 25-35 yards depending on calibre) would be 3-4 inches left or right depending on the lean at 100 yards and more as the distance is increased.

[harv3589]

So why would u ever level the cross hairs to the shooter?

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by harv3589

So why would u ever level the cross hairs to the shooter?

You wouldn't.

[harv3589]

Originally Posted by MK2750

You wouldn't.

No i wouldnt but others seem to think you should at times...just wondering their reasoning for this...

[MK2750]

I decided to throw a set of Opti-locks in the trash the other day and get a better set up for my 85. I thought I would let the knowledgeable staff install the bases/rings as I watched on.

He fiddled around for 20-30 minutes and finally passed me the rifle. I just smiled and thanked him.

When I got home, I have a raised bar in the kitchen that levels the 85 perfectly. I can check it without any doubt it is level. He was out at least 15 degrees.

When I sighted it in, it was right on the dot at a little over 25, right on the line 2.5 inches high at 100 and came right back in at 200.

I think people adjust for their hold without realizing the down range effect of accuracy. They squeeze the #$%^ out of the rifle and wonder why it shoots funny.

Squeezing also ruins any chance of being a consistant wing shooter but it is very hard to teach to shooters. It makes it impossible to swing smoothy. It also is the demise of many a golf swing.

[baptiste_moose]

Originally Posted by harv3589

No i wouldnt but others seem to think you should at times...just wondering their reasoning for this...

X2

Buy the wheeler level level level kit. One lever sits in your action with bolt out and the other sits on the elevation turret! I use it all the time. It's great!

[sourdough doug]

I take it then that this leveler will NOT work with a lever action?

[DaleJ]

Suppose you have an F-class rifle and the accesory rail that your bipod attaches to is not level. If you square the cross hairs to the rifle receiver you have cant with the scope. I like to level crosshairs in the field when actually shooting rifle as I intend on using it. There is no arguement crosshairs need to be square to the target, but they don't need to square to rifle receiver.

[baptiste_moose]

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

I take it then that this leveler will NOT work with a lever action?

Yes it will. Action open. It rests on the action bars bolted to the inside of the receiver!

[twofifty]

Some competitive metallic silhouette shooters level their scopes taking into account their hold is slightly canted when they take offhand shots.

These guys make four reticle adjustments during a match. So long as they hold the stock consistently canted, it works just fine for them.

[MK2750]

Bullets drop on a perfectly straight line every time. If your verticle post is not on this line your scope is mounted wrong.

If you were to shoot at different distances out until your POI is no longer visable in the scope, each bullet should be hitting on the verticle line. The only way to achieve this is when the scope is mounted perfectly straight level with the reciever and the reciever it square to the bore of the rifle.

This is why people have actions trued to the bore so the bolt face is exactly square. Mounting a scope canted on top of this would defeat the whole purpose.

Twofifty, I believe some shooters have stocks made to fit their tendencies and still leave the action perfectly level. The stock may not be level but the action is and so are the cross hairs.

[Percher]

Leveling cross hairs to the shooter will put you on a target at the distance your using to sight in, say 100 yards, you basically sighted your gun in for the amount of cant at that distance. Any shots out further than 100 yards will increase towards the direction the reticle is canted. Using a target with horizontal and vertical lines is great if the scope was leveled to the rifle in the first place. To check for reticle cant look through your scope from the muzzle end of your rifle, if the vertical crosshair isn't pointing straight down to the center of the hole in your barrel your gun is sighted to the shooter for the distance you used to sight in your scope.
I had a person at a store mount a scope for me, he basically shouldered the gun a few times, turned the scope to suit his preference and tightened the rings. That was a classic shooters preference installation. Not anywhere near being leveled to the rifle, when I got home I leveled it to the bases under the rings. Some fancy stocks on rifles these days are not square so don't try leveling the vertical cross hair to the shoulder end of the stock.
Long range shooters always level crosshairs to the rifle and that simply is level to the bases the rings are attached too.
It's interesting to see the different strokes for different folks. Whatever works for you is fine.

[nekred]

I have seen many shooters who shoot off hand cant their sillywet rifles and match the scope to their cant.

I like to use the archery context.... if a person cants their bow it causes left/right drift and as distnce increases so does the left right drift.... unless their sight is also canted the opposite way....to be level when bow is canted....

It is much better to teach people not to cant their bow by using a level in their sight that is made so that bow and sight are both level. Then you level the 3rd axis as well to allow for slope shooting and not having left/right drift.

There is always this debate... but the best answer for me....

Level the scope to the rifle and make sure the shooter holds the rifle level when shooting.

If shooter does not hold rifle level.... then adjusting scope to allow for the cant is kind of like making two wrongs = a right...

[harv3589]

Well just mounted my scope on a M70 30-06 and its level to the action...used the Segway Reticle Leveller and it seems to work good.

[DaleJ]

[QUOTE=MK2750;2144555]Bullets drop on a perfectly straight line every time. If your verticle post is not on this line your scope is mounted wrong.

If you were to shoot at different distances out until your POI is no longer visable in the scope, each bullet should be hitting on the verticle line. The only way to achieve this is when the scope is mounted perfectly straight level with the reciever and the reciever it square to the bore of the rifle.

This is why people have actions trued to the bore so the bolt face is exactly square. Mounting a scope canted on top of this would defeat the whole purpose.

Twofifty, I believe some shooters have stocks made to fit their tendencies and still leave the action perfectly level. The stock may not be level but the action is and so are the cross hairs.[/QUOTE

Um, you could orient your rifle at any stop through a 360 degree circle and you won't fool gravity, all my long range rifles have tapered bases to keep scope reticles near center at 1000 yds. I don't think you're wrong, I know you're wrong

[harv3589]

Dale,

I am not sure we are all on the same page...the point of making your scope level is to aid in shots that you have to hold over on...I understand that u can turn ur rifle 360 degrees and hit the zeroed spot but if I sight in for 200 yrds and take a 400 yrd shot, the hold over is now off and if i have a scope that cants thru the 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock spot that will put my hold over shot off to the right significantly since i am now moving my rifle up and to the right to keep the target on the vertical reticle...the long range reticles wouldn't work if your scope wasnt level

Am I out to lunch on my thinking??

[MK2750]

[IMG][/IMG]

[DaleJ]

Originally Posted by harv3589

Dale,

I am not sure we are all on the same page...the point of making your scope level is to aid in shots that you have to hold over on...I understand that u can turn ur rifle 360 degrees and hit the zeroed spot but if I sight in for 200 yrds and take a 400 yrd shot, the hold over is now off and if i have a scope that cants thru the 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock spot that will put my hold over shot off to the right significantly since i am now moving my rifle up and to the right to keep the target on the vertical reticle...the long range reticles wouldn't work if your scope wasnt level

Am I out to lunch on my thinking??

If your scope is level when you use the rifle, being square to receiver is not important. If the scope is square on a canted rifle that will cause canted trajectory. Again its much more importatant crosshairs are square to target the square to receiver. The picture posted by MK clearly shows scope square on receiver but canted rifle will bugger up any attempts to dial elevation, however if the scope was square to the target rifle cant doesn't matter.

[Dmay]

My take: As long as the reticle is straight up and down (and thus level) for every shot, the cant of the gun under it means nothing. The bullet will drop down the reticle. I still wonder why somebody hasn't come up with a level inside the scope to help accomplish this. Outside levels, of course, accomplish this, but only if they are perfectly aligned to the reticle.

The above, of course, ignores coriolis effect.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

If your scope is level when you use the rifle, being square to receiver is not important. If the scope is square on a canted rifle that will cause canted trajectory. Again its much more importatant crosshairs are square to target the square to receiver. The picture posted by MK clearly shows scope square on receiver but canted rifle will bugger up any attempts to dial elevation, however if the scope was square to the target rifle cant doesn't matter.

Dale, the diagram shows a scope square to the rifle and then canted to the rifle (or rifle canted to the scope) The scope is always square to the target but the tajectory of the bullet takes it off course when they are not square to each other. The scope must be square to the reciever AND the verticle post must be straight up and down or square to the target.

[DaleJ]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Dale, the diagram shows a scope square to the rifle and then canted to the rifle (or rifle canted to the scope) The scope is always square to the target but the tajectory of the bullet takes it off course when they are not square to each other. The scope must be square to the reciever AND the verticle post must be straight up and down or square to the target.

Square to target yes. Square to receiver not important!

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Dmay

My take: As long as the reticle is straight up and down (and thus level) for every shot, the cant of the gun under it means nothing. The bullet will drop down the reticle. I still wonder why somebody hasn't come up with a level inside the scope to help accomplish this. Outside levels, of course, accomplish this, but only if they are perfectly aligned to the reticle.

The above, of course, ignores coriolis effect.

No the bullet will not drop down the reticle line. Your line of sight through the scope is perfectly straight but the path of the bullet is on a different plane. Once started in a sideways flight because of a canted rifle it will continue along that line and fall to the left or right of the reticle line.

[Dmay]

Originally Posted by MK2750

No the bullet will not drop down the reticle line. Your line of sight through the scope is perfectly straight but the path of the bullet is on a different plane. Once started in a sideways flight because of a canted rifle it will continue along that line and fall to the left or right of the reticle line.

Have to disagree. Gravity works straight down, no matter what. When the bullet exits, its starts down, straight down. If the reticle is level, it will predict the fall of the bullet.