10/22 10+ round magazine prohibition - discussed yet?

[lmtada]

Sold mine three years ago. Like the Cz452 American better.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by lmtada

Sold mine three years ago. Like the Cz452 American better.

So you're all set then?

[trophybook]

Wholesale sports still sells them. Just watch a guy by 1

[darren32]

CSSA just sent out this e-mail

TEAM CSSA and CSAAA JOIN TO ENABLE LEGAL ACTION TO DEFEND AGAINST 10/22 MAGAZINE RE-CLASSIFICATION

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - July 28, 2016

ETOBICOKE, ONTARIO - The Canadian Shooting Sports Association (CSSA), representing recreational firearms owners, has joined with the Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association (CSAAA), representing firearms business owners, to empower legal action against the recent decision by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Firearms Program to prohibit several brands of imported 10/22 extended capacity rifle magazines.

The CSAAA and CSSA Boards of Directors voted late last week to raise and contribute funding to a legal defence fund to make this legal action possible.

The action will be conducted by noted firearms lawyer Edward L. Burlew, L.L.B. , General Counsel for the CSSA.

Mr. Burlew states, "This recent, sudden reversal deprives legal firearms owners of their property rights and attacks their freedom. The RCMP has a duty to every Canadian to act fairly and consistently. The recent decision to reverse position on Ruger 10/22 magazines holding over 10 cartridges is a deliberate move to cause serious worry to hundreds of thousands of Canadians, licenced firearms dealers and importers."

Burlew adds, " A Federal Court Class Action on behalf of all persons, individuals, dealers and distributors who now possess cartridge magazines to fit the Ruger 10/22 that can contain more than 10 cartridges will be commenced. The purpose of the action is to seek a judgement that these magazines are not prohibited, to declare the magazine capacity restrictions void as unconstitutional or in the alternative to force a buy-back of each at full retail value. A claim for the intentional infliction of mental distress due to the fear of police action and criminal charges will be included."

Individuals are advised not to use, transfer, dispose of, alter or modify, or transport these magazines at this time.

At this time, due to the controversy, importers, dealers and individual owners are advised to stop sales and transfers of all 10/22 high capacity (over 10 rounds) rifle magazines. Businesses are cautioned not to attempt to “pin” magazines unless their license specifically authorizes work on prohibited magazines.

We are advising against businesses or their customers surrendering or returning these magazines to anyone at this time.

If you are the consumer owner of one of these magazines your participation in the action is very much desired. THERE IS NO FEE FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION BUT DONATIONS TO THE ACTION ARE WELCOME.

DONATIONS CAN BE MADE AT: 10/22 +10 Class Action Donation

From consumer owners we need:
• A communication informing us of your willingness to participate in a class action lawsuit;
• Brands and models of 10/22 +10 round capacity magazines currently in inventory and the value of the inventory;
• Digital copies of product packaging, manufacturers’ or distributors’ product sales information, product press releases;
• Any information, actions or comments by your Chief Firearms Officer, Inspectors, RCMP or any other law enforcement agency.
Consumer owners interested in joining the class action, are asked to email the above information to the CSSA at classaction@cssa-cila.org.

For more information call the CSSA at 905-571-2150.


From business owners we need:
• A communication informing us of your willingness to participate in a class action lawsuit;
• Brands and models of 10/22 +10 round capacity magazines currently in inventory and the value of the inventory;
• Digital copies of any product packaging, manufacturers’ or distributors’ product sales information, product press releases you may possess;
• Any information, actions or comments by your Chief Firearms Officer, Inspectors, RCMP or any other law enforcement agency.
Business owners interested in joining the class action, are asked to email the above information to the CSAAA at csaaa.legalaction@gmail.com.

For more information call the CSAAA at 705-875-2302.

-30-

[CaberTosser]

This is my letter to my MP, feel free to copy and/or edit it to send to your own MP.



It has come to my attention that the RCMP through their firearms office have elected to re-define the legality of some firearms magazines that fit what is likely the most commonly sold .22lr rifle in Canada, namely the Ruger 10/22. This is an extremely common firearm and they are owned by nearly every gun owner I know, including some for whom it is their sole firearm. I imagine that you are aware that a .22lr is the smallest and weakest cartridge that is commonly available and that it is primarily used for target shooting or rodent/pest control. The Ruger 10/22 rifle is supplied with a 10 round magazine from the factory, and this is allowed as our firearms laws state that there is no limit to the capacity of a rimfire rifle magazine, (there are magazines up to 110 rounds available for it available for purchase at most Canadian firearms retailers). The sticky part is that there is a 10 round limit to the capacity of a pistol magazine, even if it is a rimfire pistol.

In 2007 Ruger came out with a pistol variant of their popular 10/22 rifle, and magazines designed for their rifle would typically also fit the new pistol. This Ruger pistol variant of the 10/22 rifle design is called the Charger and it is not particularly common in comparison to its rifle sibling, primarily due to the fact that in Canada pistols can only be fired legally at restricted-firearm approved ranges. Ruger 10/22 rifles can be shot pretty much anywhere save for developed areas so their utility and popularity among shooters is many times greater than that of the relatively rare pistol variant. These pistols are likely outnumbered by their rifle siblings by a ratio of 300 to 1 (or possibly a much wider ratio, considering the 40 year span of the past 50 that only the rifle version was available for sale). I will allow that these numbers are just guesses, but they're educated guesses that could be pursued to truthful numbers as the Charger pistols will all be legally registered in Canada and the rifle imports could be totalled up.

Around the same time as the Charger pistols introduction Ruger released a 25 round magazine to fit their 10/22 rifle and their new Charger pistol, this new magazine was immediately banned in Canada due to the fact that its packaging stated that it would fit both the 10/22 rifle as well as the Charger pistol variant. Other 25 round capacity magazines (such as by by Butler Creek) that are designed for the 10/22 rifle have existed since their patent date in the late 1970's, and as their design intent was for the only product available at the time (the 10/22 rifle) they have always been available for sale in Canada until very recently, just this past week as a matter of fact. I purchased one of these magazines at Cabelas just this spring of 2016 when they were on sale for an attractive price, and the shelf display was about 3 or 4 columns high, 6 to 8 wide and stacked about 5 deep. This large quantity on display in a single store is telling of how common a product these magazines are and of how many Canadians surely own them. If a product has been available for 40 years and all of the firearms stores keep anywhere from a dozen to a hundred on display, you can imagine that the number of them in the possession of citizens is significant, this is 10's of millions of dollars worth of product rendered unlawful by some lab techs for no logical reason. No safety improvement will occur because they have not been an issue in the first place. I would have no hesitation saying there's likely more than 250,000 of these Butler Creek (and similar) 25 round magazines in Canada, at bare minimum. Many Ruger 10/22 owners might own quite a few of these magazines rather than just one because many own more than one Ruger 10/22 firearm or they might want multiple magazines for each firearm. Another thing that is self-evident in these numbers (though admittedly they're educated guesses) is that we have yet to hear of a crime committed with these magazines despite there being an immemse number of them in country, this indicates (to me at least) that they're statistically much safer than butter knives.

A fact backing up the ridiculous nature of this RCMP firearms lab interpretation is that many competing rimfire rifles made by other companies don't have pistol variants, so these models are perfectly fine to have large capacity magazines for. Exactly how many lives will be saved by this waste of ink and arbitrary criminalization of hundreds of thousands of legal firearms owners? The answer to that is zero.

I will state that I don't think that having a laboratory full of techs sitting around and redefining what is and isn't legal is a good use of RCMP resources, especially if their actions are not based in response to an existing firearm-related crime statistic. This is clearly a department make-work project and it is demonstrating that the Firearms Office have little regard for the rights of the citizens whom they serve . If these magazines have been available for 40 years and we don't have any crimes, murders or injuries attributed to them (or most specifically related to their capacity) then what really is the issue? I don't agree with the concept of a police agency having the authority to define what is and isn't legal, this is a power the RCMP should not be granted. The arbitrary ban of citizens possessions is something that should not be taken lightly, and with this action the RCMP have created at minimum a few hundred thousand 'criminals' out of law-abiding citizens. While Canada needs jobs, this is not a good make-work project that the RCMP have undertaken as it will only employ police and lawyers. Send a message to the RCMP Firearms Lab that arbitrarily banning our possessions is not part of their scope, that duty is the responsibility of Parliament alone in response to the wishes put forth to them by the citizens whom they represent.

I hope that you will concur that this is an unnecessary RCMP action that will result in no positive outcome, and that it is an insult to lawful Canadian firearms owners. I consider this to be evidence that the RCMP Firearms Lab are in all likelihood overstaffed if they have the time and resources to run off on absurd and irrelevant tangents such as this. I respect Canadian law enforcement and support them fully in the pursuit of criminals, I do however draw the line when they create definitions that make myself and a significant percentage of the legal firearm community into criminals.


Some links for posterity, the RCMP decision being referenced is posted at top and the relevant products being discussed are linked below that.


http://www.rcmp.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/notic...-27-eng.htm#q1

http://www.ruger.com/products/22Charger/models.html

http://www.ruger.com/products/1022/overview.html

http://www.butlercreek.com/products/..._25_round.html


Below are examples of a competitors equivalent .22lr rifle and a 30-round capacity magazine for it that are still available and remain unaffected by the RCMP's arbitrary ban on the other type of magazine, note that the magazine link is from Cabela's Canadian website.

https://www.remington.com/rifles/rimfire/model-597
http://www.cabelas.ca/product/21755/...round-magazine

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It would have made no difference. Trudou #2 would simply have revoked the previous governments changes.

Liberals hate guns. They always have and always will.
If they can't get rid of guns one way, they will simply find another way.

Remember, it costs them nothing to try and fail. We pay the bills either way.

That's true .Justine has spent the majority of his time repealing Conservative legislation since he lucked into the job .Between that and posing for selfies it's been a busy year.

[RolHammer]

CSSA just offered a great reason to join/donate: a class action suit.

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/T...id=U1AJXd1stas

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by play.soccer

SO FAR it's just 1022 mags. But your 597 could be next if we don't stand up now.

Not just 10/22 mags exactly. Those also fit AMT Lightnings, 77/22 bolt actions and a few 10/22 clones.

The Mossberg semi autos are also affected by their magazines being banned.

There is some prohib .22s out there already, like the Calico.

[M70]

I just made a donation to the CSSA class action law suit. Even if you don't use the mags being discussed, it's a good cause.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by M70

I just made a donation to the CSSA class action law suit. Even if you don't use the mags being discussed, it's a good cause.

i agree. I'll be doing the same too.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by rugatika

If Harper et al would have brought in some common sense gun laws, getting rid of restricted status etc at the start of their majority mandate then people would have gotten use to that taste of liberty and woud be more loathe to give it up.

It would have made it at least slightly more politically expensive for Trudeau to go backwards. Now, Trudeau barely needs to get any stink on himself. He let's the RCMP do his dirty work.

Appeasing your enemy does not make them your friend. A lesson liberals learned a long time ago...but one that conservatives seem unable to pick up on.

I can't argue that. However, I wonder if maybe other issues distracted them before they finished the job.

We all know that the opposition was united in wanting to keep the registry and associated laws intact and that they do use distraction as a tool.

[rugatika]

I actually hate the darn things, but I can sure recognize the thin edge of the wedge. Make noise now.

[dgl1948]

It has started.

Burlew adds, " A Federal Court Class Action on behalf of all persons, individuals, dealers and distributors who now possess cartridge magazines to fit the Ruger 10/22 that can contain more than 10 cartridges will be commenced. The purpose of the action is to seek a judgement that these magazines are not prohibited, to declare the magazine capacity restrictions void as unconstitutional or in the alternative to force a buy-back of each at full retail value. A claim for the intentional infliction of mental distress due to the fear of police action and criminal charges will be included."

Individuals are advised not to use, transfer, dispose of, alter or modify, or transport these magazines at this time.

At this time, due to the controversy, importers, dealers and individual owners are advised to stop sales and transfers of all 10/22 high capacity (over 10 rounds) rifle magazines. Businesses are cautioned not to attempt to “pin” magazines unless their license specifically authorizes work on prohibited magazines.

We are advising against businesses or their customers surrendering or returning these magazines to anyone at this time.

[HighlandHeart]

I figured it was only a matter of time before the new government banned the 25 round .22lr magazines. They make a .22lr rifle look just like an AK-47 assault machine gun sniper weapon, and the Liberals love protecting us from the scary looking guns.

[762Russian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

I actually hate the darn things, but I can sure recognize the thin edge of the wedge. Make noise now.

Ditto. I won't let a 10/22 into my house, but be damned if I won't let others waste their money on them.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by 762Russian

Ditto. I won't let a 10/22 into my house, but be damned if I won't let others waste their money on them.

What dont you like about them?

[762Russian]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

What dont you like about them?

The list is sizable, but it is a discussion for a different thread; this one's topic is quite important and doesn't need derailing.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by 762Russian

The list is sizable, but it is a discussion for a different thread; this one's topic is quite important and doesn't need derailing.

That a healthy attitude, its important that even those who don't like the specific firearms stand up in defence of its accessories. Most of us know where that leads, but a few Fudd's might willingly throw someone else's things to the wolves and then later complain when the same wolves return for something of theirs.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by 762Russian

Ditto. I won't let a 10/22 into my house, but be damned if I won't let others waste their money on them.

Just to be clear...I like 10/22's (I have more than a couple of them...) I just don't care for the 25rnd mags.

[CaberTosser]

What a crappy presentation by the Rebel on this matter, most of their photo references are completely wrong. First off they start with a photo of the Ruger BX25 magazine which was prohibited right out of the gate, its not even a part of the controversy despite being essentially the same thing as the Butler Creek magazine, then they post a picture of a photo of a Ruger SR22P instead of a photo of the Ruger Charger, what a bunch of maroons.......

I get that it was a screw up by the graphics person, but there is a world of difference between a Charger due to its size & length than there is with the SR22P which could be used by the anti's as a picture of something that's scary and carried by evil criminals. The SR22P is small and concealable, the Charger is not.

Link being discussed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aIhWtOjEz4

[Dubious]

Just seen this posted http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/n...-07-27-eng.htm

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 762Russian

Ditto. I won't let a 10/22 into my house, but be damned if I won't let others waste their money on them.

Sounds like someone wants to come out of the closet and show us his collection....come on buddy....share with us!

[markg]

I am am a proud new member of the CSSA. I should have done it a long time ago. United we stand Divided we fall!

[762Russian]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Sounds like someone wants to come out of the closet and show us his collection....come on buddy....share with us!

Man, the last time one got in my house it took two weeks of fumigation before I considered the place habitable again