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  #91  
Old 05-31-2017, 11:14 AM
ryeguy21 ryeguy21 is offline
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i tuned into all the phone calls to ched after 930 on the topic. Heard the usual antis crying foul over a cull and the usual hunters crying over first nations hunters.

From what i heard from the callers it was clear no one did any research on the topic before calling in. I did hear jesperson admit he lost the elk island guy over one of his comments.

It sounded like he was ill prepared for this elk island guest. Ill look for a podcast later to hear what went wrong.
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  #92  
Old 05-31-2017, 11:43 AM
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Nube, your idea of selling tags has a lot of merit, and having residents be able to hunt Cows at the same time sounds like a not bad suggestion. One problem I see is the time factor. I thought the whole idea was to cull the herd as quickly as possible back to 200 from 600. Sounds like they are destroying the parks habitat more and more every day. You would need to sell a lot of tags very quickly. And in a hunt like that, wouldn't a non res need a guide or at least a host?
By the by, what do you think an Elk bull tag could go for? I can't see more then 10,000.00 a tag, when you consider that a non res can already hunt bull elk with a guide or host.
I'm guesstimating that you would have to sell 10 tags at 10,000.00 to hire, train and equip one CO for one year. Even if you sold 50 tags for 10,000.00 you would hardly make a dent in the 400 Elk that have to be culled. Even if you could sell the tag for 50,000.00, (which I doubt), it still wouldn't make a dent in the herd. Too much time and too little money raised.
Perhaps once the cull is finished you could sell a couple Bull Elk tags every year to raise some money.
The park is seperated into 2 areas. Sell 5 tags per side for bulls. Then draw the desired number of Cow tags to knock the numbers down a bit. I wouldn't go wipe them out all at once and do it slowly over 5 years.

If you think you could only get 10K per tag I think you would be mistaken.
I myself personally would take a loan out myself for 10K if I could kill one for that price. Where else would you have a chance to hunt 380+ bulls consistently for under 10K anywhere in the USA?
Then you also can Auction off a couple tags as well for $20 a ticket.....
Then the people who want meat can apply for cow tags to fill their freezers.

From what I read they are 400 elk over the number they want. I think they could take 100 cows easy enough for 5-6 years to get the numbers they want.
Thats a quick run down of an idea. I 'm sure it isn't a perfect idea but it's better than a free for all to wipe them all out
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  #93  
Old 05-31-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
If you think you could only get 10K per tag I think you would be mistaken.
I myself personally would take a loan out myself for 10K if I could kill one for that price. Where else would you have a chance to hunt 380+ bulls consistently for under 10K anywhere in the USA?
the price could be 10 million i would still say no.

some people just want to bend the public over for a bit of money.
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  #94  
Old 05-31-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Agreed..^ cull them and ration it out to needy family's. The guy driving the 90,000 dollar diesel pick up doesn't need cull meat from a pen.
x2
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  #95  
Old 05-31-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
The park is seperated into 2 areas. Sell 5 tags per side for bulls. Then draw the desired number of Cow tags to knock the numbers down a bit. I wouldn't go wipe them out all at once and do it slowly over 5 years.

If you think you could only get 10K per tag I think you would be mistaken.
I myself personally would take a loan out myself for 10K if I could kill one for that price. Where else would you have a chance to hunt 380+ bulls consistently for under 10K anywhere in the USA?
Then you also can Auction off a couple tags as well for $20 a ticket.....
Then the people who want meat can apply for cow tags to fill their freezers.

From what I read they are 400 elk over the number they want. I think they could take 100 cows easy enough for 5-6 years to get the numbers they want.
Thats a quick run down of an idea. I 'm sure it isn't a perfect idea but it's better than a free for all to wipe them all out
I thought the whole point was to cull them as quickly as possible, to stop the destruction of habitat, and reduce the chance of disease. I might have that wrong.
What do you think is a realistic dollar amount to charge? I thought even 10,000.00 was aiming high. Once herd is reduced to a managable size you could probably charge 50,000.00 or even 100,000.00 for a single tag to hunt a trophy Elk in the park, but I don't think thats what this talk about a cull is about.
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  #96  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:04 PM
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It's a pipe dream to think that this hunt will generate revenue that will benefit habitat and/or hunters.

Once they allow hunting, FN have full access just like Suffield and other areas that are opened to hunting.

Honestly resident Albertan hunters will be lucky to even get a sniff of a hunt inside the base.

I hope I am wrong...but honestly the Government should do their own dirty work, these situations do nothing to ease tensions amongst the different class of Hunters.

LC
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  #97  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
... I hope I am wrong...but honestly the Government should do their own dirty work, these situations do nothing to ease tensions amongst the different class of Hunters.
For once, and quite Sadly I might add, I strongly agree with you Lefty...

Sadly,
Nog
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  #98  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
I hope I am wrong...but honestly the Government should do their own dirty work, these situations do nothing to ease tensions amongst the different class of Hunters.

LC
Agreed. These culls only drive a deeper wedge between the groups. Everything must be equal which is highly unlikely, therefore do it yourself so not one group benefits more than another. It would do better for relations to waste all those animals than it would to divide them unequally.
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  #99  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:44 PM
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When I said base I meant Park.

LC
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  #100  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
It's a pipe dream to think that this hunt will generate revenue that will benefit habitat and/or hunters.

Once they allow hunting, FN have full access just like Suffield and other areas that are opened to hunting.

Honestly resident Albertan hunters will be lucky to even get a sniff of a hunt inside the base.

I hope I am wrong...but honestly the Government should do their own dirty work, these situations do nothing to ease tensions amongst the different class of Hunters.

LC

I can't for the life of me understand why they would consider indigenous hunters and regular hunters as two separate options to do this cull. It just enforces the double standard that has been ingrained into our society.

Why not just indigenous or non-indigenous licensed hunters?
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  #101  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Agreed. These culls only drive a deeper wedge between the groups. Everything must be equal which is highly unlikely, therefore do it yourself so not one group benefits more than another. It would do better for relations to waste all those animals than it would to divide them unequally.



As I get wiser,
I see a clear path to the end of our ability to eat from Nature's bounty.

Not so slowly anymore, governments and big business are taking away peoples' human right to access food.


"Non-aboriginal" people have the same inherent right to food and water as "Aboriginal" or First Nations people.

Canadian Non-aboriginal peoples, including most hunters are complicit in exacting this bleak future.

The problem is Canadian non-aboriginal people have been content to legally describe themselves as "Recreational" hunters/fishers and gatherers. Many rejoicing when a new park is formed despite the loss of access to our FOOD!


The only way forward for All people to have access to natural food is to fight for it.
Small Kudos to AFGA for getting in the door.
But why did they not get the membership and community at large informed of the potential to influence the National Parks service into
allowing ALL people a chance to eat?
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  #102  
Old 05-31-2017, 04:46 PM
Scopithorne Scopithorne is offline
 
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Default Elk island

I think they should open it up to youth Hunters only. Everyone applies for a licence regardless of status
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  #103  
Old 05-31-2017, 05:40 PM
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In the end parks will likely end up paying a group for its services in culling the elk and transporting to a safe disposal site. Too many questions need to be answered and responsibility for the use of the meat for human consumption, and a hunt by anyone other than first nations would be to controversial for the government to be worth it.

It could be a huge plus for the parks system, but the last few pages of discussion show why it will go that way.
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  #104  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:01 PM
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I am saddened by those that try and reduce wildlife to a price tag, actually sickened by it. Amazing how our heritage is being reduced to money. Interesting to see those that do the pushing are those that hunt out of country regularly. Seems in their minds everything is for sale.
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  #105  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Scopithorne View Post
I think they should open it up to youth Hunters only. Everyone applies for a licence regardless of status
A youth draw only area would be a great option. My favourite option by far.
Why wouldn't you want to promote a hunting opportunity like this for youth hunters under the age of eighteen. This would be a great opportunity for them to learn responsible hunting practices at a young age.
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  #106  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:59 PM
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A youth draw only area would be a great option. My favourite option by far.
Why wouldn't you want to promote a hunting opportunity like this for youth hunters under the age of eighteen. This would be a great opportunity for them to learn responsible hunting practices at a young age.
X2.... a youth aboriginal hunt.
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  #107  
Old 05-31-2017, 07:06 PM
waterninja waterninja is offline
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For once, and quite Sadly I might add, I strongly agree with you Lefty...

Sadly,
Nog
Thats funny. I also agree, except that it goes beyond just hunting and fishing.
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  #108  
Old 05-31-2017, 08:07 PM
Ken3134 Ken3134 is offline
 
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[QUOTE=3blade;3551263]Given the events that occcured in Banff, suffield, etc. and the short notice, I've got a pretty good idea which option they have chosen. The public consultation is just lip service to all non-natives.



I think you nailed it 3blade. It should be an open draw that is fair to everyone. Make it a hunt for hunger, I would have no issue donating the meat.
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  #109  
Old 05-31-2017, 08:30 PM
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X2.... a youth aboriginal hunt.
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  #110  
Old 05-31-2017, 09:32 PM
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I don't think it would be a very thrilling buffalo hunt. I drive past elk island everyday for work and the buffalo have absolutely no fear vehicles or people. However if you are only interested in the awesome meat, it's certainly worth it. Just my opinion...
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  #111  
Old 05-31-2017, 09:44 PM
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There is no way that parks is going to auction tags or be seen to raise money off a hunt regardless of the good causes it could be spent on.

Allowing hunting in a national park will already be way out of the comfort zone of the average Canadian. The only way to sell it is purely as a management tool to protect the habitat. Any whiff of this is being done to make money will create even more opposition.
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  #112  
Old 05-31-2017, 10:39 PM
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Keep the personal bickering and native (comments from both sides) out of this thread.
Cat
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  #113  
Old 05-31-2017, 10:51 PM
waterninja waterninja is offline
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I don't think it would be a very thrilling buffalo hunt. I drive past elk island everyday for work and the buffalo have absolutely no fear vehicles or people. However if you are only interested in the awesome meat, it's certainly worth it. Just my opinion...
Buffalo hunt?????
I hope it's your mommy driving you to work. Buffalo hunt??? OMG
Wrong thread. This one is about hunting Beaver. And your right, it is awesome meat.
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  #114  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:19 AM
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Keep the personal bickering and native (comments from both sides) out of this thread.
Cat
Dang Cat you killed the thread
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  #115  
Old 06-01-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Young Eldon View Post
First Nations have been given priority to hunt in Banff Park and Suffield army base. Newfoundland residents have been allowed to hunt moose in a Federal Park in Newfoundland.
A draw hunt open to all Canadians ...
So, would the first step be to open the Newfoundland hunt to "ALL CANADIANS"? Then the precedent is set for Elk Island?
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  #116  
Old 06-01-2017, 05:18 PM
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Any draw hunt on Federal lands open to all Canadians would be a precedent.
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  #117  
Old 06-01-2017, 05:28 PM
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Not interested in the government issuing tags for a giant canned hunt. Can you imagine the pride in yourself for walking into a fenced park and shooting a bull , but make sure you argue over who gets to do it first
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  #118  
Old 06-01-2017, 07:05 PM
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Any draw hunt on Federal lands open to all Canadians would be a precedent.

If all were treated equally it sure would.
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  #119  
Old 06-01-2017, 07:22 PM
waterninja waterninja is offline
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Not interested in the government issuing tags for a giant canned hunt. Can you imagine the pride in yourself for walking into a fenced park and shooting a bull , but make sure you argue over who gets to do it first
Sorry Jay, but you don't have a clue. You make it sound like the Elk are in a schoolyard or something. Elk Island Park might be fenced, but it is huge. Might as well say that hunting on private property, or on crown land is also "canned" hunting. Or that fishing in a lake is unsportsmanlike because it is bordered by a shoreline.
So what is your solution to the overpopulation problem? I would really like to know. I'm betting you want to put Wolves, Bears and Cougars in there and let mother nature sort them out.
"Canned" hunt? People with your attitude are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

EDIT... Hunters have a hard time harvesting an Elk or Deer in Blackfoot, which border's Elk Island, despite all it's trails.

Last edited by waterninja; 06-01-2017 at 07:35 PM.
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  #120  
Old 06-01-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
Open your eyes and tell me what is better then?
You want to wipe out an excess herd of Elk and moose and get nothing in return or do u want to get some money out of it and turn around and hire extra CO's, put money into habitat developement, sheep studies, predator control, predator studies, help the caribou and many other projects this province needs money for but does not help. These projects will better things for all Albertans including your narrow minded thoughts. Big picture bud....
Who knows even if the money was made then you wouldn't see the NDP reaching into your pocket and screwing with your hunting either....Castle area ring a bell.....

It has nothing to do with my Americans. I don't have anything to do with Big game outfitting and to tell you the truth they could shut down outfitting in Alberta all together and I would not give 2 hoots.
All you care about is filling a couple freezers for a year or 2 when you can benefit hunting for lifetimes to come.
If there is money to be made on the excess elk and moose, the Government will probably do what they want with the money or put it back into the parks. I see no incentive to let recreational hunters benefit.

The sad truth is that this is a cull or an extermination. Just supervising will be a drain on tax dollars and a big fiasco. No matter what they decide there will be many threads of debate and heated argument.
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