Alberta Power Grid Alert

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I am glad Alberta put a pause on wind and solar, our grids capacity is already over 25% wind and solar. No need for anymore when it requires full time backup.

We need 125 percent carbon sourced back up for the 25% renewable electricity we have.... Makes perfect sense to a politician.

Why are we paying carbon tax on green electricity?

BW

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

You are right, if evil Danielle had built 6 months more solar and wind we would've never experienced the shortage. Good job rooting out root cause.

You mention earlier that upgrades to the grid are needed. The funny thing is we started upgrading the grid by shutting down coal and relying on wind an solar. Before the upgrades there were no supply issues. Now that we are about half upgraded we depend on SK's un-upgraded grid to hold us together.

Serious question; is change always improvement in your eyes?

No change is not always an improvement but it is all part of moving foreword.

Without change/failure you will never really meet true potential or success.

Nothing is perfect and always can be improved on.


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[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

We need 125 percent carbon sourced back up for the 25% renewable electricity we have.... Makes perfect sense to a politician.

Why are we paying carbon tax on green electricity?

BW

Even today wind and solar is pretty much useless.

http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

No change is not always an improvement but it is all part of moving foreword.

Without change/failure you will never really meet true potential or success.

Nothing is perfect and always can be improved on.


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There’s forced (& stupid) change based on blind ideology (current selection of “renewables”, that are proven to be unreliable), and there’s intelligent change based on small trials over time. The lieberals/left wing seem to be hell bent on the former.

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Alberta power problems now over! Just saw where Transalta finally got around to firing up largest power plant in Alberta. When All 6 turbines were off line during coldest Alberta days in 20 years not surprising we had to unplug our block heaters. Now for excessive $$ power bills coming next month.

Tell me more about this largest power plant in Alberta that Transalta has. They must have put it up fast.

They did just get the one and only unit left at their Sundance plant (Sun 6) back on two days ago. You are correct that at one time it was the largest plant in the province. TAU should have focused on Keephills and kept those three units viable instead of one at Sundance, and two at Keephills.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by I’d rather be outdoors

There’s forced (& stupid) change based on blind ideology (current selection of “renewables”, that are proven to be unreliable), and there’s intelligent change based on small trials over time. The lieberals/left wing seem to be hell bent on the former.

True to a point as the country is so big and demands are different as is supply so it’s a lot to take into consideration.

The Libs need to take that into consideration and let our own provincial gubermemts paint the way but even that is a gong show too on the best days


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[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

No change is not always an improvement but it is all part of moving foreword.

Without change/failure you will never really meet true potential or success.

Nothing is perfect and always can be improved on.


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I can agree with the above for the most part. But chasing every change thinking there will be improvement is a fools errand in itself. Somethings are best left alone until true potential shows.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I can agree with the above for the most part. But chasing every change thinking there will be improvement is a fools errand in itself. Somethings are best left alone until true potential shows.

True potential is only found through trial and error in many cases two steps forward and one step back seems about the norm.

We had a set back as in a perfect storm in which things lined up for the worse but was caught early enough to prevent a complete catastrophic failure.

Hopefully lessens learnt.


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[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I can agree with the above for the most part. But chasing every change thinking there will be improvement is a fools errand in itself. Somethings are best left alone until true potential shows.

They're not re-inventing the wheel in AB, every form of electrical generation has been tried and tested in thousands of jurisdictions around the world already. Deciding what works specifically for AB. without learning from other places with similar conditions is foolish. Can't forget how the profit motive influences every political decision in which direction they decide to go, in fact it's usually the determining factor that wins out over "for the good of the people".

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

B.C. and Alberta are very different when it comes to generating power. B.C. has far more hydro electric between dams and run of the river projects. Alberta just doesn’t have the water ways to even consider it. Completely different challenges based on the resources available comparing the two is provinces is not even worth the effort

When you bring up wind and solar these projects exist but lack production. Not near as viable as some would like to believe. Might as well start relying on unicorn farts to power the grid

Now what might be worth considering is generating electricity through wood pellet plants like is being done in Europe. It’s supposed to be “carbon neutral” by “green energy “ standards even. Presently we are actually producing wood pellets from by products for this purpose and shipping them to Europe. We all ready produce the fuel to run these plants here in Canada

Absolutely both provinces are different. What many don't seem to acknowledge is that a lot of electricity is sold to BC fom Alberta, (most during high wind or bright sun, of which Alberta has a lot of). That electricity enables BC hydro to slow the water run through turbines at the many dams in the province. That water being held back can then produce electricity to supply either province (and western states) depending on need at other times of the year.
Investing in grid improvements is may be expensive, but compared to the alternatives it's pretty cheap.
I completely agree with you on the wood pellet issue, and I've always thought that incinerating waste makes a lot more sense. With modern tech, and Albertas ability to capture carbon it seems a bit of a win, win.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

True potential is only found through trial and error in many cases two steps forward and one step back seems about the norm.

We had a set back as in a perfect storm in which things lined up for the worse but was caught early enough to prevent a complete catastrophic failure.

Hopefully lessens learnt.


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Hard no.

We haven’t had you on a bicycle connected to an alternator yet. Do we really have to see the 58thcat electrocycle through to its fruition to know its a bad idea? How will we know until we take that step back though?

There is something to be said about learning from ones mistakes; but if one can’t learn anything without there being a mistake or two, I think that is another discussion.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I completely agree with you on the wood pellet issue, and I've always thought that incinerating waste makes a lot more sense. With modern tech, and Albertas ability to capture carbon it seems a bit of a win, win.

Plastics are basically the solid form of natural gas. When the 3rd world quit taking our recycle plastics, we now bury it in landfills. Why isn’t there a power plant burning our plastics instead of letting it break down over a thousand years or whatever in a landfill?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Hard no.

We haven’t had you on a bicycle connected to an alternator yet. Do we really have to see the 58thcat electrocycle through to its fruition to know its a bad idea? How will we know until we take that step back though?

Well it would be a step back to power up good old ‘Berta but a step forward to see and be seen on my way home from the pub….that little generator powered by the rotation of the front tire is/was a game changer.




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[Scott h]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Plastics are basically the solid form of natural gas. When the 3rd world quit taking our recycle plastics, we now bury it in landfills. Why isn’t there a power plant burning our plastics instead of letting it break down over a thousand years or whatever in a landfill?

100%. Incinerating waste when you have carbon capture already set up would be a no brainer, and would be a very easy sell. It essentially would be a new "green" energy source.

[2 Tollers]

Another article on the near miss that occurred in the cold snap.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...nu/ar-AA1n4G5c

A statement from the article that I agree with:

"Due to Mackay’s real-time reports on social media, we know that on January 13 — when the average temperature was -33 across the province and our phones and TV sets sounded off like fire alarms as the provincial government sent out a plea to reduce consumption to avoid rotating black-outs — Mackay reported that gas was supplying 80.5% of our electricity, coal 7.9%, biomass, 2.9%, hydro, 2.5%, solar, 1.3%, and wind, 0.99%.

Such was Mackay’s distress about this close call that he vented on social media: “This is bullsh*t,” he said. “Being asked to save electricity in one of the coldest places on the planet that also happens to sit on one of the largest energy supplies in the world is insane. We should be one of the wealthiest, most advanced societies in the world. Instead, we are all sitting in the dark with our fingers crossed that heat stays on.”

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

Another article on the near miss that occurred in the cold snap.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...nu/ar-AA1n4G5c

A statement from the article that I agree with:

"Due to Mackay’s real-time reports on social media, we know that on January 13 — when the average temperature was -33 across the province and our phones and TV sets sounded off like fire alarms as the provincial government sent out a plea to reduce consumption to avoid rotating black-outs — Mackay reported that gas was supplying 80.5% of our electricity, coal 7.9%, biomass, 2.9%, hydro, 2.5%, solar, 1.3%, and wind, 0.99%.

Such was Mackay’s distress about this close call that he vented on social media: “This is bullsh*t,” he said. “Being asked to save electricity in one of the coldest places on the planet that also happens to sit on one of the largest energy supplies in the world is insane. We should be one of the wealthiest, most advanced societies in the world. Instead, we are all sitting in the dark with our fingers crossed that heat stays on.”

Why do we need Net Zero by 2050? All the more reason to Separate and have APP. Why Stay?

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Maybe when there is forecast need, the few coal plants left should fire up and stay fired up. In the reality of cold weather, Ottawa's Carbon Tax has to be suspended so the coal plants in Alberta can operate to meet the demand.



Drewski

They have to run full time. We can't just turn them on when we feel the need. Its not like throwing an armful of wood into the woodstove on the coldest days.

How would we round up trained staff for a few days or a couple months a year to suddenly fire them up even if they did work that way.. They have to be staffed and maintained constantly year round. These people aren't going to hang around to work a week or a month a year.....unless they can clear at least $6-8000 a month on EI for the other 10 or 11 months .

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Scott h

100%. Incinerating waste when you have carbon capture already set up would be a no brainer, and would be a very easy sell. It essentially would be a new "green" energy source.

Why can’t we use carbon capture on coal plants then?

[Bushrat]

We have around 900 wind turbines in Alberta they generate from what sources I can find anywhere from 5-10% under ideal conditions. We would have to build another 10,000 to 20 thousand wind turbines to produce for all our elecctrical needs in ideal conditions. When we need them most they are not working and can't be depended on at any time of year especially when we need it most in the winter.

The visual and sensory pollution of these things on the landscape would be 10 or 20 times as appauling as they are now to say nothing of the natural resources used to construct and keep them operated or the land needed to place them all. Then have to be replaced every 15-20 years. The costs will be astronomical. Wind turbines are not the answer to our problems now or in the future. For all the billions we have spent on them in the last 25 years we haven't accomplished much. How much longer are we going to keep proping up this unreliable energy generation scheme, at what cost? This money could have gone into research and development of cleaner technology and efficiency of traditional and new alternative electrical generation projects.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Plastics are basically the solid form of natural gas. When the 3rd world quit taking our recycle plastics, we now bury it in landfills. Why isn’t there a power plant burning our plastics instead of letting it break down over a thousand years or whatever in a landfill?

Although it is a very inefficient and dirty means of producing electricity, The big advantage is that on the world stage it is a ZERO emissions method.


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[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Why can’t we use carbon capture on coal plants then?

Clean coal technology exists and through innovation is getting much better all the time for coal burning hydro plants. Changes in burner technology, scrubbers, stripping of harmful emissions and sequestration are all viable.

This could have been explored for some of Alberta's plants (newer ones) and I will never understand why this was not pursued long before Notley. The province could have been a leader in exporting technology in these areas and maintained the operation of the newer plants.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Although it is a very inefficient and dirty means of producing electricity, The big advantage is that on the world stage it is a ZERO emissions method.


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And likely we could source cheap feedstock from all over the globe.

[outofbounds]

When considering certain levels of government both Provincial and Federal shun gas fired power generation for some but approve for others one can look to the current mining industry. In locations across Canada there are Wartsilla generators burning gas piped from TC Energy 42" Mainline to produce electricity to mining operations where provincial grids either are currently non existent or do not have the load capacity for reliable grid connection. All of these have been approved under EA and permitting process for life of mine which in some cases are as short as 10-15 years to beyond 25. Distance from the TC Mainline has been the only cost prohibitive factor for producers as pipeline connection and generator costs in most cases surge to over what a grid connection would be.

Look at most of the recent linear transmission infrastructure that has been built across Canada. Dollars to donuts there is a mining development located at or near the load end of these projects. Billions of dollars are being spent on this infrastructure for future production. A return on investment for both Federal and Provincial governments once these operations are up and running. Approvals for one sector versus the other, whilst the bill is footed by others. Typical root causes of significant power outage and grid failure- steep market increase in wholesale electricity prices, intermittent power shortages during peak demand periods, and the deterioration of the financial stability of major investor-owned utilities in a deregulated electricity market.

[AxeMan]

Here is a very detailed video on the justification that governments have been fed by the elitist masterminds (mostly UN based) of the world regarding our future energy production and the use of a carbon tax. Obviously, Trudeau and Guilbeault have been sold on this plan.

It is a video that does indeed explain the "kool-aid" that is behind the carbon tax in a clear detailed way. Personally, I couldn't drink that much kool-aid, but it does show how Trudeau has been hood-winked.

The Truth About Carbon Taxes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznOL753eiQ

[FishHunterPro]

People need to experience the cold,dark reality of green energy and outages in the dead of the winter to understand that the government and infrastructure isn't ready yet to go all in on the green deal. I have my generator and wood stove ready .

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Although it is a very inefficient and dirty means of producing electricity, The big advantage is that on the world stage it is a ZERO emissions method.


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It may be dirtier than natural gas, but waste is a product that needs to be dealt with one way or another. When the power obtained is added to the fact that you won't be dealing with methane leaks from a garbage dump for hundreds of years it seems like the best one could hope for.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Why can’t we use carbon capture on coal plants then?

I assume you could, but digging up coal for power, and then turning around and burying waste that produces methane leaks seems a little backwards.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Scott h

It may be dirtier than natural gas, but waste is a product that needs to be dealt with one way or another. When the power obtained is added to the fact that you won't be dealing with methane leaks from a garbage dump for hundreds of years it seems like the best one could hope for.

Agreed

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

And likely we could source cheap feedstock from all over the globe.

Maybe not the world, but certainly from most of Canada. No end of power, and no end of carbon credits means no carbon tax......

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Scott h

It may be dirtier than natural gas, but waste is a product that needs to be dealt with one way or another. When the power obtained is added to the fact that you won't be dealing with methane leaks from a garbage dump for hundreds of years it seems like the best one could hope for.

Like I said, the added bonus would be that we would meet our goals for ZERO emissions. Just like Sweden. No need for scrubbers or any other fancy technology.