Albertal Wolf Management

[TreeGuy]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

I know wolf populations are on the rise, I was not arguing that. But I feel everyone is entering panic city way to fast. I don't believe our wolves are a huge problem like some people are advocating. I am not saying don't shoot wolves, I am saying I would just like to see some numbers of the wolf population versus the deer and moose population before an official management program is put in place. Because I have seen a few wolves this year, but have seen a strong number of moose and deer as well.

The antis said the same thing about the grizz and got the hunt shut down over a lack of 'scientific' numbers.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by waylow

If we feel that there is an over-population of wolves then why don't we just shoot more wolves?
Let's get out calling or set-up baits and shoot more. I get out as much as I can and shoot any wolf I see.
I know it sounds simple or easy but if we as hunters/ranchers/farmers are concerned with a growing wolf population, then let's do something about it rather than wait for the gov't to implement. Let's get off our easy chairs and way from the computers and spend more time in the field hunting these fiendish vilians down.

because for so many its easier to say hunting isnt gunna help and then sit and complain because the government isnt doing anything. If enough guys were out there it cant do anything but help!

[ganderblaster]

Wolfkillere what is the most effective method your family has found to kill these creatures? And excuse my ignorance but can anyone with a furbearers licsense or whatever its called (trapping) trap on private land? What does it take to get a trapping licsense?

[BrownBear416]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

because for so many its easier to say hunting isnt gunna help and then sit and complain because the government isnt doing anything. If enough guys were out there it cant do anything but help!

So how many wolves have you killed this winter SG??

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by BrownBear416

So how many wolves have you killed this winter SG??

When I get a chance to get out we will see. Only been out one day hunting them due to no releif at work. But there is one out there that is a little wiser due to a little to much distance.

[wolfkiller]

A pack of nine wolves will kill a moose about every 5 days. Where prey are smaller than moose, kills occur more frequently. Where populations of caribou,elk,moose or other prey have declined as a result of a combination of factors,such as severe winter weather, hunting and predation, wolves may kill enough animals to hold such herds at a low level for a long period of time. Wolf studies are not easy. The large size of wolf territories necessitates the use of aircraft, ohv, and lots of horse travel or hiking to capture and mark wolves, observe and count prey, or search for kills and other signs of the food habits of wolves. Researchers must be experienced in field work,animal capture and handling, radio telemetric monitoring, and have extensive knowledge of the ecology of the area. The cost of these long-term (1-several yrs) projects are huge. Public awareness and knowledge are paramount to future wolf management.

[wolfkiller]

We run bait sites for the wolves, it takes alot of work, and countless days waiting for them to show up, you dont just set a bait and wait a few hours, we know our wolves main areas and set baits close, you can pull a pack quite a ways to a bait but its better to be on there door step. The best winters for us is when there isnt much snow and they like to come for a free easy meal, when there is lots of snow the prey dont stand a chance. You cant just shoot a beta wolf out of the pack first, you must get one of the alpha pair or you probably wont see them back on your bait site. I like to get the alpha male first myself. One bait my uncle got 8 in one winter, due to shooting the alpha female first. Baits have to be fresh too, if you got a frozen cow, sure they might come to site but just like a bear if they dont get anything there gonna move on. To be a consistent succesful wolf hunter is a lot of work, you guys think chasin a booner whitetail is tough, just try wolf hunting. Gordie Klassen is very knowledgeable in the trapping world but i personally would say Paul Trepus is the top in the wolf business. Gordie trapped for 7 yrs on his trapline before they noticed an increase in wild game, and he probably averaged 20 wolves a year on his line, it takes a extreme amount of dedication, far beyond the average trapper. More has to be done regarding trappers, most guys have a trapline so they can have a cabin by the river, not hacking on trappers but i feel to have a line they should have a quota or something they gotta fill.Well thats my two cents.

Originally Posted by wolfkiller

We run bait sites for the wolves, it takes alot of work, and countless days waiting for them to show up, you dont just set a bait and wait a few hours, we know our wolves main areas and set baits close, you can pull a pack quite a ways to a bait but its better to be on there door step. The best winters for us is when there isnt much snow and they like to come for a free easy meal, when there is lots of snow the prey dont stand a chance. You cant just shoot a beta wolf out of the pack first, you must get one of the alpha pair or you probably wont see them back on your bait site. I like to get the alpha male first myself. One bait my uncle got 8 in one winter, due to shooting the alpha female first. Baits have to be fresh too, if you got a frozen cow, sure they might come to site but just like a bear if they dont get anything there gonna move on. To be a consistent succesful wolf hunter is a lot of work, you guys think chasin a booner whitetail is tough, just try wolf hunting. Gordie Klassen is very knowledgeable in the trapping world but i personally would say Paul Trepus is the top in the wolf business. Gordie trapped for 7 yrs on his trapline before they noticed an increase in wild game, and he probably averaged 20 wolves a year on his line, it takes a extreme amount of dedication, far beyond the average trapper. More has to be done regarding trappers, most guys have a trapline so they can have a cabin by the river, not hacking on trappers but i feel to have a line they should have a quota or something they gotta fill.Well thats my two cents.

Well said. If you really want 'em, you gotta put the time in.

[bigbadbrown]

Global Calgary did a report on the wolves around grand cache today.
They(goverment) have taken out 200 wolves in the last 3 years, thats including 35 taken this year.
This is just in that area though.

[gube]

I had posted some elk fly count stats back in 2007 showing the wolf depradation problems from back then. I'm curious as to what the fly stats are now.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...highlight=wolf

[wolfkiller]

They have been doing moose count in a few wmu's by home, now there doing the elk count, be interesting to see all the numbers.

[walking buffalo]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/albe.../12923486.html

An aerial crew has been fatally shooting the animals from a helicopter around Grande Cache, confirmed Darcy Whiteside, a spokesman for Alberta Sustainable Resource Development.

[Lone_Wolf]

Maybe if our economic footprint wasn't as big we wouldn't have a supposed wolf problem. Course then there would be whitetail running everywhere and we'd all be complaining.

We just can't be pleased. Simple as that. As long as people hunt one population or the other will not be right in our eyes.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

Maybe if our economic footprint wasn't as big we wouldn't have a supposed wolf problem. Course then there would be whitetail running everywhere and we'd all be complaining.

We just can't be pleased. Simple as that. As long as people hunt one population or the other will not be right in our eyes.

Happy to hear your opinions here, but you just keep on providing an emotional reponse, with no facts on this issue.

Please don't use inclusive comments like "our eyes". I do not agree with your position.

Wolves are among the most heavily researched animals in Alberta today, with millions being spent to understand how to live with them.

Some additional links for info:

http://www.ab-conservation.com/go/ta...A-AR-08-09.pdf

- pg.5 76.75% of funding directly from license levy -pg. 15 good photo - pg. 45 depradation compensation paid from ACA - pg. 57 see stats
NOT ONE mention of wolves in report.


http://www.fsfga.org/pdf/NordeggWolfReport.pdf

http://www.ptac.org/env/dl/envf0904p06.pdf

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/newre...reply&p=517695

-Includes ASRD admisson of wolf depradation concerns on elk populations


http://www.montaneelk.com/index.php

A very extensive project in SW Alberta

[Lone_Wolf]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Happy to hear your opinions here, but you just keep on providing an emotional reponse, with no facts on this issue.

Please don't use inclusive comments like "our eyes". I do not agree with your position.

I was not going to say anything but I guess I shall in light of a comment such as this one. I was able to speak to a Fish and Wildlife Officer yesterday and obviously the wolf population in Alberta was brought up and talked about. He said at this time he does not believe a management program for wolves is required. Their populations are increasing, however not at the rate many of the "armchair biologists" in this thread are saying. He also said that in 2009 he investigated many reports of wolf attacks on cattle. However, only 2 were confirmed wolf attacks. The problem is a cow dies, farmer comes along and finds wolf tracks or see wolves eating on it, and assumes the wolves killed it. Perhaps wolf attacks on cattle is a more serious issue down in the southern part of the province, but it isn't here.

Furthermore, you may not like my emotional responses, but I do not consider them emotional responses. I consider them facts. By opening up the bush, wolves are being provided with more lanes of travel. They do not need to use nearly as much energy to travel. In turn, they are having way more energy to be able to run down and kill their prey more often. So guess what? It is not an emotional response. It is a fact that the forest being opened up is making it easier for wolves to travel and catch more prey.

There is a chunk of land nearby where I currently have my game camera set up and a bait station. I have also been successful in howling wolves out on two occasions, and having them respond on five occasions. I have been there six times. According to the land owner and the ones that border the area, they lost 30 head of cattle combined this year. A shocking statistic. But the thing is, they didn't have Fish and Wildlife out to prove these were all wolf kills. They just assumed since there were wolves in the area they were to blame.

Sorry if you don't like my responses. However, please keep in mind that we may not see eye to eye on this issue but it does not mean we cannot be civil about it and avoid responses such as yours. I believe the point of this thread is for discussion about a management program. What is the point of having a thread about it if certain views are not allowed?

* Keep in mind as well, I only observe and am aware about the goings on with wolves in this area. I cannot speak for other zones. Sorry if my comments come across as I am speaking for all of Alberta because that is not my intent. Nor is it my intent to make this post sound like an essay.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

I was not going to say anything but I guess I shall in light of a comment such as this one. I was able to speak to a Fish and Wildlife Officer yesterday and obviously the wolf population in Alberta was brought up and talked about. He said at this time he does not believe a management program for wolves is required. Their populations are increasing, however not at the rate many of the "armchair biologists" in this thread are saying. He also said that in 2009 he investigated many reports of wolf attacks on cattle. However, only 2 were confirmed wolf attacks. The problem is a cow dies, farmer comes along and finds wolf tracks or see wolves eating on it, and assumes the wolves killed it. Perhaps wolf attacks on cattle is a more serious issue down in the southern part of the province, but it isn't here.

Furthermore, you may not like my emotional responses, but I do not consider them emotional responses. I consider them facts. By opening up the bush, wolves are being provided with more lanes of travel. They do not need to use nearly as much energy to travel. In turn, they are having way more energy to be able to run down and kill their prey more often. So guess what? It is not an emotional response. It is a fact that the forest being opened up is making it easier for wolves to travel and catch more prey.

There is a chunk of land nearby where I currently have my game camera set up and a bait station. I have also been successful in howling wolves out on two occasions, and having them respond on five occasions. I have been there six times. According to the land owner and the ones that border the area, they lost 30 head of cattle combined this year. A shocking statistic. But the thing is, they didn't have Fish and Wildlife out to prove these were all wolf kills. They just assumed since there were wolves in the area they were to blame.

Sorry if you don't like my responses. However, please keep in mind that we may not see eye to eye on this issue but it does not mean we cannot be civil about it and avoid responses such as yours. I believe the point of this thread is for discussion about a management program. What is the point of having a thread about it if certain views are not allowed?

* Keep in mind as well, I only observe and am aware about the goings on with wolves in this area. I cannot speak for other zones. Sorry if my comments come across as I am speaking for all of Alberta because that is not my intent. Nor is it my intent to make this post sound like an essay.

Many areas in our mountain zones have no new open tracts of land, they have few or no cattle but lately they seem to have no elk either. If nothing is done then the elk herds get to low your precious wolves that are over abundant start to get disease and starve. Why not keep things at the capacity that keeps both animals at a level population?

How many officers do you think are trained to tell if its a wolf killed cow or not? Alot of times by the time a cow is found its pretty much gone. How can they determine what the cause of death is then.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

Sorry if you don't like my responses. However, please keep in mind that we may not see eye to eye on this issue but it does not mean we cannot be civil about it and avoid responses such as yours. I believe the point of this thread is for discussion about a management program. What is the point of having a thread about it if certain views are not allowed?

* Keep in mind as well, I only observe and am aware about the goings on with wolves in this area. I cannot speak for other zones. Sorry if my comments come across as I am speaking for all of Alberta because that is not my intent. Nor is it my intent to make this post sound like an essay.

Lone Wolf,

Like I said in your quote from me, I am happy to hear your opinion. Keep them coming. What did I write that was not civil?

Re. cattle depradation from wolves, I just posted that info. in the above links. Here it is again, http://www.ab-conservation.com/go/ta...A-AR-08-09.pdf
Pg. 45. 145 Confirmed wolf kills over $126,000 paid to ranchers from ACA (76% from hunting licence levies). Yes, many cattle kills will not be found, positively proven to be from a wolf, or reported by the rancher, the problem is even bigger than the stats show.

[Lone_Wolf]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Many areas in our mountain zones have no new open tracts of land, they have few or no cattle but lately they seem to have no elk either. If nothing is done then the elk herds get to low your precious wolves that are over abundant start to get disease and starve. Why not keep things at the capacity that keeps both animals at a level population?

How many officers do you think are trained to tell if its a wolf killed cow or not? Alot of times by the time a cow is found its pretty much gone. How can they determine what the cause of death is then.

They are my precious wolves now? On second thought, that is not even worth my time to respond to.

And I don't disagree with you on keeping both animals at a level population. But as I said, only a couple years ago our whitetail population was a major issue here. Are there going to be different plans in place each year to whack a new animal species down to balance it out with the others? I am looking at the big picture, not just for the next hunting season. You mentioned how wolves having a small supply of food would result in them starving or becoming diseased. That is nature. That is how nature would balance things out. We can totally go and start a management program to bring the wolf population down if need be, but then we just gotta deal with a different animal in another one or two years. And I much prefer having wolves pass through from time to time than having deer come into the yard and rip bales up and spread twine all over. God, I hated cleaning up twine strings! And the worst part was you couldn't even shoot the buggers! Just like children, Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em. At least you can shoot wolves if they are a problem.

I actually asked the Fish Cop that same question as I had no idea how would tell cause of death after the animal has been partially eaten. He said there are a few ways. First off he checks the animals nose. Black bears commonly grab the cows nose with its strong jaws. He also said they check for deep scratch marks along the back. They also check for canine puncture wounds all over the body. Wolves attack starting with the hindquarters of the animal. So he said when they have a cow dead from a predator attack those are the things they look for in determining cause of death. And I'd say if the cow is so stripped of flesh and meat to the point it cannot be investigated, one cattleman is not doing his job in checking his livestock.

[Lone_Wolf]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Lone Wolf,

Like I said in your quote from me, I am happy to hear your opinion. Keep them coming. What did I write that was not civil?

Re. cattle depradation from wolves, I just posted that info. in the above links. Here it is again, http://www.ab-conservation.com/go/ta...A-AR-08-09.pdf
Pg. 45. 145 Confirmed wolf kills over $126,000 paid to ranchers from ACA (76% from hunting licence levies). Yes, many cattle kills will not be found, positively proven to be from a wolf, or reported by the rancher, the problem is even bigger than the stats show.

I just didn't like where you told basically what not to say:

Please don't use inclusive comments like "our eyes". I do not agree with your position.

I see you do not agree with me, but that is the point of discussion. It is for everyone to get their opinions and thoughts out there. Wether you agree with them or not, everyone has one. But perhaps I misunderstood your comment.

And I did read the part about the amount of cattle killed by wolves. And I said it earlier, but I can only speak for this area. I am aware of only what is going on in this area. I cannot speak, and wouldn't feel right, speaking for the rest of the province. Maybe wolves do kill more cattle in other areas, I can't comment. I just know here only 2 kills were confirmed wolf kills last year in this area.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

And I'd say if the cow is so stripped of flesh and meat to the point it cannot be investigated, one cattleman is not doing his job in checking his livestock.

You obviously dont have any idea what a pack of wolves can do in a night. Ive seen many moose, elk and a few cows killed through out the night completely cleaned up by morning.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

You obviously dont have any idea what a pack of wolves can do in a night. Ive seen many moose, elk and a few cows killed through out the night completely cleaned up by morning.

Exactly, I've seen a cow have her calf and come back not 15 minutes later and the calf is long gone. If I hadn't seen the cow calving, I would've never guessed she even had a calf.
At the end of the calving we were down 35 calves, and not from lack of checking.

[wolfkiller]

Lone wolf you dont have a clue, this is a FACT, wolves only consume 30% of what they kill, some kills they will clean right up, but they do hunt for sport on ocassion.Dont believe that fact have a chat with gordie klassen in debolt. You running a bait site and not shooting the wolves are just gonna train the wolves to eat that farmers cattle or horses, there is no way around here a farmer would let a guy run a bait and not shoot the wolves. That is just nonsense. And the wolf population is not on the rise, yeah right, i would suggest spending a little more time in the bush. Do you own cattle? obviously not because when we lose a cow or calf due to wolves we dont even bother to phone F&W because of lack of evidence (pretty much all ate) and lack of knowledge with F&W to determine a wolf kill. I cant believe how some people think, oh and you must be a wolf whisperer, my god anyone and there dog can get a wolf or pack to howl. Just keep taking pictures and hopefully someday you might notice the decrease in wild game.

[wolfkiller]

Lone Wolf i do recall a thread you had created not too long ago where you were posing with a wolf that you had bought off of a trapper, with no fur buying license, the thread got deleted and i know that F&W did investigate, i hope you got charged for your illegal actions, so definately you have never shot a wolf in your life if your buying a wolf from a trapper. And your a self proclaimed wolf "expert". Yeah okay. I suggest you read the Alberta Hunting Rules and Regulations and pick up a copy of the Trapper Regulations and read them at night instead of dreaming of your lovely wolf pictures.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

And I'd say if the cow is so stripped of flesh and meat to the point it cannot be investigated, one cattleman is not doing his job in checking his livestock.

Now that right there is funny!!! He actually said that?

[wolfkiller]

Some ppl, im done on this thread, makes a guy wanna bust some legs when ppl dont have a clue and start spouting off. Blame the cattleman for not checking his cows, like us cattleman are so rich with the high beef price we can afford to lose cattle.

[Browning Jim]

wolfkiller - talespinner:

One minute it's "this is a FACT, wolves only consume 30% of what they kill" and the next, "when we lose a cow or calf due to wolves we dont even bother to phone F&W because of lack of evidence (pretty much all ate)."

Can't have it both ways. Do wolves eat it all up, or just 30%? Which of your yarns are we supposed to believe? Or do you really know?

Maybe you need to spend more time watching your cows AND your "FACTS"

[Vindalbakken]

I think the 30% reference was in regards to whether wolves only kill to eat, or do they kill for the sake of killing. He felt 30% of the time the prey is eaten, the others they kill just because they can. When they eat, they eat, and evidence is gone.

It is my opinion that most predators will kill when they have the opportunity. They will eat if they are hungry.

[Outfitter2]

For my 2 cents worth , it is very interesting to read the various responses to the wolf subject .
I trap a lot and have hung up my share of the critters for sure , and what Lone Wolf says about opening up the bush and providing easy travel lanes compared to what the game travel on , is absolutely true , no questions about it. The trails and cutlines are snowplowed throughout the bush in every direction and the wolves simply follow them until they find an animal to chow down on.
Normally when the wolves make a kill in the bush they will eat until they are bloated , then lay around within close proximity until they can stuff themselves again and/ or the meat is gone. If you jump a pack of wolves who have just gorged themselves they will make themselves puke it up so they can run . This is done in seconds and I have seen it first hand several times.
As for cattle killing , I cannot comment , as I trap deep in the bush . I live on a farm in west central Alta. and have no cattle etc. , but the wolves do live not far away , and do bother the neighbors at calving time. Several are shot each year while the cows/ or elk are calving, but a lot of folks don't realize that black bear are harder on elk calves then wolves ever thought of being.

Having a good discussion is always enlightning and it is good to hear each point of view on the subject .

The reason the SRD is killing off wolves in/near Grande Cache is to try to protect the few remaining caribou in the area, as they're habitat is getting cut up so badly and opened up , there is no place left for them to go and they are easy prey for the wolves in the area. This is proven fact .

[Rantastic]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I think the 30% reference was in regards to whether wolves only kill to eat, or do they kill for the sake of killing. He felt 30% of the time the prey is eaten, the others they kill just because they can. When they eat, they eat, and evidence is gone.

It is my opinion that most predators will kill when they have the opportunity. They will eat if they are hungry.

+1 I read somewhere that a pack of 8 or 9 wolves need to consume a big game animal Per day to keep the pack fed. And I totally believe that for a deer a night... 50 Lbs of meat to feed 1000 Lbs of wolfs a day. Makes sense to me in cold temps for sure they are burnin calories big time. Thats alot of deer/calves over the year.

On the lucky day the pack takes out a 1000 Lb moose. There will be some waste. Or maybe 3 deer walk by the killsite. I doubt very much the wolves are going to say to each other.... Whoa whoa whoa guys, we've killed enough today. Lets let them live this time. So there can easily be alot of waste resulting in that 30% number. I know plenty of ranchers with so much land its impossible to check behind every tree and bush if they looked for a week solid. So carcasses can and will go missing only to be found again and clean bones spread about.

[wolfkiller]

I have no clue i guess about wolves and there facts, huh, you should maybe look back at a thread i posted of some of my wolf pictures, i have shot more than most of you ppl will ever see in your life. They do kill sometimes just to kill.FACT - The Government of Alberta investigated wolf predation of cattle on remote pastures near the Simonette River during 1975-1981. Cattle were counted, classified by sex and age, and monitored for behavior and losses; and wolves were captured, radio-collared and their kills recorded. Although wild ungulates, especially moose, constituted the bulk of the year-round diet of wolves, cattle remains (hair) occurred in 20 percent of 245 summer wolf scats. Four out of every 10 cattle that died from known causes, were killed by wolves, but wolves mauled three for every one killed. Removal of most of the wolves during two winters reduced cattle mortalities. The investigators concluded that wolves were responsible for about 50 percent of the cattle losses on the remote area. READ THAT AGAIN AND AGAIN INCASE YOU DIDNT GET THE POINT BROWNING JIM