Attention land owners please read and respond

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by jtoews80

OK, First off. You will NEVER get permission from me to hunt. I have "ACCESS rights" to over 400 acres of farm land & forest that is owned by my dad, brother and myself. That"ACCESS right" ie ownership costed almost a million dollars. Secondly, we have selectively harvested for almost 10 years and in recent years have harvested several 170-185 B&C bucks, because we have studied our game and herd characteristics and culled accordingly.We are not "rich farmers" we were farmers, now work 400 hours a month on the oilpatch average. Thirdly, the game animals eat a few thousand dollars worth of oats, alfalfa and hay off our windrows and fields each year, hence the abundant population and big racks. They ARE my animals, I feed them. If it were up to me, the licensing system would be the same as South Africa. you get a cheap permit from fish & wildlife and there are X number of tags issued per acre to landowners, stamped with the section number on it. Licence only valid in that township or section and released to the landowners after the annual taxes are paid, then sold by the landowners. It would keep idiots like you off my land and make the whole sport alot more sustainable. We have 1 public Bucks for Wildlife quarter on our mile road and damn near need stoplights during the month of November. We find road shot deer left every year and had people nightlight off our land this year. I usually allow the neighbors to cull anything that has spikes or is wounded(obviously). I turned down the only guy that asked last year and then changed my mind and gave permission for meat animals. Everybody else just cruised the fields and spooked animals I was hunting. It's a **** off.

JT.

Not worth responding to, other than you and Ted Morton ought to get together for a coffee...

Waxy

[jtoews80]

Originally Posted by Waxy

Not worth responding to, other than you and Ted Morton ought to get together for a coffee...

Waxy

Well I admit I posted quite abrasively. However the thread is to landowners and requesting input. I gave it. If you are not a landowner, start another thread.
I'll not bother chipping into another thread like this. I doubt that anything I say or do will help you. You feel that rural landowners owe it to you and are priviledged to own the land. We'll still have people leaving gates open, driving across the alfalfa field and freezing it out. And I'll still be parking a tractor across the access road and calling the game warden.

Good day.

[gunsnreels]

eol

[DAVE]

Wow must be quite the 2 and 1/2 quarters of land to produce several 170-185 b&c bucks

[jtoews80]

AS reflected by the law, I do not own the game animals. In that you are correct. I do feed them, they drink out of our cattle waterers. The population is greatly assisted by our farming operations. In fact, this year we left 30+ bales out to help the deer thro this winter's bitter cold. And you have contributed what to have the right to the game animals that live on our "private" lands????

It may seem absurd to you, but what do you do to have right to them? The European system of landowner/animal owership isn't perfect and puts the sport out of reach of many people, but why should I buy land for you to hunt on and why should I lose stock or crops to somebody who is unlearned and accidentally damages said stock and crops.

AS I already said, the question was to landowners. I wouldn't have nearly as strong of an opinion if there hadn't been years of abuses. It would be great if there was a mutual respect between sportsman and landowner, but that respect is strained by a few bad apples and alot of people that think that for some reason they should have the right.

There you have it, I have presented my opinion intelligently and with viable arguements. If all you can say is "get a grip", or "whatever", you are stating disagreement, I can appreciate that. Please state why, that is what makes a discussion intelligent.

JT.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by jtoews80

but why should I buy land for you to hunt on and why should I lose stock or crops to somebody who is unlearned and accidentally damages said stock and crops.
.

You don't have to let anyone on your land. There is no law saying you have to. And I would never say a landowner has to let anyone onto his land (leases are a different matter). But that's not the same as saying you do, or should, own the wildlife that happens to come on your land. You don't own the air above your land or the oil beneath it either. You paid for the dirt, period. If you had bought rights to everything else including the wildlife you would have paid significantly more than the million dollars you mentioned earlier. I'd sure fight any new law that handed that public resource over to you for free to sell as you like.

[TBark]

jtoews80,
We own a nice quarter of land too.
If we had people approach us & ask to hunt, we may considder letting them on, but the license dictates what they can harvest, not us, & not you.
What would you do if you let a hunter on to cull a spiker, and he shoots a gagger ? Would you charge him ? It wouldn't stick.

TBark

[gunsnreels]

eol

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by jtoews80

AS reflected by the law, I do not own the game animals. In that you are correct. I do feed them, they drink out of our cattle waterers. The population is greatly assisted by our farming operations. In fact, this year we left 30+ bales out to help the deer thro this winter's bitter cold. And you have contributed what to have the right to the game animals that live on our "private" lands????

At least you realize you don't legally own the game animals.

I'm sure they do feed on agricultural crops and drink from your cattle waterers. The thing is, that's part of the deal, that's what you signed up for when you purchased the land. It's what every private landowner in Canada signs up for in exchange for the priviledge of owning land.

I applaud you for feeding the deer, but that in no way makes them yours any more than it would make them "mine" if I was to set out 30 bales of feed on your land.

If you want to minimize the expense of wildlife, improve your farming practices to minimize the crops left behind or vulnerable to feeding on. If that's not possible, there are programs in place to compensate landowners for losses due to wildlife damage.

It may seem absurd to you, but what do you do to have right to them?

I'm a Canadian citizen, that's all it takes. Thank you to our forefathers for having that foresight. It was put in place for exactly this reason -

The European system of landowner/animal owership isn't perfect and puts the sport out of reach of many people,

why should I buy land for you to hunt on and why should I lose stock or crops to somebody who is unlearned and accidentally damages said stock and crops.

You shouldn't. You should buy land for it's agricultural value, it's intrinisic value, and your enjoyment. Allowing others access is your perogative. If you're losing crops or livestock to trespassers, you should follow that up with the authorities.

AS I already said, the question was to landowners. I wouldn't have nearly as strong of an opinion if there hadn't been years of abuses. It would be great if there was a mutual respect between sportsman and landowner, but that respect is strained by a few bad apples and alot of people that think that for some reason they should have the right.

I think you can see by reading this thread, and others like it, that the vast majority of hunters in AB have a great deal of respect for landowners. It's very unfortunate that this fact is continuously overshadowed by the focus on the bad apples.

There you have it, I have presented my opinion intelligently and with viable arguements. If all you can say is "get a grip", or "whatever", you are stating disagreement, I can appreciate that. Please state why, that is what makes a discussion intelligent.

Done.

Waxy

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by jtoews80

Well I admit I posted quite abrasively. However the thread is to landowners and requesting input. I gave it. If you are not a landowner, start another thread.

Actually, it's a thread started by a hunter, looking to improve relations with landowners and work towards a common ground on the important issue of access to private lands. It's a two way street.

I'll not bother chipping into another thread like this. I doubt that anything I say or do will help you. You feel that rural landowners owe it to you and are priviledged to own the land. We'll still have people leaving gates open, driving across the alfalfa field and freezing it out. And I'll still be parking a tractor across the access road and calling the game warden.

Good day.

You've read me wrong jtoews. I don't feel you owe me anything, far from it. You're welcome to put a fence around your entire 400 acres and keep it all to yourself. That's the law, and I respect the law. I do take strong exception to your claim that you own the wildlife on your land however.

While I don't think you're priviledged to own land, I do believe that owning land is a priviledge. Anybody that can afford it can buy land, you don't have to be privileged, that's the beauty of our system. However, land ownership is not a "right" it's technically a priviledge extended to you by the Queen of England.

As for calling the game warden, RCMP, etc... due to abuses of your land, I would encourage you to do so. We need to weed out the "bad apples".

Waxy

Originally Posted by jtoews80

We have 1 public Bucks for Wildlife quarter on our mile road and damn near need stoplights during the month of November.

JT.

We have a section so from one land owner to another,


If you have that much land in that area and do not give out permission, what the heck do you think is going to happen with the public land near yours? Lots of hunters out there that don't own land ya know.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by TBark

jtoews80,
We own a nice quarter of land too.
If we had people approach us & ask to hunt, we may considder letting them on, but the license dictates what they can harvest, not us, & not you.
What would you do if you let a hunter on to cull a spiker, and he shoots a gagger ? Would you charge him ? It wouldn't stick.

TBark

If the guy had permission I would be happy if he shot a gagger. What upsets me is the "meat hunter" that shoots a 2 year old deer that score 140" instead of the spiker or doe standing beside it. That guy would not hunt on my place again.

[jtoews80]

OK, Waxy, dully noted. AS a Canadian you have rights to the game. You are right, whatever rights or oppurtunites a landowner deserves is not the intent of this thread. And yes, I am bitter at the `Bad Apples` they really compromise the whole sport. It isn`t the general hunting population. So, you have convinced me.

I am sure that the public land near ours will again see heavy use next season. Most of the people that use it never get out of their trucks, so if they are hunting there by the same standards they are hunting our land because they crawl thro at 30-50 km and if nobodies watching they shoot.

Now I don`t usually give permission, but will take most anyone that asks with me because I feel it is the best option. I have 3 brothers and my dad, along with me that hunt the same area. So, last year we took about a half dozen people with us out hunting. It was a poor year and the best buck was about a 150 or a touch bigger.

Somebody said what do you expect if you don`t give permission, OK that is fair, but there is alot of public land within the same distance of town. It just happens that the area we live and hunt in has a reputation for producing big bucks and it is almost entirely private land with the exception of that one public quarter.
The sad thing and I guess the thing that really irks me is that last year I was the only person to make footprints on the public quarter and that was checking a shot that a friend we took out missed. It is a public quarter, but it is also foot access. Kinda ironic.

That coupled with the fact that I have a difficult time hunting land I own because somebody else is in effect hunting my land by cruising by really slow and then speeding up when spotting my orange and spooking game I have been scouting and hunting for 3-5 months. And hunting breeding stock that we`ve been sheltering for the past decade, it gets old.

I know they have the right to hunt the public land, it`s fair. It just seems to me that there ought to be something changed to correct this problem. For me, I`ll(along with my brothers and dad) be hunting somewhere else this fall. I may give permission to a couple of parties that I know will respect our land
and that`s all I can do. Sorry to boil over earlier, but this issue bothers me.

JT.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by jtoews80

OK, Waxy, dully noted. AS a Canadian you have rights to the game. You are right, whatever rights or oppurtunites a landowner deserves is not the intent of this thread. And yes, I am bitter at the `Bad Apples` they really compromise the whole sport. It isn`t the general hunting population. So, you have convinced me.

I am sure that the public land near ours will again see heavy use next season. Most of the people that use it never get out of their trucks, so if they are hunting there by the same standards they are hunting our land because they crawl thro at 30-50 km and if nobodies watching they shoot.

Now I don`t usually give permission, but will take most anyone that asks with me because I feel it is the best option. I have 3 brothers and my dad, along with me that hunt the same area. So, last year we took about a half dozen people with us out hunting. It was a poor year and the best buck was about a 150 or a touch bigger.

Somebody said what do you expect if you don`t give permission, OK that is fair, but there is alot of public land within the same distance of town. It just happens that the area we live and hunt in has a reputation for producing big bucks and it is almost entirely private land with the exception of that one public quarter.

The sad thing and I guess the thing that really irks me is that last year I was the only person to make footprints on the public quarter and that was checking a shot that a friend we took out missed. It is a public quarter, but it is also foot access. Kinda ironic.

That coupled with the fact that I have a difficult time hunting land I own because somebody else is in effect hunting my land by cruising by really slow and then speeding up when spotting my orange and spooking game I have been scouting and hunting for 3-5 months. And hunting breeding stock that we`ve been sheltering for the past decade, it gets old.

I know they have the right to hunt the public land, it`s fair. It just seems to me that there ought to be something changed to correct this problem. For me, I`ll(along with my brothers and dad) be hunting somewhere else this fall. I may give permission to a couple of parties that I know will respect our land
and that`s all I can do. Sorry to boil over earlier, but this issue bothers me.

JT.

I understand your frustration, I'm sure I'd be frustrated in your position too.

However, the hunters aren't doing anything illegal by driving the roads in an area known for having large deer, and naturally that's where they're going to go, they aren't going to drive around in areas where there is no chance of seeing deer.

Speeding up when they see you is a jack-ass move, but not illegal.

Essentially, I guess it does boil down to the fact that the animals on your land are not yours, you don't have "dibs" on them. If someone else is driving the roads, moving the animals, spoils your hunt, etc... or legally harvests an animal you don't necessarily approve of, well, that's life. Hunters everywhere deal with that. I realize that probably doesn't do anything to make you feel better about it, but it is the reality of the situation.

Waxy

P.S. It is pretty pathetic that no one is willing to walk a 1/4 section of public land, but if it's as busy as you say, I can think of a few reasons why I wouldn't walk it either, #1 being I don't really want to get shot.

[russian river]

Hmmmm these are interesting posts and I've read them all. As a land owner I agree with the majority of what has been said with a few other issues. As for the Use Respect signs I stopped putting them up I don't put them up for target practice....I'm hoping you don't shoot at everything that is bright orange!!! makes me wonder... I am a guilty land owner who say no to everyone except a couple of personal friends because in the past I have said sorry but the area is being used but the hunters went anyway and ruined a shoot for some other guys who asked first. Ive had wires cut with QUAD TRAILS not just once or twice where they think I won't see them. I've had trenches dug under swathes of grain where a combine tire dropped into (goose hunters). I have given permission to a young fellow to find out the next day that he and his 15 buddies (only he asked never mentioned the others) shot at anything that moved I found dead cranes out in the field. So as for how to ask ..... I'm not sure there is much I can offer you. RR

[AlbertianRancher]

As a Rancher we say no to alot of are land and yes to other land because of our nabouring land owners. as anyone in my town whould know him as soon as his name was said. but off topic we have had lots of hunters ask permisson and we said yes but no atv's or vehicals to be drove on land. and we find out later they have drove all over our feilds and wrecked crops. we have found dead cows with bullet holes as well. and not all hunters are disrespectful towards what we ask but the bad hunters do wreck it for other hunters.why we say alot more no's then yes.

I like the idea of being a friend year round...stop in a few times per year just to see how things are going. I grew up on a farm and more than often I offer up my services, whether is pounding staples or driving a grain truck for day or 2, hey, it gives me an opportunity to enjoy what I like doing the most. I do not own land yet, so permission is a premium for me. I know growing up, sometimes the only time we see guys was during hunting season. Why not shoot the bull a few times during the year with these guys.
I like to bring sausage or what-ever to the farmer's place, or offer up a gift card to a restaurant, hey, it gives them a break from the hard-work for an evening. A bottle of whiskey goes along ways too. I also give a picture of the mount or animal (only if it's a big one) to the family as well. And I usually invite their kids to come along as well to hunt, even if they don't hunt. I've hunted with lots of farmer's kids and the enjoyment they get is incredible.

[dmckay]

I am new to hunting for the 2009 season, and from the city. Maybe that's not the best thing to start off with...lol. I did used to live in the country in BC. After reading some of the posts on here, I am astounded at people thinking they have the right to tell landowner's that they should be able to hunt whatever they want on the property. If someone wants to make their own rules for what they can and cannot do on a piece of property, then they should bust their A#$ and purchase their own property. I have scouted a few areas and in the spring will be going to talk to some landowners. If they choose to let me hunt their properties and have some rules, I will be happy oblige. If they say no, I will thank them for their time and move on.

This is a great thread and has been very informative, especially for a newbie.

[crocket]

Uncle John, that was great and to the point and the truth. Ive nevered asked land owners to hunt big game, thats a respect you have to earn. I have asked to shoot gophers and other problem critters,and over time have granted permission. I agree dont come out thinking u have permision, u have to earn it. thanks John any body with gopher problems feel free to let me know the new BRUNO .22 cal will look after them. (saftey first)

[dmckay]

This may not be the place, as I would rather meet landowner's face to face, but if anyone needs gophers or any other pest species taken care of, I am available.

[dvani]

I've been hunting for a few years now. I was wondering to land owners this is what I do and what else can I do to help me more. Every year around the month of august I drive out to the spot where I hunt to ask permission. I bring all the maps cuz I hunt in between counties. But, what I do is I bring a little binder with a spread sheet and has a bunch of columns like name, zone, archery or rifle. So, what i do is, every landowner i go up to i ask them how there doing. You know make conversation with the guy. When i do ask for permission and if they say yes i fill the spread sheet and i get the landowner to sign it for me. So, then just in case if i run into any problems i have that binder on me. I was just wondering if this is the step in the right direction and what else can i do to improve and get the trust of landowners to allow me to hunt on the land.

[DairyMan7]

Guys its not hard getting permission.....but like stated above, don't be a knuckle head......I've learnt over the years BSing goes a long way....i can't stand to see people asking to hunt a property shooting a ton of birds, or a nice buck or what ever and just leave....give the guy some meat give him a hand on the farm, bring some jerky next time hey bring him/her some tims even. Guys think about it....your with a nice gal you just met and your treating her to a nice dinner, movie, drinks.....candy, flowers, not to mention all that gas....and so on for a couple of days, weeks, even months...(depends how much ya like her i guess) we do all that effort just for what.....WE ALL KNOW........it's the same in hunting....................Finally my best thing i've ever done and i can't take the credit for this one but man does it work......if you know you want to hunt an area this coming spring/fall/winter go to him at the start of the spring or early summer and make a deal with him, offer to walk the edges of his fields for branchs, and tree blow downs and tell him you will remove them free of charge if you could hunt..........Remember guys don't expect to get something for nothing.......
This post is from a fella that had to work hard and convincing people close to Toronto, Ontario to let me hunt their properties...I just recently moved here to Alberta

[ruffneck]

As a landowner I want people to talk to me first and be up front about what they are wanting. I would have no problem helping them out with the county map if they had one. As well I would not like them using my name when they talk to my neighbors, after a few years and I get to know them better I would introduce them to my neighbors if everything was working out. I agree that everyone that is going to hunt needs to be there to ask for permission and notification needs to be made each time they are going to hunt.

777

[Jack&7]

Originally Posted by csummer79

Put it this way if i want to hunt there bad enough i will and a tresspassing ticket wont stop me. Why not allow hunters you own the land but not the animals on it.

I won't waste my time hammering you with names or comments on your intelligence or ethics. It would be pointless. It is just sad to know that you are even out there with the rest of us. It is painfully obvious that you are not a hunter but a poacher. You obviously are only interested in taking a big trophy regardless of procedure, cost or danger to others, just so you can sit there with your buddies and puff out your chest and say,"Yep, boys...looky what I done shot!"



It is guys like you that basically f*$# it up for the rest of us who are willing to do it 'the right way' and love the sport, the challenge, and the satisfaction we get by putting in the time to be successful.

On second thought, I will waste my time...you're an idiot. Ahhh...that feels better!

Now go ahead...you say something.

777

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