Latest Greatest Muledeer Management Plan

[trophyboy]

Thanks catnthehat. I see your kindness towards me continues. According to the new rules of respecting others on the board you should be banned but because you are an internet sensation on here with over 20000 posts you won't and I probably will. I am merely stating facts that all of us already know. I'm not trying to start a fight just making a factual point about how horrible Alberta has become regarding game management and how Alberta residents are being screwed over time and again. Just the simple fact that everyone is continually pointing at landowners and bowhunters being the cause of the problem on this board suggests to me that no one has a clue. I and my family could have easily partaken in landowner tags for the last however many years that it has existed but chose not to simply because as a landowner even I believe it's wrong, but if outfitters can continue to bring foreigners in to make money for themselves on other people's land then why wouldn't I kill a deer every year. When CWD was running rampant it was dumb ssa Alberta residents and SRD, not landowners who were slaughtering everything. If it weren't for landowners there would be no deer left...period. This whole thing is a mess. An easy solution would be to cut tags way back and get off this ridiculous CWD crap that has never worked anywhere. Also, mule deer should only be hunted in this province by residents as there isn't enough to go around for your crooked outfitter buddies and the like, sorry. Alberta is trying to please everyone due to basing this on money generated and they are pleasing no one. What about the deer herds and what about the few residents that actually care????????????????? Many excellent points have been made on here and that's great but nothing will ever change for the better, history has proven that in Alberta.

I would love to get an answer to this one question though: Why do hardworking, tax paying Albertans have to wait longer to be drawn for mule deer but outfitters can get ridiculous amounts of tags putting us to the back of the line?....Anyone?

[BigJon]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

quote licences are normally unlimited or way high. I just used that as a number.

Really?

Help me out here with some examples.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Pleas clarify something for us Waterfowler, so that we may understand where you are coming from.

Are you an Outfitter?

Are you a registered guide?

Does not matter what I am. I am a resident first then that next.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by trophyboy

Thanks catnthehat. I see your kindness towards me continues. According to the new rules of respecting others on the board you should be banned but because you are an internet sensation on here with over 20000 posts you won't and I probably will. I am merely stating facts that all of us already know. I'm not trying to start a fight just making a factual point about how horrible Alberta has become regarding game management and how Alberta residents are being screwed over time and again. Just the simple fact that everyone is continually pointing at landowners and bowhunters being the cause of the problem on this board suggests to me that no one has a clue. I and my family could have easily partaken in landowner tags for the last however many years that it has existed but chose not to simply because as a landowner even I believe it's wrong, but if outfitters can continue to bring foreigners in to make money for themselves on other people's land then why wouldn't I kill a deer every year. When CWD was running rampant it was dumb ssa Alberta residents and SRD, not landowners who were slaughtering everything. If it weren't for landowners there would be no deer left...period. This whole thing is a mess. An easy solution would be to cut tags way back and get off this ridiculous CWD crap that has never worked anywhere. Also, mule deer should only be hunted in this province by residents as there isn't enough to go around for your crooked outfitter buddies and the like, sorry. Alberta is trying to please everyone due to basing this on money generated and they are pleasing no one. What about the deer herds and what about the few residents that actually care????????????????? Many excellent points have been made on here and that's great but nothing will ever change for the better, history has proven that in Alberta.

I would love to get an answer to this one question though: Why do hardworking, tax paying Albertans have to wait longer to be drawn for mule deer but outfitters can get ridiculous amounts of tags putting us to the back of the line?....Anyone?

my post conts doesn't mean jack to the admin here.
If you really want to complain , do it to those who matter, the moderators.

Ads as far as your remarks about my kindest towards you, make no mistake about it if it was not a sarcastic one, I hold absolutely no kindess towards you because your posts are self serving and normally have no merit except in your own eyes.
Cat

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by BigJon

Really?

Help me out here with some examples.

CWD hunts, cull of wt's in 108, cow elk in suffield. All were really high on tags available. Either way if the proposed cwd hunt happens then there will be a crap load of people out shooting up the country.

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

Does not matter what I am. I am a resident first then that next.

He is an Outfitter Walking Buffalo. You're a smart guy...do the math good sir.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

He is an Outfitter Walking Buffalo. You're a smart guy...do the math good sir.

What should it matter what I am. I for one am actually looking out for our wildlife and want to see it get back to what is was back in the early 90's as I want that for everybody to see and experience. So how does it affect anything if I am an outfitter or not?

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

What should it matter what I am. I for one am actually looking out for our wildlife and want to see it get back to what is was back in the early 90's as I want that for everybody to see and experience. So how does it affect anything if I am an outfitter or not?

Unfortunately we will never see what "use" to be the norm while out in the field enjoying our passions...

Miss management and the short sighted visions have basically ruined this resource for our future generations to experience what was the norm decades ago..

Pipe dream for those in our sport to dream of future opportunities as we have already destroyed the framework of management of many resources for all Alberta residents to enjoy..

[J D]

Alberta is not that bad for management compared to many other provs. It is more so behind because of how fast the population increased.

The fight many residents want with outfitters really is not going to get big results even if you succeed. The true fight for Alberta residents should have at this time is having Outfitters committing multiple offences held accountable. Keeping outfitter tags at a reasonable number is the other. Guiding has little impact on residents if it is managed properly. If you go forward with reasonable demands you can get results but an out and out fight with an industry is not a good way to start and will most likely achieve nothing.

A well managed Outfitter industry that is held accountable for violations is a better goal for residents. The truth of the matter is most outfitters are just trying to make a living and a small portion are really an issue.

No, I am not a guide or outfitter.

Non residents being able to apply for draws in the same pool as residents is a bigger issue. Resident opportunity is effected by this more than outfitter tags. This is one of your biggest issues.

With the lack of wait time involved to hunt as an Alberta resident there is big abuse here by temp residents.

Improving the last 2 issues will get greater results for Alberta residents than fighting outfitters. There are lots of examples out there that can be used to show why these are changes that should be made. They are 2 issues that you can fight with a lot of support probably even from the outfitters you have issues with.

Alberta residents need to pick there fights wisely and that way you will get results. Sometimes the easier fight will give you more to benefit from in the end.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

What should it matter what I am. I for one am actually looking out for our wildlife and want to see it get back to what is was back in the early 90's as I want that for everybody to see and experience. So how does it affect anything if I am an outfitter or not?

Unfortunately, when money is involved, it usually becomes a huge factor in people's opinions, on topics such as this one. People tend to choose the path that results in the greatest financial reward for themselves.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I am surprised no one has brought up the "hunter host" program.....so I will mention it

LC

[J D]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I am surprised no one has brought up the "hunter host" program.....so I will mention it

LC

Nothing wrong with a host program for species that are not on draw. Only an issue when it effects limited opportunities .

But you will always find hunters who are against everything

Now if the hunting community learned to work together for realistic goals they might get somewhere.

But it seems to be normal just to try and fight everything and achieve very little.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unfortunately, when money is involved, it usually becomes a huge factor in people's opinions, on topics such as this one. People tend to choose the path that results in the greatest financial reward for themselves.

Well I sure am not. like I have stated I am looking out for our wildlife first. Most cant see past the word "Outfitter".

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I am surprised no one has brought up the "hunter host" program.....so I will mention it

LC

This is another thing that needs to be changed.

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

This is another thing that needs to be changed.

I would only assume that an outfitter would find fault in a hunter host program because it takes cash from his pocket.
As a resident, the only fault I see in the program is it allows non-residents to hunt animals that should only be available to residents.

[Pudelpointer]

JD and LC, glad you both brought up the "issue" of non-resident Canadian hunters hunting under the hunter host program. I have been waiting.


Please everyone, go have look at the information posted by Walking Buffalo that came from ESRD. It clearly identifies the percentage of Antlerred Mule Deer, Trophy Antelope and Antlerred Elk tags that were purchased by Non-Resident Canadians in 2012 (possibly an average in the period 2008-2012).

It is consistently below 2%, and most areas are well below 1%!!!! NRC hunters under the Hunter Host program have virtually NO EFFECT on the number of draws available to resident hunters. The issue is a non-issue.


But hey, if people want to keep believing in fantasy boogie-men, go right ahead.

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

This is another thing that needs to be changed.

Why does the hunter host program need to be changed? If stuffs not on draw then who cares? Does it need to be changed because its taking money out of your pocket?

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

JD and LC, glad you both brought up the "issue" of non-resident Canadian hunters hunting under the hunter host program. I have been waiting.


Please everyone, go have look at the information posted by Walking Buffalo that came from ESRD. It clearly identifies the percentage of Antlerred Mule Deer, Trophy Antelope and Antlerred Elk tags that were purchased by Non-Resident Canadians in 2012 (possibly an average in the period 2008-2012).

It is consistently below 2%, and most areas are well below 1%!!!! NRC hunters under the Hunter Host program have virtually NO EFFECT on the number of draws available to resident hunters. The issue is a non-issue.


But hey, if people want to keep believing in fantasy boogie-men, go right ahead.

Bingo.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I didn't say hunter host was good or bad....I just mentioned that it had not yet been mentioned

LC

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

Well I sure am not. like I have stated I am looking out for our wildlife first. Most cant see past the word "Outfitter".

I think the word is non-residents. Tags should not be available to them if priority is over 3. Or only available if they are general tags.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I didn't say hunter host was good or bad....I just mentioned that it had not yet been mentioned

LC

I know LC, but we are not supposed to single out anyone.... I am sure you know where I am going.

[J D]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

JD and LC, glad you both brought up the "issue" of non-resident Canadian hunters hunting under the hunter host program. I have been waiting.


Please everyone, go have look at the information posted by Walking Buffalo that came from ESRD. It clearly identifies the percentage of Antlerred Mule Deer, Trophy Antelope and Antlerred Elk tags that were purchased by Non-Resident Canadians in 2012 (possibly an average in the period 2008-2012).

It is consistently below 2%, and most areas are well below 1%!!!! NRC hunters under the Hunter Host program have virtually NO EFFECT on the number of draws available to resident hunters. The issue is a non-issue.


But hey, if people want to keep believing in fantasy boogie-men, go right ahead.

No doubt the number of non res drawn will not be really high. Resident applicants will always out number non residents and most residents will have higher priority. A lot of non residents don't even know they can apply for draws in Alberta because non residents cannot apply for draws in their home prov. This is slowly becoming known do to the internet and the amount of new Alberta residents informing friends back home. I can see the % having a small increase over the years. I personally know 23 BC residents that have just started applying in Alberta do to family informing them it is possible.

Huge issue no but it is an impact on resident opportunity.

It is a personal belief that residents should have priority on species of limited opportunity. This is common practice in most areas.


The real issue is the ease of hunting as an Alberta resident do to no wait time. It is actually really easy to get a resident license. There are guys who even get issued a resident hunting license with no proof of even taking a hunters Ed program.

Hunting as an Alberta resident I never even had to show proof of hunters Ed training just bought a win card. I do have my hunters Ed since a kid though. I have met others who were issued licenses without ever taking a hunters Ed course in any prov.

I have hunted Alberta under the host program as a non resident as well. As a non resident under the host program I have had places issue me a resident license in the past. I corrected the clerks mistake twice on different hunts. Many would not be that honest.

Lots of issues in Alberta regards to the ease of getting a resident hunting license.

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

JD and LC, glad you both brought up the "issue" of non-resident Canadian hunters hunting under the hunter host program. I have been waiting.


Please everyone, go have look at the information posted by Walking Buffalo that came from ESRD. It clearly identifies the percentage of Antlerred Mule Deer, Trophy Antelope and Antlerred Elk tags that were purchased by Non-Resident Canadians in 2012 (possibly an average in the period 2008-2012).

It is consistently below 2%, and most areas are well below 1%!!!! NRC hunters under the Hunter Host program have virtually NO EFFECT on the number of draws available to resident hunters. The issue is a non-issue.


But hey, if people want to keep believing in fantasy boogie-men, go right ahead.

The non-res AMD tags in 134 is 17%. Don't know how many of them used HH.

[Pudelpointer]

JD I agree 100% with your comments regarding residency requirements and abuse of the system. This situation MUST be addressed.

But, the Hunter Host program is simply NOT an issue when discussing MD in AB. Are we, as Albertan's, not willing to share 1% of our opportunities with our fellow Canadians, the absolute vast majority of which are our family member or closest friends? Are we really that selfish?

I'm not.

(JD this part is not directed at you)
I have been lucky enough to hunt and fish in other places, and other countries. The question becomes: how insular do we want to be? Are we only concerned that too many foreigners are hunting in our province? Or are we concerned to many non-Albertans are hunting here? What about other Albertans? Too many "new" Albertans?

I hear a lot of complaining about hunters from out of area... too many, I believe the term is, "citiots" out in "our" rural areas?

How about we cut the selfish whining and come up with practical ideas, you know, ideas that help to make the system fair for everyone?

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by missingtwo

The non-res AMD tags in 134 is 17%. Don't know how many of them used HH.

I would suggest none. However, I don't know that for sure but will endeavor to find out.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

JD I agree 100% with your comments regarding residency requirements and abuse of the system. This situation MUST be addressed.

This IMHO should be one of the first things fixed....that and a minimum wait to be deemed an eligible resident hunter.

I think these two things are more important than many of the other gripes folks have.

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

What should it matter what I am. I for one am actually looking out for our wildlife and want to see it get back to what is was back in the early 90's as I want that for everybody to see and experience. So how does it affect anything if I am an outfitter or not?

It matters if you want to have any credibility, Justin. Especially since you exclaimed while posting under previously banned profiles to having obtained a Landowner tag as a farmhand, and that the Outfitting industry must be cut back.

In the last few days you have spouted that Landowners, Residents and Hunter Hosted NR all need to have their allocation cut back or eliminated because they are decimating the resource, while advocating that the Outfitter allocations are just fine. Let's not forget that you feel hunting with an Atlatl and Spear in unethical. And yet you claim to be an advocate for the hunting community?


You appear committed (no pun intended) to having people take your opinion seriously. That can only happen when people develop some knowledge of who you are.


Waterfowler, do you agree with the example set by the ABA to expel members that violate the Wildlife Act? Shouldn't APOS do likewise?

[J D]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

JD I agree 100% with your comments regarding residency requirements and abuse of the system. This situation MUST be addressed.

But, the Hunter Host program is simply NOT an issue when discussing MD in AB. Are we, as Albertan's, not willing to share 1% of our opportunities with our fellow Canadians, the absolute vast majority of which are our family member or closest friends? Are we really that selfish?

I'm not.

If it was done across Canada the same way I would probably have no issue with it at all. Harder to be excepting when most provs keep non residents out of draws.

Would be a lot more excepting of a non resident draw run similar to how sheep is done.

Residents and non residents in the same draw pool is my bigger issue

[Pudelpointer]

I don't know why we are even having this discussion! If ESRD would just quit secretly transplanting wolves, cougars, grizzlies and velociraptors back onto the prairies, there would be plenty of trophy MD for everyone.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by missingtwo

The non-res AMD tags in 134 is 17%. Don't know how many of them used HH.

How did you come up with this number, for what year, 2013?


FYI, NR-HH are included in the Resident Allowable Harvest allocation, not the NR Outfitter Allocation.