Paid Hunting

[trike_flyer]

I too do not support payed access to hunt. Just for the sake of bringing it up it goes in, how about the public areas in private land? You know the water body in the middle of a field that has water ways through it. If I recall right the water is public area, includes all water ways and flood ways, and is crown to the high water mark.

Using this case, you go up the stream into the land owners land but stay on the water so you are still on the crown area, read boat. Set out your decoys in the water and have a great duck hunt till the owner comes out yelling of you being there.

Are you going to pay him for being on water you have the right to? I don't think so. Correct me if I am wrong but this is a possible situation.

Just something to think about.

TF

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

I am a land owner and agree that we should be able to charge for hunting rights on our land.In the past guides used my property and charge $6500.00 for there guided white tail hunts and I never received a penny.It was sure nice to have an alfalfa field to hunt at 100% at my expense. I asked hunters to help and earn the hunting privileges and I was laughed at!! Well now I'm going to have the last laugh now!! My farm is a registered business and hunting on it is going to come with a price. How many of you on this site have businesses and give stuff for free.I sure don't get a free tire repair or a free power bill,why should you get to use my land for free when I pay for all my farm expenses and nurture the land.I keep a very rich ecosystem and habitat for the wildlife.No cattle grazing and insecticide sprays allowed. My biggest thing is I farm with wildlife and very strong in protecting there habitat!!!! In reading alot of the posts in this site is everyone is only focused on the deer,what about the ladybugs,bees and natural plants that are disappearing at alarming rates. Remember a healthy ecosystem is the most important thing and the wildlife will come.

Animals are not yours. If you don't want them there put a 12' fence around it to keep them out. Why should you make a dime off of our animals? I also think all game farms should be illegal in Alberta too. Animals eating your crop is a cost of doing business so don't say you feed them as they would eat there even if you grew nothing. As for outfitting if you don't like it don't let them on. So what makes it ok for you to need to charge for access? Were is your farm?

[landowner]

I think it is selfish of both the hunters and AB govt. to think landowners should supply habitat and access for free. With the shortage of conservation officers I guess we are supposed to supply policing as well.... only in Alberta..

[missingtwo]

Who said you have to supply habitat? Who said you have to allow access? If I owned land, I would think twice about policing. There is laws against that.
If you don't want wildlife on your land, do something about it. E.g. allow hunting, build a high fence, go scare them away, or.... lobby to get paid for damage that they do. Hmmmm, I wonder which one of these choices are the easiest and most profitable???
I know plenty of landowners, friends with some, aquaintances with others, some that are just recognizable. NOT ONE of them are in favor of paid access. They all simply, just want to know who is on their land. The more people they allow, the more eyes there are watching for wrong doing. A good example of this is owners who have had a history of posting their land and then removing the signs and allowing access. Way less trespassing and damage.

[AtimoseMan]

Message for waterfowler1969 - to answer your questions
-Animals are not yours - where did I say that they were??
-Why should I make a dime? - Why not my farm is a business and I have the full right to the habitat that I nurture. Picking berries,wild mushrooms,wild flowers,fire wood,rocks,trees and all the wildlife. I want to make one thing clear,I don't hunt.
- Why charge?? Why not my farm is a business and I'm a business man.Also for my livestock that in the past got shot by hunters and never got compensated for. You will pay now buddy! $$$$$$
Where is your farm?? Well its none of your business because I know your kind and I don't want my fences cut.I deal with hunters every year with attitudes, that think they own the country.They think there hunting licenses come with land titles.
-Fence your land with 12 ft fence! - Why would I want to disturb the wildlife ability to free range normally.All wildlife,gophers,deer,mice,beaver,muskrats,moose,b lue birds,woodpeckers,ect are very welcome on my land and not looking down a gun barrel of some people that want to shoot every thing they see.There are alot of these guy's and I use the term of TAKERS!! TAKERS do nothing for wildlife but squawk alot. I get pouched alot and these guy's with there night vision scopes and binoculars always hanging around. Ya the one hunter bragging how he got a 184 BC off my field and he sure was proud of it at the horn show. The fish cops and RCMP are on this person and when he slips up were going to hang him in the court room next time!!
- OH!! waterfowler1969 - I would like to take you up on a challenge that this May long weekend for the 3 full days to come work on my farm for 16 hours a day like me on picking rocks and roots by hand,working the field,seeding,and see if your attitude will change.Sorry there is no fishing,eating hot dogs around the camp fire with a beer in your lawn chair. Hey wait a minute I will buy you a beer!!

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

Message for waterfowler1969 - to answer your questions
-Animals are not yours - where did I say that they were??
-Why should I make a dime? - Why not my farm is a business and I have the full right to the habitat that I nurture. Picking berries,wild mushrooms,wild flowers,fire wood,rocks,trees and all the wildlife. I want to make one thing clear,I don't hunt.
- Why charge?? Why not my farm is a business and I'm a business man.Also for my livestock that in the past got shot by hunters and never got compensated for. You will pay now buddy! $$$$$$
Where is your farm?? Well its none of your business because I know your kind and I don't want my fences cut.I deal with hunters every year with attitudes, that think they own the country.They think there hunting licenses come with land titles.
-Fence your land with 12 ft fence! - Why would I want to disturb the wildlife ability to free range normally.All wildlife,gophers,deer,mice,beaver,muskrats,moose,b lue birds,woodpeckers,ect are very welcome on my land and not looking down a gun barrel of some people that want to shoot every thing they see.There are alot of these guy's and I use the term of TAKERS!! TAKERS do nothing for wildlife but squawk alot. I get pouched alot and these guy's with there night vision scopes and binoculars always hanging around. Ya the one hunter bragging how he got a 184 BC off my field and he sure was proud of it at the horn show. The fish cops and RCMP are on this person and when he slips up were going to hang him in the court room next time!!
- OH!! waterfowler1969 - I would like to take you up on a challenge that this May long weekend for the 3 full days to come work on my farm for 16 hours a day like me on picking rocks and roots by hand,working the field,seeding,and see if your attitude will change.Sorry there is no fishing,eating hot dogs around the camp fire with a beer in your lawn chair. Hey wait a minute I will buy you a beer!!

First thing I grew up on a ranch and farmed land on the neighbours place so I know way more than you think. As for all wildlife on the land you got for free. You don't own any of them. Myself and every other Albertan do. So why should I have to pay you for anything to hunt an animal you don't own. You and all landowners that say oh poor me and I need to be payed to supply habitat. That is hilarious. How about the government pull all leases and quit giving all freebies to landowners and producers. I bet then you would more than whine. Heck I bet you will loose your farm an be just like most and live in the city. Oh and by the way I have done many things for our wildlife. I don't just shoot everything I see. You let me know the time and place and I will show you what hard work looks like. I bet I out work you then I will buy you a beer.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by landowner

I think it is selfish of both the hunters and AB govt. to think landowners should supply habitat and access for free. With the shortage of conservation officers I guess we are supposed to supply policing as well.... only in Alberta..

Lol. Must have your land given to you.

[grinr]

Bottom line is,paid access is a slippery slope that once we start sliding down,there's no climbing back.Do we want to "Americanize" hunting in Alberta.....I spose some stakeholders do?
What about all the constant lip service we give to introducing the next generation of young hunters to the outdoor heritage?Paid access will make it even more discouraging for youngsters to even think about getting started.Eventually,there will be nobody left to give a rats azz about hunting in Alberta,other then the wealthy foreigners and the outfitters/landowners that cater to to them.
And as to slippery slopes,where does it end?Do we allow paid access only on private titled land,or does it extend to grazing and ag leased land?And if grazing/ag lease holders can charge access to CROWN land,as mentioned earlier in the topic,just about every square inch of Alberta is under some disposition of some sort or another,be it lumber, mining,O&G,gravel...and on and on...So if the farmers/ranchers can charge access,ya don't think the lumber and oil companies aren't gonna cry bloody murder to do the same?

On the one hand,I somewhat agree with a farmer,rancher,or anybody for that matter and their private property rights,to use and share as they see fit.If one wants to turn a 1/4 section into a motocross track,and charge riders a daily or seasonal user fee,I don't imagine anybody would think that is unreasonable?On the other hand,there is something that just seems fundamentally wrong with leasing exclusive hunting rights to the highest bidder and excluding so many average Joe's from enjoying the outdoor heritage that this country was founded upon.There's already enough underhanded,shady,and outright illegal outfitter/landowner deals in place in Alberta at the present.It seems to me that these interest groups are looking to legitimize it,and hog ALL of the best ground for their clients?Do you really think any farmers/ranchers will continue to allow free access to respectful hunters just because many of them have done so for years,if they know they can legally lease the hunting rights at say $1000/quarter to any of dozens of well funded outfitters?Think again.Theyd be foolish not to,no?And the $$ is nothing to outfitters,they'll simply adjust the price of hunts accordingly to cover the hunting leases.
That leaves you and I and Joe Average hunter scrambling to form hunt clubs and lock up land of our own under lease so we'll have a place to hunt.Then,as I said at the beginning of this post,there's no turning back up this slippery slope,as land has a new value-added revenue stream.....no different then an outfitter that buys up allocations with the expectation that they will pay off,you can't really devalue or take those away.So too will the price of land be artificially inflated when people buy otherwise "worthless" land for the hunting rights,they will scream and fight tooth and nail to keep paid access in place,there's no going back ever,even once we realize paid access was a mistake....too late/too much money at stake.
Welcome to the 51st State of Alberta.

[IR_mike]

^^^^^Good post grinr.

[landowner]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

Lol. Must have your land given to you.

Wrong again.. Plenty of sweat and borrowed money got me my land. Maybe that is why I feel obliged to maintain habitat, police and protect it,and feel I should benefit from hunters who want to access it.

[Hagar]

I just love the attitudes on here.As a group you feel you should have everything your way.I have read on here how landowners have no rights to make rules to access,,should not be allowed landowner tags,keep the best animals for them selves,and yet figure you should have free reign to hunt after you slam them on this forum.If I was a landowner I would really have second thoughts about allowing hunters access.How about I come in to your home and use it as I see fit,because you are saying I have to allow you to do this to my home.As for a tax credit,I would like to see you go to the bank to get a loan you can't a ford and tell them you have a tax credit.We all have to pay to enter the parks,prime habitat for wildlife of all kinds,and yet if it's private land a landowner is expected to allow free access.You think paid access only applies to hunting and only effects,as is aimed at,hunters.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by Hagar

I just love the attitudes on here.As a group you feel you should have everything your way.I have read on here how landowners have no rights to make rules to access,,should not be allowed landowner tags,keep the best animals for them selves,and yet figure you should have free reign to hunt after you slam them on this forum.If I was a landowner I would really have second thoughts about allowing hunters access.How about I come in to your home and use it as I see fit,because you are saying I have to allow you to do this to my home.As for a tax credit,I would like to see you go to the bank to get a loan you can't a ford and tell them you have a tax credit.We all have to pay to enter the parks,prime habitat for wildlife of all kinds,and yet if it's private land a landowner is expected to allow free access.You think paid access only applies to hunting and only effects,as is aimed at,hunters.

You don't have to allow any access to your land. It's yours. But if you do, you can't charge for it. That's just the law. If you want to make money off hunters, think about other services they would be looking for,

[honda450]

Originally Posted by landowner

That's true, wildlife does belong to the people. What landowners want is to be able to charge for the ACCESS. Just like they can charge for access for photographs, berry picking, hiking, as well as gas and oil.

You actually charge people for access to your land to take pictures and wild berry picking?

If so. WOW that's the height of all greed.

[Hagar]

So your saying that I can make,my own rules for what you have to do on my land,make it so you have to use my services in order to hunt and your ok that with that.But can't charge for access.Is that not paid access in disguise?

Or you would rather lose access then pay a small fee?I know that some will take advantage of it but you lump all landowners into one group and paint them as greedy money grabbers looking for handouts,and yet get upset when the same thing is done in respects to hunters.

You can't have it both ways and the way this thread is going your just making it harder for landowners to give hunters anything.

[Hagar]

Honda450 I believe the point being made is the park system does and they are public properties but access to private lands should be free.

Again calling a landowner greedy,and yet you want free access to what you want.

[Hagar]

Just because they can doesn't mean they do,the only landowner that I know of that does is the government,but hey that's ok.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by Hagar

So your saying that I can make,my own rules for what you have to do on my land,make it so you have to use my services in order to hunt and your ok that with that.But can't charge for access.Is that not paid access in disguise?

Or you would rather lose access then pay a small fee?I know that some will take advantage of it but you lump all landowners into one group and paint them as greedy money grabbers looking for handouts,and yet get upset when the same thing is done in respects to hunters.

You can't have it both ways and the way this thread is going your just making it harder for landowners to give hunters anything.

I don't make the laws, and you get to decide if you "give" hunters anything on your land. If you decided that charging for access is the way you want to go, I and I assume most of the guys on this site would just choose to go somewhere else. I was only suggesting that there are other LEGAL ways to make a buck. And yes, I would rather loose all access than pay a fee to you sir.

[AtimoseMan]

Landowner - I'm with you on this on about borrowing sweet money like others should do. I was smart with my money in the past by saving enough to purchase the land I own. There was a lot of sacrifice that went along with it.I don't own the big boat,5th wheel trailer,quads,lake lot, and a fancy truck like others. I lived low and stayed within my means. I treasure my property and look after my interest.As for a rich ecosystem makes this property more valuable in the market. A lot of people are looking for this type of rich land.
Waterfowler - I do wonder why you say you were raised on a ranch! Hum!! I have to admit I have a relation that grew up on a farm and now lives in Calgary for the past 20 years. Even though she was barn raised,she turned into a city-it now.As for me getting subsidized I never seen any of this money your accusing me of.
I find it very surprising that you are against me preserving habitat for wildlife.As commented for me to 12 ft fence this land and drive out the wildlife,I find this very odd coming from a hunter.You want me to make these animals leave there home that I set aside for them. Instead of making them leave there home how about you leave your home in this -30C weather and how would you like this????
As for the comment of using a quarter section for motor cross. Hey what ever's your gig. Look at the prime farm land used for golf courses.I don't here anyone swak about paying the green fees. Load and behold pay a farmer for hunting access!!!
Any way waterfowler1969 you are just to Hilarious!! Hey my challenge for you is still on for the long weekend in May. I'm going to call your poker hand!!

[Hagar]

12dlt

Again you say it's fine to charge for what ever services I feel you would require to hunt on private land because it is legal.But to charge for access is not just because it is not legal even when these other services are just a way around the law.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by Hagar

12dlt

Again you say it's fine to charge for what ever services I feel you would require to hunt on private land because it is legal.But to charge for access is not just because it is not legal even when these other services are just a way around the law.

That is correct. Not my laws. You want to put a lemonade stand at the gate and charge for it, perfect. You want to charge to go through the gate to hunt, not so perfect.

[Hagar]

So why not call it what it is and be done with it?Then everyone knows what's happening.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by Hagar

So why not call it what it is and be done with it?Then everyone knows what's happening.

I think your missing the point, you still can't say if you don't buy my lemonade you can't hunt here. That's offside too. You can't charge people to hunt on your land. Period. End of discussion. You can lobby the Gov. to change the laws, but be prepared for a expensive fight.

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

Landowner - I'm with you on this on about borrowing sweet money like others should do. I was smart with my money in the past by saving enough to purchase the land I own. There was a lot of sacrifice that went along with it.I don't own the big boat,5th wheel trailer,quads,lake lot, and a fancy truck like others. I lived low and stayed within my means. I treasure my property and look after my interest.As for a rich ecosystem makes this property more valuable in the market. A lot of people are looking for this type of rich land.
Waterfowler - I do wonder why you say you were raised on a ranch! Hum!! I have to admit I have a relation that grew up on a farm and now lives in Calgary for the past 20 years. Even though she was barn raised,she turned into a city-it now.As for me getting subsidized I never seen any of this money your accusing me of.
I find it very surprising that you are against me preserving habitat for wildlife.As commented for me to 12 ft fence this land and drive out the wildlife,I find this very odd coming from a hunter.You want me to make these animals leave there home that I set aside for them. Instead of making them leave there home how about you leave your home in this -30C weather and how would you like this????
As for the comment of using a quarter section for motor cross. Hey what ever's your gig. Look at the prime farm land used for golf courses.I don't here anyone swak about paying the green fees. Load and behold pay a farmer for hunting access!!!
Any way waterfowler1969 you are just to Hilarious!! Hey my challenge for you is still on for the long weekend in May. I'm going to call your poker hand!!

You are not a legitimate landowner. From everything you have posted I have no doubt you are simply stirring the pot. If you are in fact a 'landowner'....you own nothing more than 1 quarter. 99% of Landowners (including myself) appreciate and understand what the hunting community does for our wildlife.....and frankly, the hunting community does more for the protection of our wildlife in this province than any one landowner that is 'improving habitat' ever will. You are so far out in left field its embarrassing to think I could potentially be lumped in with you. You are doing nothing more than reacting without thinking logically before coming to a logical decision. Post your land. Do not allow access. Fence it if you so choose. Curse and swear at every hunter that rolls up your driveway.....but NEVER under any circumstance think that turning people off of the hunting lifestyle, which you would be doing in charging a monetary fee for access, will ever benefit you as a landowner. I cannot stress how idiotic your posts are.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

You are not a legitimate landowner. From everything you have posted I have no doubt you are simply stirring the pot. If you are in fact a 'landowner'....you own nothing more than 1 quarter. 99% of Landowners (including myself) appreciate and understand what the hunting community does for our wildlife.....and frankly, the hunting community does more for the protection of our wildlife in this province than any one landowner that is 'improving habitat' ever will. You are so far out in left field its embarrassing to think I could potentially be lumped in with you. You are doing nothing more than reacting without thinking logically before coming to a logical decision. Post your land. Do not allow access. Fence it if you so choose. Curse and swear at every hunter that rolls up your driveway.....but NEVER under any circumstance think that turning people off of the hunting lifestyle, which you would be doing in charging a monetary fee for access, will ever benefit you as a landowner. I cannot stress how idiotic your posts are.

You are now officially my favorite poster.

Just would add don't ask taxpayers to pay for damage done by wildlife if you have banned hunting on your land.

[Hagar]

12dlt

The point I was making is landowners can,and many do,have conditions or rules that yo must fallow in regards to hunting.What's to stop them from making them to such that their "services" must be used? As you say it legal,but is really just a way around the law.And as you said,you would just go some where else.It still boils down to paid access,does it not?

[elkhunter11]

I come from a family that farmed for many years. We allowed many people to access our land to hunt, and we also hunted on other people's land as well. To even mention charging for access to my family would have had everyone looking you, as if you had two heads. There were some people that were not welcome on our land, but receiving payment from them, wouldn't change that at all. A landowner has the right to allow who he pleases to hunt on his property, and to deny anyone for any reason that he chooses, but I hope that I never see the day, that paid access for hunting is allowed in Alberta.

[AtimoseMan]

JRsMav - You should get your facts straight before you post.First of all I'm a legit farmer with multy quarters and run a farming operation. Your barking up a tree with your statements. There is lots of crown land out there,I tell everyone that!!

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by Hagar

12dlt

The point I was making is landowners can,and many do,have conditions or rules that yo must fallow in regards to hunting.What's to stop them from making them to such that their "services" must be used? As you say it legal,but is really just a way around the law.And as you said,you would just go some where else.It still boils down to paid access,does it not?

Hager, Elkhunters points echo my sentiments on the subject. I feel your pain I guess but paid access is not cure. I help out the ranchers in the area I have permission when I can, but for me it's only a half hour drive, for others, it's not as practical. I think good hunter/landowner relations is the answer and those are relationships that just have to be developed over time. Most of us hunters respect your land, the wildlife and the laws, find those of us who do, grant us permission, and you should be ok. We will help find fences that are down, gates that are left open and anybody trespassing for you. Might even share a beer with you when the day is over.

[fish gunner]

Our system is based on the right of free roaming in the early days. now time, greed and *****s on both sides of the fence have eroded the rights of all canadians. The presumption of innocence is the basis of this great system .
I have no issue with a land owners not allowing access (though it pains me). I will fight tooth and nail to stop paid access. It is the corruption of the public ownership of wildlife in is entirety. If we stood up to the db hunters that create poor land owner relations this issue would not even exist imo . No one ever paid for a meat deer.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

JRsMav - You should get your facts straight before you post.First of all I'm a legit farmer with multy quarters and run a farming operation. Your barking up a tree with your statements. There is lots of crown land out there,I tell everyone that!!

I have skimmed, read, and breezed by this thread for a few days and watched as the rants escalated.
I'm trying to understand this.
You want hunters to pay for access your land to hunt animals you do not own but that are damaging your crops, am I correct?
And if they don't want to pay they can hunt on crown land, correct?
If so, how does that help your crop damage problem?
Cat