Should Crossbows be Allowed in Archery Only Season? 2ND POLL!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

An interesting question for a poll would be "If I don't currently bowhunt, would I buy a crossbow if they were allowed to be used in the regular archery season."

An important question to ask those who are in support of Crossbows in the Archery Only season is....

"What is the number one reason why you want to use a crossbow in the Archery season?"

[motox208]

i think the common response would be : "im too lazy to practice shooting a bow, and/or it is too challenging to harvest an animal with all the movement involved with drawing a bow back."

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I don't get it, you set up this poll, and you don't like the results. So you're going to reword it to try and get the results you want? Or am I missing something?

No, not at all....lol. The results are pretty much what I expected when I started it however my opinion is that if it was started now instead of 3 years ago it would be different. A lot has changed, For example:

Now that bowhunters and rifle hunters are in the same draw for mulies in some wmu's and the general archery season is gone, it doesn't really matter how you shoot your deer whether it be bow, crossbow, muzzle loader, rifle, shotgun or spear......or maybe I'm missing something here.

With that in mind and without having to give anything up from the archery only season, would people still be so strongly opposed to allowing people to hunt with them?

I don't think that crossbows need to be included for all species in all WMU's but allowing them for use in places like what's happened now with the mulie draws is a perfect example of where they could be with no impact on anyone.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by motox208

i think the common response would be : "im too lazy to practice shooting a bow, and/or it is too challenging to harvest an animal with all the movement involved with drawing a bow back."

Rather than dumb rhetoric,

truthful answers to this question could lead to finding solutions that will be acceptable to the vast majority of the hunting community.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

"What is the number one reason why you want to use a crossbow in the Archery season?"

You first.....

Now that bowhunters and rifle hunters are in the same draw for mulies in some wmu's and the general archery season is gone, it doesn't really matter how you shoot your deer whether it be bow, crossbow, muzzle loader, rifle, shotgun or spear in the appropriate seasons.

I understand the issue of bowhunters not wanting to give anything up when it was general but what would be the reason to not want them now?

[Salavee]

As I see the current poll results the NO's are at 286 and the YES's are 251.

Hardly an overwhelming majority for the Naysayers.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

You first.....

Now that bowhunters and rifle hunters are in the same draw for mulies in some wmu's and the general archery season is gone, it doesn't really matter how you shoot your deer whether it be bow, crossbow, muzzle loader, rifle, shotgun or spear in the appropriate seasons.

I understand the issue of bowhunters not wanting to give anything up when it was general but what would be the reason to not want them now?

I am opposed to including crossbows into the general archery only season, so the question does not apply to me.


You must have skimmed some important info in the other thread. The combined archery/general weapon season draw is only for two years until a new contract for running the draw system is issued. Discussions will take place soon as to whether the applicant will be able apply to both archery draw and the general weapon draw in the same year or only one of them.


You misinformed idea that the weapon of choice is moot is moot.




Plus Dave, under the draw system with set allocations, a determination of weapon success rates needs to be considered when calculating the number of licences to issue. Your simplification of combining weapons could result in either fewer tags issued than possible, or an overharvest. Either way, not a good way to manage the wildlife and hunting opportunity.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

You first.....

Now that bowhunters and rifle hunters are in the same draw for mulies in some wmu's and the general archery season is gone, it doesn't really matter how you shoot your deer whether it be bow, crossbow, muzzle loader, rifle, shotgun or spear in the appropriate seasons.

I understand the issue of bowhunters not wanting to give anything up when it was general but what would be the reason to not want them now?

Lol, ..... It's still not archery equipment ....same reason, nothing changes...

[ForwardBias]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

lol, ..... It's still not archery equipment ....same reason, nothing changes...

x100

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Salavee

As I see the current poll results the NO's are at 286 and the YES's are 251.

Hardly an overwhelming majority for the Naysayers.

Ummm I count 287 to 238....

LC

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Salavee

As I see the current poll results the NO's are at 286 and the YES's are 251.

Hardly an overwhelming majority for the Naysayers.

And definitely not a ringing endorsement for their inclusion........

[Salavee]

Unforunately it does not include all Alberta hunters. Always a bit skewed on AO

[MathewsArcher]

Although, ESRDs hunter survey sent to over 50,000 Alberta hunters registered on RELM had a very similar outcome and result.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

Although, ESRDs hunter survey sent to over 50,000 Alberta hunters registered on RELM had a very similar outcome and result.

Does anyone actually have the results of the ESRD Survey ?

[MathewsArcher]

44% No
37% Yes
19% Neutral

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

Although, ESRDs hunter survey sent to over 50,000 Alberta hunters registered on RELM had a very similar outcome and result.

I think that you might want to mention that there were only 12K responses.

[MathewsArcher]

Even after a campaign by the AFGA to ensure the vote got out, doesn't suggest an overwhelming amount of support from their members as well (of which I am also one).

I believe the vote on the AFGA resolution was only a slight majority to pass as well ~55%.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

44% No
37% Yes
19% Neutral

An 8.4% difference between Y & N with 19% neutral .. not too far apart and likely too close to call if it came right down to the wire.

Apart from the Polls, I have to admit the "Bowhunters" are much more vocal and the ABA has some great lobbying tactics going for them. Those who seriously want X-Bows to be legitamately recognized should pay closer attention or they will always be on the outside lookin' in.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I think that you might want to mention that there were only 12K responses.

What percent of Alberta residents voted in the last provincial election? Apathy occurs in all facets....

LC

[MathewsArcher]

Important notice re: Annual Hunter Harvest Survey

If you are registered at www.albertarelm.com, you should have recently received an email regarding the annual Hunter’s Survey. Please take the time to fill out the survey as it provides valuable information for our game managers. At the end of the survey there is a question regarding your opinion on the inclusion of crossbows in archery season.

Below is the resolution re: crossbows that was passed at the 2010 AFGA annual general meeting followed by the reasoning for it.

BE IT RESOLVED THAT Alberta Sustainable Resource Development include crossbows in all archery seasons.

BRIEF: This would enhance hunting opportunities for all Albertans, and not just those with traditional archery equipment. The choice of equipment should be up to the individual.

Please take a few minutes to fill in the survey and make your vote count.

This was sent to all the AFGA members with email address on file as well in an effort to get the vote out. AFGA was at least as vocal as the ABA and pressed hard to have it passed. Given the narrow margin the AFGA resolution passed by even AFGA members are pretty split on if crossbows belong in the archery only season.

Doesn't seem like there is a lot of support for the proposal, even from AFGA members given the polls outcome and amount of apathy.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

This was sent to all the AFGA members with email address on file as well in an effort to get the vote out. AFGA was at least as vocal as the ABA and pressed hard to have it passed.

Doesn't seem like there is a lot of support for the proposal, even from AFGA members given the polls outcome and amount of apathy.

That is what I was referring to. The X-Bow supporters have to get off thier Duffs if they expect any positive results. That said, it appears that two separate archery camps may be the result. Not good !

[MathewsArcher]

Maybe there just aren't that many supporters, just a vocal minority? In my opinion most of the membership of the AFGA and a large majority of Alberta hunters just don't care one way or another and choose not to vote. I might be wrong but that's how I would interpret the results.

I still don't see it as two seperate archery camps, as in my opinion and as defined by the regulations, P&Y, ABA, a large number of states and the North American Bowhunting Coalition a crossbow is not archery equipment.........and around we go again!

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

Maybe there just aren't that many supporters, just a vocal minority. In my opinion most of the membership of the AFGA and a large majority of Alberta hunter just don't care one way or another and chose not to vote. I might be wrong but that's how I would interpret the results.

I agree. From my experience most AFGA members are not interested in any
X-Bow initiatives. As to the remaining Alberta Hunters, I agree as well. They don't really care either. As mentioned previously, the only ones who really care about the X-Bow situation is the ABA and they have no real opposition at this point.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I think that you might want to mention that there were only 12K responses.

So if absolutely every one of the ABA members actually voted on the survey there were still over 10000 non-ABA members who voted as well.....Hard to believe this vote was even close, since it was all about the ABA getting the vote out and stomping this resolution into the ground.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Unforunately it does not include all Alberta hunters. Always a bit skewed on AO

This forum is by no means an archery forum. If you want skewed, there is another forum you could go on and run the same poll lol.

Based on the conclusion of the poll conducted here and the poll conducted by SRD I would say that AO is representative of the hunting community writ large. It is certainly not overrun with "elite" archers. Acceptance is a bittersweet pill, best taken with alcohol...

[Salavee]

I was referring to our circumstances in Alberta regarding the two camps. If ABA remains adamant in keeping X-Bows out of our Archery seasons, the only viable alternative is a second camp( X-Bow). As to P&Y etc, I feel that is a different perpective altogether. Many would gladly relinquish thier P&Y potential just to be allowed to hunt with thier choice of equipment.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I am opposed to including crossbows into the general archery only season, so the question does not apply to me.

You must have skimmed some important info in the other thread. The combined archery/general weapon season draw is only for two years until a new contract for running the draw system is issued. Discussions will take place soon as to whether the applicant will be able apply to both archery draw and the general weapon draw in the same year or only one of them.

You misinformed idea that the weapon of choice is moot is moot.

Plus Dave, under the draw system with set allocations, a determination of weapon success rates needs to be considered when calculating the number of licences to issue. Your simplification of combining weapons could result in either fewer tags issued than possible, or an overharvest. Either way, not a good way to manage the wildlife and hunting opportunity.

If separate draws, one for archery and one for rifle, was posted in the other thread as being cast in stone then yes, I must have missed it.

An interesting fact in the poll on this thread is that only 25 people hunt with bow only and 421 people hunt with both bow and rifle. I think that those figures would translate into real life numbers where guys like me would prefer a combined draw where if I am unsuccessful with my bow I would have the opportunity go out with my rifle to fill my tag. I don't think that the hunting community would support separate archery/rifle draws and it will remain a combined draw.

I don't follow your logic regarding issuing fewer tags and being a poor way of managing our wildlife. Are you saying that the success rate will go up with the inclusion of crossbows? Why would that be, because all of the rifle only guys would rush out and purchase crossbows so they had an extra 2 months to hunt? If they can't pop a mulie with a rifle and a month during the rut to do it in, I doubt that their success rate will be any better with a crossbow and 2 months and no rut. Any change in success rates would be negligible IMO.

If they are issuing 82 rifle tags now and they add 18 more tags due to archery being included in the draw it will total 100 tags. It doesn't matter if there's 300 or 3000 people putting in for the draw or if they hunt archery or rifle, there will still be only 100 tags issued. Who cares how the tags are filled?

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I was referring to our circumstances in Alberta regarding the two camps. If ABA remains adamant in keeping X-Bows out of our Archery seasons, the only viable alternative is a second camp( X-Bow). As to P&Y etc, I feel that is a different perpective altogether. Many would gladly relinquish thier P&Y potential just to be allowed to hunt with thier choice of equipment.

It's not the ABA "keeping X-Bows out of our archery seasons". Alberta hunters voted. My opinion........and I'm not a member, is that the ABA is doing the right thing. It's not an "us against them" thing, because there is no them.......it's all us. Acceptance...take the pill.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by ehntr

This forum is by no means an archery forum. If you want skewed, there is another forum you could go on and run the same poll lol.

Based on the conclusion of the poll conducted here and the poll conducted by SRD I would say that AO is representative of the hunting community writ large. It is certainly not overrun with "elite" archers. Acceptance is a bittersweet pill, best taken with alcohol...

I wasn't suggesting AO is an Archey forum at all. It just seems that the Archery guy's are more vocal.. especially on the topic of X-Bows .and that is good. It helps keep the status quo intact for some and is a venue for change for others. Long live the debate lol

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

An interesting fact in the poll on this thread is that only 25 people hunt with bow only and 421 people hunt with both bow and rifle. I think that those figures would translate into real life numbers where guys like me would prefer a combined draw where if I am unsuccessful with my bow I would have the opportunity go out with my rifle to fill my tag. I don't think that the hunting community would support separate archery/rifle draws and it will remain a combined draw.

You already have that opportunity, draw a tag in WMU XXX, bow hunt that zone during the archery season and don't connect and go back out in the general season and fill your boots.....