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01-14-2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delburnedave
Well I sure hope they make up their minds and let us know soon, at least if it's going to be on draw or not. Was talking to one of my hunting buddies just last night about preparations for this fall. Sure would be nice to know if we have to worry about drawing tags, or not, before we go to all the work and expense of planning/preparing for the trip we want to do.
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I haven't heard a word about sheep going on draw.
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01-14-2010, 12:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 772
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There is a push and from what I’ve heard it is coming from FNAWS to change some policies with regards to general sheep tags. If any of you know some contacts at FNAWS start asking I would suggest that APOS has something to do with it as well.
Word also is that there is “nothing” wrong with the herd with respect to numbers or numbers harvested.
Small problem is that they are having trouble convicting anyone on short sheep mostly due to a lawyer that figured out how to fight it and win. Anyone with any ethics or spine would bite the bullet and face the consequences if they made the mistake of shooting a short ram but some find they need validation regardless. The suggestion for a draw fixes this problem because there would be “no” size or age requirement.
Second problem we don’t have enough of our biologists that are hunters. There was a good piece on this in the AFGA centennial book. This then means to solve a problem hunters are not a top three priority for them. You want to have an impact on this contact your nearest SRD biologist and voice your concerns.
If there is truly a problem I’m sure a reasonable solution can be found that doesn’t start with a draw, but to that I also hear we may get a chance to voice our concerns as there will probably be a travelling road show put on by SRD to gather information coming soon.
Talk to your local Biologist.
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01-14-2010, 12:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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i think sheepguide said it best..."everyone wants more and bigger rams, but without having to give up anything". so ill repeat what i stated...take some zones ( and because the south holds genetically bigger sheep i vote for them ) and make them draw areas. there seems to be a lot of concern over applying forever. you guys realize you can have a random lottery where priority does not exist, ie mountain goat. those areas would see limited trophy ram hunters allowing for more and bigger rams. perhaps with the increase in ram numbers a few extra ewe tags could go out allowing a little more opportunity for those who have to go whether they kill or not. and by the way, TJ is absolutely right. you dont have to kill anything to have a great hunt, but if killing is not the goal, it IS NOT hunting. those ewe hunters would get to hunt and scout for that ram tag that would hopefully come. I believe that those zones would have to go to once in a lifetime though. i still would like to see a good chunk of sheep country open for those who want just any legal ram, and so opportunity is still there for those willing. if you want to see an active model of this, do a little research on the sheep hunting in montana. they kill on average much older rams than we do here in alberta, and of course that means better trophy quality as a whole.
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01-14-2010, 12:58 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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oh, i just about forgot....check out nube's post on page 7 of this thread. 7 rams in 18 years. i stand corrected....i guess there are meat ram hunters. if you see this nube, can you tell us the ages and scores of these guys? i guess i have been a little lucky myself. i have hunted sheep twice. first trip saw so many sheep i was stunned. didnt see a legal ram, but knew i was onto something. next year went back and shot a ram on opening day. total days hunted....6. i have my 160 ram, and have no intention of killing another unless he is a well above average trophy. i will go sheep hunting again, and may watch my son or my wife or a friend shoot one, but i suspect unless something changes in alberta, i have killed my last sheep. to me its like a 140-150 whitetail. they are nice, but i dont shoot them either.
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01-14-2010, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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There would be no size or age requirement
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLH
There is a push and from what I’ve heard it is coming from FNAWS to change some policies with regards to general sheep tags. If any of you know some contacts at FNAWS start asking I would suggest that APOS has something to do with it as well.
Word also is that there is “nothing” wrong with the herd with respect to numbers or numbers harvested.
Small problem is that they are having trouble convicting anyone on short sheep mostly due to a lawyer that figured out how to fight it and win. Anyone with any ethics or spine would bite the bullet and face the consequences if they made the mistake of shooting a short ram but some find they need validation regardless. The suggestion for a draw fixes this problem because there would be “no” size or age requirement.
Second problem we don’t have enough of our biologists that are hunters. There was a good piece on this in the AFGA centennial book. This then means to solve a problem hunters are not a top three priority for them. You want to have an impact on this contact your nearest SRD biologist and voice your concerns.
If there is truly a problem I’m sure a reasonable solution can be found that doesn’t start with a draw, but to that I also hear we may get a chance to voice our concerns as there will probably be a travelling road show put on by SRD to gather information coming soon.
Talk to your local Biologist.
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01-14-2010, 01:31 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Prosperous Lake, NT
Posts: 5,633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLH
Talk to your local Biologist.
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As long as that biologist doesn't have an agenda.
Our guys up here believe that a less than 1% harvest of bull caribou from 500,000+ animals is not sustainable
tm
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01-14-2010, 01:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 588
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I myself am happy with the way things are in the ares I hunt. The first 10 years I spent looking for my first ram were the best 10 years of the 25 that I've hunted them. If I ever shoot a bigger ram than what I have now I want to have to work for him. If I don't find one in all of the sheep hunting years i have left I'll be completely happy. To me it's the hunt for a big ram that is important. Anyone can do what I and a lot of other members on here have done. It just takes work.
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01-14-2010, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
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Age data is faulty!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi
if you want to see an active model of this, do a little research on the sheep hunting in montana. they kill on average much older rams than we do here in alberta, and of course that means better trophy quality as a whole.
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Obviously someone missed the post on how inaccurate age is recorded in Alberta, not to mention horn length and base circumference errors!!! I hope it goes on draw then I can make serious money guiding sheep from guys realizing they will never get the opportunity to hunt sheep again if draw is implemented.
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01-14-2010, 02:55 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 7,770
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ISHOOTBAMBI, i don't remember off hand what the ages are. i will check when i get home. As for score I have only scored the 2 bigger ones at 181 and 170 and change. The 170+ is from Wilmore so i can't expect much more. The others are nothing special in size. They all have story and could care less what the score is and have never put a tape on them. i think my first ram is about as small as they come and if I remember right it is only 29" and 5 years old but I will check. I have a few rams that are from Wilmore and they are typical wilmore rmas with small bases and skinny horns. I don't hunt Wilmore and expect to find a "big" ram but enjoy that hunt over any other place to hunt them not matter what I find. Great place to spend time in the mountains.
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01-14-2010, 02:56 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide
Just direct me to that law! Guess Vanessa's sheep were illegal then huh!!!!! Or when you and Rich hunted Cadomin? Or when Rich helps Sandy. Just show me where it says I cant help and direct my wife when we are hunting or if a cousin or family friend wants to go.
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Wow, a fan, a loyal follower of the show. Thanks Darcy!
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01-14-2010, 03:02 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Slave Lake
Posts: 5,639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
wow, a fan, a loyal follower of the show. Thanks darcy!
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lmao
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01-14-2010, 03:50 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi
if you want to see an active model of this, do a little research on the sheep hunting in montana. they kill on average much older rams than we do here in alberta, and of course that means better trophy quality as a whole.
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Where do you get those stats from?
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01-14-2010, 03:56 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Prosperous Lake, NT
Posts: 5,633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
Wow, a fan, a loyal follower of the show.
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At the risk of sounding like a suck up......it is one of the better shows on for sure!!!!!
Must be your humour coming through the tube
tm
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01-14-2010, 04:06 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi
oh, i just about forgot....check out nube's post on page 7 of this thread. 7 rams in 18 years. i stand corrected....i guess there are meat ram hunters. if you see this nube, can you tell us the ages and scores of these guys? i guess i have been a little lucky myself. i have hunted sheep twice. first trip saw so many sheep i was stunned. didnt see a legal ram, but knew i was onto something. next year went back and shot a ram on opening day. total days hunted....6. i have my 160 ram, and have no intention of killing another unless he is a well above average trophy. i will go sheep hunting again, and may watch my son or my wife or a friend shoot one, but i suspect unless something changes in alberta, i have killed my last sheep. to me its like a 140-150 whitetail. they are nice, but i dont shoot them either.
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What's your magic age number that will make Nube killing those rams justtifiable in your eyes?
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01-14-2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey
At the risk of sounding like a suck up......it is one of the better shows on for sure!!!!!
Must be your humour coming through the tube
tm
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LOL...see Rich, I told you that you had more than one and less than three fans!
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01-14-2010, 05:09 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Slave Lake
Posts: 5,639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
What's your magic age number that will make Nube killing those rams justtifiable in your eyes?
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x2
I dont think any hunter should ever have to apologize for killing a legal animal..
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01-14-2010, 05:11 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 60
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resident hunters suffer
I for one would be quite upset if sheep went to a draw or the five year wait. Why should the residents of the province be the ones who's get restricted? The outfitters with the time,manpower and money have a much higher success rate than the residents as previously shown. If less rams are killed by residents through these restictions, then I'm quite sure the non-resident success would be even higher. The end result would be a similiar amount of sheep killed every year, only less killed by residents. Why should the resident hunters who pay taxes in the province all year be the ones who get restricted?? If there is too many sheep being harvested the non-residents should be restricted first (less tags, shorter season). I think we are missing this important point.
SG Feel free to climb up the mountain with your Nikon and be bear bait if that makes you happy. I will take the 300 and go hunting because that is what makes me happy. Cheers
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01-14-2010, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulo gulo
I for one would be quite upset if sheep went to a draw or the five year wait. Why should the residents of the province be the ones who's get restricted? The outfitters with the time,manpower and money have a much higher success rate than the residents as previously shown. If less rams are killed by residents through these restictions, then I'm quite sure the non-resident success would be even higher. The end result would be a similiar amount of sheep killed every year, only less killed by residents. Why should the resident hunters who pay taxes in the province all year be the ones who get restricted?? If there is too many sheep being harvested the non-residents should be restricted first (less tags, shorter season). I think we are missing this important point.
SG Feel free to climb up the mountain with your Nikon and be bear bait if that makes you happy. I will take the 300 and go hunting because that is what makes me happy. Cheers
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. Gotta agree with you there, if our opportunities to get a ram go down, it should be after the non-residents opportunity is zero. But I don't think sheep outfitters success rate will go up if it goes to a draw or five year wait, seems they do pretty well, and work hard for it, first guys in the mountains and last ones out.
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01-14-2010, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
. Gotta agree with you there, if our opportunities to get a ram go down, it should be after the non-residents opportunity is zero. But I don't think sheep outfitters success rate will go up if it goes to a draw or five year wait, seems they do pretty well, and work hard for it, first guys in the mountains and last ones out.
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If these schemes truly did result in more sheep in the mountains and less resident pressure, you honestly don't believe that outfitter success rates would go up? From my perspective, right now they are severely handicapped and still manage 50% success. You give them an opportunity at more sheep and I can't see success going anywhere but up. Those boys are good a what they do. Put more sheep in front of them and they'll kill more sheep...of that I have no doubt.
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01-14-2010, 05:40 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
. Gotta agree with you there, if our opportunities to get a ram go down, it should be after the non-residents opportunity is zero. But I don't think sheep outfitters success rate will go up if it goes to a draw or five year wait, seems they do pretty well, and work hard for it, first guys in the mountains and last ones out.
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Steve The outfitter success would absolutely go up. No question. There would be more sheep on the mountain in legal areas. With the amount of time they spend in the mountains they would kill more sheep. Remember they are at a 53% success rate, meaning they have 47% that they can improve on.
Cheers
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01-14-2010, 05:42 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
If these schemes truly did result in more sheep in the mountains and less resident pressure, you honestly don't believe that outfitter success rates would go up? From my perspective, right now they are severely handicapped and still manage 50% success. You give them an opportunity at more sheep and I can't see success going anywhere but up. Those boys are good a what they do. Put more sheep in front of them and they'll kill more sheep...of that I have no doubt.
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Yup your right, more rams in the mountains= more opportunity. I thought outfittere success rate was closer to 100% shot opportunity on their 15 day hunts. I know that Pete usually gets all his hunters a ram, Kip does extremely good and a B.H. In the Clearwater went a 98% over a few years. Sounds like they can't do much better already.
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01-14-2010, 05:43 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulo gulo
Steve The outfitter success would absolutely go up. No question. There would be more sheep on the mountain in legal areas. With the amount of time they spend in the mountains they would kill more sheep. Remember they are at a 53% success rate, meaning they have 47% that they can improve on.
Cheers
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From what I've hear I thought they did alot better then 53%
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01-14-2010, 05:45 PM
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Nope, outfitter harvest success is right at at 50%. Harvest opportunity could be a bit higher but I'm guessing not a lot. There's no doubt that the guys in the Willmore enjoy some great success for a number of reasons but province-wide it's only 50%.
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01-14-2010, 05:47 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey
At the risk of sounding like a suck up......it is one of the better shows on for sure!!!!!
Must be your humour coming through the tube
tm
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That's good because very few get my humor here! LOL
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01-14-2010, 05:50 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Nope, outfitter harvest success is right at at 50%. Harvest opportunity could be a bit higher but I'm guessing not a lot. There's no doubt that the guys in the Willmore enjoy some great success for a number of reasons but province-wide it's only 50%.
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With that outfitter success rate, the five year wait would definetly benefit some outfits. Others would continue to be extremely successful, that's my take on it now
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01-14-2010, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Athabasca
Posts: 173
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If our hunting rights as Albertans become restricted without any change to the allocation numbers given to outfitters there will be a lot of resident hunters who will be super angry. I know lots of sheep hunters who would fight this till the bitter end.
Great thread, lets keep it going. Cheers SM
__________________
EAT MOOSE - 12, 000 WOLVES CAN'T BE WRONG
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01-14-2010, 06:04 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On a farm
Posts: 1,572
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my earlier question wasn't answered,.... if i'm on a 1 yr (present system) or more hiatus due to shooting a ram, am i or am i not allowed to legally take my daughter (under 18) sheep hunting ?
__________________
Living for the adventure, enjoying the ride ! BRAD
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01-14-2010, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyfish
my earlier question wasn't answered,.... if i'm on a 1 yr (present system) or more hiatus due to shooting a ram, am i or am i not allowed to legally take my daughter (under 18) sheep hunting ?
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It's one of those crazy laws in the Wildlife Act that I'm sure is rarely enforced and likely has some basis in previous abuse but the letter of the law says no. Now, if you had a black bear tag in your pocket and the season was open where your daughter happened to be hunting sheep, it would just be two people out hunting. At least that's the way I interpret it. For the life of me, I couldn't see an Officer busting a Dad helping his daughter but if he was so inclined, he could. What a court would do wiith it is open to speculation. Sometimes things are best left unsaid on a public messageboard....
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01-14-2010, 06:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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to steve, and nube for that matter, there is no age or score that will make killing 7 rams justifiable. the fact that alberta law allows it and he is willing to put in the time and effort it takes makes it justifiable. i never said there was anything wrong with it, only that i personally wouldnt do it. thats just my own feeling that i would rather let the next 160 ram walk hoping that he'll grow, but most likely someone else will have the chance to get a ram. i will say congratulations to anyone who ever kills one, as i really believe there are no easy rams. to get one is a lot of work and 7 is 7 times the work. all im saying is that i wish we could have more opportunity in this province to have a QUALITY hunt for mature rams. the B&C record book is solid proof of the genetic potential here in alberta, but the vast majority of rams dont live long enough to have a chance to show it.
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01-14-2010, 06:18 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On a farm
Posts: 1,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
That's good because very few get my humor here! LOL
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I would venture to guess that if a few more HAD a sense of humour, this site would have a few less "issues".
__________________
Living for the adventure, enjoying the ride ! BRAD
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