Would you carry?

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Not paranoid at all, the facts state.bear attack per year 1 is that fairly clear one per annum on average a single attack . Fire arm fatalities per year from accident 55 fifty five per annum KIlled from an acciental discharge of a firearm. So the ubsurd suggestion that a fire arm is for protection from wild life dont fly. because by these numbers the people carrying guns are more lightly to have an accident than have to use a fire arm on a bear. Things I dont cwrry in central alberta: tiger defence kit one attack every few years in canada.
:cobra anti vevin one bite per anumm
: radiation kit guess one per anumm.
I hope this clears up just how parinoind carrying a fire arm for protection from wild life in canada really is . Now run out and get your cobra bite kit lol.

Let's throw this into your fantasy world.

I would think that 100% of people are at least at some risk of being killed or injured by accidental discharge of a firearm 100% of the time.

I would think that less than 5% of people are at any risk of being attacked by an animal less than 1% of the time.

Considering this into your stats would clearly indicate that those that regularly spend time in bear/cougar habitat are far greater risk of attack than being shot.

You are comparing 55 mishaps out of millions of people to 1 person attacked out of hundreds.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Let's throw this into your fantasy world.

I would think that 100% of people are at least at some risk of being killed or injured by accidental discharge of a firearm 100% of the time.

I would think that less than 5% of people are at any risk of being attacked by an animal less than 1% of the time.

Considering this into your stats would clearly indicate that those that regularly spend time in bear/cougar habitat are far greater risk of attack than being shot.

You are comparing 55 mishaps out of millions of people to 1 person attacked out of hundreds.

As per ryan4 posting 400 000 visitors to denali np and in the parks 90 yr history one fatal attack. If one wishes to goole alaska' s most recent attack on bird watcher lol defended his family with a tripod for his spoting scope . Lol big tough bird watcher just need a camera dam those Alaskans are way tough rofl albertans must be soft they "neeed big bore pistols"lol the timing for this is perfect. I cant make this up lolol I guess I conced you may require a pistol in the backcountry one never knows when you could come across an irate birder. Lolol

[Unregistered user]

Lots of people and guns at shooting ranges, few accidents, can't think of one, even at the crazy public range out at Sibbald. In fact shooting ranges are so safe insurance premiums for clubs and users alike are at the very minimum rate.

[280Hunter]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Not paranoid at all, the facts state.bear attack per year 1 is that fairly clear one per annum on average a single attack . Fire arm fatalities per year from accident 55 fifty five per annum KIlled from an acciental discharge of a firearm. So the ubsurd suggestion that a fire arm is for protection from wild life dont fly. because by these numbers the people carrying guns are more lightly to have an accident than have to use a fire arm on a bear. Things I dont cwrry in central alberta: tiger defence kit one attack every few years in canada.
:cobra anti vevin one bite per anumm
: radiation kit guess one per anumm.
I hope this clears up just how parinoind carrying a fire arm for protection from wild life in canada really is . Now run out and get your cobra bite kit lol.

Do you even own a firearm?

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by 280Hunter

Do you even own a firearm?

Sure do . five at one time . However I use the grey matter between my ears for protection.my .270 is for deer. Have owned or been in possesion of a fire arm since the age of 12. Not once in hunderds of bear encounters have I needed any defencive weaponry. In one cougar encounter pepper spray was used. Thankfully I dont suffer wildaphobia.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Lots of people and guns at shooting ranges, few accidents, can't think of one, even at the crazy public range out at Sibbald. In fact shooting ranges are so safe insurance premiums for clubs and users alike are at the very minimum rate.

Nov 12 2012 Tdsa range a professional training range. Instructor shot hmm murphy wont quit.

[elkhunter11]

Thankfully I dont suffer wildaphobia.

But you do seem to have the market cornered on paranoia.

You have yet to come up with a single instance where someone was accidentally shot during a bear attack. Until you do, the number of fatalities caused by bears, still greatly outnumbers the number of people shot by accidents during bear attacks.

[boonerkiller]

The big thing here is freedom of choice, why does someone else get to decide what is good or bad for me. It's complete horsesh*t and its the direction our nanny state continues to go. Stub your toe.....build a box around your toe so you don't stub it again. Let me decide what is good for me and not good for me if it kills me that's my deal not your's.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But you do seem to have the market cornered on paranoia.

You have yet to come up with a single instance where someone was accidentally shot during a bear attack. Until you do, the number of fatalities caused by bears, still greatly outnumbers the number of people shot by accidents during bear attacks.

Oh how easy this gets, two in 2012. sorry my puter skill aint up on posting urls however a quick google of accidentl shooting during bear encounters. Will get you your info.so in fact in the us more people were shot or killed during bear encounters than were killed by bears in canada. lol I have no fear of guns what so ever. Idiots useing them incorrectly is a little worring.lol so with the smallets effort you will find the google you were looking for. Now I can wet my self laughing as my mate murphy has without the smallest doubt removed any question that humans as an average are more dangerous to thems selves and others whist armed than ANY BEAR.bahaha I would like to point out at almost every suggestion from the procarry camp has taken no more than one well worded google search to dispel each point made. Rofl. Bahaha.

[elkhunter11]

Oh how easy this gets, two in 2012. sorry my puter skill aint up on posting urls however a quick google of accidentl shooting during bear encounters. Will get you your info.so in fact in the us more people were shot or killed during bear encounters than were killed by bears in canada.

Do you really think that people are naive enough not to notice how you mixed the stats between the "USA", and "Canada", and between "shot or killed", and "killed", to skew the numbers, to try and support your argument? You aren't involved in politics are you?

We live in Canada, so how about some stats to show that more people were accidentally shot during bear attacks in Canada, than people that were attacked by bears in Canada.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

In one cougar encounter pepper spray was used. Thankfully I dont suffer wildaphobia.

Then why the pepper spray???

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Do you really think that people are naive enough not to notice how you mixed the stats between the "USA", and "Canada", and between "shot or killed", and "killed", to skew the numbers, to try and support your argument? You aren't involved in politics are you?

We live in Canada, so how about some stats to show that more people we accidentally shot during bear attacks in Canada, than people that were attacked by bears in Canada.

Sir at no time did you say canada in you suggestion of folks being shot during bear encounters however as asked for. One google ill find that for you. Lol have you not seen how stacked the odds are when humans are put to the test. Bears deal with instincts 99.9% every bear on earth other than polar bears will leave humans to them selves .even during attacks the bear can be understood to 99.9 % ie sow with cubs , kill site , bear being surprised. Humans will fail every possible scenario you or I can bring in argument. Its how odds work I fortunatly lived in kitimat during my life. The town moves with bears every fall and spring. If bears looked at humans as food no one would live in kitimat .or we would have to kill all the bear's. happily this is not the case and for the most part 99.9% of the bears keep on keeping on.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Then why the pepper spray???

The party I was with was concered as a cougar was sighted days earlyer. I however had a good dog which in the end proved more useful.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

As per ryan4 posting 400 000 visitors to denali np and in the parks 90 yr history one fatal attack. If one wishes to goole alaska' s most recent attack on bird watcher lol defended his family with a tripod for his spoting scope . Lol big tough bird watcher just need a camera dam those Alaskans are way tough rofl albertans must be soft they "neeed big bore pistols"lol the timing for this is perfect. I cant make this up lolol I guess I conced you may require a pistol in the backcountry one never knows when you could come across an irate birder. Lolol

Message Board Rules

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message board is for hunters, anglers, trappers, and other persons who may be interested in hunting, fishing and trapping. Therefore, anti-hunters, anti-anglers, and anti-trappers are not welcome to the use of this message board.

You are the definition of anti. Our real enemy is not the the PETA wing nuts that anyone with half a brain can identify as a misfit, it is people like you.

You use exactly the same language as Allen Rock and Mark Holland when they speak about firearm ownership and what is best for us. You fail to use reason or respect the feelings of nearly 90% of the users here and instead promote your agenda of fear and cowardice.

It is not for you decide what is acceptable risk or behavior. Your fear of firearms because of their physical shape or size is border line insane.

It has been proven in several studies that your fear is not based on what others might do but a lack of trust in your own abilities and self control. Have you not noticed that the sane people that choose not to carry or even support the open carry of sidearms have not gone off on a tangent because they think we are going to shoot them.

If hunters don't stand up for trappers, if fisherman don't stand up for shooters, if we all don't stand up together we will eventually cease to be.

First the Nazis came…
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me —
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

We as firearm owners have been under constant attack from people just like you. Rifles are OK but not short ones, Rifles are OK but not the black ones, Rifles are not OK just shotguns.......but not the short ones......nor the black ones......why does anyone need to own guns??????

We just won back a big piece of freedom in the battle against people like you that know what is best for us by getting rid of the Nazi inspired registry.

As a man that claims to have served, one would think you of all people would understand the freedom of the people to make their own choices trumps all.

The forum is a bad place for a person suffering from hoplophobia. You should consider profession help or at least find an audience where someone finds your idiotic use of statistics humorous. It is in fact dangerous to the freedoms we enjoy.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Message Board Rules

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message board is for hunters, anglers, trappers, and other persons who may be interested in hunting, fishing and trapping. Therefore, anti-hunters, anti-anglers, and anti-trappers are not welcome to the use of this message board.

You are the definition of anti. Our real enemy is not the the PETA wing nuts that anyone with half a brain can identify as a misfit, it is people like you.

You use exactly the same language as Allen Rock and Mark Holland when they speak about firearm ownership and what is best for us. You fail to use reason or respect the feelings of nearly 90% of the users here and instead promote your agenda of fear and cowardice.

It is not for you decide what is acceptable risk or behavior. Your fear of firearms because of their physical shape or size is border line insane.

It has been proven in several studies that your fear is not based on what others might do but a lack of trust in your own abilities and self control. Have you not noticed that the sane people that choose not to carry or even support the open carry of sidearms have not gone off on a tangent because they think we are going to shoot them.

If hunters don't stand up for trappers, if fisherman don't stand up for shooters, if we all don't stand up together we will eventually cease to be.

First the Nazis came…
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me —
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

We as firearm owners have been under constant attack from people just like you. Rifles are OK but not short ones, Rifles are OK but not the black ones, Rifles are not OK just shotguns.......but not the short ones......nor the black ones......why does anyone need to own guns??????

We just won back a big piece of freedom in the battle against people like you that know what is best for us by getting rid of the Nazi inspired registry.

As a man that claims to have served, one would think you of all people would understand the freedom of the people to make their own choices trumps all.

The forum is a bad place for a person suffering from hoplophobia. You should consider profession help or at least find an audience where someone finds your idiotic use of statistics humorous. It is in fact dangerous to the freedoms we enjoy.

Sir I can assure you if I over step board rules the hammer will fall on my avitar as fast as ABB or any other mod so wishes . Sir I live in canada where no right to bear arms exists .it is a privilege reserverd rightly or wrongly for those that take the time,energy and training to possess firearms.
As such the canadian public as a whole feel this is fine . I for the most part agree with this. I am a hunter (if unskilled) I am a fisherman. II spend as many hours in the west country as I can. At every turn of this thread I have not once stated a ban or restricted access to fire arms what I will not allow is the insult of intelligence that one requires a hand gun to protect one from bears or cougar. It is a falicy generated from fear, bears dont look at humans as a food source if this was the case humans would not venture out side of our cityies and bear attack would be the rule not the near imposibility it actually is.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Sir I can assure you if I over step board rules the hammer will fall on my avitar as fast as ABB or any other mod so wishes . Sir I live in canada where no right to bear arms exists .it is a privilege reserverd rightly or wrongly for those that take the time,energy and training to possess firearms.
As such the canadian public as a whole feel this is fine . I for the most part agree with this. I am a hunter (if unskilled) I am a fisherman. II spend as many hours in the west country as I can. At every turn of this thread I have not once stated a ban or restricted access to fire arms what I will not allow is the insult of intelligence that one requires a hand gun to protect one from bears or cougar. It is a falicy generated from fear, bears dont look at humans as a food source if this was the case humans would not venture out side of our cityies and bear attack would be the rule not the near imposibility it actually is.

And we are all OK with your opinion on bears and cougars. It's the part about us being better off without the handguns because we would end up shooting ourselves and that you know what is best for us.

What I take with me into the field for self protection or survival purposes should be no ones business but my own. Be it a 22 revolver for shooting game in case of emergency or 44 mag to defend myself from animal attack (regardless of how unlikely).

I very much like the tone of your last post, I am more likely to make an effort to understand your point of view without the childish mockery and insults.

[elkhunter11]

You are the definition of anti. Our real enemy is not the the PETA wing nuts that anyone with half a brain can identify as a misfit, it is people like you.

You use exactly the same language as Allen Rock and Mark Holland when they speak about firearm ownership and what is best for us. You fail to use reason or respect the feelings of nearly 90% of the users here and instead promote your agenda of fear and cowardice.

Exactly, the most dangerous adversary of Canada's firearm's owners is the person that portrays himself as a hunter and recreational gun owner, then spreads his anti gun rhetoric from within the very ranks of hunters and gun owners.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly, the most dangerous adversary of Canada's firearm's owners is the person that portrays himself as a hunter and recreational gun owner, then spreads his anti gun rhetoric from within the very ranks of hunters and gun owners.

Please point out the statment made that is anti . Not once have I made any statement anti fire arm. I as a gun owner for most of my life understand guns are harmless , a lump of steel if left sitting on a table. (This of course would constitute a poorly stored fire arm) . What I think is missed here is the fact, to a member this form is full of exceptional firearms owners Not the average shmo . The shmo is the greater in the populace and as such we have far more firearm accidents than bear attack fatalities. Murphy never sleeps.

[elkhunter11]

Please point out the statment made that is anti .

You have made numerous statements to the effect that people can't be trusted with firearms, and that they are more likely to shoot each other than the bear in the case of a bear attack. You are constantly suggesting that simply being in possession of firearms puts our lives at great risk. You don't give away your entire agenda, by coming right out and stating that all firearms should be taken away from sportsmen and hunters, but rather you imply that it is the only safe solution, in the same way the Liberal and NDP politicians do.

[krthegunslinger]

Originally Posted by Lance Skene

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion of the regulations, but blatantly ignoring them and carrying anyway is no longer just an opinion, its an illegal activity, not an example of responsible gun ownership. I have to ask 'Does this AO forum support this kind of mentality?' .... if so then maybe Im in the wrong place.

Hey lance I am sorry if I ruffled your feathers with my post on carrying a side arm. OF COURSE I don't carry as I would never do anything to give the authorities any reason to take my rights away to own firearms. I was merely seeing what kind of reaction my post would bring. Sorry if I offended any one. A short barrel folding stock 12ga is my prefered back up weapon as its light weight and very effective.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You have made numerous statements to the effect that people can't be trusted with firearms, and that they are more likely to shoot each other than the bear in the case of a bear attack. You are constantly suggesting that simply being in possession of firearms puts our lives at great risk. You don't give away your entire agenda, by coming right out and stating that all firearms should be taken away from sportsmen and hunters, but rather you imply that it is the only safe solution, in the same way the Liberal and NDP politicians do.

I have no agenda, the FACTS not I make it quite clear firearm accidents are more prevalent than bear attack. This is not an opinion this is just the numbers. At no point do I suggest or imply firearms should be restricted,banned or any such thing . My point thru this entire thread do not suggest a firearm is required for the backcountry protection. Ie facts show pepper spray to be more effective. And an old old saying if its not in your hand before you need it its just 5lb lump of steel you've been draging for years. I will sugest infact the only agenda in this thread is that of ultrapro gun owners wishing canadas laws be changed to mirror the US more closely. Where firearms death out strip canadas 10/1 even with population correction.

[Unregistered user]

Actuary tables give insurance companies reason to charge their fees based on the likelyhood of having to make a payout. Insurance companies play to win and profit. NFA range and liability insurance is peanuts. Semi-literate D. bags can fake all the stats they want, money talks b.s. walks.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Actuary tables give insurance companies reason to charge their fees based on the likelyhood of having to make a payout. Insurance companies play to win and profit. NFA range and liability insurance is peanuts. Semi-literate D. bags can fake all the stats they want, money talks b.s. walks.

Are you implying bear attack is more prevalent than firearm accident . Lol if you wish I can give you the simple google searches I used to find info pertaining to bear attack vs firearm accidents. No i dont own white sunglasses. If you wish please support your findings re bear attack insurance lolol.

[Unregistered user]

That was easy.

[Elko]

I know of three grizzly bears shot last year in self defence, just in alberta, you can argue all day spray may have worked, but ask any of those three individuals, you can bet they are a believer in firearms working.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by Elko

I know of three grizzly bears shot last year in self defence, just in alberta, you can argue all day spray may have worked, but ask any of those three individuals, you can bet they are a believer in firearms working.

Please note that every person who saved themselves from being killed had a gun and shot the grizzly. While there are many more people hiking than hunters and not one was killed last year who was unarmed. Guaranteed next hunting season there will be more hunters who save themselves from being killed by killing bears with guns. I am all for hunting grizzlies and blacks but do not believe for a second the guns are needed for protection.You want to pack a pistol? I am all for it but citing protection is lame.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by lannie

Please note that every person who saved themselves from being killed had a gun and shot the grizzly. While there are many more people hiking than hunters and not one was killed last year who was unarmed. Guaranteed next hunting season there will be more hunters who save themselves from being killed by killing bears with guns. I am all for hunting grizzlies and blacks but do not believe for a second the guns are needed for protection.You want to pack a pistol? I am all for it but citing protection is lame.

I would suggest that most hikers are all bear belled up and noisy , with a dog perhaps. Not all camoflaged and quietly sitting over a steaming elk carcass

[lannie]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

I would suggest that most hikers are all bear belled up and noisy , with a dog perhaps. Not all camoflaged and quietly sitting over a steaming elk carcass

Elko stated three cases where they shot grizzlies. They had guns and "saved themselves". You are implying sitting over a steaming carcass requires a gun?
They either already have a gun or they are bow hunting. So find me the bow hunters that were not able to save themselves and were killed because they did not have a gun. You wont- that's my point. I predict no bow hunters will be killed next year either. Again I predict there will be hunters with guns who do kill bears to save themselves. That's all.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by lannie

Elko stated three cases where they shot grizzlies. They had guns and "saved themselves". You are implying sitting over a steaming carcass requires a gun?

Nope

Just sayin a solitary hunter cleaning a carcass or returning for another load of meat is in far more danger( wether justified or not ) than a pack of 5 hikers with bear bells making enough noise to scare anything within a quarter mile.
Hey you brought the hikers into it
Besides an arrow makes no noise and there are getting to be alot more educated bears who associate a gunshot with a food source. Not sayin it happens every time a guy goes out , but it does happen fairly regular anymore

[lannie]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

I would suggest that most hikers are all bear belled up and noisy , with a dog perhaps. Not all camoflaged and quietly sitting over a steaming elk carcass

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Nope

Just sayin a solitary hunter cleaning a carcass or returning for another load of meat is in far more danger( wether justified or not ) than a pack of 5 hikers with bear bells making enough noise to scare anything within a quarter mile.
Hey you brought the hikers into it
Besides an arrow makes no noise and there are getting to be alot more educated bears who associate a gunshot with a food source. Not sayin it happens every time a guy goes out , but it does happen fairly regular anymore

I have read above and they are all good points.