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03-13-2014, 01:24 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spruce
Well, ABA no more for me. Any hunting/outdoors group that singles out another will never get support from me. Arrows cause alot of lost animals every hunting season, this is the wrong group too point fingers. It is truely a sad day when we publicly attack one another at the highest levels. This will also leave me to truely question anyone that agrees with and supports the ideals of this group.
Spruce
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said perfectly
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No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-13-2014, 01:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brooks Alberta
Posts: 89
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This is absurd! Some could argue muzzle loaders are too primitive. I've never heard of such an absurd post! The OP makes no valid "opinions" for his argument
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03-13-2014, 01:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Eastern Alberta
Posts: 891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldmanfry
This is absurd! Some could argue muzzle loaders are too primitive. I've never heard of such an absurd post! The OP makes no valid "opinions" for his argument
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These are not the opinions of the OP. They are the opinions of the ABA. He is simply drawing light to your exact point.
Spruce
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03-13-2014, 02:16 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBFK
bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick.
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No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them.
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Never underestimate the power of explosives...
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03-13-2014, 02:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Forgotten corner Ab.
Posts: 580
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When you don't understand something.. It is the easy way out wanting to get rid of it... Many states are fighting to have what we have..
Leroy
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Jesus said "Go and fish"
He didn't say anything about cleaning the garage and cutting the grass....
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03-13-2014, 02:43 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hat in the Cat
No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them.
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quote of 2014!!!
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No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-13-2014, 03:18 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tox
Really, The ABA defends against crossbows invading archery seasons, muzzleloaders taking part of the archery season and so on. Every year. It seams they have no problem thowing bowhunters under the bus while the ABA is promoting bowhunting and the sport of archery.
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If the ABA was asking for regulations regarding size, weight, and cutting diameter when it came to the use of spears and atlatls this would be the correct approach. Asking for regs to be put in place so the tools used for this style of hunting were not just a sharpened stick I could agree with. Banning a hunting method that is really not a far stretch from archery is not a smart move.
Yes, the ABA tries to fight for rights of bowhunters but stupid proposals like this only help put a divide between other hunters and bowhunters. This creates a bad view of bowhunters and adds to the numbers of people willing to throw you under the bus.
As long as the ABA makes a fool of them selves towards other hunting groups the more respect archers loose at the sometime.
Personally as a bowhunter I don't want the black eye
You don't want to give anti's power well every time one group of hunters picks a fight with another anti's are winning because they stick together well we fight
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03-13-2014, 05:08 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Back in Lethbridge
Posts: 4,647
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To illustrate the absurdity of the argument that spears and /or atlatls (and other bladed weapons) are too difficult to master / are not effective except in the hands of an expert, see if you can spot the flawed logic in the following:
I was watching YouTube the other day and I saw a video where a guy shot a deer with a rifle. The guy was using a 338 Lapua and a scope with a built in rangefinder and a special reticle that allowed him to accurately shoot to 800 yards plus.
Now, he didn't shoot the deer that far away; he reported the distance was 475 yards. At the shot the deer fell down, then immediately got up and ran about 50 yards with blood spraying out onto the snow. When they walked up to the deer you could see the deer's heart hanging out of the hole in its chest. There was so much blood on the snow that it looked like a slaughterhouse.
It got me thinking: what would non-hunters think about the video? Maybe hunting equipment has become too efficient, too powerful and too accurate. Heck, that little deer didn't even know that there was a hunter in the area... what is so sporting about that? The deer didn't stand a chance.
Why would anyone want to hunt with such a powerful firearm? A real hunter would never shoot an animal from 475 yards. People shouldn't be allowed to hunt using those things.
Maybe we shouldn't "ban" them outright, but maybe we need to regulate the size of bullets and restrict scope reticles so they only allow people to accurately shoot to 300 yards. There is no need to shoot farther than that. And laser rangefinders are completely non-sporting; they allow people to kill animals too far away.
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03-13-2014, 05:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudelpointer
To illustrate the absurdity of the argument that spears and /or atlatls (and other bladed weapons) are too difficult to master / are not effective except in the hands of an expert, see if you can spot the flawed logic in the following:
I was watching YouTube the other day and I saw a video where a guy shot a deer with a rifle. The guy was using a 338 Lapua and a scope with a built in rangefinder and a special reticle that allowed him to accurately shoot to 800 yards plus.
Now, he didn't shoot the deer that far away; he reported the distance was 475 yards. At the shot the deer fell down, then immediately got up and ran about 50 yards with blood spraying out onto the snow. When they walked up to the deer you could see the deer's heart hanging out of the hole in its chest. There was so much blood on the snow that it looked like a slaughterhouse.
It got me thinking: what would non-hunters think about the video? Maybe hunting equipment has become too efficient, too powerful and too accurate. Heck, that little deer didn't even know that there was a hunter in the area... what is so sporting about that? The deer didn't stand a chance.
Why would anyone want to hunt with such a powerful firearm? A real hunter would never shoot an animal from 475 yards. People shouldn't be allowed to hunt using those things.
Maybe we shouldn't "ban" them outright, but maybe we need to regulate the size of bullets and restrict scope reticles so they only allow people to accurately shoot to 300 yards. There is no need to shoot farther than that. And laser rangefinders are completely non-sporting; they allow people to kill animals too far away.
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kinda the way i feel. I would get more enoyment sneaking up on an animal and smacking his rearend than feild bombing it from 600 yards....mind you smacking its but aint gonna put meat on the table either....
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03-13-2014, 07:03 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots270
Well stated bh and mcbride.
But Tox!!....I'm afraid you are not comprehending what is being said.
Pointed sticks????
I'm not even going to get into it.
You have a touch of anti in your comments. Or unfounded fears and disillusionment.
As stated.....get out and hunt and enjoy it.
Others will follow. Leave the others behind.
I'm going to go shoot some arrows at my defenseless target now. Poor thing
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I totally get it. All hunters should support any form of hunting no matter how much they disagree with them because it's their fellow hunter. Trust me, I'm far from an anti. Plus, that would be against the forum rules.
Unfounded or disillusioned fears? LOL
__________________
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?”
-Scarecrow
― L. Frank Baum, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
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03-13-2014, 07:09 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J D
If the ABA was asking for regulations regarding size, weight, and cutting diameter when it came to the use of spears and atlatls this would be the correct approach. Asking for regs to be put in place so the tools used for this style of hunting were not just a sharpened stick I could agree with. Banning a hunting method that is really not a far stretch from archery is not a smart move.
Yes, the ABA tries to fight for rights of bowhunters but stupid proposals like this only help put a divide between other hunters and bowhunters. This creates a bad view of bowhunters and adds to the numbers of people willing to throw you under the bus.
As long as the ABA makes a fool of them selves towards other hunting groups the more respect archers loose at the sometime.
Personally as a bowhunter I don't want the black eye
You don't want to give anti's power well every time one group of hunters picks a fight with another anti's are winning because they stick together well we fight
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I think you'll find the ABA is asking for regulation changes and not a ban on entire weapons. At least that will be my vote at the AGM.
__________________
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?”
-Scarecrow
― L. Frank Baum, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
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03-13-2014, 07:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tox
I totally get it. All hunters should support any form of hunting no matter how much they disagree with them because it's their fellow hunter. Trust me, I'm far from an anti. Plus, that would be against the forum rules.
Unfounded or disillusioned fears? LOL
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Now all you did was a full sweep while still not clearly seeing the topic.
Some would call it childish behaviour.
I'll just call it uninformed.
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03-13-2014, 07:25 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Address the subject matter not the person people, and everyone will get along.
When you address the person not the subject the train goes off the tracks.
That may be fine with you but you don't own this forum and the owner wants us to share not fight.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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03-13-2014, 07:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tox
I think you'll find the ABA is asking for regulation changes and not a ban on entire weapons. At least that will be my vote at the AGM.
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See post number 8.......para 4 of the ABA resolution.......specifically the word "BAN".
Spears and atlalt are not bows anymore than a rifle or a shotgun is. The ABA needs to mind their own business.
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03-13-2014, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 103
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I too think that, if the approach was to regulate size, weight, cutting diametre there would be a proper point made. To "ban" a tool, absurd! Too primitive, coming from a bowhunter, ridiculous! We would love to see Atlatls and Spears written into the regulations, just to rid ourselves of ridiculousness! An arrow is an arrow, wood, aluminum, fibreglass, carbon and the like. How many hunters knew what an Atlatl was, before it was brought up? How many hunt with them? So few, that it's a moot point. The ABA needs to withdraw their proposal to ban! What we need to see, is the Atlatlists and Spear hunters have a voice in determination of regulating this tool. Why have our voices not been taken into account at ANY GM for the ABA, AFGA, or AGMAG? Yes, we are an extremely small group, but we should still be heard for our opinion on the issue!!
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03-13-2014, 08:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 742
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^^^have you contacted the ABA?
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03-13-2014, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Back in Lethbridge
Posts: 4,647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertaatlatl
I too think that, if the approach was to regulate size, weight, cutting diametre there would be a proper point made. To "ban" a tool, absurd! Too primitive, coming from a bowhunter, ridiculous! We would love to see Atlatls and Spears written into the regulations, just to rid ourselves of ridiculousness! An arrow is an arrow, wood, aluminum, fibreglass, carbon and the like. How many hunters knew what an Atlatl was, before it was brought up? How many hunt with them? So few, that it's a moot point. The ABA needs to withdraw their proposal to ban! What we need to see, is the Atlatlists and Spear hunters have a voice in determination of regulating this tool. Why have our voices not been taken into account at ANY GM for the ABA, AFGA, or AGMAG? Yes, we are an extremely small group, but we should still be heard for our opinion on the issue!!
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While I see regulation as a waste of time and energy (that ESRD could be focussing on addressing a number of other important issues) it honestly doesn't matter to me. If ESRD wants to set a minimum dart length and cutting head width, and it makes someone feel better, so be it.
However! Opening up the legislation to legislate rules around currently unidentified and imaginary future weapons is ludicrous. I hope that is where it ends, but I wouldn't bet my dog on it.
Expect a revision of minimum cartridge length (cause someone can legally hunt moose with 9mm JR Carbine...) and don't be surprised if you find more items than that on the "banned" list. I know, I know, some of you will stand thumping your chest how those diminutive pistol cartridges should be illegal to use for big game! And I will fully agree that they shouldn't be used.... and the truth is NO ONE IS USING THEM FOR BIG GAME! So there is no need to legislate it, other than to make some people feel comfortable that there are no "what if?" possibilities.
Same as a "sack full of rocks"... is it legal to bludgeon a moose with a sack full of rocks? Technically yes. REALITY - it doesn't matter because virtually no one is that stupid.
But OH, OH, WHAT IF SOMEONE BLUDGEONS A MOOSE WITH A BAG OF ROCKS!?!!! What will we say to the PETA people?!?!
This conversation is ridiculous.
ETA - Before someone accuses me of exaggerating to make an argument, let me explain that the "sack full of rocks" was presented at the AFGA conference as an example of how our laws are not up to the task of regulating hunting weapons by ... Rob Corrigan, our ESRD Provincial Big Game Specialist. Mr. Corrigan also shared with us the potential horror of "endurance hunting" where an "American" wanted to come to AB and run down a deer (or elk or something; didn't catch the species because I was laughing so hard by that point) and kill it with a knife. I love the "American" detail. Perfect.
I can't make this stuff up.
Last edited by Pudelpointer; 03-13-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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03-13-2014, 09:34 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudelpointer
This conversation is ridiculous.
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I agree. whether it is argued here or at an ABA meeting.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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03-13-2014, 10:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Clear Running Water
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudelpointer
I was watching YouTube the other day and I saw a video where a guy shot a deer with a rifle. The guy was using a 338 Lapua and a scope with a built in rangefinder and a special reticle that allowed him to accurately shoot to 800 yards plus.
It got me thinking: what would non-hunters think about the video? Maybe hunting equipment has become too efficient, too powerful and too accurate. Heck, that little deer didn't even know that there was a hunter in the area... what is so sporting about that? The deer didn't stand a chance.
Why would anyone want to hunt with such a powerful firearm? A real hunter would never shoot an animal from 475 yards. People shouldn't be allowed to hunt using those things.
Maybe we shouldn't "ban" them outright, but maybe we need to regulate the size of bullets and restrict scope reticles so they only allow people to accurately shoot to 300 yards. There is no need to shoot farther than that. And laser rangefinders are completely non-sporting; they allow people to kill animals too far away.
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And strangely, I think the same as you but think supressors are a good idea (can't lay down my argument right now but will).
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03-13-2014, 10:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Clear Running Water
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots270
Now all you did was a full sweep while still not clearly seeing the topic.
Some would call it childish behaviour.
I'll just call it uninformed.
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weird, I never once got that from Toxes posts, I thought he posed arguments worth considering should a greater debate be necessary.
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03-13-2014, 10:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nelson BC
Posts: 2,042
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Too weird. Why would a hunting forum not support those who want to use spears. And who cares if the videos are not flattering- ever seen a video of a abattoir .
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03-14-2014, 02:48 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
Too weird. Why would a hunting forum not support those who want to use spears. And who cares if the videos are not flattering- ever seen a video of a abattoir .
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IMO the ABA will try to ban any type of hunting tools that could potentially become a part of the archery only season. If they could ban rifles and guns during the general season and make it archery only, they'd do that too. I'm glad that they've come forward with this resolution so more people can see them for what they are.
You'd think that it'd be an anti-hunting group like PETA trying to ramrod the banning of spears and atlalt but no, it the ABA! Who would have thought?
I don't think that the biggest threat to our outdoor activities comes from outsiders....it come from within with already established groups.
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03-14-2014, 06:39 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 103
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I completely agree!
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03-14-2014, 06:41 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 103
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I am a member of the ABA and will be at the GM.
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03-14-2014, 07:04 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertaatlatl
I am a member of the ABA and will be at the GM.
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I'd love to be a fly on the wall
__________________
No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-14-2014, 07:44 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhguy
I'd love to be a fly on the wall
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It may be a good idea for a swarm of flies to be there.
When is it and where?
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03-14-2014, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tox
I think you'll find the ABA is asking for regulation changes and not a ban on entire weapons. At least that will be my vote at the AGM.
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The proposal shown in this thread is for a ban and that is where the mistake was made.
If there is the secondary option of regulating the type of spear/atlatl that can be used fine but the option of a ban should never have even been suggested.
Like I said putting a divide between hunting groups is worse than giving anti's something to complain about because they will be against hunting no matter the method you choose.
You want power to deal with anti's you need all forms of hunter to stand against them. If not when it is your style of hunting that is in the hot seat your voice will be small.
Just look into the amount of countries that bow hunting is banned and it will show you why the ABA should not be putting other hunters under the bus.
All hunting organizations really need to look at the big picture and the ABA is failing at this. It is one thing to protect the rights of a style of hunting but creating enemies out of groups you may need as support in bigger fights is not smart
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03-14-2014, 08:46 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots270
It may be a good idea for a swarm of flies to be there.
When is it and where?
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Had a brain poof.
ABA general meeting at Calgary Archery Centre March 22nd 4:30pm
Ill be there.
All flies come hither.
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03-14-2014, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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disappointed its 3+ hours away
__________________
No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-14-2014, 09:17 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhguy
disappointed its 3+ hours away
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Maybe we could set up a conference video call?
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