Vertical alignment of Rifle and Scope?

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It varies with distance, and whether I am doing the initial sight in. I use the larger cross targets when doing an initial sight in or at longer range, and I use smaller circles in other situations. I don't find one or the other easier to shoot at, and my group size doesn't change.

If you are shooting at a cross then your crosshairs are level to your target. Try to shoot a circle and see if your cant starts to show up more. I think you will be surprised with the results.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

If you are shooting at a cross then your crosshairs are level to your target. Try to shoot a circle and see if your cant starts to show up more. I think you will be surprised with the results.

Without anything to reference I’d suggest that 100% of shooters will can’t their rifles in the field.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

If you are shooting at a cross then your crosshairs are level to your target. Try to shoot a circle and see if your cant starts to show up more. I think you will be surprised with the results.

Try reading the post of mine that you just quoted .

As I posted, I use both, the large targets with crosses,and the small circular targets.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Try reading the post of mine that you just quoted.

Shoot them both at 600 yards and have a look. Shooting both at your zero distance wouldn’t prove anything.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

Without anything to reference I’d suggest that 100% of shooters will can’t their rifles in the field.

Factory rifles are built to fit anybody and everybody so I would think your estimate is at least close.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Shoot them both at 600 yards and have a look. Shooting both at your zero distance wouldn’t prove anything.

I don't shoot at 600 yards. I have shot steel and clays at 500m many times by using my turrets that were zeroed at 100 yards, and I had no issues. If I was canting the scope/rifle by any significant amount, it should have been noticeable on clays, which aren't that large.

Factory rifles are built to fit anybody and everybody so I would think your estimate is at least close

What really matters is how much? If a person cants their firearm/scope by a few degrees randomly, it will soon be evident. If the amount is very small, it will go unnoticed.

[CNP]

I want to say thank you for an enlightening discussion. Nobody's feelings hurt (?) and no one suspended or banned. It's been too cold to even look outside. I'm getting' out of my pyjamas, where I've lived for the past two days, get dressed and get on with something...………………..hey I'm retar er retired.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't shoot at 600 yards. I have shot steel and clays at 500m many times by using my turrets that were zeroed at 100 yards, and I had no issues. If I was canting the scope/rifle by any significant amount, it should have been noticeable on clays, which aren't that large.

Depends if the backboard is a flat point of reference or if something else is. Regardless that’s good you are one of the few that have zero cant. The other 99.9% of the people have a minor to major amount of cant.

[AndrewM]

I agree elkhunter. Minor cant is easily outweighed by changes in wind speed.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Depends if the backboard is a flat point of reference or if something else is. Regardless that’s good you are one of the few that have zero cant. The other 99.9% of the people have a minor to major amount of cant.

No good references at all on the silhouette range, we put up temporary targets to test trajectory, and they were not leveled. I don't claim to have no cant at all, but it hasn't been significant enough to be an issue for me.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't shoot at 600 yards. I have shot steel and clays at 500m many times by using my turrets that were zeroed at 100 yards, and I had no issues. If I was canting the scope/rifle by any significant amount, it should have been noticeable on clays, which aren't that large.



What really matters is how much? If a person cants their firearm/scope by a few degrees randomly, it will soon be evident. If the amount is very small, it will go unnoticed.

That would depend on how much they deviate from each Manufacturers std build, so yes, a large number would fit in the deviation category.. some by a lot, some by a little,some not at all.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

I agree elkhunter. Minor cant is easily outweighed by changes in wind speed.

Our entertainment was watching a group of shooters that would set up their windmeter, range the targets with their rangefinders, enter the wind speed and range, and all of their other data into their phones, and then miss shot after shot on clays until they finally walked the point of impact into the clays, and hit a few. Then they would whine to each other about the windmeter being wrong, or the B.C. of the bullets being wrong, or the chronograph being wrong. They completely missed the fact that the wind could change velocity and direction over 500m.

[Salavee]

[QUOTE=elkhunter11;3925213]I don't shoot at 600 yards. I have shot steel and clays at 500m many times by using my turrets that were zeroed at 100 yards, and I had no issues. If I was canting the scope/rifle by any significant amount, it should have been noticeable on clays, which aren't that large.



What really matters is how much? If a person cants their firearm/scope by a few degrees randomly, it will soon be evident. If the amount is very small, it will go unnoticed.[/QUOTE

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Our entertainment was watching a group of shooters that would set up their windmeter, range the targets with their rangefinders, enter the wind speed and range, and all of their other data into their phones, and then miss shot after shot on clays until they finally walked the point of impact into the clays, and hit a few. Then they would whine to each other about the windmeter being wrong, or the B.C. of the bullets being wrong, or the chronograph being wrong. They completely missed the fact that the wind could change velocity and direction over 500m.

So much error one can introduce at those distances. Problem is most people pick the wrong point of error to focus on. An army vet friend of mine used to always say the spotter determining drop and wind was more important than the shooter for long distances.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by CNP

I want to say thank you for an enlightening discussion. Nobody's feelings hurt (?) and no one suspended or banned. It's been too cold to even look outside. I'm getting' out of my pyjamas, where I've lived for the past two days, get dressed and get on with something...………………..hey I'm retar er retired.

x2. It has been nice debating without the thread getting deleted!

[Don_Parsons]

There's a shooter that has vertigo that shoots Full Bore at a 1000 yards with peep-sights.

How does he get the bullets into the V Ring ?

Only a few of us know the answer to that one. Ha

👍

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

So much error one can introduce at those distances. Problem is most people pick the wrong point of error to focus on. An army vet friend of mine used to always say the spotter determining drop and wind was more important than the shooter for long distances.

They knew where their shots were striking, they just didn't want to accept where the actual point of impact was, because their calculations said it should have been elsewhere.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

They knew where their shots were striking, they just didn't want to accept where the actual point of impact was, because their calculations said it should have been elsewhere.

Reality and assumptions are often deviated! If you don’t understand the math behind it, it is overwhelming on deciding where to start. Sometimes you just need to try and see what happens.

[6.5 shooter]

Silhouette shooters cant their rifles on purpose at very sever angles so they can lock the rifle to their bodies for a more accurate hold from 200- 500 meters, standing on their hind legs. They shoot some of the most accurate rifles in the world rivaled only by bench guns... BUT you never see them out in the gopher fields I wonder why that is ???? Again a static target at a static range you can undo any variations that cant or poor scope alignment built into your system by simply cranking the turrets to a pre determined spot. In the real world of hunting at unknown ranges with unknown variables it is much wiser to eliminate as many variables as possible.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Silhouette shooters cant their rifles on purpose at very sever angles so they can lock the rifle to their bodies for a more accurate hold from 200- 500 meters, standing on their hind legs. They shoot some of the most accurate rifles in the world rivaled only by bench guns... BUT you never see them out in the gopher fields I wonder why that is ???? Again a static target at a static range you can undo any variations that cant or poor scope alignment built into your system by simply cranking the turrets to a pre determined spot. In the real world of hunting at unknown ranges with unknown variables it is much wiser to eliminate as many variables as possible.

0.1-0.8” at 1000 yards is a dead gopher. Don’t think silhouette shooters would have an issue killing gophers. You can’t even adjust most scopes to correct for that. Find another variable to focus on as a level reticle zerod on a canted rifle isn’t your Huckleberry. Wind speed reading and canting your reticle would be my suggestion on where to start.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

0.1-0.8” at 1000 yards is a dead gopher. Don’t think silhouette shooters would have an issue killing gophers. You can’t even adjust most scopes to correct for that. Find another variable to focus on as a level reticle zerod on a canted rifle isn’t your Huckleberry. Wind speed reading and canting your reticle would be my suggestion on where to start.

Bench rest guys shoot to the TEN thousands of an inch to win or to loss. What a guy with TB from a western movie has to do with anything is the real question ?? huckleberry

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Bench rest guys shoot to the TEN thousands of an inch to win or to loss. What a guy with TB from a western movie has to do with anything is the real question ?? huckleberry

Don’t worry about it. I won’t waste my time explaining that either.

[Pathfinder76]

Another one.

https://youtu.be/cjkzXRA0-x4

[6.5 shooter]

[QUOTE=AndrewM;3925434]Don’t worry about it. I won’t waste my time explaining that either.[/Q

NVM

[Off in the Bushes]

Found this neat tool that attaches to the dove tail.