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12-27-2011, 10:32 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs
Talking to a lot of the old boys (before all of the roads such as the shell road down south and other forestry roads) there was way better hunting because of less pressure. It is inevitable that sheep hunting is more accessible now (for example drive down highway 40 and spot a legal ram). Something has to be changed. Plain and simple more sheep are being shot in alberta than ever. .
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you can have any opinion you like.....but the statement quoted is false. the numbers are pretty clear and have been presented many times. there were more sheep hunters back in the 80s and thats also when ram harvest hit its peak. statistically, hunter success has remained quite constant.
there are actually less people hunting sheep today than there was 30 years ago. access has also proven to have no effect. areas that once were off limits to atvs that have been opened up showed no increase in success. the arithmetic is pretty simple.....there are only so many legal rams in this province. that will always be the limiting factor. the strip of mountains along western alberta is just too thin. there is not that much suitable habitat. changing what is available is the only way to improve things. the argument is what change is best.
back to the show......
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12-27-2011, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,260
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Do you have the numbers ISB?
Here's what I can find up to 1989:
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12-27-2011, 11:32 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocks
Do you have the numbers ISB?
Here's what I can find up to 1989:
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i never posted the numbers....but others have in these sheep discussions over the last 2 years.
long term average seemed to be around 150 or so rams per year. the percentage of non res rams is one thing that rubs me wrong. i do believe that we should be sharing the wealth, but in my opinion the non res harvest is too high. seems to me that about 10% of the harvest is a good number to send out. that would mean about 15 rams. given the long term average of around 50% success for outfitters, i think non res tags oughta be around 30.
that would be a good start to appeasing residents, and making things a little more palatable on that end. as for the answer to improve hunting for residents....lots of ideas, and lots of guys that hate every single one of them. id bet about the same number that hate the stauts quo.
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12-27-2011, 04:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocks
Do you have the numbers ISB?
Here's what I can find up to 1989:
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The numbers for Licenced hunters and Resident/Outfitter Rams harvested from '61-'07 are in here.
http://media.nwsgc.org/proceedings/N...%20alberta.pdf
Since Licenced harvest is remaining stable, and the overall sheep population is stable, why are some areas experiencing a shortfall of mature rams?
Predators, Poachers and Treaty harvest MUST be responsible in part for the Missing Rams.
Not much can be done about Treaty Harvest. But SRD sure could put some effort into a Predator and Poacher Cull.
A question to SRD....Assuming a Resident draw is established in WMU's of concern.
What will you propose next if restricting Licenced Resident hunters does not achieve the results desired in the Ram population? Will you limit Residents further while doing little regarding Predators and Poachers?
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12-27-2011, 04:58 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeren AB
Posts: 884
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I think predators are a major key in those areas. We need to put a bounty on wolves aand maybe cougars in certain areas. That would help on the real problem. I do not think this is much placing with sheep. And native kills I am not going there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
The numbers for Licenced hunters and Resident/Outfitter Rams harvested from '61-'07 are in here.
http://media.nwsgc.org/proceedings/N...%20alberta.pdf
Since Licenced harvest is remaining stable, and the overall sheep population is stable, why are some areas experiencing a shortfall of mature rams?
Predators, Poachers and Treaty harvest MUST be responsible in part for the Missing Rams.
Not much can be done about Treaty Harvest. But SRD sure could put some effort into a Predator and Poacher Cull.
A question to SRD....Assuming a Resident draw is established in WMU's of concern.
What will you propose next if restricting Licenced Resident hunters does not achieve the results desired in the Ram population? Will you limit Residents further while doing little regarding Predators and Poachers?
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12-27-2011, 05:50 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Go figure, in all the transplanting that has been done only six different times have they move Sheep around inside of alberta and the majority have been transplanted in the States. Now if SRD was so worried about the health of sheep in this great province, why aren't they moving more sheep around Alberta, or are they more concerned about helping out the States, and who pays to move the sheep to the States.
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12-27-2011, 06:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeren AB
Posts: 884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
Go figure, in all the transplanting that has been done only six different times have they move Sheep around inside of alberta and the majority have been transplanted in the States. Now if SRD was so worried about the health of sheep in this great province, why aren't they moving more sheep around Alberta, or are they more concerned about helping out the States, and who pays to move the sheep to the States.
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I agree on this one... Also why do we not have badland sheep like Montana did???? we would have a great herd there as well if we did that and they would stay in Alberta....
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12-27-2011, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
Go figure, in all the transplanting that has been done only six different times have they move Sheep around inside of alberta and the majority have been transplanted in the States. Now if SRD was so worried about the health of sheep in this great province, why aren't they moving more sheep around Alberta, or are they more concerned about helping out the States, and who pays to move the sheep to the States.
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There is another thing they can't do right. It's getting a little late for that. The party at Cadomin has imploded. As it was bound to do. I had a wildlife expert tell me I was a fool when I mentioned two years ago that there would be a major die off there within the next five years.
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
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12-27-2011, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
There is another thing they can't do right. It's getting a little late for that. The party at Cadomin has imploded. As it was bound to do. I had a wildlife expert tell me I was a fool when I mentioned two years ago that there would be a major die off there within the next five years.
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Been a lot of people saying that's an inevitability for many years. Where did all the Sheep River Sanctuary rams go?
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12-27-2011, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Been a lot of people saying that's an inevitability for many years. Where did all the Sheep River Sanctuary rams go?
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There are COUNTLESS screw ups that could be cited when it comes to this Provinces wildlife management. It will never change as long as the same sheep keep voting for the same shepard.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-27-2011, 06:52 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeren AB
Posts: 884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Been a lot of people saying that's an inevitability for many years. Where did all the Sheep River Sanctuary rams go?
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In the last 4 years the biggest got ran over. The 2 next biggest got shot by natives. There are some that just get shot out side of the park.But all and all nothing left there...I saw 17 rams last summer out there together.. But man are numbers nothing like Cadomin for either ram or ewe.... I was at Cadomin and there are still plenty they could transplant around the province to fix or start new hwerds...
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12-27-2011, 10:15 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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It would be interesting to know what FNAWS alberta chapters stand is on these changes that are supposedly coming to sheep hunting, or are they in favour of it. Does anybody know?
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12-27-2011, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin.C
In the last 4 years the biggest got ran over. The 2 next biggest got shot by natives. There are some that just get shot out side of the park.But all and all nothing left there...I saw 17 rams last summer out there together.. But man are numbers nothing like Cadomin for either ram or ewe.... I was at Cadomin and there are still plenty they could transplant around the province to fix or start new hwerds...
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I was kind of asking where all the sheep had gone in Sheep River. Numbers are way down. More than a couple getting shot.
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12-27-2011, 10:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Been a lot of people saying that's an inevitability for many years. Where did all the Sheep River Sanctuary rams go?
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Isn't there cattle running around there as well as the rest of the 400 zones, could that have something to do with it as well?
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12-27-2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
Isn't there cattle running around there as well as the rest of the 400 zones, could that have something to do with it as well?
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Not sure......
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12-27-2011, 10:36 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeren AB
Posts: 884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
It would be interesting to know what FNAWS alberta chapters stand is on these changes that are supposedly coming to sheep hunting, or are they in favour of it. Does anybody know?
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I was told they were for it... But that is here say.
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12-27-2011, 10:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeren AB
Posts: 884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
I was kind of asking where all the sheep had gone in Sheep River. Numbers are way down. More than a couple getting shot.
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I know... There was a big die off froma sickness.. Also lots getting killed from wolves and cougars. I was stating as of the last couple years....
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12-27-2011, 10:40 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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The cattle could have an impact on the health of sheep herds too, but yet nobody is doing anything about this problem either (money talks) I guess!!!!
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12-27-2011, 10:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeren AB
Posts: 884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
Isn't there cattle running around there as well as the rest of the 400 zones, could that have something to do with it as well?
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That could very well be a valid question...
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12-27-2011, 10:44 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin.C
I know... There was a big die off froma sickness.. Also lots getting killed from wolves and cougars. I was stating as of the last couple years....
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We watched a cat putting a stock on 7 Rams luckily they managed to escape, but just barely as the cat was just inches from getting one. It was an incredible sight to see.
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12-27-2011, 10:46 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeren AB
Posts: 884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
We watched a cat putting a stock on 7 Rams luckily they managed to escape, but just barely as the cat was just inches from getting one. It was an incredible sight to see.
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when was that??? I have seen lots of big bad critter in there more than once... That is a real big problem in all the province....
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12-27-2011, 10:51 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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It was a couple years ago.
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12-27-2011, 11:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin.C
.... Also lots getting killed from wolves and cougars.....
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i would venture a guess that cougars are more of a problem,yet SRD does nothing to make hunting these cats possible.
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12-28-2011, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
i would venture a guess that cougars are more of a problem,yet SRD does nothing to make hunting these cats possible.
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Yup, I know where there are several big cats right now on established sheep winter range and it is closed to anyone even walking in with dogs.
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12-28-2011, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin.C
I know... There was a big die off froma sickness.. Also lots getting killed from wolves and cougars. I was stating as of the last couple years....
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When was the die off? What sickness?
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12-28-2011, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
When was the die off? What sickness?
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Which die off? '78, 85-86, 93-95?
Some would say they were protected and studied to death.
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12-28-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Which die off? '78, 85-86, 93-95?
Some would say they were protected and studied to death.
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There has been something more recent though. What did they die from?
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12-28-2011, 09:19 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,391
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Y not make it a pay to play deal 600 a tag over the counter should do it
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12-28-2011, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopher
Y not make it a pay to play deal 600 a tag over the counter should do it
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I'm not a huge fan of pricing a public resource out of reach of the average Alberta hunter but no doubt it would work. It was considered by SRD but has been dropped as an idea.
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12-28-2011, 09:27 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On a farm
Posts: 1,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopher
Y not make it a pay to play deal 600 a tag over the counter should do it
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the average alberta hunter should be allowed to buy that tag for a reasonable amount There are better sollutions than that !
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Living for the adventure, enjoying the ride ! BRAD
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