Paid Hunting

[bchap22]

Im just curious Atimos or whatever you handle is did you just join up to start trolling on this thread. Correct me if i am wrong but you said you don't hunt in an earlier thread. Correct me if im wrong but the majority of forum members are hunters and outdoorsmen/women concerned about wildlife and issues surrounding hunting and fishing. From what i have read you have not contributed anything to the discussion other than blowing your own horn about how great your property is for hunting and ya know what im happy for you. You are delusional if you think your going to ever get paid hunting legalized. Your greed will be the start of your own demise. Yes there may be poachers that visit your land and im sure they are very sneaky and slimy like they all are and hard to catch. If you allowed some law abiding hunters on to regulate your property you wouldn't have a lot better chance of catching these losers that are breaking the law or shooting you livestock. There is a way for hunters and landowners to co-exist in a positive relationship but at the end of the day you need to step down of your pedestal and stop looking down on all hunters.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

JRsMav - Guys like you don't scare me one bit!! Your probably one of those guys that dosn't have a tree on your property and bring your hunting problem to us with bush! We use the term and call them Canola Hunters.

Well I live and hunt the bad lands so I guess I as well should be named a Canola hunter ? By your statement, anyone that resides in areas of agriculture and minimal trees would be problematic in the bush ?

You sir are completely out of line and it is no wonder why even fish and wildlife don't listen to your ramblings as you indicated in an earlier post.

[cal9mm]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

The problem in Alberta is just going to get worst! Last year the population of Alberta increased by 98,000 people.They claim the increase of 100,000 people per year for the next 10 years.This makes a 1,000,000 population increase by the year 2022.General hunting licenses and hunting territory are going to come to a crunch!!
For the people that are mad at paid hunting and guides, I'm not scared to stick my neck out and blame the horn shows for being the biggest culprit.Ruthless poachers will do anything to win that prize.I know scumbags that have shot up to 10 bucks in 1 season and left the small ones [140-150s]for the coyotes and magpies to eat.I here gunshots every year 1 week after season closed just before the horn show in the dark of early evenings.Its not hard to figure out who's the professional poachers at the horn shows,there the ones that bring in a Boone and Crockett every year.
As for my farm livestock that got shot with no compensation I am for paid access hunting. I'm going to get my money out of the hunting kitty $$ one way or another.

I know I said I was done but......

You assume a lot in your posts.

Like assuming we don't know what a poacher is or does.

And all hunters that take trophies shoot small bucks then leave them until we get a big one were happy with.

And that by charging us will make it all go away or better for you.

We do know there is a problem, however, by your admission you know people who do these things, and if you or very few very lucky ppl you let hunt on your land are not documenting and reporting them, then your part of the problem not the solution. And I assume you don't document and report because of your incessant whining that's it's our fault and you want compensation. Take responsibility for your own inaction.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

JRsMav - Guys like you don't scare me one bit!! Your probably one of those guys that dosn't have a tree on your property and bring your hunting problem to us with bush! We use the term and call them Canola Hunters.

Actually Jrsmav has posted some quality comments on this post and I'm sure no one here is trying to scare you. You seemed to have digressed into name calling however. Some advise my old man gave me as a young man might apply, "keep your trap shut and people will only think your ignorant".

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by cal9mm

I know I said I was done but......

You assume a lot in your posts.

Like assuming we don't know what a poacher is or does.

And all hunters that take trophies shoot small bucks then leave them until we get a big one were happy with.

And that by charging us will make it all go away or better for you.

We do know there is a problem, however, by your admission you know people who do these things, and if you or very few very lucky ppl you let hunt on your land are not documenting and reporting them, then your part of the problem not the solution. And I assume you don't document and report because of your incessant whining that's it's our fault and you want compensation. Take responsibility for your own inaction.

Keep it coming..... the more informed and intelligent posts the better!!

To atimoseman I believe there is a compensation fund for shot livestock.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by 12DLT

Actually Jrsmav has posted some quality comments on this post and I'm sure no one here is trying to scare you. You seemed to have digressed into name calling however. Some advise my old man gave me as a young man might apply, "keep your trap shut and people will only think your ignorant".

Haha..."Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool,then to open it and remove all doubt."

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Thats part of the problem too many bone collectors and killers of trophies and not enough hunters . Just like fishing and catching one is a sport, one is done with little regard for the resources and is about the result not the journey.

Totally disagree on this statement. 95% of people who say they are trophy hunters shoot the first decent animal they see. Far from the trophies that true trophy hunters shoot. As for this statement it is a choice which for the most part does not hold any ground in this argument.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Actually WB your reference to the Rainbow Society Trail Ride Charitable event where the idiot fell of a horse is completely different than anyone asking for permission to access lands for recreational purposes.

The trail ride was an "event" where liability insurance is required when hosting, similar to any event..

Asking recreational permission is completely different and I stand by my original statement.

Sleadhead71 you are correct.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

Sleadhead71 you are correct.

Not disagreeing with your post or the one it replies to but I am finding it more common that some landowners are having people sign off on landowner liability before granting access.

Which I don't have a problem with.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

Totally disagree on this statement. 95% of people who say they are trophy hunters shoot the first decent animal they see. Far from the trophies that true trophy hunters shoot. As for this statement it is a choice which for the most part does not hold any ground in this argument.

I agree with you 100%, in many cases, the real trophy hunters have more respect for the animal, and the game population, than many of the people that just want to fill a tag.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I agree with you 100%, in many cases, the real trophy hunters have more respect for the animal, and the game population, than many of the people that just want to fill a tag.

A "meat" deer, moose, elk is a real trophy to a lot of guys and it's my opinion that those hunters have just as much respect for the animal, etc. Disregard if you were being sarcastic.

[cal9mm]

Originally Posted by IR_mike

Keep it coming..... the more informed and intelligent posts the better!!

To atimoseman I believe there is a compensation fund for shot livestock.

Its amazing man!

My perception is he's stereotyped us into being Dumb rednecks and hillbillies.

However he's failing to understand that today's real hillbillies and rednecks can be very well edumacated, be informed on current events, and have our own informed opinions. On top going rea real fast and turning left.

Someone earlier said we're talking "what if's" and he's right. There's lots of what if's here. The One thing I think we can all agree on is something will happen with our passion eventually. "What if" nothing happens, nothing happens, no change, I look like an idiot but at least I've gotten ppl thinking about the what if's.

"What if" something does happen. Well even if we fail to have our voices heard, we had meaningful conversation about it.

"If you fail to plan, you plan to fail", realistic "what if's" make you ask the questions covering the possible eventualities. Without asking those questions you fail to develop contingencies to the possible outcomes, leading to people feeling victimized and wanting.

Nothing changes for the rest of us because we prepared.

[grinr]

Gimme a break!Guys shooting 10 or 12 150s and leave'em lay before they poach a 180 to hang their tag on week after season closes is just plain BS.
Seriously,where do people come with this nonsense??

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

The problem in Alberta is just going to get worst! Last year the population of Alberta increased by 98,000 people.They claim the increase of 100,000 people per year for the next 10 years.This makes a 1,000,000 population increase by the year 2022.General hunting licenses and hunting territory are going to come to a crunch!!
.

Your argument is not valid. Demographics show the number of hunters to be decreasing.

http://publications.gc.ca/collection...46-12-366E.pdf. Older study but trends hold.

The average hunter and fisherman prefers seclusion over a canned hunt/fish.

The demographic for canned trophy hunts is low. Bragging rights are not public as one would be laughed at.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by cal9mm

Its amazing man!

My perception is he's stereotyped us into being Dumb rednecks and hillbillies.

However he's failing to understand that today's real hillbillies and rednecks can be very well edumacated, be informed on current events, and have our own informed opinions. On top going rea real fast and turning left.

Someone earlier said we're talking "what if's" and he's right. There's lots of what if's here. The One thing I think we can all agree on is something will happen with our passion eventually. "What if" nothing happens, nothing happens, no change, I look like an idiot but at least I've gotten ppl thinking about the what if's.

"What if" something does happen. Well even if we fail to have our voices heard, we had meaningful conversation about it.

"If you fail to plan, you plan to fail", realistic "what if's" make you ask the questions covering the possible eventualities. Without asking those questions you fail to develop contingencies to the possible outcomes, leading to people feeling victimized and wanting.

Nothing changes for the rest of us because we prepared.

He's come on to the " albertaoutdoorsman" forum to advocate for paid access. He is getting just what he was fishing for, and we fell for it. I'm so ashamed.

[cal9mm]

Originally Posted by 12DLT

He's come on to the " albertaoutdoorsman" forum to advocate for paid access. He is getting just what he was fishing for, and we fell for. I'm so ashamed.

Me too, I feel dumber.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by 12DLT

He's come on to the " albertaoutdoorsman" forum to advocate for paid access. He is getting just what he was fishing for, and we fell for it. I'm so ashamed.

Exactly.
Join date,Dec 2013
Total posts 8
Find all posts: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/searc...rchid=11842190

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

Totally disagree on this statement. 95% of people who say they are trophy hunters shoot the first decent animal they see. Far from the trophies that true trophy hunters shoot. As for this statement it is a choice which for the most part does not hold any ground in this argument.

Sorry sir you post is a bit vauge, who would do the paying??? I for the most part am very fortunate ,I would never have to pay as I have a good relationship with hundreds of land owners due in part to my employment and fishing. I have permission to many many quarters even complete sections of multi owner lands.this is without networking thru the form or friends.
Now,a hunter is a person in pursuit of game. At no point does that Iindicate success. if we look at those that pay to play in the tipping thread, many believe success should alter restatution , performance based so to speak . In this we see little or a lessend appreciation of the hunt and the kill is the object.
Now my experience is somewhat limited with paid hunts , an old boss related a story of driving a canned area in sask with a guide. This ride was the price list intro. That bucks 2g this ones 4g that moose is 7 and so on. No one has ever related a 2k doe. ??? Could you please explain why this is??

[elkhunter11]

A "meat" deer, moose, elk is a real trophy to a lot of guys and it's my opinion that those hunters have just as much respect for the animal, etc. Disregard if you were being sarcastic.

If you look at what I posted, you will see that I posted "in many cases", not "in all cases".

My point, was that contrary to the previous post, that I was referring to, not all trophy hunters see the animals that they harvest, as just bone or horn. Many trophy hunters have every bit as much respect for game animals, and the game populations, as any other hunter, and in some cases, even more.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by grinr

Gimme a break!Guys shooting 10 or 12 150s and leave'em lay before they poach a 180 to hang their tag on week after season closes is just plain BS.
Seriously,where do people come with this nonsense??

No BS

In 2008 In a area roughly 16 square miles I found 28 shot and left deer.

5 where large bodied bucks with the heads removed and the rest were small bucks, fawns, and does left intact.

I regularly set up targets on a grazing lease on the north side of the Beaver river in wmu 502 where the rifle season is in november.

The lease holder has his cows off in September so I get a month and a bit where I shoot every evening I can.

I regularly hear single rifle shots from across the river and from the surrounding area sometimes quite a while after legal light while me and my shooting partners are having a BS session after its too dark to shoot.

I have a friend who lives and bow hunts directly south of this lease and he hears the same after legal light.

What you questioned is a very regular occurrence province wide as there is a very publicised situation of this nature happening in the Edson area presently.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...+area+poachers

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you look at what I posted, you will see that I posted "in many cases", not "in all cases".

My point, was that contrary to the previous post, that I was referring to, not all trophy hunters see the animals that they harvest, as just bone or horn. Many trophy hunters have every bit as much respect for game animals, and the game populations, as any other hunter, and in some cases, even more.

Gotcha, this thread is making everybody (me) a little jumpy, didn't sound like what you normally post at first read.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I agree with you 100%, in many cases, the real trophy hunters have more respect for the animal, and the game population, than many of the people that just want to fill a tag.

I agree with this. Spend a lot more time in the field with the animals in most cases and a lot more time studying/learning about the animals too.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Don K

I agree with this. Spend a lot more time in the field with the animals in most cases and a lot more time studying/learning about the animals too.

Imo the hunt is result driven , ie the very people that will pay . Of course we all want that 4×4or a B&C deer however the repulsive America paid pet hunts have removed most if not all chances of a free range critter getting top billing. I understand many horn killers have a great respect for thier prey in canada , watching mangment practices in the US where the shooter will be giving the carcass away due to perceived pressure on feed and mates as a complete lack of respect.

[bison]

Year before last i had a big old boat of a car with 7-8 guys in it i never seen before drive into my yard one morning during hunt season asking for permission to hunt a hayfield just south of my house were they seen a handfull bucks.
I said, sorry guys ,..i don't know you guys from Adam and there are to many of you anyway, I can't let you start a war here.
Their answer!... "F you then"... and they drove off.
About 3/4 hour later i left for town to pick up a couple things and seen that same car sit along the road south of that hayfield, when i got closer all these guys started piling out of the bush and got in the car.
When i stopped to ask what the 'ell they were thinking getting on my land anyway after been told no,.they stomped on the throttle and drove of spitting gravel behind them with 4 middle fingers showing from the windows.

This ain't the only one of these stories.

Just saying.

[J D]

Originally Posted by bison

Year before last i had a big old boat of a car with 7-8 guys in it i never seen before drive into my yard one morning during hunt season asking for permission to hunt a hayfield just south of my house were they seen a handfull bucks.
I said, sorry guys ,..i don't know you guys from Adam and there are to many of you anyway, I can't let you start a war here.
Their answer!... "F you then"... and they drove off.
About 3/4 hour later i left for town to pick up a couple things and seen that same car sit along the road south of that hayfield, when i got closer all these guys started piling out of the bush and got in the car.
When i stopped to ask what the 'ell they were thinking getting on my land anyway after been told no,.they stomped on the throttle and drove of spitting gravel behind them with 4 middle fingers showing from the windows.

This ain't the only one of these stories.

Just saying.

This is where more enforcement is need

Unfortunately idiots like you just mentioned are bad for landowners and honest hunters. If a landowner keeps having problems with idiots it does not surprise me that they don't want to risk giving a hunter they don't know permission nor do I blame them.


Making it pay hunting would only hurt the honest hunter and the idiot poacher will still do as they always have regardless

[elkhunter11]

Imo the hunt is result driven , ie the very people that will pay . Of course we all want that 4×4or a B&C deer however the repulsive America paid pet hunts have removed most if not all chances of a free range critter getting top billing.

You are way out to lunch with your stereotyping. I am very choosy about the deer that I will shoot, but I don't get upset like some non trophy hunters do, if they don't fill all of their tags. In fact, I haven't shot a whitetail in a few years, and I have no regrets about passing up many bucks in that time. I hunt with a couple of friends that feel the same way that I do, and I know several other hunters that often let their tags go to waste, because they didn't find the animal that they wanted

As to free range animals not getting top billing, you couldn't be more wrong. The most famous animals are the free ranging animals, because they can be entered in the B&C or P&Y record books, while the high fenced animals can't. And that applies just as much or more in the USA.

Year before last i had a big old boat of a car with 7-8 guys in it i never seen before drive into my yard one morning during hunt season asking for permission to hunt a hayfield just south of my house were they seen a handfull bucks.
I said, sorry guys ,..i don't know you guys from Adam and there are to many of you anyway, I can't let you start a war here.
Their answer!... "F you then"... and they drove off.
About 3/4 hour later i left for town to pick up a couple things and seen that same car sit along the road south of that hayfield, when i got closer all these guys started piling out of the bush and got in the car.
When i stopped to ask what the 'ell they were thinking getting on my land anyway after been told no,.they stomped on the throttle and drove of spitting gravel behind them with 4 middle fingers showing from the windows.

This ain't the only one of these stories.

Yes there are idiots like that around, but going to paid access isn't going to stop them from doing what they are doing now. In fact, they just won't bother stopping to ask for permission, so you won't get to see them up close, so that you can identify them later.

[fish gunner]

When you limit access to 50000ha you dont need fences. Tell me the spider bull was not paid access.

[elkhunter11]

When you limit access to 50000ha you dont need fences

If there are no fences, to keep an animal from leaving, it's free ranging. And free range is your term, not mine.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If there are no fences, to keep an animal from leaving, it's free ranging. And free range is your term, not mine.

Were discussing paid access . The uk has little or few fences in many areas however its not free range or access. The system ours was intended not to be. most you seem to want to disagree with me as opposed to making a for or against comment on paid access I apologise if I missed that post .

[elkhunter11]

Were discussing paid access . The uk has little or few fences in many areas however its not free range or access. The system ours was intended not to be. most you seem to want to disagree with me as opposed to making a for or against comment on paid access I apologise if I missed that post .

Thankfully, we live in Alberta , and not the UK. The UK is a perfect example of how not to legislate firearms ownership, or how not to manage game populations. If paid access is allowed in Alberta, it will be due to the backward kind of thinking that makes the UK what it is today.