Oilers Fans Matter

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Trochu

There is no denying that, but there are some big differences. If all you assess is playoff appearances, without taking into account the draft picks, regular season record/competitiveness, rotation of head coaches, having analysts wonder if they are the worst dynasty in all big four professional sports of all time, setting failing records in the modern era, etc., they are pretty even. If those factors are considered, its not even close. You yourself just compared a bad 25 game stretch of Flames hockey to the Oilers, which is better than the Oilers average over the last 10 years. Kind of like saying losing 10-1 vs 3-2 in OT is the same, because you lost both times.

What dummy said that? The problem with that theory is the modern era started with the expansion of the NHL from the original 6. Having 5 cups over their lifetime of 38 years and the second last Canadian to make the cup finals is hardly the worst team in the modern era. Ask any player or even the best coach in the game today, and they will all state you are judged for greatness by how many rings you have. (Babcock's response when asked who was better, Crosby or McDavid)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005632.html

Oilers had had 1 real bad bust in Yak, other than that all the 1st rounders have done well. Hall was moved for a dressing room issue plain and simple. Yeah the Oilers have gotten really lucky on 2 lotteries, but without the lotteries they would have very similar drafts to Calgary ( that if Calgary didn't trade them away). If you are going to take into account the Oilers drafts then you need the take into account the players Calgary obtained by trading their picks away. The 1 thing Calgary has had is some great late round surprises... Edmonton not so much.

[1899b]

...

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Tell us what you believe and how you would fix the current situation to make them 22 and 7 team over the balance of the rest of the season?

I personally would love to hear what you believe?

BW

I think there is zero chance they are going 22-7 over the next 29 and think they should purse Hughes. That being said, if the goal is the playoffs, why not change things up instead of running what obviously hasn't been working the entire season?

-Why not try starting Shane Starrett? He is older and was putting up better numbers in the AHL than Carter Hart. I know the defense isn't great, but Talbot and Mikko at a combined average 0.850 SA% over their last five outings isn't helping. Why not play Starrett, see what he brings, and it should also help evaluate if Talbot gets resigned for next season.

-Start benching the problems. I'd rather see Puljujarvis skating around out there giving 100%, and making the odd mental mistake, than Draisaitl making less mistakes but giving 80% (making the names up...).

-Get Sekera back.

-Why not try Tyler Benson on the wing with McDavid? It might work, it might not, but he's not going to be any worse than Rattie and his 3 goals or Lucic and his 5, is he?

-You've got one of the greatest forwards in the game and the defense isn't great, maybe stop trying to play a defensive game.

-Only if they'd sign, but move heaven and earth to see if you can get Mark Stone or Artemi Panarin.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

What dummy said that? The problem with that theory is the modern era started with the expansion of the NHL from the original 6. Having 5 cups over their lifetime of 38 years and the second last Canadian to make the cup finals is hardly the worst team in the modern era. Ask any player or even the best coach in the game today, and they will all state you are judged for greatness by how many rings you have. (Babcock's response when asked who was better, Crosby or McDavid)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005632.html

Oilers had had 1 real bad bust in Yak, other than that all the 1st rounders have done well. Hall was moved for a dressing room issue plain and simple. Yeah the Oilers have gotten really lucky on 2 lotteries, but without the lotteries they would have very similar drafts to Calgary ( that if Calgary didn't trade them away). If you are going to take into account the Oilers drafts then you need the take into account the players Calgary obtained by trading their picks away. The 1 thing Calgary has had is some great late round surprises... Edmonton not so much.

So then Edmonton is really doing a lot better than we think somehow....? I honestly don't know where you are going with all the comparisons, if you really think the Oilers are still a great team and always have been and will be? Ok, leave things the way they are if it's been a successful decade long rebuild, everything is good....

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Run Katz out of town. Pretty sure he could over ride pc stupid decisions but chose not to. Start with the owner imo. Not that we have a choice......

How is running Katz out of town going to get us into the playoffs in April 2019?

How is that going to make Manning a better player, Benning a better player, Talbot a better player, Koskinen a better player...

BW

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

So then Edmonton is really doing a lot better than we think somehow....? I honestly don't know where you are going with all the comparisons, if you really think the Oilers are still a great team and always have been and will be? Ok, leave things the way they are if it's been a successful decade long rebuild, everything is good....

No I was responding to the "worst team ever" in the modern era comment. Oilers suck right now and other that 2016/17, they have for a long while. I took my father to game last night, I saw the jersey flung on the ice and another torn to shreads on the sidewalk. My Dad is a long time Leafs fan and he was disappointed by the play in the 3rd and but he was disgusted by the disrespect for the jersey... sad times.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

What dummy said that? The problem with that theory is the modern era started with the expansion of the NHL from the original 6. Having 5 cups over their lifetime of 38 years and the second last Canadian to make the cup finals is hardly the worst team in the modern era. Ask any player or even the best coach in the game today, and they will all state you are judged for greatness by how many rings you have. (Babcock's response when asked who was better, Crosby or McDavid)

Someone stated it in this thread and then someone else questioned it by thinking the Brown's had that honor. And I clearly didn't say worst team in the modern era, they obviously are not, I said worst dynasty in the modern era, aka, 2010 to 20xx.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Someone stated it in this thread and then someone else questioned it by thinking the Brown's had that honor. It's not a theory, and I didn't say worst team in the modern era, they clearly are not, I said worst dynasty in the modern era, aka, 2010 to 20xx.

Yes, the last 9 out of 10 years have been terrible.... it certainly tests the commitment of the fans.

[sgill808]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Someone stated it in this thread and then someone else questioned it by thinking the Brown's had that honor. And I clearly didn't say worst team in the modern era, they obviously are not, I said worst dynasty in the modern era, aka, 2010 to 20xx.

I stated this, i must have misheard it over the radio. The oilers are not the worst franchise in sports in North America. Keep up the good work.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

How is running Katz out of town going to get us into the playoffs in April 2019?

How is that going to make Manning a better player, Benning a better player, Talbot a better player, Koskinen a better player...

BW

It’s not. But ultimately he let this crap show go down. Wouldn’t the owner have the final say on these big bungled deals? Do owners let there management keep bungling things up or does he step in and correct what needs correcting. I blame everything on Katz. He needs to grow a set.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

No I was responding to the "worst team ever" in the modern era comment. Oilers suck right now and other that 2016/17, they have for a long while. I took my father to game last night, I saw the jersey flung on the ice and another torn to shreads on the sidewalk. My Dad is a long time Leafs fan and he was disappointed by the play in the 3rd and but he was disgusted by the disrespect for the jersey... sad times.

OK, gotcha, thanks for clarifying..I was skimming thread while waiting for appointment with doc and missed that. I agree with you too.

On the bright side my blood pressure is 110/70, and I am in good health apparently for being 52...I go in for my annual physical every four or five years, had some time today and the wife has been 'encouraging' me *cough*nagging*cough* to go for a physical.

So that's something.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

It’s not. But ultimately he let this crap show go down. Wouldn’t the owner have the final say on these big bungled deals? Do owners let there management keep bungling things up or does he step in and correct what needs correcting. I blame everything on Katz. He needs to grow a set.

Go ahead blame Katz. If it makes you feel better.

BW

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Go ahead blame Katz. If it makes you feel better.

BW

Who do you blame?

[sgill808]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

OK, gotcha, thanks for clarifying..I was skimming thread while waiting for appointment with doc and missed that. I agree with you too.

On the bright side my blood pressure is 110/70, and I am in good health apparently for being 52...I go in for my annual physical every four or five years, had some time today and the wife has been 'encouraging' me *cough*nagging*cough* to go for a physical.

So that's something.

Good work! A dram a day keeps the doctor away!

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Why weren't all the Flames fans last year during the final 10-15 banding together and leaving the saddle dome empty? The Flames are having their first dominate year since they won the cup. Might be a little early for the Flames to write a "GM for Dummies" book!

I actually thought some of your comments were intelligent till this comment...YOU blew it....25 games in one season does not even compare to the Oilers seasons the last 10 years....

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

It’s not. But ultimately he let this crap show go down. Wouldn’t the owner have the final say on these big bungled deals? Do owners let there management keep bungling things up or does he step in and correct what needs correcting. I blame everything on Katz. He needs to grow a set.

I agree....A real business owner would not sit around and accept being the laughing stock around the league....Money is one thing but pride of owning a successful business would be my number one priority! I cannot even walk into a Rexall store without feeling embarrassed...

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Who do you blame?

I blame Chia for this mess. He had Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Draisitl, Nurse, Klefbom and was gifted McDavid.

At the time defense and Goaltending needed addressing. Got a heck of a deal from Sather for Talbot.

He then traded 2 picks for Reinhardt strike one. Could of drafted Barzel with the 16th overall pick

Hall for Larsson was a bad deal, should have gotten at least a second rounder or a prospect from Jersey

Couldn't figure see how the league was moving towards, skill and signed Lucic for 7 years bad contract 3 years should have been the top.

He should of had McLeland fire Schwartz along with the rest of the assistant coaches last spring.

If I were Darrel Katz I'd be ****ed at Bob Nicholson, for allowing this to go on. NO I wouldn't fire Nicholson just yet, he'd be given this chance to get things right. I think Katz is as big a fan of the team as anyone else. He knows he's not a hockey man, he's a fan. His skill set is making money and developing real estate.

He's smart enough to layer his management and Nicholson is the guy with the hammer right now.

His Oiler buddies are there to open doors and make business other than hockey happen.

If Nicholson, doesn't get it right this time, he'll be gone.

I'm not sure who the right GM is for this team. But who ever they hire, better know to hire a capologist with a good understanding of the CBA.

If I was GM, the only safe players would be 97, 93, 29, 25, 77, 6, and 39 with the right contract. The rest of the team would be for sale or trade, I'd take picks or pucks.

BW

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I blame Chia for this mess. He had Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Draisitl, Nurse, Klefbom and was gifted McDavid.

At the time defense and Goaltending needed addressing. Got a heck of a deal from Sather for Talbot.

He then traded 2 picks for Reinhardt strike one. Could of drafted Barzel with the 16th overall pick

Hall for Larsson was a bad deal, should have gotten at least a second rounder or a prospect from Jersey

Couldn't figure see how the league was moving towards, skill and signed Lucic for 7 years bad contract 3 years should have been the top.

He should of had McLeland fire Schwartz along with the rest of the assistant coaches last spring.

If I were Darrel Katz I'd be ****ed at Bob Nicholson, for allowing this to go on. NO I wouldn't fire Nicholson just yet, he'd be given this chance to get things right. I think Katz is as big a fan of the team as anyone else. He knows he's not a hockey man, he's a fan. His skill set is making money and developing real estate.

He's smart enough to layer his management and Nicholson is the guy with the hammer right now.

His Oiler buddies are there to open doors and make business other than hockey happen.

If Nicholson, doesn't get it right this time, he'll be gone.

I'm not sure who the right GM is for this team. But who ever they hire, better know to hire a capologist with a good understanding of the CBA.

If I was GM, the only safe players would be 97, 93, 29, 25, 77, 6, and 39 with the right contract. The rest of the team would be for sale or trade, I'd take picks or pucks.

BW

So basically it’s everyone else but Katz fault. I see.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

So basically it’s everyone else but Katz fault. I see.

Thats what I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Hi6uf0fiM

BW

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

If I was GM, the only safe players would be 97, 93, 29, 25, 77, 6, and 39 with the right contract. The rest of the team would be for sale or trade, I'd take picks or pucks.

BW

The problem with that is you're keeping everybody anybody would want, as I'm assuming you inadvertently left Bouchard off your list, with the possible exception being Puljujarvi. I don't see people lining up at the door for the opportunity to take on Rattie, Malone, Cave, Brodziak, Manning, Petrovic..... If anything, I suspect you'd have to eat salary to move some of them, even getting nothing back in return. Why Chia traded for Manning for example is beyond me.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Without bring the cups into it (5 vs 1), here how the teams match up since 1990

Oilers

Playoffs missed 17
Rounds won 7
1 Finals appearance

Calgary

Playoffs missed 15
Rounds won 1
1 Finals appearance

Those numbers are probably going to change with the Oilers going to 18 and the Flame might win a couple rounds, but don't tell the Flames have not had their fair share of weak years.

Sorry not sure where you got your numbers but they are clearly not right, as it is impossible for the flames to have a made a Stanley cup appearance and only win 1 playoff round.

Why use 1990, why not start comparing from this century isn't enough. We are almost 20 years in. I suspect you wanted to use the last year the Oilers won the cup to boost your rounds won stat.

At the end of the day the last 20 years the Flames have missed the playoffs a number of times as well, the difference is the games have been meaningful almost every year, until close to the end of the season. Personally if I was an Oilers fan this year and was offered free tickets (assuming I had seen Connor play live at some point already) I would pass on the tickets. It wouldn't be worth paying for parking/beers/popcorn etc. to watch a game like that.

Yes the Oilers were a dynasty in the 80's they are not anymore. If you want to talk about stats in this century

1. The Oilers hold the longest Playoff drought in NHL history
2. The Oilers have the most Number 1 over all Picks in the last 20+ years, probably longer if I felt like looking it up.(The NHL changed the layout of the draft because of the Oilers.)
3. The Oilers have the most Top 5 picks in the last 20 years probably ever.

As much fun as it is to take shots at oilers fans now, its really all in good fun, I would actually like to see your organization to get their **** together. The first BOA this year was probably the best game I have watched in decades, and I would absolutely love to have a playoff series against the Oilers sometime soon. Maybe it will happen this year, but I just don't see it.

This team doesn't just need to change GM's they need to change their entire organization/culture. The GM can only do so much, if your scouting/development is no good, you aren't going anywhere in a salary cap era. You need to be able to supplement your big contracts with talented players on entry level deals. Its not just the 1st overall pick, when you have that pick you also get pick 31(32 now) which is the pick the Stanley cup winner would get. I am not super informed on your farm team, but I believe the cupboards are pretty bare, which is why every year you have had to rush players into the NHL roster before they are ready.

The Oilers have been terrible at drafting/developing/trading/signings/hiring's I am sure there is more, but they have the mentality of "We know a thing or two about winning" The Salary cap has changed everything and I am not sure K Lowe or anyone in the organization understands that. Unfortunately the Oilers are in such a hole it will take years to dig out if you want to do it right.

Just imagine what your team would look like if you hadn't won the draft lottery and got Connor McDavid. There would not even be any hope. At least he is a light at the end of the tunnel or at least you would think.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Your a wee upset you threw your jersey away last night....I get it, trust me...apologies on the corn, flush, floater game scenario reflecting on the Oilers franchise.....

No, I'd NEVER do that, it ticks me off quite frankly. It's not in my nature to quit on things because the going gets tough.

As for the rest, still wasn't funny, just childish.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Roderek

Sorry not sure where you got your numbers but they are clearly not right, as it is impossible for the flames to have a made a Stanley cup appearance and only win 1 playoff round.

Why use 1990, why not start comparing from this century isn't enough. We are almost 20 years in. I suspect you wanted to use the last year the Oilers won the cup to boost your rounds won stat.

At the end of the day the last 20 years the Flames have missed the playoffs a number of times as well, the difference is the games have been meaningful almost every year, until close to the end of the season. Personally if I was an Oilers fan this year and was offered free tickets (assuming I had seen Connor play live at some point already) I would pass on the tickets. It wouldn't be worth paying for parking/beers/popcorn etc. to watch a game like that.

Yes the Oilers were a dynasty in the 80's they are not anymore. If you want to talk about stats in this century

1. The Oilers hold the longest Playoff drought in NHL history
2. The Oilers have the most Number 1 over all Picks in the last 20+ years, probably longer if I felt like looking it up.(The NHL changed the layout of the draft because of the Oilers.)
3. The Oilers have the most Top 5 picks in the last 20 years probably ever.

As much fun as it is to take shots at oilers fans now, its really all in good fun, I would actually like to see your organization to get their **** together. The first BOA this year was probably the best game I have watched in decades, and I would absolutely love to have a playoff series against the Oilers sometime soon. Maybe it will happen this year, but I just don't see it.

This team doesn't just need to change GM's they need to change their entire organization/culture. The GM can only do so much, if your scouting/development is no good, you aren't going anywhere in a salary cap era. You need to be able to supplement your big contracts with talented players on entry level deals. Its not just the 1st overall pick, when you have that pick you also get pick 31(32 now) which is the pick the Stanley cup winner would get. I am not super informed on your farm team, but I believe the cupboards are pretty bare, which is why every year you have had to rush players into the NHL roster before they are ready.

The Oilers have been terrible at drafting/developing/trading/signings/hiring's I am sure there is more, but they have the mentality of "We know a thing or two about winning" The Salary cap has changed everything and I am not sure K Lowe or anyone in the organization understands that. Unfortunately the Oilers are in such a hole it will take years to dig out if you want to do it right.

Just imagine what your team would look like if you hadn't won the draft lottery and got Connor McDavid. There would not even be any hope. At least he is a light at the end of the tunnel or at least you would think.

Absolutely....

Brendans Dad is in denial of most recent stats...Like 2000 and forward

[Talking moose]

Current oilers organization can’t be all bad. They made McDavid into a 100 point a season man.

[Talking moose]

(With a better team he might be a 120 a season man....)

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

I actually thought some of your comments were intelligent till this comment...YOU blew it....25 games in one season does not even compare to the Oilers seasons the last 10 years....

Well that really ruined my day!

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Well that really ruined my day!

Your team ruins everyday...This season...LOL

However, I feel your pain as a fan....I was an oilers and Gretzky fan growing up in the 80's....I do hope the Oilers can actually turn around and make BOA great once again...Miss the old days

[bessiedog]

Hokay....... I’ll tell you boys who ta blame:

1. MacT..... I honestly believe that he’s the prime mover and shaker with a to be of this stuff. I think we need to muzzle him severely. I’m sure of it. Hes responsible for years of farm team neglect and not understanding the concept of draft and develop. I do find it ironic that he wouldn’t clean up Hall before they shipped him out (MacT was a substance abuse reclamation project of Sather’s).

1. I’m very sorry.... but the town itself. I was born and raised there....... but boys.... all Edmonton is (as it presents to outsiders and NHL players) is a big industrial park with a cute mall, gross river and an airport.... and nhl players find itfriggin cold.

No one should dis Katz. Our NHL team would have jumped to Seattle looooong ago if it wasn’t for him.
He’s built the u of A pharmacy faculty
He’s building the IcE district in an attempt to make Edmonton appealing.

But ANY GM really really really has a tough time selling this team to free agents with the town the way it is.

..... add to that a fan base and media that are rabid!



She’s a tough assignment kids.

[Twisted Canuck]

So, what your saying Bessie, is that Edmonton sucks....? Gee, that's a little harsh, but at the same time has the ring of truth....



Just razzing you bud.

[spoiledsaskhunter]

if any team in the league had been given the opportunities to improve the way the oilers have during the last few years, they'd probably have won the cup already.

...but instead, they have squandered almost every opportunity through their old boys club, bad trades, bad contracts, and even bad firings (ie McLellan)…..then when people come here and try to discuss it all and offer some opinions on solutions, some knothead whos' initials are BD comes up with arguments that are as bizarre as the disfunctional organization that is the oilers.

it's ok though, all is well in oilerland…...everything is rosy, and please try to forgive all who have offered opinions.


does anyone except me think that it's too bad some people get the blinders on and cannot see the forest for the trees.