RCMP Contiune To Lie

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by sullijr

As a long time Range Officer I have seen many police officers on the range and a lot are only familiar with the gun they are trained on and have not fired any others .The officer in the video probably didn't know haw to make it safe.

The RCMP control the gun registry and what firearms you can and can't own, yet they don't even have the ability to figure out how to operate a new piece of equipment given to them?

C'mon your joking with us. Well, I hope your joking with us.

[sureshot]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

This is interesting...please note that this is just the tally for RCMP deaths on the job.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2011/...e-of-duty.html

total of 222 officers from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) and its forerunner force, the North West Mounted Police (NWMP), have died in the line of duty since the 1870s, including the high-profile shootings of four young officers in near the town of Mayerthorpe, Alta., in March 2005, and the deaths of two Mounties shot near Mildred, Sask., in July 2006.

Const. Douglas Scott was shot and killed in the Baffin Island hamlet of Kimmirut on Nov. 5, 2007. The 20-year-old from Brockville, Ont., was responding to a traffic complaint. The shooting came just a month after another RCMP officer was killed in Hay River, N.W.T. Const. Christopher Worden, 32, was shot on Oct. 6, 2007, after responding to a house call for assistance.

In the early years, the causes of police deaths reflected the harsh reality of bringing order to Canada's sparsely populated and geographically challenging West and North. Nine officers were thrown from their horses, drowned in raging spring rivers or froze to death before the dawn of the 20th century.

Many more died in combat with Métis who sought to establish an independent homeland in the Battle of Duck Lake, among other skirmishes of the Northwest Rebellion.

About 80 RCMP officers died in boating accidents, car crashes, as a pedestrian struck by a vehicle, or plane crashes, according to the RCMP's Honour Roll, which lists the names of Mounties who died while performing police duties.

But 75 officers of the RCMP and NWMP have been killed in the line of duty for merely being a police officer. Here are some of the most chilling cases, as detailed in the Canadian Police and Peace Officers Memorial database of Canadian law enforcers who died in the line of duty.

August 1920: Const. Ernest Usher, 26, is shot and killed while trying to arrest train robbers at Bellewae, Alta.

January 1922: Const. William Doak, 39, stationed at Tree River, N.W.T., is shot to death in his sleep by an escaped prisoner.

October 1935: Const. John Shaw, 39, of the RCMP, and Const. William Wainwright, a municipal police officer from Benito, Man., are shot while transporting three young men suspected of armed robbery in Saskatchewan. The murderers — three farmers' sons aged 18 to 21 wearing three-piece suits — dump the officers' bodies in a muddy slough, where a farmer finds them three days later. The men later try to enter Banff National Park in Alberta, but run into an RCMP spot check. They open fire, killing two RCMP officers: Const. George Harrison, 29, and Sgt. Thomas Wallace, 39. The murderers are themselves eventually shot to death.

June 1962: Const. Elwood Keck, 25; Const. Gordon Pedersen, 25; and Const. Donald Weisgerber, 23, are shot to death while attempting to apprehend gunman George Booth, who is firing his army surplus rifle from the Peterson Creek Bridge in Kamloops, B.C.

March 1974: Const. Roger Pierlet, 23, is working alone on an overnight patrol in Cloverdale, B.C., when he stops a car while looking for vandals. It turns out to contain two men, one of them a Langley man whose brother has died in a high-speed police chase just four days before. The man, who had been looking for a police officer in order to exact revenge, shoots Pierlet in the heart.

April 1978: Const. Thomas Brian King, 40, stops a car for a routine check in the north end of Saskatoon. The two men in the car attack him, forcing him into their vehicle, driving to the South Saskatchewan River and shooting him before throwing his body in the water. They allegedly stopped on the way to the river to brag to friends about what they were about to do, the memorial website says.

January 1985: Const. Allen Giesbrecht, 31, is investigating a report that a man in Vegreville, Alta, is brandishing a shotgun. He and four other officers arrive at the house, which is adorned with signs scrawled with anti-RCMP slogans. Giesbrecht dies after being shot in the stomach while searching the house, despite wearing a protective vest.

January 1987: Special Const. Gordon Kowalczyk, 35, answers a call from a gas station near the Calgary Airport, saying a customer had left without paying for gas. He stopped a suspect, who shot him at point-blank range from his truck before stepping out of the vehicle and firing five more shots at the dying policeman.

March 2001: RCMP Const. Jurgen Seewald, 47, was shot and killed while responding to a domestic dispute in Cape Dorset, Nunavut. The 26-year veteran of the force had only moved to the northern community a few months earlier. The man who was convicted of first-degree murder in the case has appealed, with his lawyer arguing he was acting in self-defence after being pepper-sprayed.

December 2001: Const. Dennis Strongquill, 52, and his partner stop a truck near Russell, Man., intending to cite the driver for failing to dim his high beams. A passenger gets out of the truck and starts shooting. The two officers jump back in their RCMP SUV and start driving toward a nearby RCMP detachment. In the parking lot, the pursuing truck smashes the police SUV into a fence, trapping Strongquill inside. Again, a passenger gets out and fires a shotgun at Strongquill, fatally wounding him before fleeing the scene.

Feb. 28, 2004: RCMP Cpl. Jim Galloway, 53, a dog handler based in Edmonton, was shot and killed during a six-hour standoff in Spruce Grove, a bedroom community just outside the Alberta capital. A 31-year veteran of the force, Galloway was shot dead at the scene as a gunman tried to leave a house while exchanging gunfire with police. The 39-year-old suspect was also hit and died later in hospital.

March 2005: Four RCMP officers are ambushed and shot to death on a farm near Mayerthorpe, Alta. They were investigating reports of stolen auto parts as well as a small marijuana grow operation. The gunman is also found dead inside a Quonset hut — a large metal storage shed.

July 2006: Two RCMP officers, Const. Robin Cameron, 29, and Const. Marc Bourdages, 26, are shot July 7 after a car pursuit of a domestic violence suspect ended near Mildred, Sask. The officers would die nine days later. After an extensive hunt for Curtis Dagenais, the prime suspect in the shootings, he turns himself in on July 18.

October 2007: Const. Christopher Worden was shot in Hay River, N.W.T., a small town about 500 kilometres south of Yellowknife. The 30-year-old was responding to a call from a house for assistance at 5 a.m. on Oct. 6 when he lost radio contact with fellow officers. Two backup officers were sent to the scene and found Worden in a wooded area suffering from gunshot wounds. He died in hospital. Police launched a Canada-wide search for Emrah Bulatci, who surrendered following a standoff in Edmonton five days later. He has been charged with first-degree murder.

November 2007: Const. Douglas Scott, 20, was shot and killed on Nov. 5 in the Baffin Island hamlet of Kimmirut, about 120 kilometres south of Iqaluit. Scott, from Brockville, Ont., was responding to a complaint about an impaired driver late in the evening.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2011/...#ixzz1B4Hb1S69

http://www.odmp.org/canada/browse.php?abbr=BC

You missed one of the highest profile police shootings from 1932 when constable Millen was shot and kiled by Albert Johnson and corpral King was also shot but survived. I do agree the police put their lives on the line everyday, but in my mind the video speaks for itself.

Andy

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by LongBomber

Do you own a firearm and live in the city? You are on alberta outdoorsman, so I suspect you are likely a hunter, and own a firearm. Do you go hunting and then drive home into a city? Your firearm in a city gives you nightmares?

I am trying to say that I don't see this as an incident of a law abiding gun owner attacked by a cop while on the way hunting or hitting the range. I see this totally separate and distinct as in a cop hearing someone driving that vehicle was involved in firing a gun in public...maybe in the city limits? I don't recall if the golf course fell inside or outside city limits. Anyways...people seem to be linking this to legal use of guns and a random attack. I just don't see it that way.... But the outcome was not good never the less.

When referring to the cops nightmare of guns in the city...it refers to illegal use or reported illegal use.

[KegRiver]

I have watched this thread wondering what is going on.

I'm not comfortable with what I'm hearing from either side.
From the video it is clear to me that this officer stepped over the line, but why?
Up to that moment I see no indication of an officer out of control.

Something is missing here.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I have watched this thread wondering what is going on.

I'm not comfortable with what I'm hearing from either side.
From the video it is clear to me that this officer stepped over the line, but why?
Up to that moment I see no indication of an officer out of control.

Something is missing here.

Yeah a little self control

[KegRiver]

And you never loose control? Lucky you.

Look, I'm not saying that what this officer did was right, clearly it wasn't.

But I wonder if we would be so harsh if we knew the whole story.

Something triggered that reaction. It might be that it was something innocent or unintentional, it could also have been an insult or threat.
Point is, we don't know. If we did, we might well be less harsh in our judgment.

You can call for the officers head, that's your choice. I shall wait to see what further information time provides before I make any judgments.

To say the sentence was inappropriate after the judge has made his ruling is one thing. To say that before the courts have had their say is quiet another.

[moosemad]

Imagine if that was your son on the ground in that video. Something else to think about is the amount of videos that are surfacing lately, how many instances occur where there are no cameras.

[209x50]

Thank god there is the video, or the cop would have that poor beggar in jail right now. You don't have to guess what would have happened if there were no witnesses. The fellow with the bleeding face would be in jail right now where the cop belongs rather than out on paid holiday.
This is assault and battery, plain and simple and the fact the cop is hiding behind his badge doesn't change anything.

[JohninAB]

209x50 Thank god there is the video, or the cop would have that poor beggar in jail right now. You don't have to guess what would have happened if there were no witnesses. The fellow with the bleeding face would be in jail right now where the cop belongs rather than out on paid holiday.
This is assault and battery, plain and simple and the fact the cop is hiding behind his badge doesn't change anything.

x2

[Treadmill]

While not taking any sides (law enforcement officers/vs public @ large) in this controversey, IMHO, will we ever really know the truth? Remember the police officers testimony in the polish immigrants case ... do law enforcement officers ALWAYS tell the truth? NOT! Having said that, I'm not at all confidant that we will ever be sure with any degree of certainty that the actual facts will ever be known. A typical case of he said-she said. The facts evident in the video speak for themselves.

[elkhunter11]

And you never loose control? Lucky you.

Look, I'm not saying that what this officer did was right, clearly it wasn't.

But I wonder if we would be so harsh if we knew the whole story.

Something triggered that reaction. It might be that it was something innocent or unintentional, it could also have been an insult or threat.
Point is, we don't know. If we did, we might well be less harsh in our judgment.

Insulting the officer,or saying something inappropriate,still wouldn't justify the officer assaulting the man as he was helpless on all fours.If you lose control,and assault someone,you can be held accountable,and the same applies to the officer.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Insulting the officer,or saying something inappropriate,still wouldn't justify the officer assaulting the man as he was helpless on all fours.If you lose control,and assault someone,you can be held accountable,and the same applies to the officer.

X2

That would be no excuse...

[cover]

Originally Posted by sullijr

As a long time Range Officer I have seen many police officers on the range and a lot are only familiar with the gun they are trained on and have not fired any others .The officer in the video probably didn't know haw to make it safe.

Now that is not really encouraging at all now is it ......... he kinda handles that shotgun like it has pooh on it or something... no gloves either.... I can hear it now.... " forensics were unable to get the suspects prints off the weapon as the evidence was compromized at the scene..... " or something to that effect...... should'nt any LEO be familiar with just about any firearm ?? Is a pump action shotgun just about the most common firearm you might encounter ??

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by moosemad

Imagine if that was your son on the ground in that video. Something else to think about is the amount of videos that are surfacing lately, how many instances occur where there are no cameras.

Imagine it was Paul Bernardo down there on the ground.

There are two ways to look at any situation.

Yes How many instances like this occur where there are no cameras present?

Good question. Do you know the answers, is it none, maybe it's one.
Maybe it's 100,000.

I would like to know.

[elkhunter11]

Imagine it was Paul Bernardo down there on the ground.

As much as the officer might want to kick him,it still wouldn't give the officer the legal right to kick him,if he was complying with the officers demands.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

X2

That would be no excuse...

X3 It would be no excuse.

It would however make a difference in what I think about this particular officers character. And it would make a difference in what punishment I think would be appropriate.

Lets just suppose that the individual said something like, "Hey pig, I've got a bomb on my belt and a trigger in my hand, what you gonna do about it."
Sorta changes the picture doesn't it.

Now if the individual said "give me a moment Sir, I have a bad back and getting down on the ground is hard for me" Quiet a different matter wouldn't you say.


I know a Lady who got charged for causing a six car pileup in the middle of the Port Mann Bridge in Vancouver many years ago. Her car stalled causing a chain reaction pileup.
The police charged her with operating a unsafe vehicle and improperly maintaining her vehicle. She tried to explain that she had tried to keep in in good running order, but the investigating officer would not listen to her.
He had all the proof he needed. Her car had in fact stalled. She admitted as much. He could see the carnage that had caused. That was clear enough for him.
Well it turns out she was on her way home from a repair shop where she had taken the car to repair, a stalling problem.

What we see is not always the whole story.

[Donkey Oatey]

Since all 911 calls are recorded I think we need to hear the original complaint call. Personally I think its a whole lot of azz covering right now. Buddy crossed a line. Doesn't matter what the guy said he was complying with orders. The use of force model is very very clear on what amount of force is used. This was excessive.

[elkhunter11]

I know a Lady who got charged for causing a six car pileup in the middle of the Port Mann Bridge in Vancouver many years ago. Her car stalled causing a chain reaction pileup.
The police charged her with operating a unsafe vehicle and improperly maintaining her vehicle. She tried to explain that she had tried to keep in in good running order, but the investigating officer would not listen to her.
He had all the proof he needed. Her car had in fact stalled. She admitted as much. He could see that carnage that had caused. That was clear enough for him.
Well it turns out she was on her way home from a repair shop where she had taken the car to repair a stalling problem.

What we see is not always the whole story.

Did she think of showing the officer the bill from the repair shop that she just came from?That fact alone would have changed things entirely,because the officer would have known that he had no case.He would have taken back the ticket rather than look stupid in court.Nobody was assaulted,and no harm would have been done.

In this case,the officer can't take back the kick,he assaulted the man,so he must be held accountable.

[leeaspell]

Why is it if a cop screws up he gets a paid suspension. If i kicked a guy in the face while i was at work im pretty sure I would not get paid to sit at home after it? And about the cop not knowing how to make a shotgun safe, everyone who done the firearms course had to demonstrate it, its not some secret knowledge only a few of use a privilaged to know.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Why is it if a cop screws up he gets a paid suspension. If i kicked a guy in the face while i was at work im pretty sure I would not get paid to sit at home after it? And about the cop not knowing how to make a shotgun safe, everyone who done the firearms course had to demonstrate it, its not some secret knowledge only a few of use a privilaged to know.

I wonder about that too.
I suppose that because or the nature of the job, false accusations would be a major problem. Perhaps that is a logical explanation for the paid leave part.

But the lack of understanding when it comes to firearms is troubling.
It could well explain the fear of fire arms some police officers seem to have.

My thought is how is one to do a job properly when they have so little understanding of one of the primary tools of the trade.

I can appreciate that one can not know how to operate every sort of firearm out there. But a good understanding of the more common designs would seem to me to be a minimal requirement.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Why is it if a cop screws up he gets a paid suspension. If i kicked a guy in the face while i was at work im pretty sure I would not get paid to sit at home after it? And about the cop not knowing how to make a shotgun safe, everyone who done the firearms course had to demonstrate it, its not some secret knowledge only a few of use a privilaged to know.

It is called innocent until proven guilty. At the same time his credibility with the public is in doubt and they balance his rights with the continued protection of the public...

The difference we need to respect is that the guys at your office employment location sometimes don't take swings at you, spit in your face, have super strong bodies doped up on meth, crack...are holding on their persons...Aids infected needles, have guns, knives, rap sheets that include assault, murder, have associates that are moving closer...etc. To that regard...understanding their job IS different then yours, they have the right to explain why they did what they did, go through an inquiry process and then find out if they can never work again in this profession.

You on the other hand...if on the way to photo copy a report for your boss and kick someone in the head who dropped a pen...simple story...simple answer... IMHO.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by greylynx

The RCMP control the gun registry and what firearms you can and can't own, yet they don't even have the ability to figure out how to operate a new piece of equipment given to them?

C'mon your joking with us. Well, I hope your joking with us.

No, sullijr is DEAD SERIOUS!
I have also seen this , several times when he was there at our range in Ft. Mac, and several times when sulljr was not there.
The fact remains that unless an officer is a gun enthusiast, that officer likley doesn't know JACK about fire arms in general.

Most do not fire their weapons except when they have to qualify, and that is a recipe for disaster.
True story - RCMP member is lying down qualifying with a Winchester M70 308.
After the first shot he tries to pull the trigger again, then gets up and asks me " Is there something else I have to do to make this gun fire except pull the trigger? I think it's jammed!"
I was simply stunned that he figured a bolt qction rifle was a self loader!!
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Below is an interview with the victim of the assault.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna...ares-interview

http://www.chbcnews.ca/Victim+violen...898/story.html

[jacob1202]

sundance makes a valid point here... but the whole innocent until proven guilty thing is an illusion ... ill give you an example... remand centers... they house people pre-trial... isnt the trial the deciding factor in whether or not were guilty? i can see it for repeat offenders or violent offenders... but joe blow who is waiting to go to trial for a no insurance ticket is held for 3 months b4 his trial??? total waste of tax dollars and prison space... there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Below is an interview with the victim of the assault.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna...ares-interview

http://www.chbcnews.ca/Victim+violen...898/story.html

Man...you definitely have to feel for the guy...

After watching...if I was the judge...it would be hard not to fire the officer... Based upon Buddy's testimony. Wow...the officer has to have an ace up his sleeve...cause he is in one deep pit right now.

[elkhunter11]

Man...you definitely have to feel for the guy..

Do those interviews change your opinion at all?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jacob1202

sundance makes a valid point here... but the whole innocent until proven guilty thing is an illusion ... ill give you an example... remand centers... they house people pre-trial... isnt the trial the deciding factor in whether or not were guilty? i can see it for repeat offenders or violent offenders... but joe blow who is waiting to go to trial for a no insurance ticket is held for 3 months b4 his trial??? total waste of tax dollars and prison space... there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty

I would not call it an illusion...I would agree with you so far as to say it is imperfect. But that is the nature of the beast...if we could read minds like in the movies...we could have the perfect system... Since we can't...the system does it's best with both sides trying their best to prove guilt or innocence.

As for remand centers...I am not well versed to give anything but my casual observations as a law abiding citizen who reads papers and watches the news.

What I see is that depending upon the crime committed...you may be held in custody if the nature of the crime is severe or if there is a risk you may leave. If you are a vagrant...there is no proof you are tied to the community and may flee. If you are a Calgarian...working here...rent or own a house...have a family...you are for sure more likely to either get bail or house arrest or some such.

With everyone trying their best to prove guilt or innocence...it takes time to do it right. The system allows for that time on both sides. That being said...if it takes too long...the accused usually gets let go and the charges dropped.

Like with any governmental system...some times things and unfortunately people fall through the cracks. Checks have been put in place but for sure you either need to be smart enough to know how to access and use them or someone has to be helping you. It is a shame...but really...can we expect anything to be perfect? I don't believe so. I think we need to do our best to help when we can and support good initiatives and not bog down the court in wasted time fighting parking or speeding tickets that we know we should accept responsibility for etc.

I would also say...I am way happier with our "flawed" system then going through the courts in Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia etc. Way more transparency here IMHO.

[BuckMan101]

ever thought... maybe the guy said kick me?

[elkhunter11]

ever thought... maybe the guy said kick me?

If he said kick me,would that make it legal to kick him?If he said shoot me,would that make it legal to shoot him?

[Cal]

I personaly am not at all surprised by this. I've seen some pretty messed up things go down in Slave Lake after midnight and picked up plenty of hitch hikers that were in pretty rough shape after spending the night in the drunk tank. I realise that in these cases I dont know the entire story but I think after resorting to brutal physical violence with no questions asked and no repercussions, on a long enough time line incidents like what happened in that video are bound to start happening. And I can deffinatly say that this is not an isolated incident, that cop just happend to get caught on camera doing it to a white guy with a job.