Open minded discussion: paid access the pros and cons

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Salavee

For sure, lets not kid ourselves . It's been going on for years in one form or another and getting more prevalent and obvious every year.
The good old days are now !

The good old days are not now, they have long passed. Now it's get what you can while you can, because hunting as we know it is going to change. The hunting of my younger days was something, now it's all competition, get what you can.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The good old days are not now, they have long passed. Now it's get what you can while you can, because hunting as we know it is going to change. The hunting of my younger days was something, now it's all competition, get what you can.

Agreed, almost glad I'm winding down rather than just starting out.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The good old days are not now, they have long passed. Now it's get what you can while you can, because hunting as we know it is going to change. The hunting of my younger days was something, now it's all competition, get what you can.

Maybe it's all perspective, a lot of good areas to get out too, a set of young legs helps too, the rest can stay at camp and clean thier dentures!

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Maybe it's all perspective, a lot of good areas to get out too, a set of young legs helps too, the rest can stay at camp and clean thier dentures!

Pretty much. I haven’t really noticed much of a difference except many of the hunters attitudes and a lot of the bush more accessible.

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The good old days are not now, they have long passed. Now it's get what you can while you can, because hunting as we know it is going to change. The hunting of my younger days was something, now it's all competition, get what you can.

The generation before you said the same thing, as will future generations. Take a look around at increased opportunities

[Joe Black]

A question to the landowners who agree with paid access.

Would you also be ok with putting a 10’ fence around your entire property, buy animal stock(deer, elk), and maintain the herd and fence in exchange to provide paid access?

This would be the fair thing to do, as you are not using the hunting of a provincial resource To your benefit. Your land, your game, your rules. Till then, not sure how being paid to supply access to a provincial resource is legal(as it currentley is illegal now). Create a game farm. Done. Bonus. No trespasser problems to boot.

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The good old days are not now, they have long passed. Now it's get what you can while you can, because hunting as we know it is going to change. The hunting of my younger days was something, now it's all competition, get what you can.

My grandma remembers when people would get in the car and drive to see a deer in a field because it was such a rare sight. So things are looking good in perspective!

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

A question to the landowners who agree with paid access.

Would you also be ok with putting a 10’ fence around your entire property, buy animal stock(deer, elk), and maintain the herd and fence in exchange to provide paid access?

This would be the fair thing to do, as you are not using the hunting of a provincial resource To your benefit. Your land, your game, your rules. Till then, not sure how being paid to supply access to a provincial resource is legal(as it currentley is illegal now). Create a game farm. Done. Bonus. No trespasser problems to boot.

I’m not in favour of a 10’ high fence. Wildlife should be able to come and go as they please.

[cheemo]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

A question to the landowners who agree with paid access.

Would you also be ok with putting a 10’ fence around your entire property, buy animal stock(deer, elk), and maintain the herd and fence in exchange to provide paid access?

This would be the fair thing to do, as you are not using the hunting of a provincial resource To your benefit. Your land, your game, your rules. Till then, not sure how being paid to supply access to a provincial resource is legal(as it currentley is illegal now). Create a game farm. Done. Bonus. No trespasser problems to boot.

I'm not disagreeing with you as I agree with a lot of what you've said. Just a question to throw back at you. Should outfitters and guides be allowed to benefeit from the hunting of a provincial resource?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

A question to the landowners who agree with paid access.

Would you also be ok with putting a 10’ fence around your entire property, buy animal stock(deer, elk), and maintain the herd and fence in exchange to provide paid access?

This would be the fair thing to do, as you are not using the hunting of a provincial resource To your benefit. Your land, your game, your rules. Till then, not sure how being paid to supply access to a provincial resource is legal(as it currentley is illegal now). Create a game farm. Done. Bonus. No trespasser problems to boot.

Yah we need to have more CWD hotspots in Alberta.

LC

[Joe Black]

My personal opinion, no they shouldn’t(outfitters charging to hunt). My opinion is alot of the problems we see today is due to outfitting, but that’s a topic for another thread.

As for the comment about CWD, are you a landowner that can answer the question on starting a game farm? Let me refraise the question then. If the cwd claims around game farms can be avoided, would you willing to go that route as quickly as backing paid access?

[Norwest Alta]

Lots of responses and lots of things to ponder. I wonder if a guy were to put this topic on a farming/ranching forum how the comments and ideas might differ.

I also am left wondering how paid access and paid hunting are the same?

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Lots of responses and lots of things to ponder. I wonder if a guy were to put this topic on a farming/ranching forum how the comments and ideas might differ.

I also am left wondering how paid access and paid hunting are the same?

They aren't, despite what sns would have you believe.

[IL Bar]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

A question to the landowners who agree with paid access.

Would you also be ok with putting a 10’ fence around your entire property, buy animal stock(deer, elk), and maintain the herd and fence in exchange to provide paid access?

This would be the fair thing to do, as you are not using the hunting of a provincial resource To your benefit. Your land, your game, your rules. Till then, not sure how being paid to supply access to a provincial resource is legal(as it currentley is illegal now). Create a game farm. Done. Bonus. No trespasser problems to boot.

As a grain farmer our farm has left many acres of bush and sloughs untouched that makes beautiful wildlife habitat for “your” provincial resource. We pay taxes on this land and we are not using every acre to its potential. Due to our management practices we have some excellent hunting opportunities. Our doors and phones get bombarded by hunting requests. We used to let everyone that asked into our land. I have been swore and cussed at by guys that I’ve given permission to that were beaten to a certain animal by another hunter that also had permission. I have had many acres of crop damaged by guys that were given permission on the grounds that they would walk in only and instead they drive in. Then there’s the trespassers and poachers. Don't get me started on them as they are getting worse by the year.

I will say that I am not for paid hunting but something has to change. I deer hunt a little myself and I do need hunters to help keep wildlife populations in check but I’ve run out of patience trying to coordinate who is going where and when. I am sick of the drama that hunting permission has become. No one has any respect anymore. I’ve gotten to the point that I would need a secretary just to keep up with the requests. Waterfowl guys seem to be the biggest babies for hunting permission.

My question I’ve asked before and no one can answer is how do we find these respectful hunters that everyone on here claims they are? And if 10 guys ask for permission do I let them all in or just the first guy that asks? I’ve also read on here about guys that give gifts to landowners after they hunt. That’s a nice gesture but isn’t that a form of paid for access? I will say that I’ve hardly gotten a thank you let alone a gift after someone has hunted our place.

[Joe Black]

Did I once say it was "mine"(your) reource?

Im just posing a question to the topic on those who agree to paid hunting. That's all.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

As a grain farmer our farm has left many acres of bush and sloughs untouched that makes beautiful wildlife habitat for “your” provincial resource. We pay taxes on this land and we are not using every acre to its potential. Due to our management practices we have some excellent hunting opportunities. Our doors and phones get bombarded by hunting requests. We used to let everyone that asked into our land. I have been swore and cussed at by guys that I’ve given permission to that were beaten to a certain animal by another hunter that also had permission. I have had many acres of crop damaged by guys that were given permission on the grounds that they would walk in only and instead they drive in. Then there’s the trespassers and poachers. Don't get me started on them as they are getting worse by the year.

I will say that I am not for paid hunting but something has to change. I deer hunt a little myself and I do need hunters to help keep wildlife populations in check but I’ve run out of patience trying to coordinate who is going where and when. I am sick of the drama that hunting permission has become. No one has any respect anymore. I’ve gotten to the point that I would need a secretary just to keep up with the requests. Waterfowl guys seem to be the biggest babies for hunting permission.

My question I’ve asked before and no one can answer is how do we find these respectful hunters that everyone on here claims they are? And if 10 guys ask for permission do I let them all in or just the first guy that asks? I’ve also read on here about guys that give gifts to landowners after they hunt. That’s a nice gesture but isn’t that a form of paid for access? I will say that I’ve hardly gotten a thank you let alone a gift after someone has hunted our place.

What number of people you let hunt is your call period. I do not consider a gift payment, it's a show of appreciation that i do it for. If they decide not to let me hunt next year, that's fine, I'm glad for the years I got to use the land. That is why I give a little something to the people who grant me land permission, even for shed hunting, sledding, quading, target shooting.

[boah]

Most landowners are great. I have received permission from a landowner that was in the process of hanging "no hunting" signs. I have also received lifetime permission, just so I didn't have to ask again. I once received permission from an owner 2 minutes after he said he wasn't allowing hunters this year.
I also know plenty of owners who refuse to put signage up because they are hunters, and they don't expect to hunt anywhere else if they are posting their land.
Most of the land posted no hunting are simply owners that don't agree with the sport. Which is alright, but they should not be the ones complaining about damage from wildlife.
All signage does is keep the good guys out. A no hunting sign never stopped a poacher.
What is my point? Don't have one. Just thoughts going through my head as I read this thread.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by boah

Most landowners are great. I have received permission from a landowner that was in the process of hanging "no hunting" signs. I have also received lifetime permission, just so I didn't have to ask again. I once received permission from an owner 2 minutes after he said he wasn't allowing hunters this year.
I also know plenty of owners who refuse to put signage up because they are hunters, and they don't expect to hunt anywhere else if they are posting their land.
Most of the land posted no hunting are simply owners that don't agree with the sport. Which is alright, but they should not be the ones complaining about damage from wildlife.
All signage does is keep the good guys out. A no hunting sign never stopped a poacher.
What is my point? Don't have one. Just thoughts going through my head as I read this thread.

Where do you hunt? In the area I hunt I may not know all landowners but most for sure. Just thinking of the 20 or so that own land where I hunt most often, there are only 2 that do not allow hunting because they don't like hunting.

There are others that post land but are also hunters and are just fed up with the BS that has resulted with having their land open access to anyone beside friends and family.

[huntinstuff]

When we have 10x the game wardens

When they can enter onto private property and buildings on site without warrant i might support land fee hunting

There are a few landowners who already get gratuities from hunters and outfitters where I usually hunt. Worst secret in the area.

Most outfitters are just fine. Zero issues.

Handful that cause issues.

Youd have to own a good chunk of land to make it worthwhile. Like sections of land. In the right areas.

With more rules every year for crown land (atv restrictions, helmets, no go before noon, zero atvs, etc etc ) its a matter of time before crown land hunters are all in the same area tripping over each other. Not all crown land is good hunting land. Unless you’re happy shooting a deer every decade or two moose in a lifetime......

[RZR]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Then there’s the trespassers and poachers. Don't get me started on them as they are getting worse by the year.

How many landowners poach?

[Knotter]

Payment for access incentivizes and rewards the wrong things in hunting. it monetizes and reduces the relationship hunters have with the landowner to a matter of contract and bid. My hunt for game becomes a hunt for cash.

Picture it now. Auctions, bidding on inches of horn, high fences and eventually... lawsuits. With that comes a sense of entitlement and not a sense of revelry for the most important part of this equation - the animal. Commoditizing the land does the same to the game. Doing so cheapens the undertaking to something I don't recognize. If I must buy the opportunity in this manner... I would rather buy the meat from a grocery. Call me what you want, on the high horse, sanctimonious etc but I think there is a better way.

We, as a whole, need to get better at building a relationship with the landowner. Without monetizing that relationship... Eye to eye, belly to belly and kind hand to kind hand - nothing in the middle. You are going onto someones property and place of business. Most of these people earn a livelihood on that land an no amount of money buys respect to that order. The currency is something else. Trust.

[boah]

Originally Posted by bobalong

There are others that post land but are also hunters and are just fed up with the BS that has resulted with having their land open access to anyone beside friends and family.

Now the only people with access are family and friends..... and trespassers.

[IL Bar]

Originally Posted by RZR

How many landowners poach?

I don’t know. Please enlighten me.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by boah

Now the only people with access are family and friends..... and trespassers.

You live in the city don't you?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

As a grain farmer our farm has left many acres of bush and sloughs untouched that makes beautiful wildlife habitat for “your” provincial resource. We pay taxes on this land and we are not using every acre to its potential. Due to our management practices we have some excellent hunting opportunities. Our doors and phones get bombarded by hunting requests. We used to let everyone that asked into our land. I have been swore and cussed at by guys that I’ve given permission to that were beaten to a certain animal by another hunter that also had permission. I have had many acres of crop damaged by guys that were given permission on the grounds that they would walk in only and instead they drive in. Then there’s the trespassers and poachers. Don't get me started on them as they are getting worse by the year.

I will say that I am not for paid hunting but something has to change. I deer hunt a little myself and I do need hunters to help keep wildlife populations in check but I’ve run out of patience trying to coordinate who is going where and when. I am sick of the drama that hunting permission has become. No one has any respect anymore. I’ve gotten to the point that I would need a secretary just to keep up with the requests. Waterfowl guys seem to be the biggest babies for hunting permission.

My question I’ve asked before and no one can answer is how do we find these respectful hunters that everyone on here claims they are? And if 10 guys ask for permission do I let them all in or just the first guy that asks? I’ve also read on here about guys that give gifts to landowners after they hunt. That’s a nice gesture but isn’t that a form of paid for access? I will say that I’ve hardly gotten a thank you let alone a gift after someone has hunted our place.

It's like everything else in life, given what you have been exposed to you should have a list of people you allow on your property and that being said over time have a feel for the regulation of wildlife on your land too.
A call come in or one approaches you and you have your numbers of allowed hunters just say sorry got my quota.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by RZR

How many landowners poach?

Jeepers that's like asking how many girls kiss on the first date....some do and some don't but don't bottle them all up in the same category because of one or two who do

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by boah

Most landowners are great. I have received permission from a landowner that was in the process of hanging "no hunting" signs. I have also received lifetime permission, just so I didn't have to ask again. I once received permission from an owner 2 minutes after he said he wasn't allowing hunters this year.
I also know plenty of owners who refuse to put signage up because they are hunters, and they don't expect to hunt anywhere else if they are posting their land.
Most of the land posted no hunting are simply owners that don't agree with the sport. Which is alright, but they should not be the ones complaining about damage from wildlife.
All signage does is keep the good guys out. A no hunting sign never stopped a poacher.
What is my point? Don't have one. Just thoughts going through my head as I read this thread.

The majority of the landowners I know are hunters themselves and very few deny access weather it’s posted or not. Mine land is posted in hopes that people will ask. This seems to work for me. Much of the access I give or receive is done at the fall dinner and dance when many of the neighbors come together. Some is lifelong implied but I always ask every year and like to be asked yearly. Yes signage keeps only the good guys out but it is hard to differentiate the good guys from the bad until after the fact.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Jeepers that's like asking how many girls kiss on the first date....some do and some don't but don't bottle them all up in the same category because of one or two who do

You people all think landowners are Saints, they are no different than anybody else. Let's pay them to access land. My point is some of them aren't on the up and up, but let's reward all of them.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by RZR

You people all think landowners are Saints, they are no different than anybody else. Let's pay them to access land. My point is some of them aren't on the up and up, but let's reward all of them.

You seem to have quite the hate on for land owners...did you get caught trespassing?

[RZR]

Originally Posted by hal53

You seem to have quite the hate on for land owners...did you get caught trespassing?

No not at all, my point is every year I watch the neighbors doing it. "Awe John won't mind" it happens all the time, but yet people are complaining about how many people trespass and you all call that poaching and the average joe gets blamed for it. Just putting that out there!