Lease Land

[Dakota369]

Thx for the update

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by willy

mackenzie to have a grazing lease you have to own the cattle to stock the grazing land and it has to be done to the regulations.
.

I know of a lease holder who doesn't own cattle.

[Deerme]

Originally Posted by FiveO

Update.
The lease holder filed for an extension for an appeal and was given till the end of the month to appeal the decision.

Which lease are we talking about Five-O? I didn't have any of these issues when I visited 336 this past Fall. Of course it was south of the highway (and crawling with people as usual).

Keep up the good fight,

Mike

[willy]

Lazy if he has a grazing lease hes suppose to be the only one to run cattle on that land.

[albertadave]

Willy, no offense, but I believe you're wrong. I have a grazing lease and there was nothing in the government paperwork I filled out that said I had to own cattle to have a lease.

Keep up the fight FiveO. I have never pursued issues pertaining to access on lease land but will make an effort of it next year. I just found out my favorite one may be switching owners and the adjacent 2 sections of land are being sold. Gotta protect the access we currently have, all the previous sales in the areas i hunt have led to no hunting (only very wealthy people can afford them and the wildlife is hoarded as a result). Thanks for the timely updates on the process.

[Bull Shooter]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

Willy, no offense, but I believe you're wrong. I have a grazing lease and there was nothing in the government paperwork I filled out that said I had to own cattle to have a lease.

Delburne... on a grazing lease isn't livestock a prerequisite? I'm in the Southwest and in order to have a grazing lease you must own the livestock you are running on the lease (that info came from Public Lands). My neighbour got rid of his herd a few years ago, and (if I recall correctly) in order to keep his lease he either had to rebuild his herd, purchase yearlings (spring to fall) or dispose of his lease. I think he had something like 12 to 18 months to get back "on-side". I recognize that lease requirements are different zone to zone, but I am surprised there isn't a mandatory livestock requirement? Interesting. Regards, Mike

[grandslamer]

i know the leasee holder in question
i talked to him last monday he said the samething ive been saying he has allowed a select group of hunters to hunt exclusively on those leases to him that is reasonable and legally and morally he is right .. he pays the rent he let hunters hunt his obligation is done..
he DOSENT have to let everyone that asks hunt only has to allowREASONABLE access and again ill say the LEASE HOLDER IS WHO DETERMIMS WHAT IS REASONABLE..
all fiveo b@tchin has done is cost all alberta tax payers money ..cause now the lease holder has hired a lawer and when (notice i didnt say if) he wins
the lawer is gonna ask for costs and more then likely get them..
all becase someone acts like a spoiled brat everyone else suffers caused now there r atleast 15 other farmers that arent going to let anyone hunt on there land in the area and thats over 100 quarters that are lost to any hunters

these spoiled children need to take the hunter ed course over again and read the part about hunter and land holder relationship ..IF HE SAYS NO SAY THANKS ANYWAY POLITELY AND LEAVE most farmers respect that try again the next year ask again hopefully he remembers the politeness and lets you hunt and asking eairly in the year helps to
do not show up during the season and start demand access and ****ing everone off

[TreeGuy]

Very interesting thread, and FiveO, I support your efforts......thanks!

Would it be fair to say that whomever has the deed to the land can do what he/she wants with it (within the eyes of the law of course)? I am a big supporter of landowner's rights, and when the day comes that I ever own any land, I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me what I can do with it and who I can let on it.

With that being said, those who are leasing the lands are doing so from the people of Alberta. That is MY land, and that is YOUR land. Leasee's are paying a fee to access it in order to make a profit. I will not tell you what to do with your land, but please don't tell me that I cannot pursue a legal activity on OUR land. I'll play by the rules if you will. What do ya say?

Tree

[thumper]

Sorry Grandslammer,

"he DOSENT have to let everyone that asks hunt only has to allowREASONABLE access and again ill say the LEASE HOLDER IS WHO DETERMIMS WHAT IS REASONABLE.."


The leaseholder of a grazing lease is leasing the right to graze livestock only. If others wish to access that land, and are not interferring with with the grazing of livestock, then the leaseholder can not bar access. It is not the leaseholder who determines what's 'reasonable', it's the owner (the government/people of Alberta). Those conditions are clear to both parties.
They are conditions of his/her grazing lease - what he/she agreed to by contract with the 'owner' (the government/people of Alberta) when they signed the grazing lease.

Those are the rules. If the leaseholder does not play by those rules, there are penalties up to and including losing the grazing lease. If the other users don't play by the rules, they can be charged with trespassing.

And if it "****es off" leaseholders - tough. I'll take all steps necessary to access public land where I'm legally entitled to, and press for punitive sanctions against grazing leaseholders who attempt to illegally restrict access to their "select group of hunters".
Access to public wildlife, on public lands is not reserved for private friends.

And FYI, most of the leases I review on the government website ask for people to contact them a week, or less in advance. This is because they're not always exactly sure when they're going to have their livestock removed from the lease - it depends on the weather, the amount of grass (rain) that year and a variety other factors. Excepting some community pastures who seem to set a date for removing cattle well in advance, when I've attempted to line up lease property 'early in the year' for grazing leases, I've been asked to call back closer to November 1st.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by grandslamer

i know the leasee holder in question
i talked to him last monday he said the samething ive been saying he has allowed a select group of hunters to hunt exclusively on those leases to him that is reasonable and legally and morally he is right .. he pays the rent he let hunters hunt his obligation is done..
he DOSENT have to let everyone that asks hunt only has to allowREASONABLE access and again ill say the LEASE HOLDER IS WHO DETERMIMS WHAT IS REASONABLE..
all fiveo b@tchin has done is cost all alberta tax payers money ..cause now the lease holder has hired a lawer and when (notice i didnt say if) he wins
the lawer is gonna ask for costs and more then likely get them..
all becase someone acts like a spoiled brat everyone else suffers caused now there r atleast 15 other farmers that arent going to let anyone hunt on there land in the area and thats over 100 quarters that are lost to any hunters

these spoiled children need to take the hunter ed course over again and read the part about hunter and land holder relationship ..IF HE SAYS NO SAY THANKS ANYWAY POLITELY AND LEAVE most farmers respect that try again the next year ask again hopefully he remembers the politeness and lets you hunt and asking eairly in the year helps to
do not show up during the season and start demand access and ****ing everone off

This lease holder is a crook, and he's about to face the facts of that in court.

WHEN he loses his case, it will open up the lease for public access as it should be, his neighbors, those 15 other "farmers", will get to see how the law works, and their leases will also be open to the public, whether they like it or not.

There's only one person in this discussion that needs to brush up on the hunter ed regs and the laws of the province...

Give'em hell FiveO.

Waxy

[lazy ike]

Go get him five-0. Leaseholders don't get to run the Lease as a private hunting ground for their family and friends.

[AbAngler]

It's not his land, it's OUR land. He leases is FROM us. It's not up to him to decide who can and can't access it. He will end up losing his lease if he keeps this up, and so he should.

[FiveO]

Originally Posted by grandslamer

i know the leasee holder in question
i talked to him last monday he said the samething ive been saying he has allowed a select group of hunters to hunt exclusively on those leases to him that is reasonable and legally and morally he is right .. he pays the rent he let hunters hunt his obligation is done..
he DOSENT have to let everyone that asks hunt only has to allowREASONABLE access and again ill say the LEASE HOLDER IS WHO DETERMIMS WHAT IS REASONABLE..
all fiveo b@tchin has done is cost all alberta tax payers money ..cause now the lease holder has hired a lawer and when (notice i didnt say if) he wins
the lawer is gonna ask for costs and more then likely get them..
all becase someone acts like a spoiled brat everyone else suffers caused now there r atleast 15 other farmers that arent going to let anyone hunt on there land in the area and thats over 100 quarters that are lost to any hunters

these spoiled children need to take the hunter ed course over again and read the part about hunter and land holder relationship ..IF HE SAYS NO SAY THANKS ANYWAY POLITELY AND LEAVE most farmers respect that try again the next year ask again hopefully he remembers the politeness and lets you hunt and asking eairly in the year helps to
do not show up during the season and start demand access and ****ing everone off

Thanks for the name calling, shows what kind of character you have. I wonder if this select group would happen to be an outfitter?. I wish someone could substatiate that.

Originally Posted by FiveO

Thanks for the name calling, shows what kind of character you have. I wonder if this select group would happen to be an outfitter?. I wish someone could substatiate that.

And/Or includes Grandslamer

[willy]

I'm gonna have to dig up my grazing lease and read it thru again. Quite a bit of lease changing hands think people getting scared what might happen to it. You hear rumblings about putting it up for bids and or for sale. Do any of you think its the way to go put it up to highest bidder and let them manage the land totally or just let gov't manage it all.

.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by willy

I'm gonna have to dig up my grazing lease and read it thru again. Quite a bit of lease changing hands think people getting scared what might happen to it. You hear rumblings about putting it up for bids and or for sale. Do any of you think its the way to go put it up to highest bidder and let them manage the land totally or just let gov't manage it all.

Since you asked, personally I think the government should stop leasing out our land. Why should someone get exclusive access to it just because they have the money to pay? Make it all public accessable land for recreation.

Side benefit of getting rid of leases is that it stops the hunting for pay idea in it's tracks. Why would anyone pay for access to private land when there is a huge amount of easily accessable (ie. no coming cap in hand to sheepishly ask if you can get onto land we own) free land avialable?

[FiveO]

I think its a good system that is currently in place very economical for the farmer, helps with his lively hood and supports agriculture in Alberta. It also allows for recreational opportunities like hunting and fishing. It should be a win win if everyone follows the rules.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Since you asked, personally I think the government should stop leasing out our land. Why should someone get exclusive access to it just because they have the money to pay? Make it all public accessable land for recreation.

Under the existing rules nobody has exclusive access. The rules in place could be enforced better, or possibly changed, but scrapping the whole idea of leasing government land is not a reasonable or viable option.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by FiveO

I think its a good system that is currently in place very economical for the farmer, helps with his lively hood and supports agriculture in Alberta. It also allows for recreational opportunities like hunting and fishing. It should be a win win if everyone follows the rules.

Those are my thoughts too.

There's no reason that the recreation and agricultural sides can't coexist, in fact they should be able to complement one another.

I'm actually in favour of the lease system, the principle of it at least, unfortunately, that isn't always the reality of the situation. The lease system provides an opportunity for the businessman/rancher, while at the same time providing the tax payer with revenue from their land.

It's a win-win situation when the land is being used effectively.

Waxy

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Waxy

There's no reason that the recreation and agricultural sides can't coexist, in fact they should be able to complement one another.

Exactly, I totally agree, and I'm in the somewhat unique position of having a vested interest in both sides of the coin.

[bowchaser]

Originally Posted by grandslamer

i know the leasee holder in question
i talked to him last monday he said the samething ive been saying he has allowed a select group of hunters to hunt exclusively on those leases to him that is reasonable and legally and morally he is right .. he pays the rent he let hunters hunt his obligation is done..
he DOSENT have to let everyone that asks hunt only has to allowREASONABLE access and again ill say the LEASE HOLDER IS WHO DETERMIMS WHAT IS REASONABLE..
all fiveo b@tchin has done is cost all alberta tax payers money ..cause now the lease holder has hired a lawer and when (notice i didnt say if) he wins
the lawer is gonna ask for costs and more then likely get them..
all becase someone acts like a spoiled brat everyone else suffers caused now there r atleast 15 other farmers that arent going to let anyone hunt on there land in the area and thats over 100 quarters that are lost to any hunters

these spoiled children need to take the hunter ed course over again and read the part about hunter and land holder relationship ..IF HE SAYS NO SAY THANKS ANYWAY POLITELY AND LEAVE most farmers respect that try again the next year ask again hopefully he remembers the politeness and lets you hunt and asking eairly in the year helps to
do not show up during the season and start demand access and ****ing everone off

Grandslamer, I guess you are one of the guys who he currently lets out? If he only wants to let 5 guys out on the lease per day I believe he can do that, but he can't say it's only Jim, Joe, etc. for the entire season. Everyone has the same opportunity for access.

[nekred]

these spoiled children need to take the hunter ed course over again and read the part about hunter and land holder relationship

In a lease situation the ladowner is the general public the lease holder is a rentor with conditions. This leaseholder does not seem to be meeting the conditions!

PS I teach hunter ed and your agenda is not on the curriculum!...

ill say the LEASE HOLDER IS WHO DETERMIMS WHAT IS REASONABLE..

Unfortunately it is not what is in the law!....

[grandslamer]

it funny almost everyone assumed it an outfitter or me hes letting on and i have a personal intrest in this land i dont the gut told me no also but because i didnt blow a gasket he explained that he allows a bunch of disabled hunters and there attendant in there to hunt and he keeps the numbers down for the saftey of said hunters ...
as to name calling you need to look att your first post ..
with all the land around just move on crist if its that imortan t too u u can hunt on my lane i have four quarters by tomahawk along the ns river full of game

ps where was all the hunter support last year when the govermant allowed private companys to destroy 22 quarters in that area by harvesting gravel??

[lynx]

I have read many of the post on this long thread. I must be a lucky one here.

The farmer that owns the lease joining my land came and asked me when he was fencing it off where I would like a gate for easy access for me and my friends. He gave me great moose, elk and deer hunting and the funny thing is I never see other hunters there at anytime.

[FiveO]

Disabled hunters is what he told you ah? Thats three different stories the guy has shoveled, regardless he must follow the rules set out for the benefit of all stake holders and should be held accountable for not following them. If it were me who didnt follow the rules it would be a cut and dry trespassing charge and you or I would be made out to be a dirt bag hunter.

What member of the board did I name call?

Thanks for the offer on the land i might just take you up on the offer for Mulie next season.

The hunter support last year? Did you inform anyone on the board, contact your mla, fish and game or get a petition going?.

Originally Posted by grandslamer

it funny almost everyone assumed it an outfitter or me hes letting on and i have a personal intrest in this land i dont the gut told me no also but because i didnt blow a gasket he explained that he allows a bunch of disabled hunters and there attendant in there to hunt and he keeps the numbers down for the saftey of said hunters ...
as to name calling you need to look att your first post ..
with all the land around just move on crist if its that imortan t too u u can hunt on my lane i have four quarters by tomahawk along the ns river full of game

ps where was all the hunter support last year when the govermant allowed private companys to destroy 22 quarters in that area by harvesting gravel??

He has leased (rented from us)13 quarters of land and allows disabled hunters on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. How many disabled hunters have a cow elk draw (season ended Dec. 20)for that zone? I don't think there would be an overabundance of people on this land.

Be careful with your invite, your place might turn into a danger zone.

Did YOU make any attempt to inform your fellow hunters about the 22 quarters?

[grandslamer]

we tryed everthing we could to stop the gravel company petitions letter writing phone calls i even blocked the road with my truck .. what happened i got a ticket and towed and they still starteed getting the gravel..
and the disable hunters thing he didnt have to tell me i stopped and helped the one guy in a wheelchair load his cow elk

everone keep using the word "rent" it isnt rent is leasing for purpose..
there wouldnt be any discussing this topic if it was rent .
the first time i rented out my land for hay i didnt specify in the contract times and dates just the year and when it came time for hunting the guy i rented to told me not to hunt there ..u can imangine where i told him to go
20 min later the rcmp were there and i had to leave my own land.. the reason being when some one rent a property it is in thier control you basicially give up your rights of control
i know we leased 2 quarter about 3 years ago we paid to lease the land buy but it was alkso up to us to fence and cross fence and maitain everthand we allowed anyone who wanted to hunt in untill guys started cutting wire cause it was closer to the truck then trying to drag to the gate and fixing fence all the time gets costly
so we file the proper forms ande left 2 of our bulls on all year that way we could control and know who was on the land

[7 Ultra]

Guys, don`t get me wrong i too am for hunting on lease land,however as a third generation rancher,and lease holder,i can sympathize with any rancher or farmer that denies a hunter access!Over the year we have lost 1/2 doz. horses (2 at one time). and a number of cows to those hunters that seem to know the difference between farm animals and wild.Gates left open,fences cut,trees cut down to get around, andgrass drove on, in the years that grass is hard to find.For everyone of you that are good about askin there are 10 that don`t and thnk they can drive anywhere they feel.The problem is that there is too many that think they have the god given right to hunt on anyones land and just don`t think. So sayin no might not bring the kids horse back but it sure makes you feel safer.And you sure hope you or the nieghbour don`t go shoot the next world record,because the next year you`ll have to have lights at every crossroads.Gaining a farmers trust is sometimes hard after all the other stuff!!!!!!