Our wildlife is doomed

[expmler]

Originally Posted by dbllung

I am currently sitting on a cut line 1/2 mile off the road with a propane heater , electric heated sweater ,pop up blind and full raven wear in -38 degrees windchill trying to find a mature buck on the last day of season. Am I too "techy" ....Out here it seems like the deer still have the advantage. Low deer numbers are from brutal winters..... Not heated sweaters and trail cameras!! (Looks like another brutal winter is gonna take its toll )

According to some here you are everything that is wrong with todays hunter. You obviously watch way to much Wild TV, if you don't get your deer you haven't learned how to hunt and are relying on technology to compensate for your inadequacy as a hunter.

If you do get your deer, you and your technology are responsible for the annihilation of wild game.

Don't even get them started on your ethics. lol

Enjoy your hunt and good luck.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I didn't post any actual population numbers, because there are so many different numbers, for so many different areas, for several species, for several years. So rather than post meaningless generalized numbers, for over 100 years, I chose not post actual numbers. But if you really want some actual numbers ,look below;

http://www.ab-conservation.com/go/de...veys/overview/

As an example, take a look at the pronghorn numbers from 2009 through 2012, and you will see an obvious decline in numbers.

You mean like this?

"Pronghorns have moved North over 30 or 40 years, but the numbers have dropped dramatically since 5 years ago. Mule deer numbers have been hit hard over the past five years. Areas that had very dense moose populations 10 years ago, have very sparse moose populations now. While the elk populations have increased in some areas, they have declined in other areas."

[The Elkster]

I would be fine with limits/handicapping on certain technology in exchange for longer seasons and more tags. I'm not anti-anything per say but at some point its either limit the technology or limit the opportunity. I'm only so sympathetic to those who get out for one week a season and expect an 80% success rate. Of course in a consumer driven society it's almost certainly going to go the other way.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by expmler

According to some here you are everything that is wrong with todays hunter. You obviously watch way to much Wild TV, if you don't get your deer you haven't learned how to hunt and are relying on technology to compensate for your inadequacy as a hunter.

If you do get your deer, you and your technology are responsible for the annihilation of wild game.

Don't even get them started on your ethics. lol

Enjoy your hunt and good luck.

Heaters and blinds have been around for ever, hardly what some of the members here are talking about.
Cat

[fish gunner]

I've Just spent ten days in five different central wmu's. Mule deer abound as always. 6x walking around in down town sundre. white tails ime are doing fine in thise zones . Still in the usual no hunting areas (they sure read good) so in an area roughly caroline to water valley , from hwy 22 west to the end of the tarmac (the most pressure) the deer and elk are as they have neen since roughly 04. Walking may just put one a little more in contact with the critters . Lots of healthy harvistable bucks 3x or smaller a few cagey crankers just like normal . The only critter absent in numbers were moose which I dont normally see till a week or two after nov 30. No extra predators, no more or less truck stands in fact one area in 314 had more white tail than the last 3 seasons. I can only speak for the wmu's I spend my time in but its just as it ever was . B,o,g hunting shows game a plenty.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Heaters and blinds have been around for ever, hardly what some of the members here are talking about.
Cat

It was all new technology at on time.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by expmler

It was all new technology at on time.

True dat!
This is always an issue when people want to change stuff like primitive hunting .
An original cap lock rifle is not legal in a primitive season in Virginia , but a replica flintlock is.
In Alberta an original 577 Snider is not considered anything but a modern rifle but a Savage bolt action shotgun with a 3-9x scope is okay in the Strathcoba season even though it is far more accurate for longer distances than the Snidrr which is no better than many muzzle loaders !
Cat

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by dbllung

I am currently sitting on a cut line 1/2 mile off the road with a propane heater , electric heated sweater ,pop up blind and full raven wear in -38 degrees windchill trying to find a mature buck on the last day of season. Am I too "techy" ....Out here it seems like the deer still have the advantage. Low deer numbers are from brutal winters..... Not heated sweaters and trail cameras!! (Looks like another brutal winter is gonna take its toll )

Did you get your buck?

[remmy300]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

I've Just spent ten days in five different central wmu's. Mule deer abound as always. 6x walking around in down town sundre. white tails ime are doing fine in thise zones . Still in the usual no hunting areas (they sure read good) so in an area roughly caroline to water valley , from hwy 22 west to the end of the tarmac (the most pressure) the deer and elk are as they have neen since roughly 04. Walking may just put one a little more in contact with the critters . Lots of healthy harvistable bucks 3x or smaller a few cagey crankers just like normal . The only critter absent in numbers were moose which I dont normally see till a week or two after nov 30. No extra predators, no more or less truck stands in fact one area in 314 had more white tail than the last 3 seasons. I can only speak for the wmu's I spend my time in but its just as it ever was . B,o,g hunting shows game a plenty.

Let me ask you this. What is your idea of abound? How long have you been hunting the Sundre area? I was born and raised there and I can tell you mule deer don't abound there anymore. I just spent a week between 216 and 2 other wmu's. The mule deer population in comparison to 5 years ago is scary. Literally within a hour drive we would see close to 100 md and 100 wt on a bad day. Our farm used to have 20-30 wt every night and probably that many md. The neighbors were all full of deer. I took a quick drive with dad this AM before heading north. We seen 1 wt buck no does and 30 elk that happened to be behind the house. Dad had 45 whitetails last year feeding from the end of hunting season on through. He found 14 carcasses on his 1/4. How many more died on the neighbors

Coming down the hill into town from the east and north used to have dozens of mule deer in the fields. Tell me how many you see know.

How many tracks in the snow do you see between Sundre and Caroline. Hardly any. Fields that used to be full of whitetails had no tracks. Full of alfalfa.

His words were there wont be a deer left if we have another winter like last year.

The only abundance of deer out there are in your dreams or on the shelves gracing the pages of big buck magazine or field and stream. Seeing 6 deer in town doesn't mean crap.

I actually can't even believe I responded to this. Yeah. The numbers are the same as 04. Oh my I must need to visit my local optometrist.

[dbllung]

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

Did you get your buck?

Negative.

In my years of hunting mature whitetails this was by far the most challenging.

Saw a few 130-150 class deer but nothing to even take the chill off!

I hunted no less than 14 full days in November alone(sunup to sundown)
I have never seen a year where 4,5,6 + year old deer were fewer than this year!
3 terrible winters consecutively in the Peace River area have obliterated the top end deer .. There are always a few that make it but it is really slim pickens for aged deer around here ! It will take a few years to recover for sure (as long as old man winter feels a little compassionate )

[Buckhunter123]

I hunt 214 and man I see at least 200 + mule deer a day but only two 150 class wt bucks live around that area I know of but yet I see two or three 190+ mule deer plus the other 14 140 + mule deer. It makes me sick not to see whitetail. But soon as I get Nw of sundre I've seen a ton of whitetail. Seen a few nice bucks but passed them up. It all depends were u look because I haven't seen whitetail except odd one in 338 316 418 417 216 210. But then I head to sundre and that's were we started seeing them. Man I wish I could have taken some of the nice bucks I seen but was hoping for another big one. Ended up with a little 4x4 wt hammered him with my 30-30 using the barnes. Had him run out of a draw hot on a doe as soon as I started my walk just walked in about five feet and he ran out, connected on him at 100 yards on a run. Just pure luck I guess.

[Rabbit Snarer]

Originally Posted by Buckhunter123

I hunt 214 and man I see at least 200 + mule deer a day but only two 150 class wt bucks live around that area I know of but yet I see two or three 190+ mule deer plus the other 14 140 + mule deer. It makes me sick not to see whitetail. But soon as I get Nw of sundre I've seen a ton of whitetail. Seen a few nice bucks but passed them up. It all depends were u look because I haven't seen whitetail except odd one in 338 316 418 417 216 210. But then I head to sundre and that's were we started seeing them. Man I wish I could have taken some of the nice bucks I seen but was hoping for another big one. Ended up with a little 4x4 wt hammered him with my 30-30 using the barnes. Had him run out of a draw hot on a doe as soon as I started my walk just walked in about five feet and he ran out, connected on him at 100 yards on a run. Just pure luck I guess.

How many bridges have you got for sale?????????

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

You mean like this?

"Pronghorns have moved North over 30 or 40 years, but the numbers have dropped dramatically since 5 years ago. Mule deer numbers have been hit hard over the past five years. Areas that had very dense moose populations 10 years ago, have very sparse moose populations now. While the elk populations have increased in some areas, they have declined in other areas."

Could you kindly point out the population numbers in my point.

[Prairiewolf]

Ever hear the joke about how "fishing lures catch fishermen, not fish?" The market for new technology and apparell is increasing, but I don't know if all of that stuff translates into more harvested animals. Look at golf - twenty five years ago clubmakers weren't bringing out multiple sets of clubs each year, it was every 3-5 years. Then the Big Bertha came out and bam, every manufacturer started churning out R&D driven product, and the demand warranted it. That said, the handicap of the average player likely didn't change - in fact I'd argue it went up as more people took up the game but were less committed to it.

The guy buying a Blaser or Sako with Swarovski or Nightforce scope isn't the new hunter, its the guy who's been in the game awhile and was going to harvest a few animals anyway.

I'm a firm believer any increase in hunter numbers is managed by our tag / draw system, as designed. What we don't harvest by design, winter and predators will. And if numbers continue to go down beyond that, its due to habitat loss.

[58thecat]

I think at the end of the day the fools will look for gadgets due to say laziness but then again there are a few items that hit the market that were very well thought out and will add a quality to the hunt however they are few and far between. Think before you throw out your hard earned cash, prime example, you need to get to the top of the mountain but you are overweight so you spend a lot of money to buy a rig that according to a sales man can allow you to take game at a thousand yards allowing you that little bit less exertion when really all you had to do was put down the potato chips...Salt and vinegar I prefer!

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by dbllung

I am currently sitting on a cut line 1/2 mile off the road with a .........

Maybe your luck is different than mine.

If I was sitting in a ground blind, spending time on AO, and making a post, the buck of a lifetime would walk by and I wouldn't even know he was there.
Guaranteed.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

We just went out with warm boots and clothing that carried no specific brand name. Got our game, came home and maybe got a little drunk...lol

I get your concern, and can see it in a way, but what you are saying here is that camo and many of these other "ìnnovations"`perhaps really don't do much. Agreed. I think the technology you cite isn't always as efficient as the manufacturers and advertising copywriters would have us believe. I bet just sitting over bait in Saskatchewan is more productive.

And the guy with $10,000 in technology still only has one elk tag.

[KegRiver]

Hey I might as well offer my two cents worth, seems everyone else has. LOL

Yeah I see technology making a difference. In some hunters success ratios.

Will technology wipe out wildlife populations? Perhaps some, but if so it won't be hunting technology that does it. It'll be chemicals and land development for human use that does it.

But should that become a reality, it will only be some species that disappear.
Look at Europe, they have many times the level of development that we have.
In a lot of Europe every square foot is developed and in use for human activity yet they have more Deer then we do in some areas.

Years ago several of us were discussing trapping and the subject of population densities came up. Someone observed that he thought that opening new farm land would bring an end to trapping on some areas to which my elderly uncle remarked, "there is more fur in farm country then there is in the bush" (forested lands).

My experience says he was right. More in number but less in variety.

I believe that is where we are headed. That and lower bag limits for some species and more generous limits for others.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Rabbit Snarer]

Glad to see I converted Cat: "the good old days are now"

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Rabbit Snarer

Glad to see I converted Cat: "the good old days are now"

You give yourself way too much credit .
I don't give a rat's azz who you are, what you do, how you hunt , or what you think.
My views have never changed, especially when it comes to trolls.
The only reason I am even replying to this post is so people don't get the wrong idea of your BS posts.
Cat

[expmler]

How many guys here lamenting declining populations killed something this year?

[GWN]

The technology is neutral, how it is applied and the practical impact of that application is what is important.

A perfect example would be long-range shooting technology used on the open prairies. Being able to make consistent hits beyond 400 m could easily make a significant impact on game populations if a number of shooters chose to do so and developed the necessary skill. If a hunter chose to hunt ethically in this manner and developed the skills to do so I have no problem with that.

Where I have concerns is when the technology is used as a crutch to compensate for the lack of skill or inclination to develop it.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by remmy300

Let me ask you this. What is your idea of abound? How long have you been hunting the Sundre area? I was born and raised there and I can tell you mule deer don't abound there anymore. I just spent a week between 216 and 2 other wmu's. The mule deer population in comparison to 5 years ago is scary. Literally within a hour drive we would see close to 100 md and 100 wt on a bad day. Our farm used to have 20-30 wt every night and probably that many md. The neighbors were all full of deer. I took a quick drive with dad this AM before heading north. We seen 1 wt buck no does and 30 elk that happened to be behind the house. Dad had 45 whitetails last year feeding from the end of hunting season on through. He found 14 carcasses on his 1/4. How many more died on the neighbors

Coming down the hill into town from the east and north used to have dozens of mule deer in the fields. Tell me how many you see know.

How many tracks in the snow do you see between Sundre and Caroline. Hardly any. Fields that used to be full of whitetails had no tracks. Full of alfalfa.

His words were there wont be a deer left if we have another winter like last year.

The only abundance of deer out there are in your dreams or on the shelves gracing the pages of big buck magazine or field and stream. Seeing 6 deer in town doesn't mean crap.

I actually can't even believe I responded to this. Yeah. The numbers are the same as 04. Oh my I must need to visit my local optometrist.

hunted sundre area since 04 as posted. Tons of tracks between Caroline an sundre. Sundre hill on the 22 .deer tracks all over. Dont read those glossies so cant say what they contain. 6x means 6x6 and a lady I know in town has ten in her yard. Most nights mulies of course. Mulies are all over 216 314 320 318 316. Had between five and ten pairs in one small area we have acces to . White tails are tougher to find but on the last day of season tried a new property bordering crown at least a dozen in the feild ...."jist like always " said the farmer watched between ten and thirty elk on the days they come out from a herd of over one hunderd if reports are correct. Cant speak of the past but even ten yrs ago a range finder would have been scarce. Didnt make bottrel this year ... but im quite confident the herds of deer still roam the dog pound draw. As they have since 04.

[dbllung]

Originally Posted by expmler

How many guys here lamenting declining populations killed something this year?

Elk populations are good in most areas up north so yep I arrowed one!

White tailed Deer populations are another story!!

There are always going to be some mature bucks around and some will get shot BUT when you are hunting 1 percent of a herd that is 1/2 what it used to be the odds are definitely stacked against you!

Nope never killed a deer! (I am ok with that as it is my choice whether or not to shoot a sub mature buck). Just saying that the population is way down from consecutive ugly winters!

[dbllung]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

Maybe your luck is different than mine.

If I was sitting in a ground blind, spending time on AO, and making a post, the buck of a lifetime would walk by and I wouldn't even know he was there.
Guaranteed.

As a general rule I just stare uninterrupted down the line for hours
Maybe something crossed in the time I sent that message??

That would suck!!!

Now ya got me thinkin LOL!! He was probably the next work record eh?

Yikes
B

[Rabbit Snarer]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

hunted sundre area since 04 as posted. Tons of tracks between Caroline an sundre. Sundre hill on the 22 .deer tracks all over. Dont read those glossies so cant say what they contain. 6x means 6x6 and a lady I know in town has ten in her yard. Most nights mulies of course. Mulies are all over 216 314 320 318 316. Had between five and ten pairs in one small area we have acces to . White tails are tougher to find but on the last day of season tried a new property bordering crown at least a dozen in the feild ...."jist like always " said the farmer watched between ten and thirty elk on the days they come out from a herd of over one hunderd if reports are correct. Cant speak of the past but even ten yrs ago a range finder would have been scarce. Didnt make bottrel this year ... but im quite confident the herds of deer still roam the dog pound draw. As they have since 04.

My what an imagination you have. If you actually believe ungulate numbers are as high today as they were in 2004 in this area I suggest you seek a medical assessment.

[Speckle55]

So if we are all Doom and Gloom

can I ask if you know the average number of ungulates per sq km in the WMU you hunt ?

some will say it used too be 10 a few years ago

so post a number that you think is correct

David

[remmy300]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

hunted sundre area since 04 as posted. Tons of tracks between Caroline an sundre. Sundre hill on the 22 .deer tracks all over. Dont read those glossies so cant say what they contain. 6x means 6x6 and a lady I know in town has ten in her yard. Most nights mulies of course. Mulies are all over 216 314 320 318 316. Had between five and ten pairs in one small area we have acces to . White tails are tougher to find but on the last day of season tried a new property bordering crown at least a dozen in the feild ...."jist like always " said the farmer watched between ten and thirty elk on the days they come out from a herd of over one hunderd if reports are correct. Cant speak of the past but even ten yrs ago a range finder would have been scarce. Didnt make bottrel this year ... but im quite confident the herds of deer still roam the dog pound draw. As they have since 04.

22 isnt covered up in track to caroline... I drove it yesterday. The first 3 miles north used to have pounded trails across 22. The field north on top of the hill on the west side used to have MD in at all day long. There are staggered tracks across it. There are very small pockets of deer. The deer population is for sure at least half of what it was last year.

The only reason i even reply to this thread is that something needs to change fast. The numbers are way down yet you are boasting the numbers remain constant for the past 10 years. The deer haven't moved due to food sources. it is just there are very very few deer. You might hunt that one place where there is a small pocket. That pocket does not represent the area as a whole.
The mule deer population along the river especially north of Sundre is pretty much non existent. Partially due to cougars that have cleaned out a pile of deer, partially to bad winters. One of the nieghbors cleaned up on cougars this year so hopefully that will help out. Fields that held 100 MD in mid day during the peak of hunting season... no deer to be seen.



Im not just talking 216. Tour 318. I mean not the surrounding farm land. drive through, hike,quad, get up on a high vantage point and glass the unlimted number of cut blocks. hardly a deer to be found, let alone tracks.
Go south towards Cochrane. Same thing goes. I have friends that own land and hunt hard in that stretch. Small pockets again, but the general consensus is that deer numbers are down 50% or more from the numbers 2 years ago.

Anyways this is 10 minutes I cant get back. We can squabble all day. Just will have to agree to disagree.

[remmy300]

Originally Posted by Rabbit Snarer

My what an imagination you have. If you actually believe ungulate numbers are as high today as they were in 2004 in this area I suggest you seek a medical assessment.

lol...I concur.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

hunted sundre area since 04 as posted. Tons of tracks between Caroline an sundre. Sundre hill on the 22 .deer tracks all over. Dont read those glossies so cant say what they contain. 6x means 6x6 and a lady I know in town has ten in her yard. Most nights mulies of course. Mulies are all over 216 314 320 318 316. Had between five and ten pairs in one small area we have acces to . White tails are tougher to find but on the last day of season tried a new property bordering crown at least a dozen in the feild ...."jist like always " said the farmer watched between ten and thirty elk on the days they come out from a herd of over one hunderd if reports are correct. Cant speak of the past but even ten yrs ago a range finder would have been scarce. Didnt make bottrel this year ... but im quite confident the herds of deer still roam the dog pound draw. As they have since 04.

I'm from Sundre. We used to have 20-30 deer out behind the house every night last season.This year there were three - a doe and two fawns and the "Black Truck Brigade" from Calgary killed all of them. Last year I found 7 winter killed deer on the property and if those were the ones I found, how many actually died? It certainly isn't as bleak as some want to paint it but numbers are noticeably down all over -- especially on my daily commute down the Range Roads west of 22.