I hate weatherby cartridges and calibers...For the record!

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by damienelliott

to all the weatherby gurus out there with a 300 wbymag that think they have the king of all rifles and they are the best thing going i do belive that the 300 rum is a superior cartridge and it is not a weatherby made one either and to buy a gun chambered in this better cartridge would be half the price of a so called good weatherby the thing you should do with a weatherby is buy 1 and burn it so no 1 else ever owns it

You may want to take a look at weatherby's other 30 Cal bullet the 30-378. Again just a bit better than the 300 rum

[elkhunter11]

You may want to take a look at weatherby's other 30 Cal bullet the 30-378. Again just a bit better than the 300 rum

So why would a bullet be any different just because it is used the the 30-378?Both the 30-378 and 300RUM can use exactly the same bullets.

[North of 53]

QUOTE=Rockymtnx;543718]Please explain yourself a little further......


Ok Rocky listen close.
Roy Weatherby made a marketing choice long ago. He decided that they would do what ever it took to have the fastest cartridge in any given caliber. They never said they would try and have the most accurate cartridge just the fastest. You see the fastest cartridge is quantifiable so guys can say mine is faster than yours and never really have to do anything. If I say mine gun is more accurate than yours I have to put my skill on the line as well as my gun. Roy Weatherby banked on the fact that the testosterone driven gun buying public, many suffering from dick shrink,would rather be able to say mine is bigger than yours than they would actually have to have some skill. Weatherby rifles are known for a few things, nice wood, strong actions, fast bullets and high cost. What they are not know for,is accuracy. Now there are lots of Weatherby rifles out there that shoot accurate, but that is more a matter of luck than design.
In order to get the velocity that the Weatherbys are noted for they had to design the rifle with a longer free-bore than most other rifles. Accurate rifles tend to have one thing in common, little free-bore.
A longer free-bore can make it harder to shoot higher B.C. bullets accurately. If a Weatherby starting out with 200 ft/sec edge at the muzzle can't shoot the higher B.C. bullets, we may find that the rifle that can shoot the high B.C. bullets actually hits harder out at 500 yards and past. Weatherby made a choice that they would sacrifice potential accuracy for velocity. In short Weatherbys are known for lots of wonderful things accuracy is just not one of them. Savage is known for lots of things some good some bad but one thing they are getting known for more and more is accuracy.
I have not heard of anyone taking a factory Weatherby and trying to shoot F-class. There are people shooting F-class with other brands of factory rifles. The problem for Weatherby and shooting something like F-class is that no one cares how pretty your gun is or how much you paid, they only care how accurate it shoots. In my world when it comes to my rifles, accuracy trumps looks and velocity. That is what I meant when I said Weatherby works harder at hitting the target market than hitting the target.
Smart marketing maybe but they are not selling one to me and I spend a lot on my rifles every year. I just consider myself a little more pragmatic than the Weatherby crowd.

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So why would a bullet be any different just because it is used the the 30-378?Both the 30-378 and 300RUM can use exactly the same bullets.

Yes elkhunter11 you are correct my point as I believe damienelliot was trying to make was more about the ballistics of this cartridge it is a step up from the 300rum

[elkhunter11]

Yes elkhunter11 you are correct my point as I believe damienelliot was trying to make was more about the ballistics of this cartridge it is a step up from the 300rum

A small increase in velocity,for a huge increase in the cost of brass and factory loads,a noticeable increase in recoil,and a decrease in barrel life due to more rapid throat erosion.And to those that care,the 30-378 magazine also holds one less round.

[gatorr]

[QUOTE=North of 53;543949]


Now there are lots of Weatherby rifles out there that shoot accurate, but that is more a matter of luck than design.


Wow,you really dont know what your talking about,do you?

[North of 53]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A small increase in velocity,for a huge increase in the cost of brass and factory loads,a noticeable increase in recoil,and a decrease in barrel life due to more rapid throat erosion.And to those that care,the 30-378 magazine also holds one less round.

One more point that if that Weatherby has trouble shooting a high B.C. bullet as many do,then the 300 rum will pass the 30-378 by 400 yards. If you are shooting that kind of power I am thinking you are wanting to kill something out past 400 yards. At that range the 30-378 may not be the big boy on the block.

[North of 53]

[QUOTE=gatorr;543992]

Originally Posted by North of 53

Now there are lots of Weatherby rifles out there that shoot accurate, but that is more a matter of luck than design.
Wow, you really dont have a clue what your talking about do you?

Gatorr thank you so much for your post. I rest my case on the testosterone driven Weatherby crowd. I don't think I could have found any better way to prove my point than your post.
Thanks again.

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A small increase in velocity,for a huge increase in the cost of brass and factory loads,a noticeable increase in recoil,and a decrease in barrel life due to more rapid throat erosion.And to those that care,the 30-378 magazine also holds one less round.

Yes but it only takes one round. And of you are comparing apples to apples my 30-378 accumark to say a Remington sendero not a lot in the price of the gun when I bought mine, bullet price yes double and I would think that becuse they are close ballistically that the throat errosion would be about the same. When you are only using the gun to hunt with and on my average year putting around 8 or so shells through it I am not to concerned about barrel burnout. Maybe when I retire in about 15 more years and I am sitting down at the gun range every other day will worry about that.

[eltorro]

I believe Norma makes Weatherby ammo. Anything Norma is expensive, but proprietary cartridges that get a royalty on top of the regular price... it gets expensive fast.
Ammo made by Federal is cheaper.

The only problem that ever held me back from owning one is the noise. Quite a bit of it.

[The cooter]

Well someone finally figured it out,Thanks JAYBULL for finally bringing it to everyone's attention.(By the way I can't take all the credit truly wasn't my idea I stole it) As for eating crow? I got no problem with it I like it with hot sauce. Or maybe in a pasta dish. ( But I don't think it will happen) Funny what boardome will do to a guy.Post crazy inmature threads I guess according to some people. Maybe on that note I'LL BUY A WEATHERBY Oh ya TIKKA RULES......... Weatherby's drool..................

[The cooter]

Gatorr it's still on Maybe for pink's

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I think that there is a certain pride that people have for their firearms.For some,it is being able to say that they have the most accurate gun out there.For others it might be that they have the most beautiful gun.Others would say bang for the buck is most important.

It's kind of like saying My Mercedes is better than your Camry.Or my Camry is better than your Mercedes.They will both get you to where you want to go.Both are nice vehicles,it's just one costs significantly more.That extra money spent on the Mercedes is for the little things that the owner appreciates and is willing to shell out for.

I have to admit that I checked out a few rifles a few months back.I held a Browning X-bolt,Tikka T3,Remington XCR,and then a Sako 85.The Sako did feel the best to me;nice quick shouldering,smooth-as-butter bolt.But when holding it, I also knew I could say to the buddies that I've got a SAKO.The problem is that it was significantly more money.I still have not purchased yet but think that in order to keep the wife happy financially and after reading some reviews I will probably go with the T3.

I don't know of any rifles that shoot Horrible and for most shots (within say 350 yards) the accuracy of any guns I listed and my abilities as a shooter, ALL of them will kill an animal if I'm steady.

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by North of 53

One more point that if that Weatherby has trouble shooting a high B.C. bullet as many do,then the 300 rum will pass the 30-378 by 400 yards. If you are shooting that kind of power I am thinking you are wanting to kill something out past 400 yards. At that range the 30-378 may not be the big boy on the block.

Not sure were you are getting your facts but if you go to conely ballistics it will show you that at 400 yards that the 30-378 with 180 gr nosler par centered at 200 has. Drop of 13.86. Muzzle velocity of 2615 and energy of 2734. Now the 300 rum same bullet centered at 200. Drop is 15.25 muzzle velocity of 2496 and energy of 2490. Notice the energy of the 30-378 at 400 yards its not dropping. Still the big boy according to those facts.

[gatorr]

[QUOTE=North of 53;544002]

Originally Posted by gatorr

Gatorr thank you so much for your post. I rest my case on the testosterone driven Weatherby crowd. I don't think I could have found any better way to prove my point than your post.
Thanks again.

You sure do like using the testosterone word alot dont you? Testosterone driven? You bet, Iam male. What drives you? Estrogen?

[Uncle John]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGFISH
Weatherby's are like John Deere's, (There are two types of people in this world, those who have them and those that wish they did.)


Quote:
This thread, has about as much thought as saying " I hate chocolate ice cream"



Oh Oh, I just realized, I love my Weatherby, and I LOVE my John Deere's and I really don't care at all for chocolate ice cream... I'm a certifiable snob! And a buddy I hunt with on occasion shoots a Savage too, spose that'll be the end of that now.

Guess we all can't love the same woman, hey?

[North of 53]

Originally Posted by crawfy

Not sure were you are getting your facts but if you go to conely ballistics it will show you that at 400 yards that the 30-378 with 180 gr nosler par centered at 200 has. Drop of 13.86. Muzzle velocity of 2615 and energy of 2734. Now the 300 rum same bullet centered at 200. Drop is 15.25 muzzle velocity of 2496 and energy of 2490. Notice the energy of the 30-378 at 400 yards its not dropping. Still the big boy according to those facts.

That's my point the Weatherby WOULD probably be shooting something like a 180 nosler par bullet. Probably because lots of Weatherbys have trouble shooting something like a vld accurately because of their free-bore. The 300 rum shooting the vld because it can and does very well, with its higher bc will be faster as it get out there than the nosler that started off faster.
The 30-378 may start off faster but if it can't handle higher BC bullets , and many can't it gets left in the dust when things stretch out
180 nosler at muzzle 3400 ft/sec 4600ft.lb
185 VLD 3200at muzzle 4200 ft/bl
nosler 180 at 800 yards 1900 ft/sec 1475 ft/lbs
185 VLD at 800 yards 1985 ft/sec 1619 ft/lbs
That is also giving the 30-378 more of a velocity edge than any loading manual I have ever seen. But even then if you have trouble shooting very high B.C. bullets you just can't reach out like other guns can.
The 30-378 may be the big boy on the block but only if you keep the block small.

[elkhunter11]

bullet price yes double and I would think that becuse they are close ballistically that the throat errosion would be about the same.

Bullet price is not double it is the same,I can't help but think that you don't know the difference between a bullet,and a loaded cartridge.If you burn more powder,to make more velocity,throat erosion increases.

When you are only using the gun to hunt with and on my average year putting around 8 or so shells through it I am not to concerned about barrel burnout.

If you only fire 8 or so rounds per year through the gun,you will never become familiar enough with the gun to gain any advantage by using the 30-378.The 30-378 offers an advantage only at longer ranges and only to those people with well above average shooting skills that can actually gain from that increased velocity.

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by North of 53

That's my point the Weatherby WOULD probably be shooting something like a 180 nosler par bullet. Probably because lots of Weatherbys have trouble shooting something like a vld accurately because of their free-bore. The 300 rum shooting the vld because it can and does very well, with its higher bc will be faster as it get out there than the nosler that started off faster.
The 30-378 may start off faster but if it can't handle higher BC bullets , and many can't it gets left in the dust when things stretch out
180 nosler at muzzle 3400 ft/sec 4600ft.lb
185 VLD 3200at muzzle 4200 ft/bl
nosler 180 at 800 yards 1900 ft/sec 1475 ft/lbs
185 VLD at 800 yards 1985 ft/sec 1619 ft/lbs
That is also giving the 30-378 more of a velocity edge than any loading manual I have ever seen. But even then if you have trouble shooting very high B.C. bullets you just can't reach out like other guns can.
The 30-378 may be the big boy on the block but only if you keep the block small.

Not to sure what you are trying to say here but it looks like you agree with me.
The 30-378 has many bullet choices I used that as an eg. Where do you get that a 30-378 does not shoot the vld well. Go to the Best Of The West site, the boys that IMO made the vld as famous as it is. They make ammunition called HSM which they happen to load in a 185 vld in the 30-378. I can't see them making a load for the 30-378 if it could not perform well. These are the guys that promote one shot long distance kills. Any way we are staring a whole new thread about bullets.

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Bullet price is not double it is the same,I can't help but think that you don't know the difference between a bullet,and a loaded cartridge.If you burn more powder,to make more velocity,throat erosion increases.



If you only fire 8 or so rounds per year through the gun,you will never become familiar enough with the gun to gain any advantage by using the 30-378.The 30-378 offers an advantage only at longer ranges and only to those people with well above average shooting skills that can actually gain from that increased velocity.

Again I can see I have to be exact with you a box of factory ammunition is about double how's that sound. And I totally disagree with your second comment. Maybe you need to expand on why you think only a person with above average shooting skills will actually gain from shooting this caliber.

[KENWORTH]

I cannot belive I read this mindless dribble,......

who cares if the ammo is double, or how much it cost, as long as you get out and shoot the damb thing....

I don't care how much my " BEE " cost's me in ammo, or barrels, or brass,...If I kill it, i'll get another one, It's why I work.

...and crawfy, A-MAX 208g's, turn coyote's inside out, with the big bee.

[chinook]

My experience with Weatherbys.

I won a synthetic Vanguard a year ago in my local hunting club raffle in 300WSM. I topped it with a 4x12 Leopold scope and this gun is a tack driver. I let my Dad use it on a moose hunt in Newfoundland. After a week of not seeing any shooters he finally settled on a young bull the last day. Was only offered a head shot at about 100 yards, and gun performed flawlessly.

Im taking it to Kodiak Island next week, so I'll let you know how it does on a brown bear.


I also have a German made Mark V in 7mm Wby Mag. I put a round in the chamber, closed the bolt and turned on safety. When I took off safety the gun fired. THANK GOD it was pointed downrange. It now has a new safety, but I no longer have confidence in this gun.


My favorite gun though is a Ruger M77 in 7x57 that was my Grandfathers--made in early 70's. I've killed over 40 deer and 2 black bears with it and never a problem. It is my "go to" gun.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by maxpower2506

here here !!!!!!!!! What was that old saying Jealousy breeds contempt !!!

I believe the correct saying is "Familarity breeds contempt." But that wouldn't work here would it?
For the record I love all guns..

[leo]

209X50 hit the nail on the head! I too love all guns , some more than others . Guns are like people. You can't black ball a race or gender because of an odd rotten apple. You might find 10% of firearms by a specific manufacturer that are not up to accuracy expectations, but that doesn't mean they all suck! Just like people ,we also find traits and attributes that are appealing,or not.

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

Here's something for those who figure Weatherby's are sooo much more expensive... Straight out of the 2009 Wholsale Sports catalogue...

Page 4
Remington 700 Alaskan .270 WSM...$2,399.95

Page 24
Weatherby Mk.V Synthetic .270 Wby. Mag...$1299.95

But what's $1,100 MORE for a Remington

Page 116
Federal Premium .270 wsm Ammo... $62.99

Page 122
Weatherby .270 Wby Mag Ammo....$65.99

And you ca always find a better deal somewhere...lol

Thank you for pointing this out. It seems that most manufactures have a model or several models that runs up close to this $2000 mark. Let’s not forget that there is a pile of guns that are even double that price and may that exceed that too. Nobody seems to be bashing those guns right now.

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by North of 53

Roy Weatherby made a marketing choice long ago. He decided that they would do what ever it took to have the fastest cartridge in any given caliber.

This may have been their marketing ploy 60 years ago, but sure isn’t now. The velocities and energies from a Weatherby cartridge are far from being at the top of the pack the past 20 years. So why do you claim this is their current stance?

[honda450]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Thank you for pointing this out. It seems that most manufactures have a model or several models that runs up close to this $2000 mark. Let’s not forget that there is a pile of guns that are even double that price and may that exceed that too. Nobody seems to be bashing those guns right now.

Ya got that right Rocky. Take a look at this bad boy. I think you should buy it.



http://www.serengetirifles.com/custo...limanjaro.html

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by honda450

Ya got that right Rocky. Take a look at this bad boy. I think you should buy it.
http://www.serengetirifles.com/custo...limanjaro.html

Looks like a beauty. It’s even available in a Mark V based action.
I will put on my 649 wish list.
A couple days ago I was shopping for guns on gunbroker.com and seen one over $100,000 and numerous over $50,000.

[elkhunter11]

Maybe you need to expand on why you think only a person with above average shooting skills will actually gain from shooting this caliber.

Actually 30-378 does not designate a caliber,it designates a cartridge that uses a .308" bullet,just like a 308win.30-06,or 300win mag do.

As for the advantages of cartridges such as the 30-378,their main advantage is the velocity which allows for a flatter trajectory and less wind drift.The flatter trajectory and reduced wind drift are only significant at longer ranges where only better than average shooters have the ability to consistently place their bullets with precision.If the shooter only intends to shot 8 or so rounds per year with a given firearm,he will never become familiar enough with the trajectory,wind drift,or effect on velocity that temperature has on that load to be accurate at longer distances.An average or below average shooter would be far better off with a 30-06 class cartridge that he can afford to shoot a great deal and learn the trajectory ,wind drift and the effects of temperature on the load that he is using.A shooter that is very familiar with his 30-06,will almost always be more accurate than a shooter that shoots 8 or so rounds out of a 30-378.Far too many people purchase a rifle in a chambering such as the 300RUM,or 30-378,and think that they instantly become competent long range shooters,when in fact,they don't know their rifle or their load well enough to be able to use the cartridge to anywhere near it's potential.I spend probably 30 to 50 days per year at the range,and I see plenty of people that fit that description.Spend some time at a shooting range,and you will see for yourself that the better shooters are the people that shoot more often,not the people that shoot the most powerful cartridges.

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Actually 30-378 does not designate a caliber,it designates a cartridge that uses a .308" bullet,just like a 308win.30-06,or 300win mag do.

As for the advantages of cartridges such as the 30-378,their main advantage is the velocity which allows for a flatter trajectory and less wind drift.The flatter trajectory and reduced wind drift are only significant at longer ranges where only better than average shooters have the ability to consistently place their bullets with precision.If the shooter only intends to shot 8 or so rounds per year with a given firearm,he will never become familiar enough with the trajectory,wind drift,or effect on velocity that temperature has on that load to be accurate at longer distances.An average or below average shooter would be far better off with a 30-06 class cartridge that he can afford to shoot a great deal and learn the trajectory ,wind drift and the effects of temperature on the load that he is using.A shooter that is very familiar with his 30-06,will almost always be more accurate than a shooter that shoots 8 or so rounds out of a 30-378.Far too many people purchase a rifle in a chambering such as the 300RUM,or 30-378,and think that they instantly become competent long range shooters,when in fact,they don't know their rifle or their load well enough to be able to use the cartridge to anywhere near it's potential.I spend probably 30 to 50 days per year at the range,and I see plenty of people that fit that description.Spend some time at a shooting range,and you will see for yourself that the better shooters are the people that shoot more often,not the people that shoot the most powerful cartridges.

Not disagreeing with you the more you practice the better you will be with any gun and caliberWt. Grains Bullet Type 100 Yds 200 Yds 300 Yds 400 Yds 500 Yds
130 Barnes TTSX .350 2.1 2.9 0.0 -7.2 -19.6
165 Barnes TSX .380 2.4 3.1 0.0 -7.4 -19.6
165 BST .475 2.4 3.0 0.0 -7.4 -19.5
180 BST .507 2.5 3.1 0.0 -7.5 -20.0
180 Accubond .507 2.5 3.1 0.0 -7.5 -20.0
180 Barnes TSX .453 2.7 3.4 0.0 -8.1 -21.8
200 Partition .481 3.2 3.9 0.0 -9.1 -24.3

However with that said and these figures point, aim,pull the trigger. Yes i am not new to this game of shooting and i have no intentions of becoming a precise bench shooter, so if i safely and consistenly shoot my animals ever year and i am pleased with the gun and what it does that is what most matters to me. By the way i do have other makes models and calibers of guns just find this to be my most favorite gun. Hope to see you in the field/range one day as you seem to be a very knowledgable person and i am sure you could teach me alot about shooting.

Thanks
Greg