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12-11-2018, 03:59 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: South West Alberta
Posts: 845
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Think about this. Lots of these folks that support this NDP Parks proposal do not like hunters and people that own firearms. Just another hòok in more gun control taking more opportunity away from tax payers that used to use these areas that only the chosen few can use in the future
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12-11-2018, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_davey
And yes, it’s very relevant, you started to care once it affected an area you frequent, a place you didn’t spend time(Castle/Livingstone) you didn’t give a $H!t.
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Mmmm....well this could be fun
I know Theres probably not much point keeping this going as I seem to have become your boogy man to attack, but meh... I can’t resist! I’m having fun now! My fragile pride is at steak. (That would be venison steak. Backstrap. With rinellas gremolata)
Let’s examine a few little personal life facts now that judgment has been passed!
Was I involved with the castle: no. Did I know anything about the castle? No. I didn’t even know it was a wild place until AFTER the dust had already settled and that information was gleaned solely through threads on this forum...which I joined in 2016....and the castle debacle was, by my research, 2015. Hmmm.
But, am I ****ed off about the castle now? ....you can bet your armadillo I am! (I’m just going on a limb...you do have one right? )
And yes, you’re right, I am from a different area. So no, I’m not educated about your area. Why is this? Let’s pull up a microscope:
I, in 2016 (1 year after the castle consultations) was (drum roll)....a brand spanking new hunter! I grew up in a province with no deer, grew up without guns, and surprise, i didn’t grow up hunting. So, in 2016 my main focus and time was spent: understanding how to hunt deer, hunting deer, understanding what the heck were WMUs and all that other land stuff, finding out where I can hunt deer IN MY AREA etc. Etc. Etc. So thats 120% of my time, the other 90% of time is balancing commuting an hour one way to a concrete finishing job of 1000hrs/week and being a new father. So, was the castle a priority on my radar? ......nope. And I didn’t know it existed to boot.
To further this treatise...maybe I live with my head in the sand (it’s quiet and very peaceful in there) but the porcupine is brand new news to me (Say that a few times fast). Am I ****ed off about it now that I’m educated? ....yup.
You were at these meetings 20years ago. Good. I am glad. You have my thanks and respect. Reading between the lines I am gleaning that I should have been there. I will let my mother know she should have had me there...as I would have been 9....in a different province.....on the other side of Canada. Shame on me!
My point behind all of this is: attacking me just cause I’m late to the war does what? So I wasn’t there for the castle or the porcupine (and yes I have hunted the porcupine in the past so that does affect me), if I interpret you correctly, because I don’t have your cool experience fighting this From the very beginning I need to go stick my head back in the sand? How does that help us?
Kind respectful education on the issue would go a lot farther. That’s been my main reason behind this discussion; the bighorn was new information for me, right, wrong, whatever, it is what it is. I’ve been off AO for almost a year now, and it seems to be one of the more reliable places to find out about things that affect us, without government worded bias. So this thread was a response to my shock. Read around post 118 or 119, turns out I’m not the only one. Read posts from oilernation. Turns out I am not the only one. So....instead of a negative shut down can I kindly ask for either silence or respectful education on the matter at hand? Dividing us doesn’t do a dam bit of good.
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12-11-2018, 09:51 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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That’s great that you are passionate about it now. Hopefully you can find the time, you sound like the busiest young guy on the face of the planet .
Start making phone calls to your MLA and be passionate and persistent. Quit wasting your valuable time on government surveys that won’t help one bit. Cals post tells us exactly that and he is a very honest person.
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12-11-2018, 10:34 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denali Dave
Wow, just seeing this now. I won’t comment much on this until I know more of the facts regarding land dispositions. That map is a huge area though. I fully agree with the above post about foreign funding and the Y2Y objective. More research is definitely required. Apologies to those that fought and lost the Castle area, I did not hear about this happening. I’m also not jumping on any band wagon hear but I do intend on making an attempt to have my voice heard on the Bighorn proposal. Sick and tired of having to defend my position in life against funded activist groups who seem to be telling our governments what to do. First, we need to look at our resources, who’s backing us? How can we become one and have a presence in the matter? Has anybody started a petition against this??
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I believe there was (I think? 17,000 names?). Don’t think it went anywhere. Sounds like contacting mla and others may be the best road.
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12-11-2018, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_davey
That’s great that you are passionate about it now. Hopefully you can find the time, you sound like the busiest young guy on the face of the planet .
Start making phone calls to your MLA and be passionate and persistent. Quit wasting your valuable time on government surveys that won’t help one bit. Cals post tells us exactly that and he is a very honest person.
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Thank you sir, will do.
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12-12-2018, 07:11 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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Abe89, thanks for the info. If the first one didn’t work then maybe we need to start another one? I’m sure most would be all for certain conservation and preservation of the area, my biggest concern is how the NDP is being lobbied by these extremist groups to force this upon Albertans with the fake propaganda and it comes with an enormous cost to our heritage. Does anybody have a list of contacts for the MLAs/MPs one could email?
I think we have a very valid discussion here with our members and maybe we need to pool ideas and branch off. Does anybody know of any organizations that are backing or funding us as owners of the land? We desperately need their help.
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12-12-2018, 07:14 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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Us hunters and anglers are a very persistent and hardy bunch, we can’t give up on this, not yet.
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12-12-2018, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 216
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Sorry boys the Bighorn and how you used to use it will slowly fade away.. Shannon Phillips and her environmentalist friends wants to leave their imprint on Alberta and they are being successful. No way you can win this fight, people who tried in the Castle area lost. I'm ashamed to be from Lethbridge and have Mrs Phillips represent my hometown.
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12-12-2018, 01:02 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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So I’ve been to numerous websites and the Facebook pages looking for a petition. Does anybody have a link. Unfortunately I’m currently 8 hours or so from Rocky Mountain House at work and won’t be making it to the public meetings. Somebody please post a link.
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12-12-2018, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Airdrie
Posts: 1,490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Husty
Sorry boys the Bighorn and how you used to use it will slowly fade away.. Shannon Phillips and her environmentalist friends wants to leave their imprint on Alberta and they are being successful. No way you can win this fight, people who tried in the Castle area lost. I'm ashamed to be from Lethbridge and have Mrs Phillips represent my hometown.
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AFGA Opposes UCP Leader Jason Kenney's
Plan to Sell Public Land
Alberta's largest conservation group, the Alberta Fish & Game Association (AFGA), has learned that the United Conservative Party under Jason Kenney is seriously looking at the idea of auctioning off more crown land in Alberta's north Peace country if he and his Party are elected.
Deeming the land identified as being for sale as "unproductive" and turning it into "productive agricultural land" should raise red flags for all Albertans as large tracts of land are necessary for the survival of fish, wildlife and biodiversity in general.
"It is government's responsibility to steward the land for all Albertans; an action that does not involve selling it. This sentiment has been expressed by Albertans on a continuous basis," said AFGA President Doug Butler. "I encourage every concerned Albertan to contact Mr. Kenney and let their feelings be known," he continued. UCP, as well as other Party's candidates, should also be contacted and have this information shared with them.
Further, Jason Kenney also indicated that if elected he would draft orders in council so cabinet could make quick changes on big issues rather than be bogged down by consultation. Consultation is the backbone of democracy. The legacy continues as in 2011, the then PC Government under Ed Stelmach quietly auctioned 120,000 acres of Crown land that virtually no one knew of until the sale was completed.
The Alberta Fish and Game Association is a not-for-profit volunteer organization proud to serve Albertans in the promotion of the wise use of our fish and wildlife resources and the conservation of their habitats. The AFGA has been active since 1908 in working towards these goals and has a province-wide membership of more than 25,000 individuals spread among 80+ Clubs.
CONTACT:
Doug Butler, President, (780) 895-7799
Martin Sharren, Executive Vice President, (780) 437-2342
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12-12-2018, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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If I have the timelines right, Kenny stated this like 3 months ago? AFGA is immediately all over it.
Castle gets shut down, porcupine and Livingston the next year. AFGA final puts out a release almost 2 years after all the southern closures started, condemning the closures.
Maybe AFGA is also motivated by “meh, not in my backyard so who cares”
Seems like the peace country is in somebodies back yard so this is now a major concern. I’ll be opting out of my membership next year.
Their inaction on the southern closures and condemnation of Kenny shows they have their own agendas as well, and they don’t line up with my priorities.
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12-12-2018, 09:39 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 242
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Did some more looking around, wrote a few messages to some organizations on fb looking for ideas from others who have been fighting this for a while. Here’s a summary:
I would start by researching posts from May to now and understand the issue well. Be able to articulate it. There's a big fear that it'll be like Castle 2.0.
Call your MLA, write Shannon Phillips and Notley, and most important do sincerely and clearly state in every comment why you do not support the Bighorn Proposal, which is outside of the legislative framework.
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12-12-2018, 10:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,630
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Got a recorded call from the minister's office inviting me to participate in a public telephone discussion tomorrow evening, Dec. 13. I have recreated by hunting and fishing in the Bighorn area over the past 45 years so it will be interesting to listen to and maybe even impart a word or two. I'm sure some other AO members must have gotten the same call.
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This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
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It is when you walk alone in nature that you discover your strengths and weaknesses. ~ Red Bullets
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12-13-2018, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bullets
Got a recorded call from the minister's office inviting me to participate in a public telephone discussion tomorrow evening, Dec. 13. I have recreated by hunting and fishing in the Bighorn area over the past 45 years so it will be interesting to listen to and maybe even impart a word or two. I'm sure some other AO members must have gotten the same call.
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I received the same call last night.
Why can I not find any information on the internet with regards to this telephone discussion taking place tonight?
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12-13-2018, 12:20 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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If anybody wants to listen in on the conference call mentioned above here is the phone number that was posted on another site
6:30pm
1-877-229-8493
Code 115500#
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12-13-2018, 12:41 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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One more way to reach Notley is her office number. You will get the receptionist but ALL calls are typed out and reviewed and logged. This is just one more option to voice your disgust.
Edmonton
780-427-2251
Inside Alberta
310-0000
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12-13-2018, 02:05 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denali Dave
One more way to reach Notley is her office number. You will get the receptionist but ALL calls are typed out and reviewed and logged. This is just one more option to voice your disgust.
Edmonton
780-427-2251
Inside Alberta
310-0000
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Thanks denali. Helpful information.
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12-13-2018, 02:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: South West Alberta
Posts: 845
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For what it is worth we have a election coming up in 2019. All of us need to focus on removing this NDP dictatorship out of office once and for all.. We need to lobby the UPC hard to to combat NDP on more than this issue as well and win the next election. Firearm owners in this country turfed Bill C-68 a few years back and there was lots of doom and gloom back then too. The NDP used to be a working mans party, they are far from that now. Have a good day every one.
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12-13-2018, 08:04 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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Just got off the phone listening to Shannon Phillips conference call. Sounds like over 20,000 people sat in on the conversation. Ya ask me it was pretty one sided, almost like they were screening the questions. She swears up and down that the outfitters are all for this and that nothing is going to change in regards to access. I see they have also released a plan for the Wood Buffalo area. Seems to be concentrating on oil and gas sectors. I suspect that something in the peace country will be coming up shortly.
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12-13-2018, 08:23 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,969
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I listened in to this as well and what kept coming into my mind was how can I trust you. Lot's of the right statements on no change in use but the election is coming and her past history is not one that builds trust. I have written in on my concerns on changes in use and layers of restrictions being added so time will tell.
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12-13-2018, 09:06 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denali Dave
Just got off the phone listening to Shannon Phillips conference call. Sounds like over 20,000 people sat in on the conversation. Ya ask me it was pretty one sided, almost like they were screening the questions. She swears up and down that the outfitters are all for this and that nothing is going to change in regards to access. I see they have also released a plan for the Wood Buffalo area. Seems to be concentrating on oil and gas sectors. I suspect that something in the peace country will be coming up shortly.
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they announced an extension to a park in nothern alberta today thats larger then edmonton, red deer and some other cities.
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12-14-2018, 08:30 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3illy
they announced an extension to a park in nothern alberta today thats larger then edmonton, red deer and some other cities.
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Yellowstone to Yukon! Makes me sick, its not that I enjoy provincial parks but they do not replace the value of crown/wilderness areas. I doubt any future government will remove established provincial parks? Seems like political suicide to me.
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12-14-2018, 12:07 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Husty
Yellowstone to Yukon! Makes me sick, its not that I enjoy provincial parks but they do not replace the value of crown/wilderness areas. I doubt any future government will remove established provincial parks? Seems like political suicide to me.
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They just may remove them. There is evidence out there that illegal consultations have been done and they may just remove park status from the big horn.
Castle pp and wild lands where done by order in council. So a flick of the wrist and these are removed as well.
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12-14-2018, 12:32 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta for the most part
Posts: 2,811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy
They just may remove them. There is evidence out there that illegal consultations have been done and they may just remove park status from the big horn.
Castle pp and wild lands where done by order in council. So a flick of the wrist and these are removed as well.
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Please tell Us more about this
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12-14-2018, 12:41 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimrod
Please tell Us more about this
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If anything I would have to guess that at public consultations where only interest groups that supported the park were allowed to speak or even enter the venues.. Bad reporting that excludes methods where they derived disturbance from OHV, or excluding certain numbers. Maybe im speaking out my butt tho. Maybe the whole bait and switch of banning OHVs.
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12-14-2018, 12:45 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta for the most part
Posts: 2,811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Husty
If anything I would have to guess that at public consultations where only interest groups that supported the park were allowed to speak or even enter the venues.. Bad reporting that excludes methods where they derived disturbance from OHV, or excluding certain numbers. Maybe im speaking out my butt tho. Maybe the whole bait and switch of banning OHVs.
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Its hope this all goes away, about the Big Horn Country
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12-14-2018, 02:25 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 242
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Denali Dave has got a link to a petition going on another thread.
I know popular opinion is that this government is going to steamroll this regardless of anything we do, but I have to believe that the more ways we can band together and make our voices heard...well if it counts for nothing I’ll sleep better knowing I tried.
Right now it really seems like the government is doing everything they can to paint a one sided picture to win over public opinion. Thats what I’m gleaning: screened phone conference, deleted fb posts, none consultant type meetings. All to win the majority of the public opinion which perhaps do not have the same concerns or use of public land as we do...so it all sounds good.
Do the survey, do the petition, write clear letters to mla’s, notley, phillips, whoever; post them on fb, your page and theirs, message them, email them, get them to the opposition...anyone know ways to get stuff in the news? Perhaps if we can’t affect government there’s ways to affect public opinion.
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12-14-2018, 03:59 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,969
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Agreed all you can do is keeping pushing back. That way at least they cannot say "Well no one opposed the measure".
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12-17-2018, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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Meeting in Rocky tonight. Sounds like they are asking for people to come at 7pm in a show of force. Please pass along.
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12-17-2018, 08:02 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
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Also, here is a screenshot of Y2Y financials showing foreign funds from their Montana branch. Almost $5.5 million in two years, and more than 8.5 over the last 7 years indicatinting they have really stepped up their game. Unfortunately anything past 2011 was not available. Not sure why my screen shots are so crappy?
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