View Poll Results: Would You Support Volunteer Police Departments?
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Yes
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79 |
45.14% |
No
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96 |
54.86% |
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10-12-2017, 03:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SK
Posts: 120
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This is the dumbest suggestion I have heard in a long time.
And yes I live in rural sk where it takes the police an hour or more to arrive on a 911 call.
There are No Such Things as an easy call. I guess many of you have forgotten or are maybe to young to remember the Mayerthrope Alberta Tragedy....4 officers initially went to the farm to assist bailiffs in trying to repossess a truck, the end result 4 officers shot to death.
Spiritwood SK , 2 officers called to an assault , a chase took place.....End Result 2 officers shot to death.
Those were 2 pretty straight forward calls.....That ended in 6 trained officers killed in the line of duty..... Not Wannabe Cops....HMMMM
__________________
"Overkill.............is WAY underrated.".
"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."
- Bob Hagel
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10-12-2017, 03:17 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge
I am willing to pay more!
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And so am I.. But I would only pay for a proper force (RCMP or provincial), not these POC wannabe cops that OP is talking about.
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10-12-2017, 03:19 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by possum
This is the dumbest suggestion I have heard in a long time.
And yes I live in rural sk where it takes the police an hour or more to arrive on a 911 call.
There are No Such Things as an easy call. I guess many of you have forgotten or are maybe to young to remember the Mayerthrope Alberta Tragedy....4 officers initially went to the farm to assist bailiffs in trying to repossess a truck, the end result 4 officers shot to death.
Spiritwood SK , 2 officers called to an assault , a chase took place.....End Result 2 officers shot to death.
Those were 2 pretty straight forward calls.....That ended in 6 trained officers killed in the line of duty..... Not Wannabe Cops....HMMMM
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Bingo..
But I'm sure if some Farmer came running over with his shotgun, it would've ended w/o a conflict.. sigh..
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10-12-2017, 03:51 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 7,351
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A rural well run crime watch group would be the best bet and least expensive.
As the last few posters suggested paying more would be probably be better bet but would be very expensive.
Another option (also expensive) but maybe more doable would be a rural task force numbering 30-40 members(maybe smaller or larger)Mounties or Provincial. They could be moved as needed to trouble areas to patrol and enforce and help set up good crime watch and locking practices. Then moved to another area.
They could be used in other situations as well when needed. Maybe even split the force to cover more areas and such as well. Some thing to consider. And would be easier to lobby for.
__________________
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eat a snickers
made in Alberta__ born n raised.
FS-Tinfool hats by the roll.
Last edited by huntsfurfish; 10-12-2017 at 04:20 PM.
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10-12-2017, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,614
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Look at the ridiculous amount of tax we are all paying. To say the money isn't there for a few more properly trained professional police officers is just a lie. The police force generates a fair bit of revenue on their own. Everywhere you look there's people texting and driving, no seat belts, burnt out headlights, beer cans in the ditch, speeding, running stop signs you name it. Surely if the police were on patrol enforcing the above infractions they couldn't help but run into the real criminals as well. There is too much liability for the general public to be expected to "serve and protect" too many things can go wrong and if there is no witness it's not going to go anywhere in court anyways.
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10-12-2017, 03:57 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by possum
This is the dumbest suggestion I have heard in a long time.
And yes I live in rural sk where it takes the police an hour or more to arrive on a 911 call.
There are No Such Things as an easy call. I guess many of you have forgotten or are maybe to young to remember the Mayerthrope Alberta Tragedy....4 officers initially went to the farm to assist bailiffs in trying to repossess a truck, the end result 4 officers shot to death.
Spiritwood SK , 2 officers called to an assault , a chase took place.....End Result 2 officers shot to death.
Those were 2 pretty straight forward calls.....That ended in 6 trained officers killed in the line of duty..... Not Wannabe Cops....HMMMM
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Neither of your scenarios have anything to do with vehicle or other theft. I would not call an assault a straight forward call, and the fact that 4 officers went to a call is ANYTHING but straight forward.
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10-12-2017, 04:06 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
Raab...so your 'volunteers' will have to go through a course, pass it and take regular updates to their training.
Uhhh...just like a police officer??
Anyone willing to do all that, and then work a shift on a regular basis might, just might thing...I can do exactly what Raab is describing...AND GET PAID FOR IT.
Why would anyone (as you suggest) do nearly everything a LEO does, trainingwise and not just do it for a job.
I don't see anyone taking all the training your suggesting to do it once a week or so...it's going to be full time job commitment they way you describe it.
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Why do Volunteer firefighters volunteer? Because they want to help out in the community, already have a decent job, and dont feel like moving to a big city.
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10-12-2017, 04:19 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge
So if it would take the officer in charge of your group of volunteers that^^^^ long to get to your situation, would you attempt to resolve an armed standoff without him/her being present?
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Im talking about people being trained to handle the situation. You would wait for an RCMP officer if only 1 or 2 members responded.
Last edited by raab; 10-12-2017 at 04:32 PM.
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10-12-2017, 04:30 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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It's to bad that we can't lobby the government for sitfer penalties on crime.
B&E's and theft,,, a longer term served depending on the amount being stole.
We could bring more enforcement into the picture, but its not realy addressing the issue of the crime its self.
If someone steals a $5000 vehicle and gets 1 year for every $1000 taken, then the criminals will think twice before they act.
So protest for larger penalties with the option to incress or decrease what is needed year by year.
I'm game for lobby idea.
Don
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10-12-2017, 04:31 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
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The moral of the famous Story, ‘Who will Bell the Cat’ is ‘Easier Said than done”.
There lived some mice in a certain house. There was no cat in the house. So the mice moved about quite freely and ate whatever they got in the kitchen. The master of the house felt very much disturbed. So one day he brought a cat to kill them.
The cat was a good hunter. So the mice were now in great fear. They could not come out of their holes.
At last they held a meeting to decide how they might get rid of the cat. But none could suggest a suitable plan. At last a young mouse said, “Friends, let us tie a bell to the neck of the cat. When the cat moves, the bell will ring. Then we shall run away.”
“It is really a very good plan,” said all the mice in great joy.
But there was an old mouse. He was all along silent. Now he said, “It is no doubt a good plan. But who will bell the cat?”
There was no reply. The joy of the mice disappeared in a moment. They left the place.
Moral: Easier said than done.
Who is going to volunteer to put themselves in harm's way several hours a month.
It won't be the folks on here who ask where to go for elk cause they had no time all year to scout or get permission. Are they gonna have time to get shot at?
Or how about the farmer/rancher trying to beat the weather for his crops or keep his livestock from burning alive in a prairie fire. [BTW anyone bother to eve follow up on what is happening with the Suffield fire?] Doubt they will commit to this plan.
I couldn't tell you one of my neighbours who would have time for this plan.
__________________
I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently.
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
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10-12-2017, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N. E. of High River
Posts: 4,985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_AOL
And so am I.. But I would only pay for a proper force (RCMP or provincial), not these POC wannabe cops that OP is talking about.
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I would not pay a cent for a wannabe. If we need more police, hire them.
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10-12-2017, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8,549
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Three words to police your property
Smith and Wesson!
BW
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10-12-2017, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N. E. of High River
Posts: 4,985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab
Im talking about people being trained to handle the situation. You would wait for an RCMP officer if only 1 or 2 members responded.
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So there is a situation that involves armed crack heads and you and your wannabes would engage without the supervision of a real officer?
You originally seemed to want to work with the police and now you think you can handle it without them?
You are full of yourself. You are the type that I would never want involved in any kind of police activity.
I would prefer paying full priced officers instead of bargain basement wannabes.
If you really think your idea is worthy of consideration, take it to the RCMP and see if they will buy into your scheme and be sure to tell them your thoughts on CC.
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10-12-2017, 05:43 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N. E. of High River
Posts: 4,985
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I am not so worried about some wannabe getting shot but someone getting shot by the wannabe or escalating a situation and make it more dangerous.
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10-12-2017, 06:01 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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So the questions I ask would be alternative ideas at thinking out property crime.
What steps are needed to curb crime with out having conformations with them.
I mentioned this on another thread, it's not the cops to blame for the rise in crime since its been reported that the same 5 to 7% of the folks involved in these property crimes are the revolving door crooks that keep committing these crimes over and over and over.
The police are pooped out since they arrest, then the crooks get off on a mister meaner or limited time if they plea bargain on 1 or 2 charges less the 100 filed against them.
How does a group of people protest for changes to the law for stiffer penalties,,, this my friends seems like the practical idea going forward.
The cost of adding more police is a ok idea, but it comes at a forever expense,,, of course so does the idea of housing property crime criminals.
If the penalties on crimes committed increases,,, maybe it will send a message to the rest of the want-a-bees.
Of course this is just an idea and hopefully more wrong than right.
Don
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10-12-2017, 06:06 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab
Why do Volunteer firefighters volunteer? Because they want to help out in the community, already have a decent job, and dont feel like moving to a big city.
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And as others have mentioned...fires don't shoot back and they don't require all the hours of training that even you admit to.
Big difference in most peoples mind between trying to put out a fire at someone's home's, maybe saving a life in the process and getting shot at trying to save someones ATV from being pinched.
But have at 'er...it's obvious from the comments as well as the poll that most think this a stupid idea....but you obviously are convinced it the smartest idea mankind has come up with.
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10-12-2017, 06:07 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
It's to bad that we can't lobby the government for sitfer penalties on crime.
B&E's and theft,,, a longer term served depending on the amount being stole.
We could bring more enforcement into the picture, but its not realy addressing the issue of the crime its self.
If someone steals a $5000 vehicle and gets 1 year for every $1000 taken, then the criminals will think twice before they act.
So protest for larger penalties with the option to incress or decrease what is needed year by year.
I'm game for lobby idea.
Don
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If you aren't you should be. That's what your elected representatives are for.
__________________
Take a kid fishing, kids that fish don't grow up to be A-holes.
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10-12-2017, 06:59 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzy
If you aren't you should be. That's what your elected representatives are for.
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Dam, I forgot about them. Thanks for the heads up as I'll have a chat with our guy to see what he thinks,,, I'm sure he knows of folks in his riding that have had these kind of crimes happen to them. Maybe they have robbed them selves.
It might take a few folks and a Ryan Jespersen show to get the feel of what Albertans think about "trying" to lobby the government for stiffer penalties.
In our 100 km area there would of been 10 or 20 vehicles taken, and about double that in brake-ins. That's a big difference from what was going on 3 or 4 years ago.
Lately we have heard of car jacking and home invasions while the property are at home,,, 3 happened this month alone.
I was never worried about this crap when I was younger, but times are changing and I'm not comfortable dealing with comfortations.
We think different as we age,,, and who knows what these clowns will do when they get boxed in.
3 months ago a nabour was following 2 trucks down a gravel road when heading home with his 9 year old boy after a hockey game,,, the one truck stopped in the middle of the road as the driver of that vehicle walked back to his truck as he asked if they were ok.
The dude started to freek out yelling and screaming at our nabour and accused him of stocking them,,, the passenger of that truck jumped out with a knife and stabbed both tires on the nabours truck.
It freaked him right out,,, he feared for his kid and him self as they both bolted thankfully.
The cops were called and later that night they found the 2nd truck that was pulling the horse trailer at the far end of the road they were on.
The cops said that both trucks were stolen that night, and they robbed a farm not to far from where our nabour had his altercation.
He's still shook up from this today, he truely feared for his young sons life that night,,, now he's afraid to even stop and help anyone in his travels now.
So sad that these clowns took the trust of humans away from this awesome genitalmen and his kid,,, they are the type of people that would help anyone any where at any time,,, now they fear their every move after that ordeal.
2 more stories I heard not long after that of folks that stopped to help others that ended up getting their vehicles stolen when trying to help them out along the highways.
Even I think twice about stopping my self since I'm programmed to help anyone that looks like they are in trouble,,, I'm not sure if I can deal with a fast acting situation any more,,, even if I could,,, it troubles me thinking of what could happen if this got out of control.
I still have the trust of human kind, but I'm on high alert the whole time till I get a feel of what they say and how they act...
Don at thinking things threw a bit more with folks I meet up with along the roads and highways in my travels
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10-12-2017, 08:26 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,656
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You can hire all the police officers you want but I don't think it is going to solve the crime.
It is our Justice system that needs to get tougher, a slap on a wrist isn't going to stop a criminal from offending again.
Most of these criminals are being caught, get tossed in the klink till mom, dad grandpa grandma bails them out, on promise to appear before the courts, the criminal doesn't show up for court because he/she is busy stealing and robbing.
Now they have a warrant out for their arrest, get caught thrown in the klink, and so it goes round and round , then finally they do show up in court they are being locked up again for 3-4 weeks and off they go again.
I feel bad for all those cops it takes a lot of time and effort and a massive paper trail to bring these idiots to justice so their hands are tied.
We need to get after the government and talk to you MLA to get a thougher justice system.
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10-12-2017, 08:39 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sewerrat
You can hire all the police officers you want but I don't think it is going to solve the crime.
It is our Justice system that needs to get tougher, a slap on a wrist isn't going to stop a criminal from offending again.
Most of these criminals are being caught, get tossed in the klink till mom, dad grandpa grandma bails them out, on promise to appear before the courts, the criminal doesn't show up for court because he/she is busy stealing and robbing.
Now they have a warrant out for their arrest, get caught thrown in the klink, and so it goes round and round , then finally they do show up in court they are being locked up again for 3-4 weeks and off they go again.
I feel bad for all those cops it takes a lot of time and effort and a massive paper trail to bring these idiots to justice so their hands are tied.
We need to get after the government and talk to you MLA to get a thougher justice system.
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It's called the legal system not a justice system.
As long as we have politicians who put their party first and electorate second nothing will change. The criminals have more rights than the victims.
The police do the best they can, and the lawyers and judges just turn the criminals back out to repeat the crimes.
Until we find a politician ready to change the laws and truly put some justice in outd legal system nothing can be done to stop, reduce, or elkmare crime?
BW
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10-12-2017, 09:32 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott N
I keep picture Homer Simpson and his gang of vigilantes walking around with a pillowcase full of doorknobs for some reason. Not that the original idea doesn't have merit, but I can foresee a few problems coming about.
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I'd sign up for that. I already have a pillow case and could round up some door knobs. (of course the wife will be mad when she can't get out of the house anymore)
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10-12-2017, 10:06 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wheatland County
Posts: 5,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by possum
This is the dumbest suggestion I have heard in a long time.
And yes I live in rural sk where it takes the police an hour or more to arrive on a 911 call.
There are No Such Things as an easy call. I guess many of you have forgotten or are maybe to young to remember the Mayerthrope Alberta Tragedy....4 officers initially went to the farm to assist bailiffs in trying to repossess a truck, the end result 4 officers shot to death.
Spiritwood SK , 2 officers called to an assault , a chase took place.....End Result 2 officers shot to death.
Those were 2 pretty straight forward calls.....That ended in 6 trained officers killed in the line of duty..... Not Wannabe Cops....HMMMM
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With all due respect for the fallen officers, your examples illustrate the problem: the so-called trained experts (police) were killed by the expertise of the bad guys. I don't advocate a militia, but there is a degree of 'Meh' deeply embedded in RCMP rural crime investigations that has to change. The OP is just spitballing, preferable to sitting in your cruiser telling citizens to call their insurance.
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10-12-2017, 11:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 839
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A better idea would be to allow people to defend themselves and their property without being prosecuted for it (in the case of actual self defense), the criminals feel way to safe these days maybe the chance of getting shot would help deter them. Most of these losers wouldn't be up for that.
__________________
Fight for the right to be free, never be owned.
-Manowar
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10-13-2017, 07:32 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roper1
I don't advocate a militia, but there is a degree of 'Meh' deeply embedded in RCMP rural crime investigations that has to change.
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And in all honesty.. Wouldn't you have that same feeling if you spent months "chasing" down some theft ring, catch them, only for them to be released a day or two later with a slap on the wrist? It's a cycle.. And it's why there's this feeling of "meh".
Is it right.. No, but when the very legal system is basically creating work for you, it's very frustrating.
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10-13-2017, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,674
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And the brainwashing is almost complete. Only the state can protect its citizens from the criminals the state refuses to punish.
Why is the most vocal opposition to this coming from people with locations stating they are from the city? It’s kind of like raab, not being a farmer, screaming out his support for bill6 because only the state can protect farmers.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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10-13-2017, 08:45 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: A bit North o' Center...
Posts: 11,578
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Think of the money the government could make off the sale of hunting tags for drug dealers...
In some areas, there could even be supplementals!
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10-13-2017, 08:46 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brslk
I'd sign up for that. I already have a pillow case and could round up some door knobs. (of course the wife will be mad when she can't get out of the house anymore)
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Kent Brockman: Mr. Simpson, how do you respond to the charge that petty vandalism such as graffiti is down 80%, while heavy sack beatings are up a shocking 900%.
Homer: Oh people can come up with statistics to prove anything Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that.
lol!
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10-13-2017, 08:53 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
Why is the most vocal opposition to this coming from people with locations stating they are from the city? .
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Why does it matter where we are from?? I consider the current legal system ****, unless rural communities use a different system?
In case you haven't noticed, Crime also isn't just a rural thing. Creating a bandaid solution for rural communities is NOT the answer. FIX THE LEGAL SYSTEM. end of story.. We ALL need to get loud, and show our disappreciation for the current system.
But sure.. Turn this into an US (city) vs them (rural) thing.
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10-13-2017, 09:15 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_AOL
Why does it matter where we are from?? I consider the current legal system ****, unless rural communities use a different system?
In case you haven't noticed, Crime also isn't just a rural thing. Creating a bandaid solution for rural communities is NOT the answer. FIX THE LEGAL SYSTEM. end of story.. We ALL need to get loud, and show our disappreciation for the current system.
But sure.. Turn this into an US (city) vs them (rural) thing.
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I have no problem with fixing the legal system. It won’t happen, but it’s nice to dream, eh?
It’s not really us vs them, more like local government doing what it feels is best for it’s citizens. I have no problem with any local government determining its direction, after all blue rings are beautiful. Why do you have issues with rural people determining our direction?
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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10-13-2017, 09:31 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
I have no problem with fixing the legal system. It won’t happen, but it’s nice to dream, eh?
It’s not really us vs them, more like local government doing what it feels is best for it’s citizens. I have no problem with any local government determining its direction, after all blue rings are beautiful. Why do you have issues with rural people determining our direction?
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I don't have a problem with all people determining our province's direction..
but.. You said it best..
That's pretty much what this is POC topic is..
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