Deer hunting method question - Alberta/Sask

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i've also heard that the big old bucks don't go to the bait.

the bait is for the does that are "bait" for the old bucks

You heard wrong.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Nobody got sucked in here by a troll.
These people actually believe the way they hunt is the only way and everything else is " unethical ".
Cat

Exactly.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You heard wrong.

ok i didn't quite say that correctly/clearly. lets try again. i've heard guys want to bring in does so the bucks goof up when they get dumb for the second "bait". the actual food tends to get hit at night and isn't as useful.

you can watch any tv show and dean partridge is in a food plot or cody robbins is at a bait. those guys pull no shortage of big deer.

they don't hunt over the bait very often though. more often they're in the transition areas before they get to the bait

but hey i don't bait so i could still be wrong guys might have big bucks hitting their baits all day for all i know.

[Leafy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

ok i didn't quite say that correctly/clearly. lets try again. i've heard guys want to bring in does so the bucks goof up when they get dumb for the second "bait". the actual food tends to get hit at night and isn't as useful.

you can watch any tv show and dean partridge is in a food plot or cody robbins is at a bait. those guys pull no shortage of big deer.

they don't hunt over the bait very often though. more often they're in the transition areas before they get to the bait

but hey i don't bait so i could still be wrong guys might have big bucks hitting their baits all day for all i know.

Wrong on many accounts here fish.... Those who bait properly hate the rut as the patterning is all out the window when the love dance begins...

The reason "those" guys, excluding Cody of course are successful is they have honed their skills and know when to sit a stand and when not too...

Baiting is not for everyone, actually more so only the truly dedicated ones can achieve the results they want as this form or style of hunting is not easy. The time, cost and patience is something most will never be successful at.

[fish_e_o]

ok i'll admit i don't bait that's just what one farmer says about another sort of stuff.

so now an explanation is needed. how are these guys looking to put the odds in their favor by baiting? it's an early season thing?

[Leafy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

ok i'll admit i don't bait that's just what one farmer says about another sort of stuff.

so now an explanation is needed. how are these guys looking to put the odds in their favor by baiting? it's an early season thing?

Those who are truly passionate about their whitetail scout and hunt pretty much 365 days... You pattern and learn your animals and then choose those which have matured to the standards you accept as a persona goal. From here you figure out your ideal "set ups" and pursue utilizing the tools at hand and patterns learned after years of scouting.

These sportsmen and women as well have NO problem hanging multiple tags prior to harvesting their intended target bucks... There is no slam dunk here as many would have you believe...

As for how these people are looking to put the odds in their favor, well anyone who hunts / scouts 365 is doing the same with the tools at their disposal...

To prove a point, consider Cody vs. Dean on the animals which come to bait... Both are more than proficient at their sport but only the big fella gets it done time and time again... Cody kills monster mule deer but his skill set of baiting the whitetail deer needs a ton of work...

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Leafy

Those who are truly passionate about their whitetail scout and hunt pretty much 365 days... You pattern and learn your animals and then choose those which have matured to the standards you accept as a persona goal. From here you figure out your ideal "set ups" and pursue utilizing the tools at hand and patterns learned after years of scouting.

i'm not putting down baiting i'm actually all for it, everyone else baits already so they might as well make it legal.

ok so in this scenario i scout 365 days a year but i don't bait. i have a really nice 200" kicking around for the last 6 years and a 180" that looks nice too 4 years worth of pictures. if i wanted to bait where, when, and why?

i want to use baiting to my advantage right? (there would have to be some advantage to it when done properly or people wouldn't do it.)

would the bait go in a safe place like a 40-80 acre patch of bush? used to draw them out? so put it somewhere else?

[Leafy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i'm not putting down baiting i'm actually all for it, everyone else baits already so they might as well make it legal.

ok so in this scenario i scout 365 days a year but i don't bait. i have a really nice 200" kicking around for the last 6 years and a 180" that looks nice too 4 years worth of pictures. if i wanted to bait where, when, and why?

i want to use baiting to my advantage right? (there would have to be some advantage to it when done properly or people wouldn't do it.)

would the bait go in a safe place like a 40-80 acre patch of bush? used to draw them out? so put it somewhere else?

I know what your getting at but it really is not that simple... You have to look at the individual patterns of the animal and adjust accordingly.. Look at the deer named Chuck which is CWTV's logo, old Steve finally killed him after 3 years of baiting him in the same area... What they did was actually move down the funnel about 250 yards and three day in, well Chuck was on the ground...

Each season we learn more and more about an individual deer and have to adjust accordingly to achieve the results we want...

Regarding baiting, well there is more artificial product sold here in Alberta than Saskatchewan... The magic in a bag is brought to you by marketing and media attention....

[fish_e_o]

so if i look at cwtv the plant alfalfa usually in concave type openings and mostly hunt the paths into the field for early season. from what i've seen anyway.

i think late season they do somewhat the same but a different plot plant. barley or something


so would it be a good plan of attack to throw some alfalfa seed in in the alcove he's walking out from in the early season? and maybe some barley on his late season path? or drag him away from his preferred bedding area? and then if he's walking out there why plant at all?


if the ndp make it legal i don't want to be behind the curve or it might be good to know for the picture takers lol

[Leafy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

so if i look at cwtv the plant alfalfa usually in concave type openings and mostly hunt the paths into the field for early season. from what i've seen anyway.

i think late season they do somewhat the same but a different plot plant. barley or something


so would it be a good plan of attack to throw some alfalfa seed in in the alcove he's walking out from in the early season? and maybe some barley on his late season path? or drag him away from his preferred bedding area? and then if he's walking out there why plant at all?


if the ndp make it legal i don't want to be behind the curve or it might be good to know for the picture takers lol

Rye grass is sown into the nature funnels leading to the staging areas where alfalfa plot or like last season peas were used. One plot is about 30 acres and the other a little larger and to the north at over 40 acres... Unfortunately these did not produce as what was originally intended, the actual "Bait" was not hit in daylight as the plots produced too much food to funnel targets to the site where the set ups were. Wouldn't matter with boom sticks, but the archery was tough...

Again, all about learning, pattering, trying different things and learning as we go... Another side to consider is area, what works in the ag does not always work in say a river valley set up... Learn, scout and enjoy no matter is you succeed, at least your outside enjoying our passion.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Leafy

Rye grass is sown into the nature funnels leading to the staging areas where alfalfa plot or like last season peas were used. One plot is about 30 acres and the other a little larger and to the north at over 40 acres... Unfortunately these did not produce as what was originally intended, the actual "Bait" was not hit in daylight as the plots produced too much food to funnel targets to the site where the set ups were. Wouldn't matter with boom sticks, but the archery was tough...

Again, all about learning, pattering, trying different things and learning as we go... Another side to consider is area, what works in the ag does not always work in say a river valley set up... Learn, scout and enjoy no matter is you succeed, at least your outside enjoying our passion.

so now do we go on the assumption that the bucks are going to bed wherever they want based on safety and comfort independent of food. or do we think the plot is going to change where he likes to bed?

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i've also heard that the big old bucks don't go to the bait.

the bait is for the does that are "bait" for the old bucks

Ya I think this is the most likely scenario, does comes to feed, the bucks come to where the does are.

However on some of the Shockey video's you can see bucks eating grain so they might come to feed as well but my money is on the doe in heat theory

[Leafy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

so now do we go on the assumption that the bucks are going to bed wherever they want based on safety and comfort independent of food. or do we think the plot is going to change where he likes to bed?

Really don't think you will change the summer and wintering habits with a supplement food source. The mature animals stick pretty tight to an area unless they are pushed out and then everything you learned is pretty much useless...

[Talking moose]

Bait stands are great during the rut. Does will use it straight through the rut. Where there is does, there will be bucks right behind.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

ok i didn't quite say that correctly/clearly. lets try again. i've heard guys want to bring in does so the bucks goof up when they get dumb for the second "bait". the actual food tends to get hit at night and isn't as useful.

you can watch any tv show and dean partridge is in a food plot or cody robbins is at a bait. those guys pull no shortage of big deer.

they don't hunt over the bait very often though. more often they're in the transition areas before they get to the bait

but hey i don't bait so i could still be wrong guys might have big bucks hitting their baits all day for all i know.

That sounds about right, but it's like big bucks feeding in a field, only instead of watching an entire field, you only have to watch a pile.

They might not feed there all day everyday, but you're definitely stacking the odds in your favor by sitting in front of a pile of grain. It's no guarantee that you'll shoot a booner, but it'll make it easier than if you don't sit over top of a pile of grain. This is why Shockey, Robbins, and most all outfitters and trophy hunters in Saskatchewan do it. The ones that say it doesn't make it easier are full of crapola.

[Leafy]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

That sounds about right, but it's like big bucks feeding in a field, only instead of watching an entire field, you only have to watch a pile.

They might not feed there all day everyday, but you're definitely stacking the odds in your favor by sitting in front of a pile of grain. It's no guarantee that you'll shoot a booner, but it'll make it easier than if you don't sit over top of a pile of grain. This is why Shockey, Robbins, and most all outfitters and trophy hunters in Saskatchewan do it. The ones that say it doesn't make it easier are full of crapola.

Nah Kurt.... I will refer you to Cody, how many booner whitetail has that crew killed ? Now how many booner mule deer ?

Now explain why there is about a 10:1 difference when whitetail come to bait and mule deer do not ?

Baiting is tough method and most royally screw it up to be honest...

[norwestalta]

In my experience I haven't seen much deer activity around grain piles until winter when food is in short supply. I imagine that a deer stomach isn't much different than a cows and they have a hard time digesting grain unless its been run through a mill. I could be wrong. Some of the best deer attractant I've seen is a fresh ripped up field in the fall. Looks like there's nothing there but dirt but the must eat the alfalfa roots.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Leafy

Nah Kurt.... I will refer you to Cody, how many booner whitetail has that crew killed ? Now how many booner mule deer ?

Now explain why there is about a 10:1 difference when whitetail come to bait and mule deer do not ?

Baiting is tough method and most royally screw it up to be honest...

I don't know how many Cody, Shockey, or any outfitters have killed, but what I do know is that there used to be guides that guided for the same outfit I do and they were killing big bucks every year, and every year, or second year they would get one or two that would gross over book. That is until they got busted for baiting. In 15yrs of guiding I've only had one client take a buck that netted over 170, and I work hard as a guide to try and get my clients on big bucks. The other two guys made it look easy, with their clients seeing and shooting big bucks on what I would consider a regular basis.

As far as mulies go, I'm not much of a mule hunter, but I know they live a more nomadic life, not as easy to pattern as the whities, I can see it being difficult to get a mule to come into bait. That probably explains why most of Cody's mule hunts are a spot and stalk.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I found the following on the net. I think it applies to what we are discussing here. Battle Rat you may want to read it twice.




Hunting Ethics and the Ethical Hunter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What type of hunter are you?

The kind you never want to meet.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I found the following on the net. I think it applies to what we are discussing here. Battle Rat you may want to read it twice.




Hunting Ethics and the Ethical Hunter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What type of hunter are you?

The kind you never want to meet.

[waterhawk]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

The kind you never want to meet.

Battle Rat: I agree it is probably best we never meet. I expect we would quarrel. You appear to have no ethical compass other than whether the thing is legal or not. Perhaps that is best for you because it is strait forward and requires little thought.

[purgatory.sv]

The ethical answer is what you want and your satisfaction.

I do troll.

Are you?

[xterratitan]

Perhaps its best to just leave it alone.

[norwestalta]

I really don't know why there is any question of ethics when one hunts/fishes legally. There is many different methods as there is many different reasons and why should I or anyone else on here judge one another. Seems like a bunch of whiny sucky boys that squat to pee.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Battle Rat: I agree it is probably best we never meet. I expect we would quarrel. You appear to have no ethical compass other than whether the thing is legal or not. Perhaps that is best for you because it is strait forward and requires little thought.

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

The ethical answer is what you want and your satisfaction.

I do troll.

Are you?

I wish to apologise.

Ethics is a personal decision.

If you compile with the perceived guide you are good.

If you question what you perceive ask.

[waterhawk]

I am off today for a three day fishing trip. I thought I would get a last post in before I go. It seems that almost everyone that has been posting takes the position that each individual hunter has to decide what he is prepared to do and not do and other hunters have no right to criticize his decision as long as what he is doing is legal. This is not my belief. I an now 62 years old and have hunted all my life. I was taught to hunt by my grandfather and father. They had a certain code by which they hunted by and had no problem speaking up when they saw something in the field that they thought wrong. My grandfather was with the Canadian army in France during WW I. He was at Vimy Ridge. He as a very stern man. He died in the early 70"s and I am still scared of him. When I was 13 I went with him on a mule deer hunt in the south Saskatchewan sand hills. Hunting was done by walking the hills. At one point we came on a guy that was taking pot shots at a big buck at a long distance. My grandfather in no uncertain terms pointed out that this was flat out wrong. It would have been interesting if it was one of you guys and the old man was told to shove it because the shots were legal.

I am out of this now. I want to apologize for my attempts at humor in my early posts. I did not realize how serious some members take this issue. In the future I will still post on ethical issues but I will be more respectful.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I am off today for a three day fishing trip. I thought I would get a last post in before I go. It seems that almost everyone that has been posting takes the position that each individual hunter has to decide what he is prepared to do and not do and other hunters have no right to criticize his decision as long as what he is doing is legal. This is not my belief. I an now 62 years old and have hunted all my life. I was taught to hunt by my grandfather and father. They had a certain code by which they hunted by and had no problem speaking up when they saw something in the field that they thought wrong. My grandfather was with the Canadian army in France during WW I. He was at Vimy Ridge. He as a very stern man. He died in the early 70"s and I am still scared of him. When I was 13 I went with him on a mule deer hunt in the south Saskatchewan sand hills. Hunting was done by walking the hills. At one point we came on a guy that was taking pot shots at a big buck at a long distance. My grandfather in no uncertain terms pointed out that this was flat out wrong. It would have been interesting if it was one of you guys and the old man was told to shove it because the shots were legal.

I am out of this now. I want to apologize for my attempts at humor in my early posts. I did not realize how serious some members take this issue. In the future I will still post on ethical issues but I will be more respectful.

Long distance pot shots, although legal,can be perceived of poor ethics because the chance of wounding and maiming an animal sky rockets. But this thread is about baiting... Baiting cuts out some variables. (Knowing the exact distance being a big one.... Probably a close shot) and actually reduces the chance of poor shot placement. Long distance pot shots and baiting....apples to oranges.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I am off today for a three day fishing trip. I thought I would get a last post in before I go. It seems that almost everyone that has been posting takes the position that each individual hunter has to decide what he is prepared to do and not do and other hunters have no right to criticize his decision as long as what he is doing is legal. This is not my belief. I an now 62 years old and have hunted all my life. I was taught to hunt by my grandfather and father. They had a certain code by which they hunted by and had no problem speaking up when they saw something in the field that they thought wrong. My grandfather was with the Canadian army in France during WW I. He was at Vimy Ridge. He as a very stern man. He died in the early 70"s and I am still scared of him. When I was 13 I went with him on a mule deer hunt in the south Saskatchewan sand hills. Hunting was done by walking the hills. At one point we came on a guy that was taking pot shots at a big buck at a long distance. My grandfather in no uncertain terms pointed out that this was flat out wrong. It would have been interesting if it was one of you guys and the old man was told to shove it because the shots were legal.

I am out of this now. I want to apologize for my attempts at humor in my early posts. I did not realize how serious some members take this issue. In the future I will still post on ethical issues but I will be more respectful.

Your grandfather is one to be proud of but should have no bearing on ethics. Or does it? I have prior military experience but that does not mean that my ethics are the same as yours.
The main goal of all of us here is to enjoy the hunt in our own way. Wether it's driving around all day in a truck or sitting on a food plot who cares. To each their own is my thoughts. My belief is take what you use and use what you take. Which I think many of us are of the same thought pattern no matter how it is done as long as it's within the regulations boundaries.

[waterhawk]

Talking Moose: They are clearly different but they still both deal with ethical hunting. I firmly believe in fair chase hunting. To me that means hunting the animal in the environment that you find it. I know that some hunters are prepared to do almost anything to increase their odds of taking an animal. If it is legal that is clearly their choice to make. I won't, however, give up the right to criticize the choices if I feel they are unsportsmanlike.

I have in the past threads taken the side of the right of Status Indians to hunt. Those threads basically worked out like this one where everybody jumped on me. The next time the issue of the illusive reefer van full of moose comes up, I will be able to point out that no one has the right to criticize because it is legal

[58thecat]

Geez this thread is like making heads and tales out of the bible, all over the place, strong beliefs, interpretation etc no wonder people run around stunned but we all gather and discuss