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12-05-2013, 07:48 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
hay,,,, wait... I thought te general consensus here was that the lazy, overpaid, bloated civil service needed a good kick.
Wildrose dillema: What to do, what to do... I hate Redford but I hate civil servants too... LOL
This is a tame version of what some US states put into place (including breaking contracts) and that was praised to high heaven by many here. Remember?
Personally, I'm good with bigger fines for people who willfully break the law and impose hardship on the tax-paying public.
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I was wondering the same thing myself... 
And... I'm not OK with government making people their pawns or changing laws to further their agenda at the expense of the people that THEY are elected to serve.
Organized labour is the only thing between the average worker and virtual slavery anymore.
This move is not only a blow to provincial employees...its a blow to every byb the hour worker in the provionce whether they like unions or not.
It is the precedent that will embolden and empower every employer to put the screws to their workforce.
The Regressive Conservatives need to go.
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12-05-2013, 07:52 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,020
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Even if there is a "no strike" provision, the Public Sector and Unions have a fool proof solution to their problem in negotiating with the Province: QUIT!
The problem is, do public sector employees want to join the boom - bust cycle that is Alberta's private sector?
In 2005 - 2006, the Province got its nose rubbed in it at Fort McMurray. Clerks at the Courthouse were lured away as soon as they were hired by Headhunters, recruiting for Oil Companies who were staffing up the Administration offices. Every sector of Government employees were targeted as there was a greener pasture in Fort McMurray in the Private Sector. Trouble was, 2009 came.
My pension is my own creation, and is not back stopped or indexed or topped up. I reap the rewards, I take the consequences that are usually beyond my control.
If the Public Sector does not like what is being done, and I don't suggest it is proper, then they should exercise their remaining right. That is the leverage that the Employees have, and every employer knows it. Otherwise, it obviously can't be that bad a situation as the last right is not being exercised by the Public Sector employees.
Drewski
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12-05-2013, 07:53 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greylynx
It is common knowledge that public sector employees make more money and enjoy benefits significantly greater than private sector employees.
Add to the mix that one in four employees in Canada work for the public sector. That means the other underpaid three in four employees in the private sector have to pay for someone that makes more than them.
Add powerful public labour unions and the funding of huge pension funds and a government starts getting fiscally into trouble.
If you do not wnat to be like a PIGS as seen in Europe something has to be done.
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Wrong...the benefits are better but the pay for similar responsabilities is significantly less.
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12-05-2013, 07:57 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greylynx
Unfortunately with the large public unions and increasing taxes there will be no middle class.
What is wrong with Mexicans if they work hard and pay taxes?
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You are kidding right?
Unions created the middle class buddy... and the other side of that argument has been working to destroy that accomplishment ever since.
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12-05-2013, 08:00 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
Gee, and I've driven cars on roads for 40 years, so I must know alot about highway maintenance.  |
I have a canoe... I have paddled on oceans, lakes and rivers....therefore I am a marine biologist.
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12-05-2013, 08:01 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
I have a canoe... I have paddled on oceans, lakes and rivers....therefore I am a marine biologist.
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I stayed in a holiday inn express before.
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12-05-2013, 08:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
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Out of all the posts this is my fav! While I think you're crazier then a gorilla with A Popsicle up its azz, I'm starting to grasp your humour!
On a side note I knew there was trouble when ol horse face Redford attended a bilderberg get together fresh out the election gate. She knew she won't be reigning for long, just long enough thou, just long enough!
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12-05-2013, 08:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
You are kidding right?
Unions created the middle class buddy... and the other side of that argument has been working to destroy that accomplishment ever since.
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Not any more Bucko. This is not post WW2.
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12-05-2013, 08:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
I have a canoe... I have paddled on oceans, lakes and rivers....therefore I am a marine biologist.
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How do the lakes and rivers come into play to be a "marine biologist"?
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12-05-2013, 08:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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What was the name of that company the unions started??
Oh yeah....Unicorns Incorporated.
unions have never created anything.
Capitalism created the middle class.
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12-05-2013, 08:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
What was the name of that company the unions started??
Oh yeah....Unicorns Incorporated.
unions have never created anything.
Capitalism created the middle class.
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capitalism created wealth for the rich, The unions created the middle class it's a proven fact, if you don't know that you don't know anything.
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12-05-2013, 08:51 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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First they came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
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12-05-2013, 08:53 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
You are kidding right?
Unions created the middle class buddy... and the other side of that argument has been working to destroy that accomplishment ever since.
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Pesky,
Wow... Just wow.
Back to the books buddy if you missed the part about how a large public sector, earning above average wages - drives inflation.
The kind of inflation that hurts private sector middle class people that are not as lucky to have such generous employment contacts with cost of living increases built into them.
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12-05-2013, 08:57 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneeze
Pesky,
Wow... Just wow.
Back to the books buddy if you missed the part about how a large public sector, earning above average wages - drives inflation.
The kind of inflation that hurts private sector middle class people that are not as lucky to have such generous employment contacts with cost of living increases built into them.
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Where are these facts to back this up ?
I make less money to work in the public and I don't know anybody I work with that's rich.
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12-05-2013, 09:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,881
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Welcome to the MACHINE ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1
Where are these facts to back this up ?
I make less money to work in the public and I don't know anybody I work with that's rich.
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just a treadmill you're on Buddy - TREADMILL.
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12-05-2013, 09:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1
capitalism created wealth for the rich, The unions created the middle class it's a proven fact, if you don't know that you don't know anything.
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I won't be so presumptive to assume that you don't know anything based on your failure to come to terms with the actual facts of the matter. Perhaps you simply have a different definition of "proven fact" than most people (and dictionaries).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...hat-you-think/
http://suite101.com/a/the-wisdom-of-henry-ford-a72661
Mr. Ford’s business decisions are widely credited with the creation of the American middle class
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/henry-fo...0-years-later/
and the mass-produced Model T helped create the American middle class.
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12-05-2013, 09:04 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lacombe
Posts: 2,464
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Where are these facts to back this up ?
I make less money to work in the public and I don't know anybody I work with that's rich.
X2 start going through some of the contracts to find wages and benifits,some might be suprised
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12-05-2013, 09:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBD
just a treadmill you're on Buddy - TREADMILL.
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Are you high or something ?
You guys keep saying the people in the public sector make so much more but you know what I haven't seen ? any proof what so ever.
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12-05-2013, 09:06 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rottie
Where are these facts to back this up ?
I make less money to work in the public and I don't know anybody I work with that's rich.
X2 start going through some of the contracts to find wages and benifits,some might be suprised
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Most are online to boot.
might take 5 minutes of work to figure some stuff out.
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12-05-2013, 09:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
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no unions in car manufacturing ?
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12-05-2013, 09:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1
no unions in car manufacturing ?
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Not then.
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12-05-2013, 09:11 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
Not then.
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The International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America, better known as the United Automobile Workers (UAW), is an American labor union that represents workers in the United States and Puerto Rico, and in the country of Canada. Founded as part of the left-wing Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) in the 1930s, the UAW grew rapidly from 1936 to the 1950s. Under the leadership of Walter Reuther (president 1946-70) it played a major role in the liberal wing of the Democratic party, including the civil rights and anti-Communist movements. The UAW was especially known for gaining high wages and pensions for the auto workers, but it was unable to unionize auto plants built by foreign-based car-makers in the South after the 1970s, and went into a steady decline in membership.
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12-05-2013, 09:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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I guess old henry ford just gave high wages and benefits and pensions on his own free will.
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12-05-2013, 09:20 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rottie
Where are these facts to back this up ?
I make less money to work in the public and I don't know anybody I work with that's rich.
X2 start going through some of the contracts to find wages and benifits,some might be suprised
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http://local37.teachers.ab.ca/SiteCo...ary%20Grid.pdf
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...bor93j-eng.htm
Zing.
Ten year teacher makes more than the average of Albertans in all industry categories except for 1.
Yup took me about 5 minutes.
And it didn't include benefits - or factoring in the 10 month work year.
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12-05-2013, 09:22 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneeze
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So well educated people with ten years of experience should be paid less is what you are saying ?
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12-05-2013, 09:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1
I guess old henry ford just gave high wages and benefits and pensions on his own free will.
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Nope. Wrong again.
The reason for the pay rise was not as some of our contemporaries seem to think it was. It was nothing at all to do with creating a workforce that could afford to buy the products. It was to cut the turnover and training time of the labour force: for, yes, in certain circumstances, raising wages can reduce total labour costs.
Purely a business decision. Ford didn't sign with the UAW until 1941.
The beauty of capitalism.
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12-05-2013, 09:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
Nope. Wrong again.
The reason for the pay rise was not as some of our contemporaries seem to think it was. It was nothing at all to do with creating a workforce that could afford to buy the products. It was to cut the turnover and training time of the labour force: for, yes, in certain circumstances, raising wages can reduce total labour costs.
Purely a business decision. Ford didn't sign with the UAW until 1941.
The beauty of capitalism.
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So he was with the union after ww2 ?
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12-05-2013, 09:29 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,378
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12-05-2013, 09:34 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1
So he was with the union after ww2 ?
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Ford didn't sign with the UAW until 1941.
On 15 August 1945 Japan surrendered, with the surrender documents finally signed aboard the deck of the American battleship USS Missouri on 2 September 1945, ending the war
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12-05-2013, 09:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1
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what-have-unions-done-for-us?
The 8-hour work day
“One of the first businesses to implement this was the Ford Motor Company, in 1914, which not only cut the standard work day to eight hours, but also doubled their worker’s pay in the process. To the shock of many industries, this resulted in Ford’s productivity off of these same workers, but with fewer hours, actually increasing significantly and Ford’s profit margins doubled within two years. This encouraged other companies to adopt the shorter, eight hour work day as a standard for their employees.”
I hope you're not a history teacher. And I REALLY hope you don't rely on union websites for your book learning. 
Why don't you go do some reading or something before you post anymore. I gotta go shave my back and take this popsicle outta my butt.
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