Let's catch some cheaters!

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Not legal. When you come to AB and visit a registry they will take your out of province from you and destroy it. This must be done within 30 days of arriving in AB.

Thanks, was curious if it would show in the system.?

[lake side]

Originally Posted by lakefisher

Yes well I know more than a couple fellows that do this for Sask / Alberta and for Alberta / BC. I say power to them,, wish I could join in.

You don't say.....stay classy.

L.S.

[bpk1982]

It seems that more then a few here have first hand knowledge of these "cheaters". Who has called in to report these guys hunting with resident tags?

[Talking moose]

How about fishing? Should they be able to keep a fish? Same thing. I enjoy going to b.c and bringing a salmon home.

[hunterfisher]

Originally Posted by lake side

=hunterfisher;2566448]I canning imagine the red faced heavy breathing and heart beating individuals who are so workws up over this. Again, what about the people who hunt all over the country for their shows? I've never been up north Alberta and if its really anything like what I hear then it will not see me either.

Some people are pretty darn disgusted like its the bane of their existence. I agree it downs t seem fare but stop the online bashing on this hunting forum and bring it to where people actually might get something done. If not then your looking to B. Itch and that's it with a few side kicks.

Spoken like a true transplant....nice use of the English language.

Really, we should not be discussing hunting issues on an outdoor forum. Put down the bottle there 'by.

L.S.[/QUOTE]

Well Pardon me and my texting abilities. This little iphone wants to autocorrect a lot of stuff and sometimes, meh. You are correct about the fact it is a hunting forum and this is were you talk about it in its entirety but if someone has an issue then bring it where it counts.

Is there a better reason why you don't think that its a sober reply? Wait by all means keep it to yourself. Thank you.

Now try to get some rest tonight and get those panties out of a knot.

Yours truly
Alberta resident
AB Health care- 123 456789
HF

By the way- my kids have been born and raised here; so do they need to apply as well or are they considered eligible? Might have some east coast strain in the bloodline.

I've never posted a derogatory comment to anyone on here yet I see a lot of east coast bashing. It's just annoying as I would rather not be painted as what I hear about. Unfortunately it seems a name and stigma has been made before I have become a resident some years ago but I can guarantee that all the people I personally know who reside here have grat jobs and actually help the economy.

If Said people who travel back and forth can somehow hunt both areas it appears the system is failing just like the welfare system which is totally separate I know. On the other hand why is it so controversial if the animal population has increased. Is it the areas are heavily hunted or is there lack of respect. That's what I don't get.

There's a problem back east where there's a false economy. People buy expensive homes with their western money and the housing industry sees that as provincial income hike and pricing Goes up. This makes it hard for the actual full time residents.

Anyways as I always say I personally appreciate the help and I give it back to a lot when I can. Quite a few time I've gladly helped people with duck hunts and some big game who grew up here. All the best and seriously get some sleep.

HF

[HunterDave]

Interesting thread and obviously it's peaked the interest of the AO community. I haven't read the whole thread but I thought that I'd throw this out there.

A person has to fill out a tax return stating their place of residence on the last day of the year in order to determine what provincial sales tax they pay. If they declare Alberta then, IMO, there shouldn't be an issue with them hunting here......no cheating. But if they declare a different province then they are cheaters.....Correct?

Why not suggest, by resolution through the AFGA, that ESRD cross reference hunting licenses through Alberta Revenue (or whatever it might be called) to find out what people's declared province of residency is on their tax return? If they declare a province other than Alberta then they don't have the right to hunt here.

To me, this sounds too simple, other than getting ESRD and Alberta Revenue to work together on this so it probably is not feasible.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by drake

Let’s catch some cheaters!

First Idea:

Goal: To catch people declaring resident status in more than one province

Step 1: export to MS excel, the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel,the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in other provinces

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who is declaring dual residency.

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation

Second Idea:
Goal: To catch ineligible license holders and draw applicants

Step 1: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals who have successfully completed Hunters Ed in Alberta or elsewhere or held a hunting license in another jurisdiction

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who doesn’t fit the “eligible to hunt” definition

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation


I’m no Alfred Einstein but If I was given the right data I could complete this analysis for the government in under 10 minutes.

Anyone else have any ideas on how to catch the cheaters? Are you or members of your family committing fraud?

[QUOTE=HunterDave;2566560]Interesting thread and obviously it's peaked the interest of the AO community. I haven't read the whole thread but I thought that I'd throw this out there.

A person has to fill out a tax return stating their place of residence on the last day of the year in order to determine what provincial sales tax they pay. If they declare Alberta then, IMO, there shouldn't be an issue with them hunting here......no cheating. But if they declare a different province then they are cheaters.....Correct?

Why not suggest, by resolution through the AFGA, that ESRD cross reference hunting licenses through Alberta Revenue (or whatever it might be called) to find out what people's declared province of residency is on their tax return? If they declare a province other than Alberta then they don't have the right to hunt here.

To me, this sounds too simple, other than getting ESRD and Alberta Revenue to work together on this so it probably is not feasible. [/QUOTE]

Best answer.

[Stinky Buffalo]

I don't think I have an issue with out-of-province hunters per se, the issue would really be that SRD is not getting the additional fees that would be generated if those out-of-province hunters paid the premium for non-resident licenses.

But really, none of this will matter if JT gets into power. Because:

1.) Our guns will be taken away
2.) Ft. Mac. will become a ghost town (a victim of the dirty oil campaign) and everyone will have to move back to wherever they came from.

[drake]

Originally Posted by bpk1982

It seems that more then a few here have first hand knowledge of these "cheaters". Who has called in to report these guys hunting with resident tags?

I have...every single one.

[drake]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Interesting thread and obviously it's peaked the interest of the AO community. I haven't read the whole thread but I thought that I'd throw this out there.

A person has to fill out a tax return stating their place of residence on the last day of the year in order to determine what provincial sales tax they pay. If they declare Alberta then, IMO, there shouldn't be an issue with them hunting here......no cheating. But if they declare a different province then they are cheaters.....Correct?

Why not suggest, by resolution through the AFGA, that ESRD cross reference hunting licenses through Alberta Revenue (or whatever it might be called) to find out what people's declared province of residency is on their tax return? If they declare a province other than Alberta then they don't have the right to hunt here.

To me, this sounds too simple, other than getting ESRD and Alberta Revenue to work together on this so it probably is not feasible.

brilliant.....

[fargineyesore]

I'm for it completely. Hunt where your primary residence is, if it is not here, hunt at home. My firm is working on a large project in BC and we've been told that the BC government doesn't want workers from Alberta there to do the job. Seems fine for other provinces to put up barriers against Albertans, but when we talk of doing the same thing here, all of a sudden we're bad guys. The double standard by non-Albertans is disturbing and a bit comical.

[lake side]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

I don't think I have an issue with out-of-province hunters per se, the issue would really be that SRD is not getting the additional fees that would be to generated if those out-of-province hunters paid the premium for non-resident licenses.

I too am not against people coming here to work or hunt. The issue is term the "residency" and the double dipping that takes place.with a growing place like Alberta there are bound to be problems but the come and do what you like attitude must change. The hunting issue is not an isolated one...there are other problems as well.

L.S.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by drake

brilliant.....

Now that I've re-read my post, it would be even simpler than seeing what province they declared as their place of residency.

If you fill out an Alberta tax return you're good to go. If you don't then you aren't (assuming of course that you have a reported income).

It probably needs some ironing out but if you feel strongly about the issue, why not present it as a resolution to the AFGA. If they vote for it, it may be presented to ESRD. Good luck.

[lake side]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Now that I've re-read my post, it would be even simpler than seeing what province they declared as their place of residency.

If you fill out an Alberta tax return you're good to go. If you don't then you aren't (assuming of course that you have a reported income).

It probably needs some ironing out but if you feel strongly about the issue, why not present it as a resolution to the AFGA. If they vote for it, it may be presented to ESRD. Good luck.

I will once again be sending an email off to the new minister. I have sent so many of these it's just a simple copy/paste and a new name. The standard response I get is "we are looking into it". With the constant changes in the SRD chair I highly doubt they even know when hunting season starts but I will send one anyway.

[Dacotensis]

Double post

[Dacotensis]

Hunterfisher.
How many profiles are you running on AO?
You are defending Lakerfisher in your quote.

Try to keep your profiles straight here on AO.

When I look at you as Lakerfisher, it appears with over 2 posts a day since you joined less than a month ago, that it is you with nothing better to do, yet chastise lake side and drake.
And you run multiple profiles to stir up *****.
Do you like the smell of it? You're rolling all over in the stench.
You're a troll. Simply put.
You say you are 48 but act like a 16 year old.

Get a woman to occupy your time if you are bored.
If you can find one to believe your lies.

As for the thread.

If maintenance enforcement can track a guy down while he's 2000km away, the province can figure out this little double dipping fiasco.
I like the idea, but it's small beans for the province who is looking for a work force.

I took a picture of a car with an Ontario plate in front of my house in May.
It was back last week.
So much for the registries regulation.[/QUOTE]

[J D]

Alberta needs to start with adjusting what it takes to qualify to hunt as a resident first and for most. There is a reason most prov's ask that your primary residence be in the that prov for a set amount of time before you can hunt as a resident.

Nothing wrong with non residents hunting other provs but it needs to be done through the correct licensing and regs.

Fix the issue of requirements to become a resident hunter first and then focus on those who cheat the system. Right now it is too easy to cheat the system making it expensive and difficult to catch those who do

This is coming from someone who is working on become a resident of Alberta again

[lake side]

Originally Posted by J D

Alberta needs to start with adjusting what it takes to qualify to hunt as a resident first and for most. There is a reason most prov's ask that your primary residence be in the that prov for a set amount of time before you can hunt as a resident.

Nothing wrong with non residents hunting other provs but it needs to be done through the correct licensing and regs.

Fix the issue of requirements to become a resident hunter first and then focus on those who cheat the system. Right now it is too easy to cheat the system making it expensive and difficult to catch those who do

This is coming from someone who is working on become a resident of Alberta again

You sir hit the nail right on the head! Welcome back.

L.S.

[hunterfisher]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

Hunterfisher.
How many profiles are you running on AO?
You are defending Lakerfisher in your quote.

Try to keep your profiles straight here on AO.

When I look at you as Lakerfisher, it appears with over 2 posts a day since you joined less than a month ago, that it is you with nothing better to do, yet chastise lake side and drake.
And you run multiple profiles to stir up *****.
Do you like the smell of it? You're rolling all over in the stench.
You're a troll. Simply put.
You say you are 48 but act like a 16 year old.

Get a woman to occupy your time if you are bored.
If you can find one to believe your lies.

As for the thread.

If maintenance enforcement can track a guy down while he's 2000km away, the province can figure out this little double dipping fiasco.
I like the idea, but it's small beans for the province who is looking for a work force.

I took a picture of a car with an Ontario plate in front of my house in May.
It was back last week.
So much for the registries regulation.

[/QUOTE]


Are you for real? Do you seriously think I have multiple accounts and are giving these guys a hard time? Take to the mods and see if I have multie accounts and don't jump down my throat buddy. Maybe someone agrees with what I say. Could be right!

I never stir the pot. I just say what is right to me. I have no clue who laker fisher is nor do I care.

Your insulting me with no proof thanks. And I have nothing against Drake or anyone else but when Out of province people are tatted with the same brush its offensive to me. I pay my taxes and reside here. I do everything legally and am always helpful when I can. But thanks for your input. Double post my god that's pathetic.

[drake]

Originally Posted by J D

Alberta needs to start with adjusting what it takes to qualify to hunt as a resident first and for most. There is a reason most prov's ask that your primary residence be in the that prov for a set amount of time before you can hunt as a resident.

Nothing wrong with non residents hunting other provs but it needs to be done through the correct licensing and regs.

Fix the issue of requirements to become a resident hunter first and then focus on those who cheat the system. Right now it is too easy to cheat the system making it expensive and difficult to catch those who do

This is coming from someone who is working on become a resident of Alberta again

my point is that it is not hard and not expensive......its just takes effort on the part of the SRD ministry and cooperation from another branch of government.

[lake side]

Hey Hunterfisher,

No one is lumping all out of province people abusers (please read previous posts). What we ARE discussing is the abuse by some. Unless you are claiming residency in 2 places relax.

L.S.

[phatso]

Non-residence have to pay a higher fee because they don't pay taxes in Alberta or contribute to it. They come in, take a animal and leave. Same reason international students have to pay higher tuition.. they don't pay taxes here to get the subsidies.

If you have a Alberta drivers license or filed a tax return and listed AB as primary residence you have contributed enough to the province to get your reduced rate tag. As people keep on breeding we have to share the limited space with more humans..

[J D]

Originally Posted by drake

my point is that it is not hard and not expensive......its just takes effort on the part of the SRD ministry and cooperation from another branch of government.

Maybe but it is still too easy to cheat right now. No problem with catch those that cheat but addressing the problem that makes it so easy should be first.

Remember when you are asking for man power from govt it is like pulling teeth. Privacy issues also come into play and all it takes is this to be used as an excuse for your plan to be shot down.

Respect you want something done and know there is a problem but can already see the dead end proposing this will meet. Unfortunately if you want any form of govt to help fix a problem you need to start with what involves the least amount of effort and $ from their part first.

I am not completely against your idea just been through enough govt BS to see what fights you can win. Due to the fact most places outside of Alberta have residency requirement it is easy to get this put into place first because there are examples they can look at.

Pick the fight but be smart and pick a fight you can easily win first. If it does not help fix the residency problem then push for more.

You have my complete support on going after this issue but be wise about it

[Trooper23]

I don't know how these "cheaters" can do this with the new Albertarealm system?

Ex. I lived, hunted and paid taxes in Alberta for over 50 years until March of this year, then retired to just across the border in BC. With the new system when I re-signed in, I automatically had to put my new BC drivers license number in and, Voila, I am a Non-Resident!

As such, I found and paid for a Hunter Host, paid the non-resident fees for hunting ($200+), am intelligible of draws now (was a P6 for moose and P6 for elk) and can only hunt with my hunter host for the one non- resident tag I could get!

And to boot, I am ineligible to hunt in my now "Home Province, BC" until next year and, after I take their CORE training.

Gotta love Beurocracy!

[drake]

Originally Posted by J D

Maybe but it is still too easy to cheat right now. No problem with catch those that cheat but addressing the problem that makes it so easy should be first.

Remember when you are asking for man power from govt it is like pulling teeth. Privacy issues also come into play and all it takes is this to be used as an excuse for your plan to be shot down.

Respect you want something done and know there is a problem but can already see the dead end proposing this will meet. Unfortunately if you want any form of govt to help fix a problem you need to start with what involves the least amount of effort and $ from their part first.

I am not completely against your idea just been through enough govt BS to see what fights you can win. Due to the fact most places outside of Alberta have residency requirement it is easy to get this put into place first because there are examples they can look at.

Pick the fight but be smart and pick a fight you can easily win first. If it does not help fix the residency problem then push for more.

You have my complete support on going after this issue but be wise about it

I agree. I have posted numerous comments in he past encouraging folks to lobby for mandatory minimum wait times to join the "resident" pool. My suggestions have been met with harsh criticism from many members. I'm glad to see that people's tunes are changing around here. I'm no Nostradamus, and I don't have a crystal ball but i will predict that resident hunting opportunities as we know it are going to be vastly reduced in the next 10 years. We need to curb the problem right now and create some type of barrier to eliminate cheating, and reduce the pool of hunters vying for OUR limited resource. A good start would be filing your tax return in alberta (giving back instead of only taking), and increasing the time it takes to get resident status to curb the number of transients pillaging our resource.

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Here is a question....a guy lives in Alberta and works for 7-8 months and then moves back East for 4-5 months and repeats the process each year....where is he a resident of? Where is/should he be eligible to hunt?



Exactly!!

LC

To what province is this individual paying his income tax? I. Think that would be the determining factor.

[Dan Boone]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

To what province is this individual paying his income tax? I. Think that would be the determining factor.

Way too many easterners claim taxes here so they can get more loot back in the spring! Wouldnt work!

How do i know this? Cause 90% of my friends that fly out here to work does it!

I agree 100% that we need changes, way too many double dippers from my home province alone.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

Way too many easterners claim taxes here so they can get more loot back in the spring! Wouldnt work!

How do i know this? Cause 90% of my friends that fly out here to work does it!

I agree 100% that we need changes, way too many double dippers from my home province alone.

If they are paying taxes here then I don't see any issue. If they are double dipping hunting wise then it's their home province that they are cheating, not Alberta. That's the way that I see it anyway.

[super7mag]

After sorting out the residency issues, maybe ESRD can look into waterfowl outfitters paying off landowners for exclusive access, I've heard it's gone as far as subsidizing crop inputs to insure certain crops are being planted.
Next to impossible to prove but is happening in many areas of the province.

[Red Bullets]

I'm wonder if the "Alberta" Outdoorsmen forum is checking for Alberta residency?

The suggestion of cross referencing with the Alberta taxation dept. is the most logical. I bet a third of the 'resident' hunters would be not so resident.