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11-05-2016, 11:23 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK2750
Here is another issue. Farmers have claimed more public land by farming the ditches and laying claim fence to fence wherever they choose to drive posts. There is no such thing as land locked crown land.
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Well your wrong about that . Due to a lake and a river its land locked .
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11-05-2016, 11:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: SE Alberta
Posts: 620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck yote
Well your wrong about that . Due to a lake and a river its land locked .
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You seem like a real Hero, well post up the location lets let some of us check out this locked off land.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MK2750
The farmers said they cut the fence to get a quad or truck in to retrieve game or just to drive a cut line that doesn't have a gate. One guy said they even took the wire as they must have used it to drag a moose out.
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I watched a cow break through a fence scratching this summer out by RHR, I phoned EID and reported it. I was out on the lake but it looked like it snapped all 3 when it broke and fell and rolled over.
Not saying they are not having issues but had someone told me cows snap fences like that I would have laughed at them.
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11-05-2016, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
Why would someone even need to cut a fence? I have heard of this too but never understood why.of course you shouldn't but the reason as to why confuses me .....often I wonder if moose or elk snap fences and humans take the brunt of it.....I have even heard lease holders complain that mushroom pickers cut their fences.
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Pretty easy to tell the difference between a cut fence and one that an animal has gone thru
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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11-05-2016, 12:22 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C & C
You seem like a real Hero, well post up the location lets let some of us check out this locked off land.
I watched a cow break through a fence scratching this summer out by RHR, I phoned EID and reported it. I was out on the lake but it looked like it snapped all 3 when it broke and fell and rolled over.
Not saying they are not having issues but had someone told me cows snap fences like that I would have laughed at them.
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Why don't you tell Me where you live and I will come and tell you in person ??
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11-05-2016, 08:54 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusII
I did not miss it at all. I just called to cover my bases and she is telling me to go elsewhere. I was curious if she can even do that.
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Call her and point it out to her. There is a dispute resolution process in place, tell here you will pursue it if you have to.
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11-06-2016, 06:42 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi
Pretty easy to tell the difference between a cut fence and one that an animal has gone thru
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Yea the tire tracks usually give it away The brother in law had a moron a few years ago cut fence in five different places including the boarder fence while he was looking for a Pronghorn he had the guys licence plate and even where he was from, color of the truck, the game warden wouldn't do nothing about it. The guy even has the balls to come to the door before the season started to ask for permission. The fella was from Pincher Creek by the way.
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11-06-2016, 07:02 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Communist Capital of Alberta
Posts: 4,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck yote
Why don't you tell Me where you live and I will come and tell you in person ??
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April 2008 join and just over 100 posts huh? Who else have you been on the forum?
My guess (educated guess) is that if the quarter you speak of is truly surrounded by your deeded land, that you've gone and fenced across an allowance. I don't even need to to see it to tell you that. Troll's properties are usually terrible hunting lands anyway.
__________________
Social acceptance is NOT effective therapy.
Last edited by CBintheNorth; 11-06-2016 at 07:28 AM.
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11-06-2016, 07:27 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Communist Capital of Alberta
Posts: 4,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck yote
Well if anybody wants to come hunt my 1, 1/4 of crown land you can have at it . I just grazed it with 1000 steers last week . Took 2.5 days to eat every bit of grass on it . But there's only one condition guys.
Your going to have to jump from a helicopter cause there's no landing pad available cause its solid bush . Also note there's no landing on the land around it cause I own all of it , so that's private . Plus that one little old 1/4 is pretty much smack dab in the middle of my ranch so you wont be getting there by foot . Call all the people you want on me .It wont help your cause because the Queen says I don't have to let you even near it .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck yote
Well your wrong about that . Due to a lake and a river its land locked .
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I've figured it out. I just need to know the answer to 1 question...
The land in question is...
A) completely surrounded by your LAND.
B ) mostly surrounded by your land but partially by natural water bodies (crown property).
C ) a beaver lodge.
D) Never mind the land, you're a troll and unsure what you're talking about.
__________________
Social acceptance is NOT effective therapy.
Last edited by CBintheNorth; 11-06-2016 at 07:33 AM.
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11-06-2016, 08:21 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
Yea the tire tracks usually give it away The brother in law had a moron a few years ago cut fence in five different places including the boarder fence while he was looking for a Pronghorn he had the guys licence plate and even where he was from, color of the truck, the game warden wouldn't do nothing about it. The guy even has the balls to come to the door before the season started to ask for permission. The fella was from Pincher Creek by the way.
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I guess some people just have a different thought process and morals. For me the thought has never crossed my mind but the same can be said for stealing other people's stuff.
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11-06-2016, 08:26 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
Curious what the protocol would be if a lease says to call prior to access and the number is out of service?
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Is it our responsibility to get in contact with the lease holder somehow or do they have to update the land office/online system.
I feel if i tried to make contact I should be able to access provided I follow all rules.
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11-06-2016, 08:46 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck yote
Well if anybody wants to come hunt my 1, 1/4 of crown land you can have at it . I just grazed it with 1000 steers last week . Took 2.5 days to eat every bit of grass on it .
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If that's how you abuse public land that you hold as a grazing lease, then you're breaking the conditions of your lease.
__________________
The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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11-06-2016, 08:52 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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There is an awful lot of this
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11-06-2016, 08:55 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,774
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Then report them to the local land manager - in writing, and request a response. With a complaint on file, the land manager MUST investigate. Land Manager's names and contact info is available on line.
__________________
The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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11-06-2016, 04:22 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: SE Alberta
Posts: 620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck yote
Why don't you tell Me where you live and I will come and tell you in person ??
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Figures you are all talk, I am in Calgary its right in my posts. PM me and we can work it out. Like said above there isn't land locked crown and now that some are willing to call your bluff you think your threats are going to save you. PM me we can work out something.
Like the guys that are cutting fences you are the other end of the spectrum of the land owner trying to abuse the system. The grazing practises you use are also appalling, no different than someone cutting a fence. You and the ones like you along with the others that abuse the access they get are going to have all of us end up with nothing.
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11-06-2016, 04:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
The guy even has the balls to come to the door before the season started to ask for permission. The
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What a jerk. I hope you beat him with a rubber hose.
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11-06-2016, 06:03 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
Someone is already hunting there is a common excuse used to drive people elsewhere usually because they have friends or family they would rather have hunt IMO.
When I call I am rather direct....."My name is Mike I am a hunter and I was just calling you to let you know I intend to access this certain lease on a certain day and my truck is a grey Chevy 2500"....I am not calling to ask for permission I am calling to let you know.
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This is how you have to approach it. They cannot tell you no just because someone else has already asked.
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11-12-2016, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 81
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Reached out to a few lease holders tonight. Called on 4 or 5 and Secured access on a couple quarters from only 1 leaseholder.
-Denied access because lease was only accessible through private land
-denied because livestock was still in the fields
-method of contact was no longer in use
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11-12-2016, 10:01 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 459
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By far the most common excuse I heard this year is..
Sorry there will be cattle in the field until December. And we don't allow access when livestock is present.
I just happened to be on a piece of land just beside the lease I was trying to get on, and I heard 4-5 shots within an hour of first light come from that direction.. Very close proximity to where I was.
I mean honestly they pay for the lease, and if they use the land for it's intended purpose I have no issue with it. But when some owners tell you that, and then they hunt on that land anyways, that is crossing the line.
I agree with what someone else said. All alberta grazing lease should have to be empty of livestock by November 1st, by law. There should not be recreation restrictions, as it is Alberta land.
Bingo, problem solved... lease owners get to use land for grazing until November, Albertans get to use land for hunting. After that
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11-12-2016, 10:45 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianEh
By far the most common excuse I heard this year is..
Sorry there will be cattle in the field until December. And we don't allow access when livestock is present.
I just happened to be on a piece of land just beside the lease I was trying to get on, and I heard 4-5 shots within an hour of first light come from that direction.. Very close proximity to where I was.
I mean honestly they pay for the lease, and if they use the land for it's intended purpose I have no issue with it. But when some owners tell you that, and then they hunt on that land anyways, that is crossing the line.
I agree with what someone else said. All alberta grazing lease should have to be empty of livestock by November 1st, by law. There should not be recreation restrictions, as it is Alberta land.
Bingo, problem solved... lease owners get to use land for grazing until November, Albertans get to use land for hunting. After that
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Then you get the d-bags that think it's their god given right to do what ever and go where ever they want, and they don't feel they need to contact anyone for access. No wonder it's getting harder and harder to get access.
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11-13-2016, 07:27 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 273
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Interesting thread. Seems like our laws TRY to balance right of access and rights of the leaseholders, but they're not perfect. What's the population in Alberta these days - 4 million? Recreational access is going to become more and more of an issue I think. The people I know with lease land must be doing it wrong because none of them seem to be getting making much money off their lease land, especially not without putting in a lot of effort fencing etc. However, I do know of more than a few people who have had their land damaged by 4x4's etc without a request for access or who have had their fence cut.
Here's the bottom line, there is a limited amount of space and more and more people so we should make a real effort to be advocates for our chosen activity - i.e. Not only do the right thing but be seen to do the right thing. A little bit of online venting is harmless I guess but sure isn't productive either.
Best suggestion in this thread is to get out there during the offseason scouting and meet the landowners/leaseholders. Good luck out there!
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11-13-2016, 10:16 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianEh
I agree with what someone else said. All alberta grazing lease should have to be empty of livestock by November 1st, by law. There should not be recreation restrictions, as it is Alberta land.
Bingo, problem solved... lease owners get to use land for grazing until November, Albertans get to use land for hunting. After that
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Hunting isn't the only recreational use in Alberta, what about the ATV's, Campers, Berry Pickers, Dog Walkers, Hikers, Tobogganers, Equestrian etc.
We go with that method and every piece of lease will look like wmu 400.
I personally think an online signup method on the recreational access site would be the best. Put in your name, intended usage time and dates then print out a receipt. Hunters won't have to deal with the evil leaseholders and there will still be some accountability for cut fences and dead cows.
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11-13-2016, 10:41 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 700-223
Interesting thread. Seems like our laws TRY to balance right of access and rights of the leaseholders, but they're not perfect. What's the population in Alberta these days - 4 million? Recreational access is going to become more and more of an issue I think. The people I know with lease land must be doing it wrong because none of them seem to be getting making much money off their lease land, especially not without putting in a lot of effort fencing etc. However, I do know of more than a few people who have had their land damaged by 4x4's etc without a request for access or who have had their fence cut.
Here's the bottom line, there is a limited amount of space and more and more people so we should make a real effort to be advocates for our chosen activity - i.e. Not only do the right thing but be seen to do the right thing. A little bit of online venting is harmless I guess but sure isn't productive either.
Best suggestion in this thread is to get out there during the offseason scouting and meet the landowners/leaseholders. Good luck out there!
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You sir would get permission where others do not.
Attitude attitude attitude, it'll get you in or get the door slammed in your face.
Nobody likes to be pushed much less so when they have money invested and income at risk.
There's not one of the "It's my land too" crowd who would throw open the gates for the attitude they exhibit if they were the lease holder.
I have never in my life been denied access, on lease land or on deeded land. Granted I don't ask often but when I do, I try to see things from the land owners/lease holders prospective and that has always worked for me.
But I am also not desperate. There is plenty of crown land that no one has any claim to. Frankly I would rather avoid grazing leases and the crowds that descend on them every fall.
Honestly, if grazing leases were my only option I would find another way to enjoy the great outdoors. Who needs the hassles, and I don't mean from lease holders, I mean from the crowds. Add in some defensive lease holders and I'd rather shoot myself in the foot then go through that.
Hunting is not a right or a necessity. For most it is recreation. Just how much enjoyment does one get from fighting with lease holders and crowds of slobs?
I guess when you are used to having neighbors on every side taking up your parking spaces, blocking your driveway, maybe leased land is not so bad.
For me, living out here in the country where neighbors are few and neighbors are neighborly, lease land is just too much drama.
I hunt in part to get back to nature, not to get back to the big city.
Where I hunt there are no roads, no fences, no garbage, no crowds and I wouldn't have it any other way. If leases and drama was all there was available I'd find another way to enjoy nature.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-13-2016, 12:53 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednuck
I personally think an online signup method on the recreational access site would be the best. Put in your name, intended usage time and dates then print out a receipt. Hunters won't have to deal with the evil leaseholders and there will still be some accountability for cut fences and dead cows.
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And how would you control the number of people on the land at one time. What if there is an incident on the land like a fire, cut fence, dead cattle, or some one got shot how do you know who did it. Does everybody that signed in get held accountable or does the government pay the lease holder for any compensation then, so we as a tax payer as a whole pay for any wrong doing. Then there is the morons that just go where ever they please without permission and if an incident happens who is responsible. Oh! wait a minute I know the lease holder is held accountable then.
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11-13-2016, 01:21 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
And how would you control the number of people on the land at one time. What if there is an incident on the land like a fire, cut fence, dead cattle, or some one got shot how do you know who did it. Does everybody that signed in get held accountable or does the government pay the lease holder for any compensation then, so we as a tax payer as a whole pay for any wrong doing. Then there is the morons that just go where ever they please without permission and if an incident happens who is responsible. Oh! wait a minute I know the lease holder is held accountable then.
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How does the unlimited access everyone here wants solve any of these issues? No one solution is going to be perfect for the 3 parties involved in this, somewhere a compromise has to be made in the name of sanity.
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11-13-2016, 02:59 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR
Then you get the d-bags that think it's their god given right to do what ever and go where ever they want, and they don't feel they need to contact anyone for access. No wonder it's getting harder and harder to get access.
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But those same D-bags are the ones ruining it right now for me and you.
Unfortunate fact of life, D-bags are out there, and their population is increasing exponentially. That wont ever change.
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11-13-2016, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednuck
How does the unlimited access everyone here wants solve any of these issues? No one solution is going to be perfect for the 3 parties involved in this, somewhere a compromise has to be made in the name of sanity.
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So maybe hunters that want access to lease land should pay $1000 per year for the right to hunt lease land and that should cover any liability costs for any damages incurred over the year for any lease lands in Alberta. That would be a good compromise.
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11-13-2016, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
So maybe hunters that want access to lease land should pay $1000 per year for the right to hunt lease land and that should cover any liability costs for any damages incurred over the year for any lease lands in Alberta. That would be a good compromise.
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you are more then welcome to have the opinion hunting should be a paid access. I personally don't agree with it and think changes to our current system could be made to benefit the public and stop leaseholder abuse.
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11-13-2016, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednuck
you are more then welcome to have the opinion hunting should be a paid access. I personally don't agree with it and think changes to our current system could be made to benefit the public and stop leaseholder abuse.
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It's not paid hunting it would be a cost to cover all liabilities, I mean everyone wants random camping to have a yearly fee for random camping. You have to pay to use your off road vehicles on public lands. Where does it stop!!! There is not enough hurt feelings forms to go around nowadays.
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11-13-2016, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
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Wmu 312
I have a question, when I look at IHunter in 312 it shows Lease Land but says "must contact Leaseholder"? Why is that if we are permitted to enter by foot without permission?
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11-13-2016, 05:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
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Yes lease holders can deny even foot access if livestock is on the lease. They never have to allow vehicle access or a bicycle even on a permanent high grade road for any reason. But they can allow anything they feel like to friends at anytime, camping, fishing, hunting, atv's, they are absolute dictators when it comes to access. They can lock gates on roads which are all weather and been used for years which lead to thousands of acres of crown land for absolutely NO REASON. Of course they and friends then have a private hunting and fishing area. The latest wrinkle is keeping livestock on the lease until after hunting season is over, except they and friends drive all over, camp, and hunt by themselves all season on YOUR land. This is allowed because most leases now have no on-off dates. The windfall surface disturbance payments they receive and the ability to sell the lease not the improvements are the least of everyone's worries. You have basically lost your land! But reading this thread it looks like the majority are happy to give their land away. The scam is actually laughable.
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