Illegally stocked perch

[genoel]

I'm with you 100 % Sundancer! Not only is introducing different species into lakes stupid it is also illegal! Feel free to slander anyone who feels differently.

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I take serious objection to you having baileys without sharing

The only baileys I share is what is left over after I have passed out.

[TJG]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Yes...TJG. The assumption is a resident put it in. Local rumor has it that a couple of 14 year old came back with Mom and Dad from Gull or some such and put a bucket of them in. Clearly they were totally ignorant of the consequences and will now never admit what they did.

As per putting words into your mouth...you are still articulating your points poorly.

My post...



Your posted response...

As we are talking about illegal introductions of perch in put and take trout lakes and you appear to be arguing against...it puts you in favor of putting perch in there. If this was not your intended debate point then by all means change your position accordingly.

Otherwise, either you are missing the topic by a mile or are trolling to change the topic.

Either way you are wrong on so many fisheries management fundamentals that you might just want to do a bit more research and read that SRD position paper again.

Cheers

Sun

P.S. Just to clarify for you again. No one is advocating poisoning Pigeon Lake to stock rainbows

Once again u bend the truth to fit ur way of thinking.
My point is, every time this subject comes up on these
boards, u start practicing bio. Your take is old and out
of date, and that thinking is what got Alberta fisherpersons
up in arms and the lakes in the mess they are in.
No, I never said I condon illegal fish stocking.
No, I never said we should poison Pigeon Lake.
Your weak attempt at humor and putting me and others
in this discussion down, is childish. Weather u think others
are right or wrong, they deserve every chance to contribute
to the discussion. I believe you owe a few on here an apology,
personal, not just to anyone.
As for me, I don’t need one, I don’t care for you and you know it.

[Freedom55]

Originally Posted by Tony_S

Who can argue with intellect like that....if all else fails...
If memory serves me, he IS, or at the very least WAS, a 'professional' fisheries biologist in Alberta.
Does that make everything he says Gospel...nope! But, it DEFINITELY qualifies, and quantifies his 'opinion' more so than most..

Care to confirm this rumor, Mr. Sundancefisherguy? Let's have a little look at your credentials, if you don't mind. Your boner fee days? (oops!spelling)

[Tony_S]

Originally Posted by Freedom55

Care to confirm this rumor, Mr. Sundancefisherguy? Let's have a little look at your credentials, if you don't mind. Your boner fee days? (oops!spelling)

WTF!!?? "Mr. Sundancefisherguy?"???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You believe a person needs credentials....to agree with someone!!??

Listen bud...stir the pot all you like. Keep me the hell out of it!!

I can't believe I wasted the time it took responding to you....but here you go. Post #36

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...sher+biologist

[goldscud]

You're a classy fellow Freedom.
It is true that Sundancefisher worked in the past on a large variety of wildlife related projects (many for the government) after finishing his degree at university. It is safe to assume that his knowledge base/experience does offer a benefit to this community. True, he isn't perfect, but none of us are.

[Wulfespirit]

Sundance has been speaking factually and being argued with guys who couldn't properly manage a 10 gallon aquarium. It'd be frustrating being him.

People have their own opinions are what they want out of a fishery.. and if they differ from Sundances that's cool.. let the debate begin.. but his facts on stunting can't be argued with.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by TJG

Once again u bend the truth to fit ur way of thinking.
My point is, every time this subject comes up on these
boards, u start practicing bio. Your take is old and out
of date, and that thinking is what got Alberta fisherpersons
up in arms and the lakes in the mess they are in.
No, I never said I condon illegal fish stocking.
No, I never said we should poison Pigeon Lake.
Your weak attempt at humor and putting me and others
in this discussion down, is childish. Weather u think others
are right or wrong, they deserve every chance to contribute
to the discussion. I believe you owe a few on here an apology,
personal, not just to anyone.
As for me, I don’t need one, I don’t care for you and you know it.

Great. We both believe perch should not be illegally stocked and is bad and should be dealt with to the best of our ability.

So why does it seem like we are arguing.

You have slammed the "old" method but if that is your concern please articulate what this is.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

This is a standard read to see what the problem is in Alberta

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...djp_Sept24.pdf

Illegal perch introductions are an ongoing problem and concern.

Cheers

Sun

I stand by this report as accurate and reasonable.

Is there a bone you have to pick with something particular that SRD is doing? Please start another thread and we can discuss.

Cheers

Sun

[genoel]

Credentials or no credentials makes no difference. Anyone who has fished a trout lake more than a year or two after having perch illegally planted into it must see the same results. They become overloaded with millions of puny perch which are just a pain in the butt. If anyone knows of a trout lake where there are perch and this is not the case I'd sure like to know where,
because I haven't found any where the introduced perch have had a positive effect on the trout population or where the perch have become a viable fishery.

[Paul C]

I found a good way of catching trout when there is lots of tiny perch.
I lift the hook up slowly bringing the perch higher off the bottom of the lake. I get a strike from trout because they see a bait ball around the lure.
Simply put, use the perch to your advantage. This techinque works well with stickle back.
Happy Fishin

[Sundancefisher]

Sorry TJG...I should of responded directly to this to clarify your position prior to jumping to conclusions.

Originally Posted by TJG

People like Sundance and Don Andersen in RMH are in favor
of killing fish for the betterment of trout fishing. Please explain where I have stated anything of the sort...

I think we can all take a step back and see where we are bending the truth. I am all in favor of a truce... It would be a great New Years resolution and easier to do then a diet for me.

but who gives anyone the right to kill millions of fish for the sake of a few trout. Please explain where I have said anything of the sort?

What if all the walleye they stock in Sylvan, Pigeon, PCR, ect, were
endangered by some mysteriously introduced competitor for forage,
do you kill a lake that may include trout, as well as other fish? Your question is somewhat vague and can be interpreted differently depending upon what I think you mean. By definition the walleye were not there before...are native to the region but impact the perch and whitefish and sucker populations. So then it depends what the introduced fish is. If there is a good chance it can co-exist in equilibrium (say walleye as a simple case or muskies or sunfish or small mouth bass for instance as a tougher case) and not spread outside that lake and seriously impact the fishery then yes...you sit back...take the lump, prosecute if you caught them and manage the lake accordingly after that with special regs if needed. If by chance someone put in snakeheads or asian carp or zebra muscles and rotenoning was a viable option then yes...absolutely no question, I would strongly support it and volunteer to help. Questions like yours are not black and white all the time.

The bios that are looking after our lakes needed to find some
better answers and stop listening to organizations like Trout Unlimited,
and trout fisherman ****ed about their local lakes. I understand that you care less about trout and like native walleye, perch and pike better. That is great and your perogative and there are lots of lakes like that...maybe they need to be managed better in the past but they still exist and can work well today and in the future. You need not fear those lakes being taken over for trout as the cost would be prohibitive and the idea would not be accepted by the majority of managers or fishermen. I see pot hole lakes we are currently discussing very differently since they can not managed to be a fishery with native species as they are too small to sustain any harvest (pike, walleye and perch). Perch reproduce to fast and angling alone can not control them. Volunteer hours to also net are high but may work but who will volunteer to do the netting and protect the nets? Can you please give us a specific example about what problem occurred with respect to a local lake, trout, TU and biologists? I would be curious. As for trout fishermen being a problem...many want to catch other fish but down south we have fewer options then the lucky guys up north. I rarely caught a trout for the first 21 years I fished. I caught goldeye, mooneye, walleye, sauger, pike, burbot, perch, grayling, whitefish (lake) and suckers. I miss that variability.

Cheers

Sun

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jrs

The provincial government should really start rearing some tiger trout to combat this issue. In suitable lakes, aggresive predators could really thin out the little buggers. Plus tigers would still provide a trout fishery.

I would love to catch some tigers... They are cool looking hybrids.

[CeeZee]

i came across this info, its a bit of reading but someone like me who doesnt know much about it, it was pretty interesting.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...djp_Sept24.pdf

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by CeeZee

i came across this info, its a bit of reading but someone like me who doesnt know much about it, it was pretty interesting.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...djp_Sept24.pdf

Always a good read for the layperson.

I contributed the names of Midnapore and Sundance to the SRD and they in turn included our lakes in this report (under UNNAMED).

I really hope to show that netting activities such as what we are employing will have a positive effect and/or use for public waters.

Right now I have anecdotal information as to whether or not we are being successful.

We started off thinking the worst case scenario...massive over population of the lake with perch. The best case scenario is that while there is perch and an unchecked over population of perch in our lake...netting and intensive fishing pressure may help to show a noticable decrease in perch numbers. The expected side effect of reducing perch numbers is an increase in available food resources (thereby reducing the effects as a limiting resource) and therefore a reduction in stunting effects. That should cause an increase in the average size of perch caught.

While our average size of perch were about 6 inches in the winter of 2008/2009...this year we are seeing reduced numbers caught on average but an increase in size to about 8 inches.

It is hard to say if this is primarily reduced stunting or potentially a trapping bias to smaller perch that may preferably inhabit the shore line area.

When I write the report this year...I will have a lot of conjecture and some assumptions in place since I do not have a starting population estimate and a yearly population estimate.

Still...yearly netting success should eventually give us a quantitative value of success. Catch fewer and fewer perch each year...great news. Catch large and larger perch each year...great news.

Also while Sundance is going one way...Midnapore has stopped their netting activities so they should be going the other way. In about 2 to 4 years they should have a huge year class of large perch moving through their system just before the stunting starts happening.

Cheers

Sun

[slingshotz]

How long did Midnapore net for? Did they show any results from the netting activites? And why did they stop? Do they stock the lake with the same size trout as Sundance to ensure better survival?

Just wondering as we are thinking of moving there

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by slingshotz

How long did Midnapore net for? Did they show any results from the netting activites? And why did they stop? Do they stock the lake with the same size trout as Sundance to ensure better survival?

Just wondering as we are thinking of moving there

I don't have the exact effort that they made but the earlier lake manager was a strong proponent of netting. The new guy told me he wanted to protect the perch and stop netting and promoting their capture. He would not listen to the information. As they did not want my advice or help I have not done any more work with them. I would call the Midnapore Lake office and ask specific questions about how they are controlling perch numbers in order to not ruin trout fishing in the future. Maybe if a few prospective buyers asked this question of their real estate agents and the lake they would realize the fishing is a very important aspect of why people are buying into these communities. Asking the buying agent and selling agent and asking them to also phone the lake to inquire is good.

A couple years ago some buddies said they saw the odd big perch there...but I believe people may just not be a good at targetting them as we have become in Sundance. I should go over there and try and catch them some day.

[spopadyn]

I don't know the answer but was wondering - why don't they ever just stock native species that eat perch (i.e: walleye or pike). I realize this would also put the trout in jeopardy, but in a lake like sundance - man you would get some killer sized pike. I am still baffled why trout is such a preferred stocking species.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by spopadyn

I don't know the answer but was wondering - why don't they ever just stock native species that eat perch (i.e: walleye or pike). I realize this would also put the trout in jeopardy, but in a lake like sundance - man you would get some killer sized pike. I am still baffled why trout is such a preferred stocking species.

It is kinda a two part question and response.

Purely from the concept point of view...

When you look at this lake from a sport fishery perspective the one main thing it lacks to make it a pike, walleye, perch, sucker, whitefish fishery is size. These small pot hole or man made lakes just could not support a naturally reproducing sport fishing for your standard native sport fish with any kind of harvest. Trout is really the only sport fish that actually works from a practical perspective. Managing a lake this small just for a few trophy sized pike would not make a great fishing IMHO.

When you look at it from a logistical and legal point of view there is no provision to allow a private stocking of native species in Alberta. As such while interesting to think about, it would not be feasible no legal.

In the best case scenario...if there were no perch in this lake I would easily see a high daily catch rate (15-40), large >22 inch to 35 inch trophy rainbow fishery with properly managed limits etc. Effectively we should have up to 10,000 rainbows in this lake versus the 1500 we have now. We have to stock at lower rates to keep the trout from starving while we try and decrease the perch population.

If we can manage this lake to the point where the average guy can catch 10 - 15 rainbows in a day from 18 to 28 inches long as well as get 10 -15 perch between 10 and 14 inches long...that will be optimum. While the trout side can easily be done...the perch side will take a fair bit of managing effort. We can never rid the lake of perch without rotenone.

Cheers

Sun

[Paul C]

The perch are there so what is your solution to this issue Sundancefisher ?

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by slingshotz

Just wondering as we are thinking of moving there

Midnapore is one of the communities we're considering, too. If they've given up on trying to manage the perch population, that would certainly have a bearing on our decision.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Paul C

The perch are there so what is your solution to this issue Sundancefisher ?

Not sure what context your are referring to. Sundance or Midnapore or illegally stocked perch in general.

Sundance...we are trying to mitigate the damage and control perch.

Midnapore...not my community...but if asked I will help with suggestions.

Other waters such as public lakes...I will provide the information that we learn from Sundance to the SRD. If there is any valuable information to be gleaned then they can use it accordingly.

Does that cover it?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Midnapore is one of the communities we're considering, too. If they've given up on trying to manage the perch population, that would certainly have a bearing on our decision.

Call and ask.

Pressure from the community is what is needed to encourage responsible lake management. By responsible I mean making it the best possible fishery for what it was designed for.

Benefits to an older lake is they are more productive and could grow bigger trout. Chaparral has a very poor flyfishing area. Bonavista has limited boat access unless you bring a tube etc. I am trying to get over to a buddies place at Auburn Bay. Sounds like from reports Mackenzie is okay but the fish are stocked small and the limits are high.

Newer lakes do not have perch...but maybe could be managed better as a recreational fishery...lower limits, larger fish etc.

In the end...join the lake association board and help direct the fishery.

[pikester]

Originally Posted by C@RN@GE

How do u know there was not enough food left? There’s no way to prove that? Your just assuming that it has. Hassie has huge shallow forge base. The trout still grow even through 95 percent are removed the ones at the end of year are always a lot bigger then the ones they stocked.

You may sort of have a point but after studying the make-up of several lakes which produce large perch (10"-14") as well as reading countless articles about what it takes to grow huge perch, the bottom line is that there are not a large number of lakes which are capable of consistantly producing jumbos. It takes usually a large water body with a nice mix of shallow feeding flats as well as off shore reefs & lots of deep water as well. The significance of this variety is that many different types of forage need to be available at different times of the season so that the perch can shift seemlessly from one forage to another without missing a beat.

Perch can survive year 'round in shallow ponds feeding mostly on mosquito larvae & scuds (like Enchant) but the lack of variety in nutrition is what effectively "stunts" the population. In lakes with the various feeding opportunities like mentioned in the first paragraph, perch will in fact not select one prey item all season but will migrate around the lake & key in on several different food items, depending on what the protein requirements for the perch at that time. At first ice they may stay shallow feeding on shiners, perch minnows, or crayfish then later a large portion of the population will move deeper & target mayfly nymphs & midge larvae, then at last ice move shallow again to eat minnows & leeches again. If one component is missing then the chain is broken & the population may never gain jumbo status.

Let's also not forget that even when all the conditions of forage base & depth variation exist, perch populations are very cyclical so even the perfect lake may only produce real jumbos every now & then. This point could play a large factor in a situation where guys might be pounding 13" or 14' perch every weekend for a season or two then catch nothing but 8" perch for the next 3 or 4 years which leads people to believe that the lake is overfished. Then miraculously a couple years later the big ones start showing up again & everyone gets excited that the lake is recovering again!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pikester

Perch can survive year 'round in shallow ponds feeding mostly on mosquito larvae & scuds (like Enchant) but the lack of variety in nutrition is what effectively "stunts" the population. In lakes with the various feeding opportunities like mentioned in the first paragraph, perch will in fact not select one prey item all season but will migrate around the lake & key in on several different food items, depending on what the protein requirements for the perch at that time. At first ice they may stay shallow feeding on shiners, perch minnows, or crayfish then later a large portion of the population will move deeper & target mayfly nymphs & midge larvae, then at last ice move shallow again to eat minnows & leeches again. If one component is missing then the chain is broken & the population may never gain jumbo status.

Let's also not forget that even when all the conditions of forage base & depth variation exist, perch populations are very cyclical so even the perfect lake may only produce real jumbos every now & then. This point could play a large factor in a situation where guys might be pounding 13" or 14' perch every weekend for a season or two then catch nothing but 8" perch for the next 3 or 4 years which leads people to believe that the lake is overfished. Then miraculously a couple years later the big ones start showing up again & everyone gets excited that the lake is recovering again!

You would have to have a lot more information on the population dynamics and food availability to make some of your statements ring true.

Your one statement however is totally false and that a lack of nutritional variety is what causes stunting.

Stunting is only caused by a lack of food availability relative to the population size. Just that simple.

Your inferences on the cyclical nature of large perch in a system has some interesting thoughts. My experience tells me a few things. To grow jumbo perch you need lots of high quality food. Shrimp and minnows are the main ones needed for quality calories. You also need lots of food and fewer individuals competing for it. You also need good genetics in your population. At times predators can influence size by selecting for larger faster growing individuals that can escape more frequent predation at smaller sizes.

Lakes that have only perch may cycle jumbos now and again due to poor spawning or seasonal winter kill. This is not common. Normal lakes with regular species variety will always have some big perch. As they tend to hang together you will not typically catch them on a regular basis. Also the smaller perch tend to be faster and less picky when biting whereas on camera I tend to find the bigger perch more wary and slower to take the same bait.

Overall I believe you are referring to lakes with normal predator prey perch/pike/walleye systems. In a lake such as Hasse...stunting is the only option in the absense of a winterkill or successive year class failures.

IMHO

[pikester]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You would have to have a lot more information on the population dynamics and food availability to make some of your statements ring true.

Your one statement however is totally false and that a lack of nutritional variety is what causes stunting.

Stunting is only caused by a lack of food availability relative to the population size. Just that simple.
Your inferences on the cyclical nature of large perch in a system has some interesting thoughts. My experience tells me a few things. To grow jumbo perch you need lots of high quality food. Shrimp and minnows are the main ones needed for quality calories. You also need lots of food and fewer individuals competing for it. You also need good genetics in your population. At times predators can influence size by selecting for larger faster growing individuals that can escape more frequent predation at smaller sizes.

Lakes that have only perch may cycle jumbos now and again due to poor spawning or seasonal winter kill. This is not common. Normal lakes with regular species variety will always have some big perch. As they tend to hang together you will not typically catch them on a regular basis. Also the smaller perch tend to be faster and less picky when biting whereas on camera I tend to find the bigger perch more wary and slower to take the same bait.

Overall I believe you are referring to lakes with normal predator prey perch/pike/walleye systems. In a lake such as Hasse...stunting is the only option in the absense of a winterkill or successive year class failures.

IMHO

To address the 3 highlighted points:

Last one first- Yes in general I was referring to normal predator/prey lake systems.

First point- My statement regarding food selection as it relates to stunting is not totally false. It has been studied & proven in many lakes as well as in other animal populations that variety of forage as it relates to habitat variances is key to any population acheiving maximum health & grow capability. I know this because I had a good discussion with Jim Stelfox in Calgary a few years ago at a Cold Water Symposium about this exact subject. As I'm sure you know Jim is one of the most respected fisheries biologists in Western Canada although I haven't seen him for a while he may not be in the field anymore. He used the example of granola bars as he explained; "Imagine that you had a person who had nothing to eat but five granola bars a day. That person would conceivably survive for decades if not an entire life span but how healthy is that person? Take another person & feed them pasta, steak once in awhile, fresh vegetables, rice, chicken, beans, eggs, etc. Compare those two people. Both will have survived but who is likely to be in better shape & healthier thereby achieving maximum strength & potential?"

The point is obviously that quantity of food is not the same as quality. An ecosystem which doesn't contain a nice variety of nutritional sources will not recognize maximum growth potential. This can be as big a factor as lack of food. One of the best articles I have ever read is in F+W Outdoor Sports Ice Fishing 2008-2009 magazine. The article is titled "Filling Their Bellies" on page 76. This article explains exactly what I'm trying to explain about habitat & forage variety being key to producing jumbo perch.

Your second point about some lakes always having some jumbo perch is valid because again populations are cyclical & obviously there are several generations inhabiting a lake at any given time but I was referring to the fact that some year classes are more notable than others due to perfect spawning/ hatching conditions. This produces a situation like the one I eluded to where an unusually high number of large perch seems to be caught for a season or two & then "normal" sized perch are the story of the day for several years after leading some to believe that the population is overfished or unhealthy in some way. Certainly there will still be some big ones caught at any point due to variety of generations available but environmental conditions during/ after the spawn can play just as big a factor in the production of jumbos as food, habitat or predation.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pikester

To address the 3 highlighted points:

Last one first- Yes in general I was referring to normal predator/prey lake systems.

First point- My statement regarding food selection as it relates to stunting is not totally false. It has been studied & proven in many lakes as well as in other animal populations that variety of forage as it relates to habitat variances is key to any population acheiving maximum health & grow capability. I know this because I had a good discussion with Jim Stelfox in Calgary a few years ago at a Cold Water Symposium about this exact subject. As I'm sure you know Jim is one of the most respected fisheries biologists in Western Canada although I haven't seen him for a while he may not be in the field anymore. He used the example of granola bars as he explained; "Imagine that you had a person who had nothing to eat but five granola bars a day. That person would conceivably survive for decades if not an entire life span but how healthy is that person? Take another person & feed them pasta, steak once in awhile, fresh vegetables, rice, chicken, beans, eggs, etc. Compare those two people. Both will have survived but who is likely to be in better shape & healthier thereby achieving maximum strength & potential?"

The point is obviously that quantity of food is not the same as quality. An ecosystem which doesn't contain a nice variety of nutritional sources will not recognize maximum growth potential. This can be as big a factor as lack of food. One of the best articles I have ever read is in F+W Outdoor Sports Ice Fishing 2008-2009 magazine. The article is titled "Filling Their Bellies" on page 76. This article explains exactly what I'm trying to explain about habitat & forage variety being key to producing jumbo perch.

Your second point about some lakes always having some jumbo perch is valid because again populations are cyclical & obviously there are several generations inhabiting a lake at any given time but I was referring to the fact that some year classes are more notable than others due to perfect spawning/ hatching conditions. This produces a situation like the one I eluded to where an unusually high number of large perch seems to be caught for a season or two & then "normal" sized perch are the story of the day for several years after leading some to believe that the population is overfished or unhealthy in some way. Certainly there will still be some big ones caught at any point due to variety of generations available but environmental conditions during/ after the spawn can play just as big a factor in the production of jumbos as food, habitat or predation.

Thanks.

The only clarification I think we need to make here is that perch is the topic of discussion and specifically illegally introduced perch and not normal populations. Your statement is wrong if put into the context of putting perch alone or together with rainbow trout in a stocked lake scenario...regardless of forage quality. If you put 100 perch into a lake with 10000 shrimp and 10000 minnows...you will get jumbo perch. If you put 100,000 perch into a lake with 10,000 shrimp and 10,000 minnows you get stunted perch. In the absense of serious perch population controls (whether natural or man made)...stunting will always occur. That is proven. if you are referring to other species...I would prefer to keep this on topic as to perch only just so that any bucket biologists understand the concepts clearly.

You may be mixing up the topic of this thread insofar as your point being that in a normal system you get bigger perch with better quality food. Our attempts to explain stunting and the reasons why perch are bad to illegally stock is that regardless of their being "qualilty" foods in a pot hole lake...if you put perch in that lake you will eventually only catch stunted perch as their population explodes. Just wanted to make sure the readers know that it would be equally horrible to put perch in a stocked trout lake whether it had normal forage base or exceptionally high quality forage base. The effect will eventually be the same result. Stunted perch.

Just to keep this thread on topic...I won't really elaborate on your other points...as we are mostly in agreement outside of the concept of perch. Mind you Jim will also note that this stunting happens in Elbow Lake. To many fish...not enough food for the brookies.

Cheers

Sun

[pikester]

I guess you're right in regards to my getting off topic. I do tend to get carried away but in my defense, I think I started getting derailed after reading several of the responses The topic is about perch illegaly introduced into small lakes & trout ponds, not about perch in normal healthy ecosystems, got it!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pikester

I guess you're right in regards to my getting off topic. I do tend to get carried away but in my defense, I think I started getting derailed after reading several of the responses The topic is about perch illegaly introduced into small lakes & trout ponds, not about perch in normal healthy ecosystems, got it!

It is rare that a long discussion does not get off topic.

Cheers

Sun

P.S. I you are looking for a fun debate...go to the global warming thread

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=49975

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

It is rare that a long discussion does not get off topic.

True story!

It's not always a bad thing though...this one still made for a good read

[gdbccb]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

My experience tells me a few things. To grow jumbo perch you need lots of high quality food. Shrimp and minnows are the main ones needed for quality calories. You also need lots of food and fewer individuals competing for it.

Sundance, your comment makes me wonder about another option for dealing with stunted perch - feeding them!

Seriously, is there any reason why you couldn't come up with some kind of bulk fish food you could dump into a lake like Hasse to increase the size of the perch to the point of actually making it worthwhile to go and catch them?