2024 Draw Booklet is out!

[MooseRiverTrapper]

$500 per draw entry. $500 refunded when not drawn. Or $250 refunded upon getting drawn! Then clean up all the non regulated hunting and turn this terribly managed province around.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

See, the sky is now falling. Let’s do a little math shall we. Let’s say that making this tag reduces wait times by half. Optimistic I know, but let’s say that it does. 8X12 is 96. That is 96 months to put a $5 bill in your piggy bank to draw that tag. And you may actually draw the tag. Your kids might actually draw the tag.

Now apply that to antelope, moose (in certain zones), elk (in certain zone), and mule deer the same. For $100 a year you could likely double your trophy hunting opportunity. You could even reduce the price for general tags. Make them $5 if it makes you feel better.

Another happy plus to all this is potentially better trophy quality. For $500 I’m a lot more serious about what I harvest. It might actually fix the horrible job this Province does in managing trophy potential.

Now my question to you. What did you spend on fuel in 2023 scouting and hunting sheep?

So, um, silly question here....but what if someone doesn't give a **** about trophy potential?
I look for 4" when I'm hunting moose.

And if you're serious about limiting hunters from the draw pool, lets not **** around. $10,000 per draw.
That would ensure I get to go whenever I want.
Screw the rest of you.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

$500 per draw entry. $500 refunded when not drawn. Or $250 refunded upon getting drawn! Then clean up all the non regulated hunting and turn this terribly managed province around.

Since non regulated hunting makes game management impossible, why not deal with that first?

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

See, the sky is now falling. Let’s do a little math shall we. Let’s say that making this tag reduces wait times by half. Optimistic I know, but let’s say that it does. 8X12 is 96. That is 96 months to put a $5 bill in your piggy bank to draw that tag. And you may actually draw the tag. Your kids might actually draw the tag.

Now apply that to antelope, moose (in certain zones), elk (in certain zone), and mule deer the same. For $100 a year you could likely double your trophy hunting opportunity. You could even reduce the price for general tags. Make them $5 if it makes you feel better.

Another happy plus to all this is potentially better trophy quality. For $500 I’m a lot more serious about what I harvest. It might actually fix the horrible job this Province does in managing trophy potential.


Now my question to you. What did you spend on fuel in 2023 scouting and hunting sheep?

Following this reasoning, the best way to manage trophy sheep is to implement a draw in all zones with a $500 licence fee.

Interesting that some think hunting opportunities are managed by licence fee, when the licences considered are already issued on a limited quota basis. Would whitetail hunting be better managed by increasing license fees by 2-3x?

Quota, not fee, is the stronger management tool.

As others have said, not all management is focused on “trophy” potential. For many, the value is in other aspects like the meat, opportunity and experience and harvesting an old animal may not be desired.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by wind drift

Following this reasoning, the best way to manage trophy sheep is to implement a draw in all zones with a $500 licence fee.

Interesting that some think hunting opportunities are managed by licence fee, when the licences considered are already issued on a limited quota basis. Would whitetail hunting be better managed by increasing license fees by 2-3x?

Quota, not fee, is the stronger management tool.

As others have said, not all management is focused on “trophy” potential. For many, the value is in other aspects like the meat, opportunity and experience and harvesting an old animal may not be desired.

You may as well let the outfitters run everything that way if you want to kill a meat buck (Whitetail or Mulie) it cost $3500 or a trophy class it cost $6500. For a bear a 5’ and under $3000 and over 5’ $5000. Elk and Moose meat bull $4500 and a trophy $7500. This way you could get rid of the draw system and have no wait times and the outfitters could do game management. When they feel there aren’t enough animals they stop taking hunters out! Oh and trophy sheep and goat are closed as some think there aren’t the numbers there should be.

[Pathfinder76]

That falling sky thing again. Wow.

You never did answer my cost of fuel question.

[Smoky buck]

Increasing fees doesn’t change the number of hunters/available animals and you just need to look south of the border to see it is not going to solve wait times. Now if the increase in fees goes directly to wildlife enhancement projects this is worthwhile as increased game populations means there is more surplus animals. Kinda pointless to pay more for nothing in return

Trying to put an end to “ un regulated “ is not happening especially at the request of hunters. Like it or not hunters will loose this battle do to treaty rights and the fact FN have more political impact than hunter's. The only thing you could possibly stand a chance with is trying to get FN on board with voluntary reporting to improve wildlife management. But presently the relationship between FN and resident hunters is not exactly positive so expect FN to say pound sand. Like it or not the public/govt will back FN not resident hunters with any attempt to change FN hunting practices/rules without FN supporting change

So let’s stop dreaming and realize the fact the only way you are going to get improved wildlife management is building a relationship with FN in a way they contribute information to help wildlife management.

As I posted earlier residents still compete with non residents in the same draw pool. Find another province that allows this?. Really most provinces are cutting back non resident opportunities in general. It baffles me why there hasn’t been change here.

Again already mentioned why is there no wait time to become a resident hunter in Alberta? It’s pretty common knowledge this is an issue too.

But this is the same old BS of hunters would rather argue or make unrealistic demands or do nothing. Until there organization, unity, a change of mindset and learning to pick reasonable battles opportunities will dwindle

Odds are it will be all the same BS next year with little to no attempt to develop real change

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

That falling sky thing again. Wow.

You never did answer my cost of fuel question.

You have me confused with another poster. The question wasn’t directed to me. I never said the sky was falling, just commenting that licence fees aren’t a strong management tool for limited entry licences and that game management needs to consider more than trophy potential.

[Pathfinder76]

Yea, the poster directly above my response

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Really most provinces are cutting back non resident opportunities in general. It baffles me why there hasn’t been change here.

I bet the reason is that Alberta outfitters are better organized and connected than resident hunters.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Increasing fees doesn’t change the number of hunters/available animals and you just need to look south of the border to see it is not going to solve wait times. Now if the increase in fees goes directly to wildlife enhancement projects this is worthwhile as increased game populations means there is more surplus animals. Kinda pointless to pay more for nothing in return

Trying to put an end to “ un regulated “ is not happening especially at the request of hunters. Like it or not hunters will loose this battle do to treaty rights and the fact FN have more political impact than hunter's. The only thing you could possibly stand a chance with is trying to get FN on board with voluntary reporting to improve wildlife management. But presently the relationship between FN and resident hunters is not exactly positive so expect FN to say pound sand. Like it or not the public/govt will back FN not resident hunters with any attempt to change FN hunting practices/rules without FN supporting change

So let’s stop dreaming and realize the fact the only way you are going to get improved wildlife management is building a relationship with FN in a way they contribute information to help wildlife management.

As I posted earlier residents still compete with non residents in the same draw pool. Find another province that allows this?. Really most provinces are cutting back non resident opportunities in general. It baffles me why there hasn’t been change here.

Again already mentioned why is there no wait time to become a resident hunter in Alberta? It’s pretty common knowledge this is an issue too.

But this is the same old BS of hunters would rather argue or make unrealistic demands or do nothing. Until there organization, unity, a change of mindset and learning to pick reasonable battles opportunities will dwindle

Odds are it will be all the same BS next year with little to no attempt to develop real change

Subsistence hunting is not going away but mandatory forfeiture of heads may just get the trophy hunt side of it under control.
Crawling up a mountain for 60lbs of stinky goat meat doesn't seem like subsistence hunting to me

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Subsistence hunting is not going away but mandatory forfeiture of heads may just get the trophy hunt side of it under control.
Crawling up a mountain for 60lbs of stinky goat meat doesn't seem like subsistence hunting to me

Realistic request to limit trophy hunting under the claim of subsistence hunting

But most complaints from hunters regarding FN hunting is the unknown impact on overall population or female harvest making wildlife management less effective. Odds are impact on overall population are what most hunters have a bigger issue with

Personally I actually really like Mt goat meat but yeah the effort involved in most goat hunts doesn’t really make it a productive meat hunt in most situations

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by wind drift

I bet the reason is that Alberta outfitters are better organized and connected than resident hunters.

When it comes to outfitter allocation yes that is true. Again beyond keeping allocation % reasonable and holding them accountable for wildlife infractions picking a fight here is a waste of time. The government doesn’t want the industry removed and outfitters are more organized

But non residents being able to apply for draws and in the same draw pool as residents doesn’t benefit outfitters at all so I doubt it has anything to do with them. The non resident opportunities to hunters not using outfitters in Alberta far surpasses other provinces

[tbrown]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

When it comes to outfitter allocation yes that is true. Again beyond keeping allocation % reasonable and holding them accountable for wildlife infractions picking a fight here is a waste of time. The government doesn’t want the industry removed and outfitters are more organized

But non residents being able to apply for draws and in the same draw pool as residents doesn’t benefit outfitters at all so I doubt it has anything to do with them. The non resident opportunities to hunters not using outfitters in Alberta far surpasses other provinces

We as a collective group can stop non residents from entering the draw by simply not hosting them. Non residents have to apply with a resident. We are the ones inviting them into the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by tbrown

We as a collective group can stop non residents from entering the draw by simply not hosting them. Non residents have to apply with a resident. We are the ones inviting them into the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is not enough unity in the hunting community for that to ever happen. People don’t look at the big picture and focus on short term personal gain

I bet the same ones hosting people for draw application complain about wait times. The fact is as long as it’s legal people will keep using the opportunity and I don’t blame them for doing so honestly.

I host friends/family for whitetail but no draws personally.

It’s been pretty unanimous that a wait time to become a resident hunter is needed but there still hasn’t been a change there either

My prediction is people will just keep doing as they do and we will be here with the same issues next year.

[Desert Eagle]

It’s funny, every year, right about this time the same things pop up regarding hunting draws. When I hear about some of the challenges in other provinces of putting in for 14+ years and never getting a tag due to the random lotteries, it makes me grateful for what we have here in AB. We can plan a hunt with friends and family. We can choose to travel to a zone with more tags, or a shorter draw time (at least for most species). Some of the comments every year make me ponder if we had to pay $500 for a draw entry, would it make the province any better to live in? Would it actually help the game populations? I don’t think our system is perfect by any stretch, but honestly I think we need to be thankful for what we have, and if you have a concern to rally to make reasonable change within the parameters that we have to work with. Subsistence hunting isn’t going away, which is hard to know how impactful that is to game populations in different zones around the province.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

That falling sky thing again. Wow.

You never did answer my cost of fuel question.

About 35 bucks because I shot my Mule doe and Whitetail buck both the first morning I went out.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Desert Eagle

It’s funny, every year, right about this time the same things pop up regarding hunting draws. When I hear about some of the challenges in other provinces of putting in for 14+ years and never getting a tag due to the random lotteries, it makes me grateful for what we have here in AB. We can plan a hunt with friends and family. We can choose to travel to a zone with more tags, or a shorter draw time (at least for most species). Some of the comments every year make me ponder if we had to pay $500 for a draw entry, would it make the province any better to live in? Would it actually help the game populations? I don’t think our system is perfect by any stretch, but honestly I think we need to be thankful for what we have, and if you have a concern to rally to make reasonable change within the parameters that we have to work with. Subsistence hunting isn’t going away, which is hard to know how impactful that is to game populations in different zones around the province.

Honestly I don’t have the time for more hunting opportunities than I have right now. I limit myself to taking one or two draws a year. If I took more it would be more meat than we could eat. I am very thankful to have experienced all the hunts that I have done and been on with family and friends. I have taken some trophies and a lot of fill the freezer game animals. Plus did my dream job of guiding for some absolute beautiful animals in my younger years.
Like you said our draw system isn’t perfect but it will let me keep getting out in the bush chasing the animals I love.
For those that think they should get better hunting opportunities and trophy quality by making it too expensive for poorer people to enter the draws I only have one thing to say to you.

Shame on you all.

[bonedogg]

Originally Posted by wind drift

My point is less about the actual dollar value, but how this decision aligns with government platform and the process for coming to an amount. In principle, a 3x increase in a licence fee seems arbitrary and big enough to have some rationale behind it, other than it was too low. What is a fee increase intended to achieve? Might there be a similar move to similarly increase fishing some fishing licence fees?

I just got an old tackle box that had a fishing license in it from 1989. license was $7 and back then the regulation changes was to reduce Walleye limits to 3 keepers a day....lol

fishing license now is under $30? seems pretty fair to me....

$5 draws for up to 4 people and $50 tags isn't going to change the dial that people stop buying them and take a chance....

government platforms.....its only UCP here which works just fine!

[DRhunter]

Originally Posted by Desert Eagle

It’s funny, every year, right about this time the same things pop up regarding hunting draws. When I hear about some of the challenges in other provinces of putting in for 14+ years and never getting a tag due to the random lotteries, it makes me grateful for what we have here in AB. We can plan a hunt with friends and family. We can choose to travel to a zone with more tags, or a shorter draw time (at least for most species). Some of the comments every year make me ponder if we had to pay $500 for a draw entry, would it make the province any better to live in? Would it actually help the game populations? I don’t think our system is perfect by any stretch, but honestly I think we need to be thankful for what we have, and if you have a concern to rally to make reasonable change within the parameters that we have to work with. Subsistence hunting isn’t going away, which is hard to know how impactful that is to game populations in different zones around the province.

Agree with this 100%.

I really struggle to understand how anyone can be arguing to give government more money to pi$$ away. If you really want to push higher costs for hunting, advocate for paid access to landowners rather than increasing draw fees. At least your significantly higher costs and reduced hunting opportunities (for those without the ability to pay good money for hunting leases) would result in a push for better habitat.

Like Buckculler, our group tries to organize 1 or maybe 2 draws to focus on each year; our draw system is great for this type of planning.

DR

[gevarm guy]

Keeerist a tank of gas cost 150 bucks, same with dinner out one night. Pay the fee's and tag and have a good hunt. Want to wine about where fee's go ask Turdo about tampons in a men's bathroom which we pay for!

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Honestly I don’t have the time for more hunting opportunities than I have right now. I limit myself to taking one or two draws a year. If I took more it would be more meat than we could eat. I am very thankful to have experienced all the hunts that I have done and been on with family and friends. I have taken some trophies and a lot of fill the freezer game animals. Plus did my dream job of guiding for some absolute beautiful animals in my younger years.
Like you said our draw system isn’t perfect but it will let me keep getting out in the bush chasing the animals I love.
For those that think they should get better hunting opportunities and trophy quality by making it too expensive for poorer people to enter the draws I only have one thing to say to you.

Shame on you all.

Well put Buckculler, but you see it's all about greed! There are quite a few here that don't want to wait for a draw and figure they should be able to pull a tag every other year. I'm ok with waiting my turn to pull a tag.

[WeaselBeard]

Originally Posted by Desert Eagle

It’s funny, every year, right about this time the same things pop up regarding hunting draws. When I hear about some of the challenges in other provinces of putting in for 14+ years and never getting a tag due to the random lotteries, it makes me grateful for what we have here in AB. We can plan a hunt with friends and family. We can choose to travel to a zone with more tags, or a shorter draw time (at least for most species). Some of the comments every year make me ponder if we had to pay $500 for a draw entry, would it make the province any better to live in? Would it actually help the game populations? I don’t think our system is perfect by any stretch, but honestly I think we need to be thankful for what we have, and if you have a concern to rally to make reasonable change within the parameters that we have to work with. Subsistence hunting isn’t going away, which is hard to know how impactful that is to game populations in different zones around the province.

I echo and applaud your sentiment here. It is nice to plan a trip (with or without others). It is not perfect, but considering other provinces' systems, AB has it pretty fair and pretty good.

[whitetail Junkie]

To me its maybe just as much of the timing of the increase in licences more than them actually going up in price that upsets me.even though as others have mentioned they are still fairly affordable.

People are getting kicked in the teeth with inflation and cost of living increases weekly and the government knows alot of people are struggleing so for them to triple and double some tags this year tells me they dont really give a crap about the average person.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Since non regulated hunting makes game management impossible, why not deal with that first?

Can’t deal with it, it would trigger a charter issue and “they” could very well end up, with all of the hunting.

[stiknfish]

All this did was remove the 3000 acres in the bowzone from any elk being hunted the land owner that lets me hunt his property has said he will not allow any muzzleloaders during any of the seasons due to no consultation and "ramming this new season down their throats". Way to go, there were 9 cow elk killed last year in the dec/jan seasons .We also killed 4 during the november archery season . Good work that is 13 cow elk that will not be removed this year and will all have babies .great move .

[astepanuk]

Wondering if I'm reading the regs wrong but under general changes they switched Strathcona county just 248 and with that looks like under the non draw tags it's Archery only in 248 for not just White tail but all animals.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Can’t deal with it, it would trigger a charter issue and “they” could very well end up, with all of the hunting.

Then the game in Alberta can never be properly managed. It's really that simple.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Then the game in Alberta can never be properly managed. It's really that simple.

Following that logic, to “properly” manage, it would also be necessary to quantify and control how many animals die annually of all causes, such as predation, winterkill, disease, parasites. That would be ideal, but is not realistic. Rights-based harvest is another source of mortality that can remain an unknown. The biologists can monitor trends in post-season population numbers and sex ratios but are limited in their abilty to conduct surveys in any given year. So, they have to extend estimates over some number of years in most WMUs, making adjustments for significant events such as fires, bad winters, tick increases, CWD, etc. They also track recreational hunter success and harvest. Perhaps subsistence harvest can be estimated, but I bet there would be some more trust that would need to be built for that to happen.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by wind drift

Following that logic, to “properly” manage, it would also be necessary to quantify and control how many animals die annually of all causes, such as predation, winterkill, disease, parasites. That would be ideal, but is not realistic. Rights-based harvest is another source of mortality that can remain an unknown. The biologists can monitor trends in post-season population numbers and sex ratios but are limited in their abilty to conduct surveys in any given year. So, they have to extend estimates over some number of years in most WMUs, making adjustments for significant events such as fires, bad winters, tick increases, CWD, etc. They also track recreational hunter success and harvest. Perhaps subsistence harvest can be estimated, but I bet there would be some more trust that would need to be built for that to happen.

Then why make it illegal for non-indigenous hunters to not report? Just estimate that one too.
Either hunting harvest is important information or it isn't. Simple as that.