Man attacked for taking pics in public in Toronto.

[pikergolf]

My favorite form of photography is candid portraits, but I don't have the guts to start snapping peoples photos. If you ask, they know it's being done and you never get the look you wanted, before they knew they were being photographed. On someone really striking I'll ask, but other than that it's not worth the hassle. It's always in the back of my mind how would I feel if I or my wife or kids were being photographed. Unfortunately with the INTERNET nobody feels comfortable.

[Redfrog]

There is no expectation of privacy in a public place.

If Menzies was rude and lacked common courtesy, then what did the assailant and the crowd lack when she attacked him and surrounded him demanding his camera while his child was there and he was doing nothing illegal?

[sdkidaho]

It's interesting to read these comments from somewhere other than the USA. We tend to focus on where we live and not always realize that the problems we have are also elsewhere in the world.

Whenever I read these issues about muslim people, it starts to get under my skin. We have some cities, Dearborn Michigan being one, where it seems that there are two sets of rules for people, the muslims being one set and then everyone else. I read about a couple of guys that had problems because they preached something other than muslim doctrine near a muslim festival. I notice on their front page they have a story regarding Toronto.

I don't understand all of it... if you break the law, no matter who you are, you pay the price. I thought that was the purpose of having laws? I don't understand why we are pandering to certain groups of people, in my country, your country or any country in the world.

[greylynx]

I feel sorry for the immigrant who is trying assimilate into Alberta society and become a "regular dude".

[elkhunter11]

I feel sorry for the immigrant who is trying assimilate into Alberta society and become a "regular dude".

You might be surprised at just how easily most Albertans accept an immigrant that genuinely tries to fit in. Where I work we get many immigrant tradesmen, and the ones that show that they really want to be Canadian, and make an effort to learn our language, are welcomed with open arms. Two of my hunting partners are from Brunei, and they have fit right in with most Albertans. They get just as annoyed as anyone else when they see immigrants that expect special treatment.

[Zuludog]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I think that it was a setup from the word GO! If I was sitting there with my wife and kid(s) minding my own business and some freak started taking pictures of us I'd be up asking WT? he was doing as well! Have a look at the pictures that the guy took. They aren't of a flower with the family in the background or anything like that, they were pictures of someone's family! Now why would someone do that? The fella taking the pictures was out to cause a problem by invading someone's privacy and he got the reaction that he was hoping for.

This isn't about race or religion to me at all and if I was sitting with my family minding my business and someone started snapping pictures of us for no particular reason he'd probably get slapped up the side of the head AND I'd probably take his camera too because I didn't know what he was going to do with the pictures of my family. Who wouldn't do that?

I think that the police did the right thing............the guy with the camera got in someone's face to provoke them and he got the reaction that he was looking for and then pulled the "poor me" routine. This story is going nowhere with anyone that can see through the BS.

x2 I'm inclined to see things the same way Dave does here. Maybe because I'm not exactly a fan of getting my picture taken. Let alone by someone I don't know and without my permission. I think he probably deserved to be punched, I might have decked him too. OK I would've liked to deck him but likely wouldn't though as he was with a child.

All that being said there is definitely a double standard most times when a woman hits a man. As a cop I probably would've "let it go" too. Basically no harm no foul. If he had been hurt or his camera broken then that might be a different story. The "Physical contact had been made. Why did severity matter?" quote, just reeks of the guy being a pu$$Y and a coward to me.

Too many people hide behind laws and rights. If this guy had some decency he wouldn't of been a $h1t disturber in the first place. The Canada I was raised in we showed other people respect and have manners. I wouldn't dream of taking anyone's picture, let alone a families without asking for permission first.

This is just my take on the picture incident and not on race, religion and/or immigration. I don't have enough time or eloquence for that. In a nutshell as others have stated if you came here to escape your crappy country make an effort to adopt our laws and customs and to fit in, without expecting or demanding special privileges and rights.

[jimbo1]

well i dont know about in ab but in england last year muslims burned poppies during a rememberance day service in london and police did NOTHING!! they are allowed to do as they please no mattter how disrespectful of offensive

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by sdkidaho

It's interesting to read these comments from somewhere other than the USA. We tend to focus on where we live and not always realize that the problems we have are also elsewhere in the world.

Whenever I read these issues about muslim people, it starts to get under my skin. We have some cities, Dearborn Michigan being one, where it seems that there are two sets of rules for people, the muslims being one set and then everyone else. I read about a couple of guys that had problems because they preached something other than muslim doctrine near a muslim festival. I notice on their front page they have a story regarding Toronto.

I don't understand all of it... if you break the law, no matter who you are, you pay the price. I thought that was the purpose of having laws? I don't understand why we are pandering to certain groups of people, in my country, your country or any country in the world.

Give me a break.

Fanatics are fanatics. There are probably more daily problems in the US with right wing political nuts, Christian religious zealots, anarchy nuts, racists etc... But hey...let's just lump everyone together in a billion person religion...even if you don't actually know a muslim yourself. Fear is a scary emotion...both for yourself and society. Fear mongering is a destructive process that serves no purpose but to intentionally harm society.

I have muslim friends. Do I fear them? NO. Do I hate them? NO. Why...because I know them.

Take this advice. Get to know some people of the muslim faith. Hang out with them for a while.

[geo]

Those that are defending Menziod here...

How would you react if a scruffy Arab guy started taking pictures of you wife and kids out in public. Like got into their faces and took some pictures.

Pretty creepy.

Menziod is a creep looking for a fight. No sympathy from me. I'd punch him in the teeth too if he was taking pictures of my family for no apparently reason either. Pretty creepy.

He should be a man about it and not cry that a lady smacked him one for being a creepy perv.

I can almost hear him complaining to Adler about some creepy middle eastern guy taking photos of his family in a food court. The guy is a hypocrit and a baby.

People like this guy **** me off. This would have been a non-story if he didn't invade a reasonable boundary of privacy of this family. Should the lady have smacked him one? Absolutely. No one around here has an issue with a lady defending her family from a pervert, which is what I'd assume Menzoid is taking close range photos of her family.

Creep.

[pickrel pat]

assault is assault. end of story.

[geo]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

assault is assault. end of story.

Once upon time men were men. I wouldn't imagine going to the police demanding charges because a woman slapped me.

Nothing racial here. The guy is a baby. Big baby.

And was acting like a pervert. What kind of creep takes close up shots of a family without permission? That's seriously extremely questionable behavior.

When a man is acting in such a way, I think it's reasonable that a woman can assume he has questionable intentions and that sort of thing must be repelled at once. She must protect her children from imminent harm. If some person is acting like a pervert in public, it's right to stop them from doing so before children are harmed.

Are you honestly telling me you wouldn't care if some guy was taking close up photos of your family and refused to stop when you asked? You'd just shrug and strike a pose for him? Tell your kids to smile? Don't be an idiot.

Provocation is a full-stop defense to assault in Canada. She would have won immediately in court. There is no question this was a provocation and she was likely also defending her children from what she may have perceievd as a pedophile or pervert.

[FrostyinHell]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Give me a break.

Fanatics are fanatics. There are probably more daily problems in the US with right wing political nuts, Christian religious zealots, anarchy nuts, racists etc... But hey...let's just lump everyone together in a billion person religion...even if you don't actually know a muslim yourself. Fear is a scary emotion...both for yourself and society. Fear mongering is a destructive process that serves no purpose but to intentionally harm society.

I have muslim friends. Do I fear them? NO. Do I hate them? NO. Why...because I know them.

Take this advice. Get to know some people of the muslim faith. Hang out with them for a while.

Sorry Sunshine, fanatics are not fanatics. There is a big difference between Christian and Islamic fanatics. This country was founded on Christian values, regardless of whether you are religious or not. These same values are what prevented us from becoming like "them" (that's right I said "them").

Nowhere in Canadian society could any of us get away with the disgusting lack of respect for person and property that is so common place in that part of the world. I am not a religious man in any way shape or form, this is a personal choice. I do however believe that everyone is entitled to practice their own religion as they see fit, as long as it does not contradict our laws and values.

As far as lumping all of the muslims into a "billion person religion" you are right, it's too bad that 98% are giving the other 2% a bad name. As one of my interpreters in Afghanistan pointed out himself, "Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslim". I do know and have worked very closely with many muslims. I consider several to be friends and have talked at length with them about thier religion. The idea that the muslim religion is one of tolerance is a great big steaming pile of crap. Many confuse muslims with buddists. The Qur'an preaches conversion of all other religions to the muslim faith. If we do not convert we are to be beaten into submission or killed for believing in a god other than the prophet Muhammad.

I really do get tired of people in this country making excuses for foreigners behaviour. Before you come into our country, read and understand our laws because if you break the law you should be held accountable no exceptions. Believe me we are held responsible for any laws that we break in thier country. A friend of mine was dehydrated and had to take a drink of water during the hot as hell mid day during Ramaddan in 2008. A cop saw him and took him into custody. He was subjected to multiple lashes and had to publicly appologise. After which he was escorted from the country. And that was for having a drink of water. Sounds like a reasonable religion/culture to me.

From Geo -- "When a man is acting in such a way, I think it's reasonable that a woman can assume he has questionable intentions and that sort of thing must be repelled at once. She must protect her children from imminent harm. If some person is acting like a pervert in public, it's right to stop them from doing so before children are harmed."

What are you talking about, he took a couple of pictures of the family, he wasn't luring kids into his pedo wagon dressed up like an ice cream truck. I'd be willing to bet that there are pictures of you and your family in other peoples hands that you are unaware of (kids sports, social gatherings or even around town).

[geo]

Originally Posted by FrostyinHell

From Geo -- "When a man is acting in such a way, I think it's reasonable that a woman can assume he has questionable intentions and that sort of thing must be repelled at once. She must protect her children from imminent harm. If some person is acting like a pervert in public, it's right to stop them from doing so before children are harmed."

What are you talking about, he took a couple of pictures of the family, he wasn't luring kids into his pedo wagon dressed up like an ice cream truck. I'd be willing to bet that there are pictures of you and your family in other peoples hands that you are unaware of (kids sports, social gatherings or even around town).

You're telling me you're ok with someone taking pictures of your family up close and if they refuse to stop after you've nicely asked you'll just what? Smile?

I call bull****.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I just want to find out opinions from the "Assault is Assault" crowd.

So,some guy should be allowed to go to a beach,a park,a schoolyard etc. and start taking pictures of children without risk if being assaulted by a protective parent? After all,it's not illegal.

It's not against the law either to call people names. So think of the worst names that you could call a woman and somebody can call your Mother,Wife, Daughter any of those names without risk of a physical assault since nothing illegal was done?

I must be a violent person. If some stranger started taking pictures of my kids at the park,or some guy called my Wife,Daughter,Mother a C^&^ with me around;Brother,somebody is getting hit.

[Redfrog]

I'm with you Geo. If I see someone doing something that is an imminent threat to the lives of my family, like taking a picture in a public place, I'm gonna go all postal on him and beat him unconscious.

The cops will back me up I'm sure. I mean it's not like someone firebombing my house in the middle of night. I have rights ya know.

I can't believe they even sell cameras. Doesn't the gubmint know there are perverts out there just waiting to take pictures. Hell! they're all over the internet. There's even sites like Photobucket devoted solely to store and display these prurient pics.
If we don't take matters into our own hands and beat the snot out of people with cameras where will it end?

[Bear Grylls]

Originally Posted by FrostyinHell

Sorry Sunshine, fanatics are not fanatics. There is a big difference between Christian and Islamic fanatics. This country was founded on Christian values, regardless of whether you are religious or not. These same values are what prevented us from becoming like "them" (that's right I said "them").

Nowhere in Canadian society could any of us get away with the disgusting lack of respect for person and property that is so common place in that part of the world. I am not a religious man in any way shape or form, this is a personal choice. I do however believe that everyone is entitled to practice their own religion as they see fit, as long as it does not contradict our laws and values.

As far as lumping all of the muslims into a "billion person religion" you are right, it's too bad that 98% are giving the other 2% a bad name. As one of my interpreters in Afghanistan pointed out himself, "Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslim". I do know and have worked very closely with many muslims. I consider several to be friends and have talked at length with them about thier religion. The idea that the muslim religion is one of tolerance is a great big steaming pile of crap. Many confuse muslims with buddists. The Qur'an preaches conversion of all other religions to the muslim faith. If we do not convert we are to be beaten into submission or killed for believing in a god other than the prophet Muhammad.

This is so skewed/incorrect. I don't know you, but I can tell you base all your "information" off of movies and what you see in the media. If you actually knew a muslim, (or even any arab), or had visited a country in the Middle East, your views would be very different....


Oh, and how I know you're full of sh*t: "The Qur'an preaches conversion of all other religions to the muslim faith. If we do not convert we are to be beaten into submission or killed for believing in a god other than the prophet Muhammad. " -> So false. For starters Muhammad isn't their god.


also, "lack of respect for property"? Are you serious? You're so ignorant.


Edit - and 98% of muslims are extremists/terrorists? LOL! You've definitely not had any contact with any muslim, ever.

[geo]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I'm with you Geo. If I see someone doing something that is an imminent threat to the lives of my family, like taking a picture in a public place, I'm gonna go all postal on him and beat him unconscious.

What? She beat him unconscious? Did I misread something?

If she had beat him to death, that's another story. Pushing a guy in the face that is taking close ups of your family after you politely asked him to stop is a different story than beating a guy unconscious. Get your facts right.

The cops will back me up I'm sure. I mean it's not like someone firebombing my house in the middle of night. I have rights ya know.

Originally Posted by Redfrog

If we don't take matters into our own hands and beat the snot out of people with cameras where will it end?

The point was he was asked to stop. In Canada, when people politely ask others to stop, they do. Who the hell is this Menzoid? Some foreign guy? What does he not understand our customs of respect for others? This woman far more represented the Canada way of standing up for your family and being polite before resorting to other measures to repeal a threat.

I get it, you don't like this colour of people or something. Seriously if some Arab guy was lurking around a mall, snapping close ups of children, I doubt you'd react the same if a beautiful blonde slapped him.

[elkhunter11]

It's hard to believe that some people can be so paranoid over a man being accompanied by his young son walking around taking pictures in a public place. If you feel so threatened, perhaps you should start a campaign to register cameras?

The man was doing nothing illegal, and he was assaulted. It's as simple as that.

[geo]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The man was doing nothing illegal

No, but it was extremely creepy, especially after he refused to stop taking close ups.

He knew what he was doing. Don't play dumb.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FrostyinHell

Sorry Sunshine, fanatics are not fanatics. There is a big difference between Christian and Islamic fanatics. This country was founded on Christian values, regardless of whether you are religious or not. These same values are what prevented us from becoming like "them" (that's right I said "them").

Nowhere in Canadian society could any of us get away with the disgusting lack of respect for person and property that is so common place in that part of the world. I am not a religious man in any way shape or form, this is a personal choice. I do however believe that everyone is entitled to practice their own religion as they see fit, as long as it does not contradict our laws and values.

As far as lumping all of the muslims into a "billion person religion" you are right, it's too bad that 98% are giving the other 2% a bad name. As one of my interpreters in Afghanistan pointed out himself, "Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslim". I do know and have worked very closely with many muslims. I consider several to be friends and have talked at length with them about thier religion. The idea that the muslim religion is one of tolerance is a great big steaming pile of crap. Many confuse muslims with buddists. The Qur'an preaches conversion of all other religions to the muslim faith. If we do not convert we are to be beaten into submission or killed for believing in a god other than the prophet Muhammad.

I really do get tired of people in this country making excuses for foreigners behaviour. Before you come into our country, read and understand our laws because if you break the law you should be held accountable no exceptions. Believe me we are held responsible for any laws that we break in thier country. A friend of mine was dehydrated and had to take a drink of water during the hot as hell mid day during Ramaddan in 2008. A cop saw him and took him into custody. He was subjected to multiple lashes and had to publicly appologise. After which he was escorted from the country. And that was for having a drink of water. Sounds like a reasonable religion/culture to me.

From Geo -- "When a man is acting in such a way, I think it's reasonable that a woman can assume he has questionable intentions and that sort of thing must be repelled at once. She must protect her children from imminent harm. If some person is acting like a pervert in public, it's right to stop them from doing so before children are harmed."

What are you talking about, he took a couple of pictures of the family, he wasn't luring kids into his pedo wagon dressed up like an ice cream truck. I'd be willing to bet that there are pictures of you and your family in other peoples hands that you are unaware of (kids sports, social gatherings or even around town).

If you are going to make up facts to support your bigotry...at least make them sound reasonable.

There are fanatical Christian groups preaching hate all over the place. You just don't care because it ruins your arguments. So if Christians are murdering doctors that provide women reproductive health care and Christians that are protesting US servicemen funerals because they are against homosexuality and Christians that are killing each other whether protestant or catholic in Ireland...you don't care.

Fact is there are fanatics with a lack of morals and values. There are fanatics that believe a religion can be one sided and negative.

Your type of fanatical rant is what breeds the fanatics on the other side. Without fanatics on either side...we would just be fishing and not typing.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's hard to believe that some people can be so paranoid over a man being accompanied by his young son walking around taking pictures in a public place. If you feel so threatened, perhaps you should start a campaign to register cameras?

The man was doing nothing illegal, and he was assaulted. It's as simple as that.

You don't believe that a persons actions in public can be construed as rude and offensive?

So let's say for argument purposes that you were at the public water park with your 11 year old daughter and a guy was standing there with a camera snapping close ups of her? Would you care? Would you say something? If he did not stop...would you walk away?

By your admission there was nothing illegal. So...hmmm...I guess you would of smiled and waved at him and suggest he snap photos with the Sun behind him for better light.

Just saying...you stress it is black and white...but maybe you are missing or ignoring the gray.

[FrostyinHell]

Originally Posted by geo

You're telling me you're ok with someone taking pictures of your family up close and if they refuse to stop after you've nicely asked you'll just what? Smile?

I call bull****.

I can only go by what I have seen on the news and heard here, I was not there. From what I saw there was not much time between being told to stop and being attacked. Ever heard of escalation of force? Besides, the issue is not THAT he was attacked but rather that the cops did not even follow due process and charge the woman as requested, regardless of what we think would happen in court. If that womans husband were photographing your family and you told him to stop and he didn't, and you went and punched him........ You can bet that you would have a court date. This country is so busy trying to make foreigners feel welcome that we are screwing over our own people. Enough is enough, adapt to our culture or get the hell out!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FrostyinHell

I can only go by what I have seen on the news and heard here, I was not there. From what I saw there was not much time between being told to stop and being attacked. Ever heard of escalation of force? Besides, the issue is not THAT he was attacked but rather that the cops did not even follow due process and charge the woman as requested, regardless of what we think would happen in court. If that womans husband were photographing your family and you told him to stop and he didn't, and you went and punched him........ You can bet that you would have a court date. This country is so busy trying to make foreigners feel welcome that we are screwing over our own people. Enough is enough, adapt to our culture or get the hell out!

LOL...the news as written by the party complaining...is not neutral to the discussion.

[elkhunter11]

No, but it was extremely creepy, especially after he refused to stop taking close ups.

Looking at the pictures, they aren't what I would call close ups.
As for being creepy, that is your interpretation. If someone was taking pictures of you as you were in your own yard,I might very well agree.
But this was in a public place, if the woman was that offended, she could have left, instead of resorting to assault. If she was so afraid of being photographed, she could have stayed home.

[FrostyinHell]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

LOL...the news as written by the party complaining...is not neutral to the discussion.

Be that as it may, neither you nor I were there so we have to go by what was reported.

[elkhunter11]

You don't believe that a persons actions in public can be construed as rude and offensive?

Do you assault everyone that you consider to be acting rude or offensive?

So let's say for argument purposes that you were at the public water park with your 11 year old daughter and a guy was standing there with a camera snapping close ups of her? Would you care? Would you say something? If he did not stop...would you walk away?

He wasn't taking close up pictures of one person, he was taking pictures from far enough away that many people are in the pictures. And if for some reason I felt threatened, I would take my daughter and leave rather than commit assault in front of her.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Looking at the pictures, they aren't what I would call close ups.
As for being creepy, that is your interpretation. If someone was taking pictures of you as you were in your own yard,I might very well agree.
But this was in a public place, if the woman was that offended, she could have left, instead of resorting to assault. If she was so afraid of being photographed, she could have stayed home.

Or talked to the cops. They were already there.You know like normal folks do.

It is beyond stupid to think that it is OK to assault someone because you think he's creepy. Unbelievable. Walk downtown and see how many creepy people there are.

You're picture is taken several times a day.

[elkhunter11]

In order for the self defense alibi that some posters are promoting to be valid, the people being photographed would have had to actually feel threatened. Look at the men in the pictures,they sat there watching, and didn't even get out of their seats. If they felt that their family members were being threatened, why didn't they get up and protect their families? It's quite obvious that they didn't feel that their families were being threatened.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FrostyinHell

Be that as it may, neither you nor I were there so we have to go by what was reported.

Yes...and common sense view of that story should tell you more information is needed before the witch hunt begins. If you believe everything someone writes without thinking...how about some swampland for sale that would make an excellent summer cottage...

[elkhunter11]

Yes...and common sense view of that story should tell you more information is needed before the witch hunt begins. If you believe everything someone writes without thinking...how about some swampland for sale that would make an excellent summer cottage...

You don't have to believe the reporters interpretation, believe only what evidence you can see for yourself.

As I so plainly posted in my previous thread, look at the men in the pictures.If you felt that your family was in some way being threatened, would you have remained in your seat through the entire incident like they did?Or would you have been the one protecting your family?