Cypress Hills: Any Elk Left or...

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Just for interest there is a sign up at the entrance to Police Point Park in Medicne Hat, Cougar Sighting.

same thing in downtown red deer.

[Scales]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

At the completion of my 3-year study, data from radiocollars, wildlife cameras and snowtracking has helped me to identify 15 to 20 adult cougars and at least that many kittens/juveniles in Cypress Hills Interprovincial Park. In this isolated patch of habitat, the cougar population exploded within a decade to a density of 6.5-8.25 cougars/100km2.

I bet that is how they screwed it up. Thanks for posting that.

But if you think of it, even that density listed is more than I ever thought it would be. Converting to square miles, that works out to an average of one cougar per 4.5 - 5.8 sections (square miles) of land.

That is a lot of cougars!!

[Scales]

There have been cougars along the South Saskatchewan river for as long as I can remember. The older ranchers claim you can tell when they are travelling through the area because a lot of deer head to the safety of the islands in the river. I would guess that there are more of them now than ever before, if Cypress Hills population is at the highest concentration of any population.

Does anyone know the best way to trailcam "trap" cougars? Do they respond to any bait or attractants? This time of year is a bad time for deer to try to escape to the islands as most of them are underwater and the river current should keep the deer out of the water. It would be my hunch that the cougars know that and would be more likely to troll the river area for deer.

I am a firm believer that a mix of old and new (stories from old timers who have lived on the land - as well as university researchers) is the best way to go when trying to learn about local wildlife.

[KI-UTE]

Originally Posted by CHIPPAB

So I think it is unfair to characterize our management as mismangement; it is quite the opposite. We stand beside our record, and that of our colleagues in ESRD. And we look forward to welcoming the new hunters this year.

The mis-management that I was referring to was and still is the grotesque mis-management of the "top of the food chain" predators, which have seen essentially nothing for cull or reduction in numbers in any way shape or form, and the problem not being addressed or resolved to this day as evidenced by the spread of the large cats way beyond the boundaries of the park.

To manage wildlife, you cannot simply manage a couple of ungulate species and say to the wind with everything else!!! But this is what the Alberta Govt has done.

Admit it! Mis-management... not just a little bit, a grotesque amount.

We cannot possibly conclude yet what the effect this little experiment has already had nor what is yet to come. There is far more on the line than just deer and elk.

With the cougar population hitting 1 per square mile in the Cypress Hills area(???? that's what it is sounding like from the quotes) that is as close to a cougar behind every bush as it can get scrapper. It is called maximum carrying capacity exeeded, again poor management of wildlife.

The 20 adults + the 20 kittens (+ those unaccounted for element that fool the biologists every time cuz they don't fit the computer model but do live in the real world so plus 5 to 10 here) = cougar numbers from which year? I believe I read these numbers over 2 years ago (ishoot?) = Oops we aren't ready yet...

plus two more springs/years of reproduction, calculate a minimum of 10 females having 3 kittens in one of those two springs... (sub-total = 30 kittens lill' scrap guy just here alone)...

minus a couple kittens that got run over on the road (oh forgive me for rejoicing, I am an Albertan that didn't come from Edmonton!)

and one that some ole codger shot off his front porch in the middle of the night on a bait under the yardlight!!! and one shot here and one shot there by these wonderful ranchers that have guns and know what you are supposed to do with them... (oh ya... sorry)

Okay, I admit I got side tracked

plus the female cats that fell thru the cracks, didn't fit the little mould by the researchers (don't believe it??? just look to the grizzly bear numbers that our "scientists" have come up with 500-600 bears [are we allowed to shoot walking grizzly tissue under 48 months of age on sight with no repercussion as it is not actually a bloody bear? surely it must be legal???] look at us all shake our heads in dis-belief at this supposed science, surely this science goes the same way... (a wake up call to wildlife researchers, you have lost your credibility) again, these female cats also produce litters...

...Equals what actual number??? you do the math.

(Scrapper, we all understand that you can't perform complex mathematical equations so please do not attempt. Please continue in your belief that the 20 cats only pretended to reproduce over 10 years therefore population continues to maintain 20 cats)(perhaps your findings are not unwarranted, perhaps this young 10 year old population simply has not yet figured out how to do it yet??? How long did it take those kids in that movie where the two kids get stranded on a tropical island and they grew up there to figure it out?)

A retraction on my part... the cougars are not and never were stupid and ignorant. However such colorful language would better describe the management of this species on the prairie!!!

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

you have spewed an awful pile of bullsnot in this thread. im guessing that most of your info comes from coffe shop row rather than actual fact. thats ok, lots of guys do that, but dont tell mistruths about me or what i said. lets go on back and have a gander at what i said in my very first post in this thread which was post #10.



the evidence shows quite clearly that as the cougar population rapidly grew, the elk numbers plunged. lately, they have stabilized, and from what i understand are again rising. thats the quote.....show me where i said the elk were threatened. you might be confusing me with someone else.



maybe because i never said that......




no, i have provided plenty of evidence showing you to be very wrong on more than one point.




actually, michelles evidence says that you are very wrong. her findings go directly against most of what you have been peddling in this thread. if you wish to learn a few things based on actual fact rather than just heated emotions, i have offered more than once to send you (or anyone else for that matter) a copy of michelles thesis. your passion tells me that you are a caring devoted outdoorsmen, which i applaud.....however, you would have more credibility using facts in your arguments.



we arent pals. i dont know you.

Hahaha ISB if you ever come by leth let me know ill buy you a beer or two, between this and your badger skills I feel like I owe you one for sure. Offer is real btw

[PBHunter]

[QUOTE=KI-UTE;1498580] and the problem not being addressed or resolved to this day as evidenced by the spread of the large cats way beyond the boundaries of the park. [QUOTE]

Dude you just don't get it ... first of all, why can't the cats live outside the park ? is it supposed to be some magical invisible fence and these animals aren't allowed to roam across it? Do the deer and elk live outside the park? There is also such thing as migration between populations and displacement of members of a population ... cougars have and always will (hopefully) live outside of the park.
It has been shown that cougars pose little risk to cattle , possibly a horse or person and certainly some dogs may go missing, but overall these animals don't really involved themselves with affairs of humans.
Secondly, how in the world can you believe that all of the kittens in a cougars litter will survive into adulthood? Doesn't happen, more like 10-20% of all kittens.
Who cares if the population is at carrying capacity? Generally, that is good, means the ecosystem overall is doing well, because the stuff at the top of the triangle is usually an indicator that stuff at the base of the triangle is also doing well ...

[KI-UTE]

For decades we had this wonderful balance of nature happening that included the sportsman, lots of game to shoot everywhere including an abundance of trophy class animals. That was without a grotesque over population of the big cats, just a nice light smattering of them, everything was sustainable.

We have not seen thru the end of this thing yet, the population continues to explode and expand, unchecked, un-managed. What damage will be incurred to our wildlife population? Who knows? It will not be limited to the ungulates.

All wildlife should be managed.

We really do not need to be over run with big cats. No problem with having some.

[PBHunter]

Hmm, actually I believe landowners are allowed at any time of year to shoot cougars and black bears on there land without a license. Also, I believe that hunters were allowed to shoot cougars last year, for the first time ever, in some of the prairie zones, without the use of dogs. Is this not a form of management? If there are cats behind every tree, how many cats actually got shot last year with this new "cougar" season? Maybe ISB or walking buffalo have some info on this ... not sure if SRD actually track it or not.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Just for interest there is a sign up at the entrance to Police Point Park in Medicne Hat, Cougar Sighting.

Absolutely there are cats in the Medicine Hat area, got some trail cam pictures just east of the Hat on the farm..

Last season, caught one in a field South West of the Hat as well..

As well, we had a wolf trippen through the area, caught him on camera as well and got up close and personal twice with this wolf as well..

Cheers !

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by KI-UTE

The mis-management that I was referring to was and still is the grotesque mis-management of the "top of the food chain" predators, which have seen essentially nothing for cull or reduction in numbers in any way shape or form, and the problem not being addressed or resolved to this day as evidenced by the spread of the large cats way beyond the boundaries of the park.

Originally Posted by KI-UTE

For decades we had this wonderful balance of nature happening that included the sportsman, lots of game to shoot everywhere including an abundance of trophy class animals. That was without a grotesque over population of the big cats, just a nice light smattering of them, everything was sustainable.

.

ok fella.....i have shown the evidence to the other guy spewing out drivel in this thread, and now i need to address yours. the reason that the cat hunt surrounding the park was so long coming is for the fact that there needs to be substantial evidence to create a hunt where there was none. i dare say that if michell had not come along needing a project like this, there may not be a season still. thats a guess.

them cats have been coming and going through cypress for a lot longer than a decade. the local srd and particulary parks staff denied that they were present for a very long time (again guessing) because i suspect they were afraid of scaring tourists. even when cats began showing up on cameras, it was denied. they didnt finally admit it until they were forced to when one was killed by a car on hwy41 at the ski hill. a dead body is pretty tough to deny. they certainly are not confined to the park fence either. typically, a male can have a home range (according to michelle) of up to 750 sq km. that would have a tom travelling well outside the park if all things were equal.

the reason for the cat explosion was quite simple. there was an abundance of prey. i think most outdoorsmen are familiar with predator prey relationships and how they fluctuate with one another. in the early part of the 2000s, the elk numbers were around 1500. with an unofficial target (explained it already) of around 600, the carrying capacity was grossly exceeded, and for those local that are familiar with the story, area ranchers were hopping mad at the whole situation. so much so that they leaned on srd hard enough to have a special february hunt in 2002. go back and have a look at tag numbers for hunters during that time. tags were at an all time high, and hunters also had a hand in bringing elk numbers down to reality.

the one thing that doesnt make sense is that whitetails are the number one food source for the cats, yet their numbers according to michelle were on the upswing at the time she quit her research in 2009....which was a year after the mighty spring storm that killed everything...

at any rate, CHIPPAB already explained that the cypress elk hunt is a management hunt only. i dont know if he will confirm it, but ill go ahead and say it......park staff really doesnt want to have a hunt in there at all. ive heard them say it that if they had their way, they would shut it down immediately, but without it, the elk could spread unchecked. fortunately, managing hunters IS a part of any game management. the sheep lovers dont seem to get that, but its the truth in todays society.

i havent heard any news from the park for this last year so i cant say what numbers are doing with cats or elk. CHIPPAB says the elk are near the target number, so that leads me to believe that the last couple years since michelle finished up has in fact seen balance achieved with the elk at least.

i get that as a hunter you just want to see more and bigger animals in the field, but from a management standpoint for now it seems that objectives are being met. now take that info i gave you and go kill an elk this fall.

dale

[CHIPPAB]

Hi IShootBambi,

I didn't mean to be cagey about the target population for Elk. Based on an original agreement made in 1978, the number is 700. The carrying capacity of the hills is far greater than that of course- the rub being that there is very little winter habitat in the hills. Thus we have a negotiated agreement with various stakeholders as I described earlier.

The cougar population is still a bit unknown - I work with Michelle's suggestion which would give us 15 adults and as many kittens, plus or minus 5. There's no reason to believe that Cypress is that much different from other places they have done exhaustive studies. We're on the high side from a concentration point of view, but absolute numbers are quite modest. And you are quite right - kittens and adults die or move off elsewhere. A typical predator dynamic, tied closely to food availability. Cat capacity is also limited by social aspects as they are territorial.

I've only been around Cypress a few years, but from my understanding there wasn't any secret squirrel stuff surrounding the cougars. The Park recognized that cougar sightings had at some point gone beyond transient cougar to resident population. It was Parks and ESRD that sponsored Michelle's work originally as they wanted to paint a clear picture of cougar activity to allay fears of the public and ranchers. They wanted to be sure a cougar population wasn't unjustly persecuted for every missing housecat, lost calf or someone's bad day deer hunting. As well as the scientific opportunity afforded by looking at an establishing cougar population in a forest island.

I'm not a hunter myself, but probably half of the current park staff are. And in my experience in parks across the province the ratio is not that different. Hunting is permitted in 85% of the park land base across the province: http://www.albertaparks.ca/albertapa...s/hunting.aspx

Hunting has it's pro's and con's - Elk for example, are really hard to see most times of the year (compared to say, Banff). So there is a lost visitor opportunity. But fundamentally it is the most cost effective way to manage elk, and we can do it while offering a great outdoor opportunity for hunters. Win-Win.

The other big thing is that we recognize the value of an active, engaged hunting community. Hunters and fishermen have proven to be some of the most effective forces for conservation. The world needs hunters and fishermen. There is also a place for hunter-free areas, which are generally protected areas; but these don't exist on their own; it's a big package.

This is why the park started offering learn-to-fish programs for kids three years ago. We could have counted tadpoles, caught butterflies or hiked to the top of a hill. Well, we still do those things. But 2-3 times a week in summer we go out with a busload of kids and try and catch a fish. And we'll pan-fry it on the spot if we have time. We're not teaching fishing though; we see it as helping to spark the next generation of conservationists.

So don't be too quick to write off Parks and our attitudes- we're a pragmatic bunch, and many are hunters and fishermen. Sure you'll find some that don't like the elk hunt, but actions speak louder than words.

Good luck to all who get drawn!

Sincerely,

Peter Swain

District Manager
Cypress Hills Interprovincial Park-AB

[ishootbambi]

thanks for that response CHIP. hopefully you can stick around this forum a bit. there are often questions about hunting and fishing at cypress, and having someone here with the right answers is a plus.

[CHIPPAB]

Thanks to all who contributed to the thread - whether we agree or respectfully have another point of view. If there is a thread anyone thinks could do with a Parks perspective, feel free to PM me. Threads with Cypress generally show up in my google notifications but I'm sure I don't get all of them.

Cheers,

Peter

[trophyboy]

I grew up about 5 miles from the Cypress Hills as the crow flies and still own some land there as does my brother who ranches out there. I know all of the ranchers that live around there and until about 10 years ago, give or take there were no cougars or were perhaps the odd one, but to my recollection there were none. During all of my years of living and hunting out there the deer and elk populations were fine. There was an abundance of animals. There didn't seem like there was an over abundance just a healthy population. Now that the cats have arrived the deer population has declined drastically as has the elk. There is a direct correlation. Also, there are several cats living many miles from the hills, following the creeks, coulees, and flatlands going in all directions from the Cypress Hills. That tells me there is a huge number of cats and they have had to expand their territory.....either that or they have had to expand their terrritory to find the few deer that still exist out there simply because they ate them all in the hills?

If you ask me they should kill every damn one of them as they are nothing but a nuisance. There will come a day when a little kid will get grabbed and eaten by one in a campsite in Elkwater and then all the cat lovers can explain how smart they were for introducing them into the area. I personally will kill everyone that I see given the opportunity.

Here kitty, kitty.

[madatter]

So I guess we should kill every cat in every park in Alberta cause there is the potential for danger to humans...
While we are at it lets kill every grizz and black bear.....they are pretty dangerous too..
Really stuff like this amazes me...
They have as much of a right to be there as we do...if you think it's too dangerous to be out there don't go...
I've probably spent more hours in the Hills hiking,hunting,fishing and camping than most and do not feel threatened in the least by the cougars there.
I've seen tons of track and turds but never a cat.
As for the cougar having a huge effect on elk populations well....I'm gonna go with an effect,huge I doubt...
When a 3 year study of cat scat says the majority of cat food is deer its pretty hard to argue against it.
As far as the actual elk population count goes,it seems migration between the two provinces and down to the Sweetgrass Hills can affect counts far more than cougars do.
Let's killem all all right! Yeesh

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by trophyboy

and then all the cat lovers can explain how smart they were for introducing them into the area.
Here kitty, kitty.

It starts again.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by IR_mike

It starts again.

It'll never end.

[PBHunter]

Originally Posted by trophyboy

If you ask me they should kill every damn one of them as they are nothing but a nuisance. There will come a day when a little kid will get grabbed and eaten by one in a campsite in Elkwater and then all the cat lovers can explain how smart they were for introducing them into the area. I personally will kill everyone that I see given the opportunity.

Here kitty, kitty.

Hmm, and someone thought the cougars were ignorant and stupid, /sigh ;(

[scrapper]

Back to what I said all along....the cougar population is not having a negative effect on the Elk population. The Elk population is well managed without giving special consideration to hunters. Hunters are strictly used as a tool to keep the herd at a sustainable number, that is exellent management strategy. The cougar population will be managed if and when that is needed, 15 adults and 15 juveniles is not a big number.

What is interesting about this thread is the sense of entitlement felt by some hunters, I dare say anyone who wants to wipe out the Cougar population so they can hunt Elk would not be considered a true sportsman in anyones book.

I think its clear after reading the letter from the gov representative the cougar population is not considered a problem, exactly what I said all along.

[scrapper]

I would also like to thank Chip for some actual facts about Cougar numbers. The management of the Elk population is being done perfectly as far as I am concerned, this province has a diverse population some hunt, most don't, the herd management of all species has to be done for all. Now maybe we can just relax about NON cougar issue in the Cypress hills all the facts are in and they aren't causing the Elk population any problems........hate to say it but I told you so.....

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by scrapper

Back to what I said all along....the cougar population is not having a negative effect on the Elk population. The Elk population is well managed without giving special consideration to hunters. Hunters are strictly used as a tool to keep the herd at a sustainable number, that is exellent management strategy. The cougar population will be managed if and when that is needed, 15 adults and 15 juveniles is not a big number.

What is interesting about this thread is the sense of entitlement felt by some hunters, I dare say anyone who wants to wipe out the Cougar population so they can hunt Elk would not be considered a true sportsman in anyones book.

I think its clear after reading the letter from the gov representative the cougar population is not considered a problem, exactly what I said all along.

how does the sand taste?

[cacty]

Originally Posted by madatter

So I guess we should kill every cat in every park in Alberta cause there is the potential for danger to humans...
While we are at it lets kill every grizz and black bear.....they are pretty dangerous too..
Really stuff like this amazes me...
They have as much of a right to be there as we do...if you think it's too dangerous to be out there don't go...
I've probably spent more hours in the Hills hiking,hunting,fishing and camping than most and do not feel threatened in the least by the cougars there.
I've seen tons of track and turds but never a cat.
As for the cougar having a huge effect on elk populations well....I'm gonna go with an effect,huge I doubt...
When a 3 year study of cat scat says the majority of cat food is deer its pretty hard to argue against it.
As far as the actual elk population count goes,it seems migration between the two provinces and down to the Sweetgrass Hills can affect counts far more than cougars do.
Let's killem all all right! Yeesh

Well said!

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by madatter

As for the cougar having a huge effect on elk populations well....I'm gonna go with an effect,huge I doubt...
When a 3 year study of cat scat says the majority of cat food is deer its pretty hard to argue against it.
As far as the actual elk population count goes,it seems migration between the two provinces and down to the Sweetgrass Hills can affect counts far more than cougars do.
Let's killem all all right! Yeesh

correct that elk are affected. whether it is negative or not depends on your opinion i reckon. if you want huge numbers of elk, then i guess its bad. considering the elk numbers were way over the target and cougars helped bring the herd count in line with the management objective, many would consider that a positive effect.

correct that deer are the number one food cource. nobody knows why whitetails are preferred to mules.

incorrect that migration between provinces means anything. ive said it numerous times here that the cypress herd is counted as one population in the park. it doesnt matter whether the animal is standing in alberta or saskatchewan on counting day, the herd is one. not sure why so many are having a hard time understanding that fact.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

correct that elk are affected. whether it is negative or not depends on your opinion i reckon. if you want huge numbers of elk, then i guess its bad. considering the elk numbers were way over the target and cougars helped bring the herd count in line with the management objective, many would consider that a positive effect.

correct that deer are the number one food cource. nobody knows why whitetails are preferred to mules.

incorrect that migration between provinces means anything. ive said it numerous times here that the cypress herd is counted as one population in the park. it doesnt matter whether the animal is standing in alberta or saskatchewan on counting day, the herd is one. not sure why so many are having a hard time understanding that fact.

Well said.

Anyone who has spent any time at all tracking and hunting those elk, especially in bow season will echo the fact that the elk have 100% without a doubt been effected. Its not all negative, Like I have said before, the elk have changed their patterns and behaviours in the past couple years. Many herds no longer go back to the security of the park as the cats were slaughtering their calves. The herds have now gone from just a few calves to many. As an added bonus, now more elk stay out of the park for the bowhunters

[scrapper]

Wow will this ever end.... now we have cougars slaughtering elk calves... of course we have no evidence of this slaughter other than someone who thinks he knows the Elk patterns, yes one person has decided that he has seen the evolution of the elk herd....I guess he thinks there were never Cougars in the park before or that the Elk population has never had to deal with natural predators.

This mindless hocus pocus BS, or should I say unsupported theories have to stop. No one has any evidence of the cougars slaughtering the elk calves. ISB will quote us all from Michelles report to confirm that, or he will bless us all with another one of his "guesses", either way it sure seems this Walt Disney game management or should I say the BIG BAD Cougar theory cannot be supported by any known fact.

I believe we have reached an impass, we will agree to disagree. You know I was thinking I would like to give ISB a swift boot in the ass, but of course all that would accomplish is to break the nose of some guy from Lethbridge.... relax boys just having a little fun.

[cmahussier]

Just got back from a long weekend of camping and quading and started in on this thread bout a hour ago but... Just out of curiosity how many cats have been seen in the park by people like us. Like I stated earlier I was there in the last week of the 2010 season and killed a great elk by my standards a 6x6 that grossed 339 and netted 327. I was there a total of 7 days hunting and spotting and saw 3 cougars. We say tons of elk everyday and I believ the herd is being managed to perfection.Just my two bits! What have the rest of you guys seen???

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by scrapper

Wow will this ever end.... now we have cougars slaughtering elk calves... of course we have no evidence of this slaughter other than someone who thinks he knows the Elk patterns, yes one person has decided that he has seen the evolution of the elk herd....I guess he thinks there were never Cougars in the park before or that the Elk population has never had to deal with natural predators.

just exactly how many times does it need to be said and quoted that the evidence clearly shows that cougars eat elk? you seem like the kind of guy who pizzes into the wind on purpose just to prove you wont get wet....but then gets mad when you do.

I believe we have reached an impass, we will agree to disagree. You know I was thinking I would like to give ISB a swift boot in the ass, but of course all that would accomplish is to break the nose of some guy from Lethbridge.... relax boys just having a little fun.

youre welcome to try that. i wouldnt recommend it though.....

[scrapper]

Yah yah I suppose you will give us a quote from Michelles report on a swift boot in the butt too, I am pretty sure I killed tougher guys than you just getting to a fight. LOLLOL, besides being a self proclaimed know it all I can see you also have a big zero for a sense of humor.

Hey do me one favor, go through all my posts on this subject and show me once where I ever said cougars don't kill elk....duh. Of course I never said that. I just said they didn't kill the 900 you blamed on them but I never said they did not kill elk. Certainly cougars kill elk in the park, not the 900 you claimed but they kill a few each year that would again fit into what most of us would consider common sense.

ISB you have to be the biggest JA on this forum, you have zero evidence the decline of the Elk population can be blamed on cougars, Michelles report gives no evidence the elk herd has been decimated by cougars. You claimed as many as 40 or more Cougars then Chip says maybe 15 and 15 kittens.....BTW kittens have less than a 50% survival rate in the wild. In any event if it wasn't so much fun to jerk your chain and challenge your opinions I would have stopped posting on this thread a long time ago.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by scrapper

In any event if it wasn't so much fun to jerk your chain and challenge your opinions I would have stopped posting on this thread a long time ago.

you dont seem to have very good reading comprehension do you? ive quoted a pile of facts to show your opinions very wrong. i have stated a few opinions in this thread, but made it clear thats all they were. see, i can see the difference between fat and opinion. see facts are what they are and cant be disputed. your opinions do not make them false. it seems pretty clear to anyone reading this what those facts are. you seem to want the last word that your opinion is the ultimate. you wont convince anyone that can read, but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out.

oh, by the way, i have sent copies of michelles report to a few that asked for it. i still think you should read it.

[scrapper]

Actually my opinions have been absolutely correct, getting back to the original post I stated the elk population has not been decimated by the Cougars. All the factual information both on and off this thread support that opinion. I said that the cougar population was way overstated by you and a few others on this thread, that opinion was also confirmed dead on by CHIP.

I never once stated that cougars did not kill elk and you cannot dispute that. I did say cougars did not kill the 900 elk you claimed they killed...again all facts and evidence presented on or off this thread support my opinion as being absolutely correct.

Look pal just get on with what ever it is you do, my advice for you is quite simple...when you find yourself in a deep hole....quit digging!!

I challenge all readers to dispute this next statement : All true ethical hunters are first and foremost the ultimate conservationists. No ethical hunter or sportsman will ever condone the eradication of any species to further enhance the opportunity of the hunter. True hunters respect the bio diversity of nature and know beyond any doubt that the only real predator that threatens the sport we love is HABITAT loss, nothing in the history of sport hunting has had such a profound effect on wildlife populations.

With respect to the Cypress Hills Elk population, true hunters/sportsman will be the wall that halts the progress of those that feel the need to eradicate the cougar population just so they may have a better opportunity to kill an elk. The simple fact that the cougar population has increased in the area speaks volumes on the Govenrments of Alberta and Sask to properly manage not just the elk population but the deer and moose herds as well. Sportsman will trust in the experts ability to determine if an when the cougar population exceeds a sustainable number and that those same experts will take the actions to correct the balance when they see fit.