Russia bombs kill two in Poland!

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

Stop using Russian missiles to intercept Russian missiles; German missiles are vastly superior. Anybody care to translate the conversation?

https://imgur.com/gallery/MW5l7x6

In other news, it appears the recent reports about Chinese and Russian troll farms coming back online were accurate.

The explosion… The missile exploded? Yeah. That’s pretty close. (Swearing in between). Look another one. (Lots of swearing). You can’t even see what they are intercepting them with.

Something like that.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

You got er, given the reputed low quality of Russian troops, doesn't sound like much has changed. I'm actually surprised how sophisticated Ukrainian society is, compared to Russia. Contact with the West will do that.


https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Soviet...Berlin-in-1945

Grizz

Just an fyi, Russia is one of the most educated countries in the world, by any measure. So your “hearsay” and “assumptions” are false.



Amount of misinformation and false convictions here is pretty staggering, but not surprising.

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Russias performance has been pitiful. Most of what you stated above can be found on Russia state media.

If you have followed any news you would see Russia has been pushed back hard. They retreated from Kiev after heavy losses. Russia state media says it was a purposeful strategy lol.

They’ve more recently been pushed back hard from the south. Russia state media and you say losing and retreating from Kherson was good strategy and not a defeat lol.

Russia is 100% fighting Ukraine military. No one believes but you that they haven’t thrown everything they have at Ukraine to win. They may have manufacturing problems so can’t produce stuff fast enough to replace losses but they have thrown lots of high tech missiles at water plants and apartment buildings.

Pound for pound Ukraine soldiers are seen as superior to Russian on the battlefield. Your statement of more Ukraine deaths than Russian only applies if you add all the civilians Russia has killed.

You are right that Russia wants to destabilize Ukraine and seriously hurt the civilian population. That sadly is the evil strategy Russia employs in all their wars because on the ground they fight like pigs.

Talking Russia state media about this Tornado thing… well how about you show a source. A quick look says that is Russia propaganda and that the unit isn’t even functioning today. Also… Russia emptied prisons to fill ranks… an order of magnitude bigger than even if your rumour is true. But alas… Wagners best soldiers died early in the war. The prisoners are just cannon fodder.

However the Russia state media information pump that you regurgitate that this is to somehow protect Russia fails because other NATO countries closer to Moscow have been around for 20 years without harming Russia. In fact up till the War… Russia was humming along.

Now this so called failed strategy you repeat… has failed because it has not only galvanized the world around Ukraine and against Russia… but it also further strengthened NATO in the region and Sweden and Finland have now asked to join.

Russia’s GDP is larger than Ukraine but Russia’s is smaller than Canada’s. Who cares. With all their cash Russia is still getting pounded by little Ukraine lol.

Russia news don’t list their dead nor anything else factual. You get the news clearly from Russian state sources but everyone knows they are lying and 100% controlled by Putin. All independent media were closed, arrested or fled the country.

You state Russia has lost little equipment or people but that doesn’t hold any water. They lost so many that forced recruitment happened. That… doesn’t sound like the strategy for the war has gone well.

It also doesn’t take much to look and see how much high tech stuff Russia has. But on the battlefield it appears very little, poorly performed and rashly used.

If anything the Russian military wants from being feared to being laughed at around the world. They aren’t fighting NATO nor the US… they are fighting Ukraine and Ukraine is now winning the battles and Russia is retreating.

If this was a conventional battle against the west… very clearly Russia would have their asses handed to them.

But alas… your use of Russian state media as a prime source… and spouting the rhetoric that poor Russia isn’t fighting Ukraine but instead fighting all of NATO which is why they are running away… is the most sad case for any excuse because Russia stupidly attacked Ukraine and now whining that they can’t win and making excuses is like a toddler crying at the store cause momma won’t buy them a tonka toy.

I don't follow Russian state media. Nor do I have a dog in this fight. Like I said, I just follow random Telegram channels that post tons of video (etc.). I also don't have a tabloid-style understanding of the world, so that helps.

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

No body dropped any discussions. The atrocities have been recorded and they have just moved onto the next one. Sadly it doesn’t appear to one off and unusual behaviour for the Russian army. Like you’ve said before… their idea of warfare isn’t to fight the Ukraine army but rather attack the civilians and hope they ask the army to surrender and stop their suffering.

The civilians know the suffering under Russian control would be far worse. Hence Ukraine is fighting with passion and conviction.

If you look at the timing, the Bucha story was unravelling and then the strike on the Kramatorsk railway station happened to re-focus the West on Russia's villainy. The bum-rush into Kupiansk happened on the eve of a NATO summit discussing further aid to Ukraine. And so on. All PR and theatre.

[TheIceTitan]

Yeah, Ukraine is beating Russia all by itself:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/17/p...ine/index.html

Also, apparently, the Ukrainian military is better than Russia's, yet it seems unable to prevent Russia from permanently de-energizing the entire country:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...stems-00067750

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by TheIceTitan

If you look at the timing, the Bucha story was unravelling and then the strike on the Kramatorsk railway station happened to re-focus the West on Russia's villainy. The bum-rush into Kupiansk happened on the eve of a NATO summit discussing further aid to Ukraine. And so on. All PR and theatre.

Speaking of great timing, after Ukraine has egg on its face over its strike on Poland, good news suddenly appears!:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63659824

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FortMac

You are a very dramatic individual. The Cold War must have been a stressful time. It is important to remember however, it's not 1991 anymore and Russia is not the Boogeyman.

lol

I will state that both sides in a war like this will use propaganda. But there is so much actual live coverage that seeing most of the false news is fairly easy.

For some.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by TheIceTitan

Yeah, Ukraine is beating Russia all by itself:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/17/p...ine/index.html

Also, apparently, the Ukrainian military is better than Russia's, yet it seems unable to prevent Russia from permanently de-energizing the entire country:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...stems-00067750

That is due to a lack of weapons. Head to head fighting… Russia is having the sugar kicked out of them. That’s very obvious.

Now… if western anti missile systems get deployed… Russian strategy of terrorizing civilians will be limited.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by TheIceTitan

I don't follow Russian state media. Nor do I have a dog in this fight. Like I said, I just follow random Telegram channels that post tons of video (etc.). I also don't have a tabloid-style understanding of the world, so that helps.

Oddly enough… what ever blogs you follow are aligned strongly with Russian state media.

Should give you pause for thought. No?

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

What do they do with the toilets after they steal them?

War trophies for Pootin.

[32-40win]

I get a lot of amusement in watching the RU state media, available on You Tube as Russian Media Monitor, or Twitter under Julia Davis, you think Cdn media was nuts during trucker's strike?---you ain't seen nuthin yet... Unfortunately, Russians don't get a choice on the matter, and have to live with it. The other things I find amusing are the fires in various places, chem plants, oil storage, design bureaus, plenty of RU ammo dumps nowhere near the Ukes, have blown up, RU has had airdefense missiles boomerang a few times, and how the Russian media keeps changing what they call this war, calling the Ukes Nazis at first, after 2 or 3 more changes, now they're on to the Great Satan and Little Satan ( very Reaganesque). Some of it is obviously staged krap, some of it they actually admit some problems they can't hide. It's hilarious and very scary at the same time.

Tons of theories on the Polish missile issue around, seems pretty definite it was an S300,but, appears RU missile may have launched from Western Belarus and actually got intercepted over Poland too, there are pics of a KH101 coming from supposedly Polish NGO sources apparently around the area of the s300 landing, also some info from an E3 that was monitoring the area is out there, but, unconfirmed as of last I saw, other stories of launched from the south don't seem to wash. They are working on tracking the Russian launches into the area now, as they can all be tracked. Biggest size 12 on that is Zelensky, or may be a misinterpretation of what he said about it, as he said it was a Russian missile, which is probably true enough if the S300 were launched, he just isn't admitting to that last part, or explaining it, even NATO and the Poles are going that direction. Lots seem to be questioning if a Russian capture S300 got thrown into the mix and was setup for S to S, as they are supposed to self destruct on a miss, unless setup for S To S. We may never know exactly which is the right scenario, or it'll come out in a few months maybe.
Good piece to watch, is Timothy Snyder's Yale class on You Tube about Uke history, goes way back, it is an actual class he is teaching at Yale as to how the Ukraine came to be, up to 17 classes at present, I've watched 13 so far.

And reading his book called Bloodlands would be educational for a lot of people too. And if you wonder about mindsets, plenty of Syrian documentation of what happened there due to RU is around.

Also worth a read/listen is a book called Ordinary Men, it is a tough one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITMLrdOiH10&t=4s

Yale classes;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJcz...oz_1Mx1MaO6sw_
There are a bunch of references to other publications in the classes also.

Bloodlands; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mZDf0yd9ZI&t=13816s

[TrollGRG]

Even Ukraine does not say it was a Russian launch.

You are starting to sound like the CBC. Reporting whatever gets the best headlines.

[IronNoggin]

[st99]

some people just love to jump on every band wagon, even when most of them have been proven false

Originally Posted by TrollGRG

Even Ukraine does not say it was a Russian launch.

You are starting to sound like the CBC. Reporting whatever gets the best headlines.

[JeanCretien]

Originally Posted by TrollGRG

Even Ukraine does not say it was a Russian launch.

You are starting to sound like the CBC. Reporting whatever gets the best headlines.

Baha. I was thinking the same thing. This thread needs to be renamed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

That little puke Trudeau probably cant get back home fast enough.......

Looks like since the crisis had been averted, he now has a sock competition going with the president of Philippines.

[KGB]

What an idiot! What’s next- an underwear contest?
Why do we have the most embarrassing leader in the world?

[urcayuse]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

ALOT of the towns and villages in Siberia are, well, pretty primitive.

ALOT of stolen furniture, vehicles, and toilets end up being sent by the Soldiers to their families in Siberia, because they are, well, DIRT POOR!

Imagine sitting on an outhouse in - 40 C. Now imagine finally getting a toilet to sit on inside your house in - 40 C.

That is why toilets are so popular. The Russians have a long history of stealing toilets. When they invaded Georgia before retreating to the Province that held the "referendum" for separation, they took all the toilets then as well.

Drewski

Whats the point of a toilet if you don’t have the infrastructure to connect it to!?

[fishnguy]

^ Does it really matter though if you have a chance to swipe a real toilet?!



Plain and simple!

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Just an fyi, Russia is one of the most educated countries in the world, by any measure. So your “hearsay” and “assumptions” are false.



Amount of misinformation and false convictions here is pretty staggering, but not surprising.

As with all information, the trick is to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Grizz

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Just an fyi, Russia is one of the most educated countries in the world, by any measure. So your “hearsay” and “assumptions” are false.



Amount of misinformation and false convictions here is pretty staggering, but not surprising.

Over the years I had to interview a few grads of some of there university programs . There education was far bellow the standards we have here.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

Over the years I had to interview a few grads of some of there university programs . There education was far bellow the standards we have here.

Lol, it depends if they earned their diplomas or purchased them,
With a corruption all over the place and especially in a places away from major centres like Moscow or St. Petersburg, it was a very common practice to just buy a diploma with a minimum attendance of the university.
People who actually studied there and earned their degrees will be on par with the western world or even higher.
I can tell you one thing- the school education in Russia(or in a former USSR - that’s the one I’m very familiar with) is way more superior than here. In grade 5 you can ask the kid to name any world capital and he will be able to answer. Here I had to lock my daughter in her room for two days before she learned that!

[ctd]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Just an fyi, Russia is one of the most educated countries in the world, by any measure. So your “hearsay” and “assumptions” are false.



Amount of misinformation and false convictions here is pretty staggering, but not surprising.

Yet they are one of the most unskilled Tradesmen populations in the industrialized nations. Hence why their modern Military could not build on mass their modern equipment. Focusing on higher education for a few did not do them well to keep up manufacturing production.
They want to unite the former USSR so they can have the industrial might they once had. It won't happen because their corrupt ways are seen obsolete now.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by KGB

Lol, it depends if they earned their diplomas or purchased them,
With a corruption all over the place and especially in a places away from major centres like Moscow or St. Petersburg, it was a very common practice to just buy a diploma with a minimum attendance of the university.
People who actually studied there and earned their degrees will be on par with the western world or even higher.
I can tell you one thing- the school education in Russia(or in a former USSR - that’s the one I’m very familiar with) is way more superior than here. In grade 5 you can ask the kid to name any world capital and he will be able to answer. Here I had to lock my daughter in her room for two days before she learned that!

Yes. Their engineering and craftsmanship on farm machinery and automobiles give you an idea of the Russian ability. Ever wonder why they use North American equipment.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

Yes. Their engineering and craftsmanship on farm machinery and automobiles give you an idea of the Russian ability. Ever wonder why they use North American equipment.

We can all make fun of their Lada’s cars and other things but don’t forget who put the first guy into the space and thousands of other scientific achievements. Not all Russians buy their diplomas. Those who didn’t most likely working outside of country in major western universities, research facilities etc. let’s give them the credit where they deserve it.
And by the way, the Ural trucks are as tough as they get…

[KGB]

Originally Posted by ctd

Yet they are one of the most unskilled Tradesmen populations in the industrialized nations. Hence why their modern Military could not build on mass their modern equipment. Focusing on higher education for a few did not do them well to keep up manufacturing production.
They want to unite the former USSR so they can have the industrial might they once had. It won't happen because their corrupt ways are seen obsolete now.

I would say the problem is not in the lack of skills and talents but rather in a complete and absolute corruption. The military failed because the generals stole and sold most of the equipment and embezzled the funds allocated to equip the army. This started with the fall of the USSR. Remember the movie with Nicolas Cage called “ Lord Of War”? That isn’t Hollywood, that’s what happened in Ussr.

[barsik]

Originally Posted by KGB

We can all make fun of their Lada’s cars and other things but don’t forget who put the first guy into the space and thousands of other scientific achievements. Not all Russians buy their diplomas. Those who didn’t most likely working outside of country in major western universities, research facilities etc. let’s give them the credit where they deserve it.
And by the way, the Ural trucks are as tough as they get…

they probably launched 20 comrades into space....only 1 made it back. with the huge windfall of natural resource revenue Russia has why is the general population so poor? every country on this planet has to deal with corrupt lying politicians and their lackeys, quite a few will not hesitate to permanently silence their opposition.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by barsik

they probably launched 20 comrades into space....only 1 made it back. with the huge windfall of natural resource revenue Russia has why is the general population so poor? every country on this planet has to deal with corrupt lying politicians and their lackeys, quite a few will not hesitate to permanently silence their opposition.

You know why. Because the oligarchs who own the resource sector are only paying bare minimums to the workers. Because taxes collected and distributed to the middle of nowhere villages are stolen by the local beurocrats and nobody gives two poops about people. No different than some loaded with diamonds African country…

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by KGB

Lol, it depends if they earned their diplomas or purchased them,
With a corruption all over the place and especially in a places away from major centres like Moscow or St. Petersburg, it was a very common practice to just buy a diploma with a minimum attendance of the university.
People who actually studied there and earned their degrees will be on par with the western world or even higher.
I can tell you one thing- the school education in Russia(or in a former USSR - that’s the one I’m very familiar with) is way more superior than here. In grade 5 you can ask the kid to name any world capital and he will be able to answer. Here I had to lock my daughter in her room for two days before she learned that!

I'm no education expert but if you think one's ability to knock off some world capital is a decent measure of how advanced a countries education ranking is I think you need to revisit your criteria. If my daughter comes out of school and the most noticeable thing is she can name some cities I would be pretty disappointed.

On the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) test which rank students at 15 years old in 2018 Russia typically was ranked low 30's in the countries tests while Canada is ranked anywhere from 12-6. And this PISA test is testing problems solving and cognition, IMO what should be measured. Russia by world standards is not bottom tier but I think your a bit off if you think they have a better overall education system. Hopefully some of the educators on here can back me up. I know PISA is not the be all and end all but it does paint somewhat of a picture.

[bessiedog]

PISA is a pretty commonly accepted international measurement of students reading, math and science skills.

Last one I know of was done in 2019 before Covid.

Alberta pays to have its results separated from Canadas as a whole.
World ranking I think we’re top 3 reading

5 science
8 math

Something like that, I’m not sure.