Non res hunting for draws in Alberta.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

I am going to try and get the numbers on the draws... I agree with what you are saying.That is always the problem to many bad apple ruin it for us all. I see way more abuse then good.I also think that anybody should be able to come hunt our wt,moose and bear under the host program.Just not the high priority draws just like what they did with moose on the praires and the south.

Funny thing is, although I have heard of a few 'rumors' here and there and the odd person on here looking to 'stretch' the rules, I have yet to see or know of a blatant abuse of the system (or I would report it as I'm guessing you have if you've seen more abuse than good). All the circumstances I've actually experienced have been friends or family enjoying a good time hunting. Cant wait to bring my buddy out here and knock over a big whitetail for him or do a prairie mulie hunt.

I guess the real key is that there are two seperate issues at hand. I really think the abuse is a minor part of what you're talking about (high priority draws). Most guys who have been applying for 5-10 years would have a pretty strong connection to a buddy or family member.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Funny thing is, although I have heard of a few 'rumors' here and there and the odd person on here looking to 'stretch' the rules, I have yet to see or know of a blatant abuse of the system (or I would report it as I'm guessing you have if you've seen more abuse than good). All the circumstances I've actually experienced have been friends or family enjoying a good time hunting. Cant wait to bring my buddy out here and knock over a big whitetail for him or do a prairie mulie hunt.

I guess the real key is that there are two seperate issues at hand. I really think the abuse is a minor part of what you're talking about (high priority draws). Most guys who have been applying for 5-10 years would have a pretty strong connection to a buddy or family member.

I know of a guy who guided elk every year for year that got payed,another toldme about his illegal guide operation. A kid that worked at russels for a short time was doing the same and a person whom I took out used lots of people to get a host so he could come here and hunt.He was hunting all over the place by him self.But know I dont want it completeley gone I just want the long draws not includeed in the host program

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

Non reidents that are getting a hunter host... Why should I as an Albertan born and raised have to wait BS wait times do to the huge amount of people move here in the last 15 years.They bring there family and freinds= way longer wait time for a draw for people whom live here.There are certain tags that should never have been involved in the host program. Such as praire elk and long wait mule tags and maybe even antelope.The antelope are way easier and cheeper to shoot across the border(USA).You just have more paperwork to do to go there.Or do what they did for sheep and only give out a few in there own draw(percentage based) Like arizona does for non residents.I also feel that if you have the animal in your own province and do not alow people to come hunt in your province then you should not hunt ours(sask)I know there are lots of people that have family from all over. So lets hear from you. sofar the poll says bye-bye to long wait draws to non residents.

Probably well worth checking some facts and getting some numbers on the number of non residents applying I'd say. Without the numbers IMO it makes it pretty tough to simply point the finger at hunter hosted non residents as being the cause of the long draw wait times. I'm sure there are a number of reasons - supply & demand, hunter hosted applicants, tags allocated to outfitters etc. - they will all contribute.

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

I know of a guy who guided elk every year for year that got payed,another toldme about his illegal guide operation. A kid that worked at russels for a short time was doing the same and a person whom I took out used lots of people to get a host so he could come here and hunt.He was hunting all over the place by him self.But know I dont want it completeley gone I just want the long draws not includeed in the host program

If this indeed happened did you report these people? Sounds like more of a resident issue as you've described it.

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Sounds like more of a resident issue as you've described it.

X2

[Gilly]

i come to alberta to hunt for one species only. i sure dont take it for granted because without the hunter host it wouldnt b possible. Now as a sask resident i really dont have a problem with albertans comin to hunt. i dont feel the need to apply for your guys draws because i have pretty much what i need at home here and i dont hunt sheep.

gilly

[Drop_Tine]

Originally Posted by Gilly

i come to alberta to hunt for one species only. i sure dont take it for granted because without the hunter host it wouldnt b possible. Now as a sask resident i really dont have a problem with albertans comin to hunt. i dont feel the need to apply for your guys draws because i have pretty much what i need at home here and i dont hunt sheep.

gilly

I don't think MOST albertans have problem with NRH ..... It's just it pretty much a free for all for NRH to hunt in Alberta and they can hunt MOST species.... Where as other provinces only allow NRH's to hunt a few species for a specified time period....example Sask only allows NRH to hunt white-Tail for one week this year the dates are nov25 -30 and there NOW is a draw required, NRH can also hunt black bear..... No mule deer, elk, antelope ect,ect.... Most albertans including myself feel there should be some sort of RESTRICTION put on the NRH ... Not to totally stop the NRH in Alberta for reasons stated in other post . I guess this is just my take on things .

[j m]

I didn't vote in the poll as I didn't 100% agree with any of the choices. I agree that we should have NR draws, but only for wmu's that are a general tag for residents. I would be in favor of a draw system to distribute all NR tags. With the access issues we are having, I think NR hunters ( guided or hosted ) should only be allowed to hunt public land in a limited season.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Probably well worth checking some facts and getting some numbers on the number of non residents applying I'd say. Without the numbers IMO it makes it pretty tough to simply point the finger at hunter hosted non residents as being the cause of the long draw wait times. I'm sure there are a number of reasons - supply & demand, hunter hosted applicants, tags allocated to outfitters etc. - they will all contribute.

I've asked for the numbers. NR/NRA draw applications and successful applicants. Outfitter allocations, and Landowner tags.

Interestingly, I was told that F&W does not have the numbers compiled for NR/NRA draw applications or successful applicants....

They supposedly do not have the numbers of Landowner tags compiled for each WMU....

My request will be looked after " When they can".

As a reminder, Landowner tags for Mule Deer are not limited in number....there could be 4-5X more landowner tags than draw tags in a wmu....



Perhaps this question will need it's own thread, but I'll try it here first.

Has anyone ever heard of a NR Draw application being denied because the maximun 10% NR tag limit has been filled?

[drake]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Drop_Tine....


Lol ... Potty .... Well since all I can shoot is WT Does have a look at the summer addition 2010 of the big buck magazine , it's the FIRST story you will see a COUPLE of the " does" I have taken .

Odoyle rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought big papa flint used to guide mule deer hunters. Surely you wouldnt want to take money out of your fathers pockets!

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

My request will be looked after " When they can".

[/B]

I bet youre holding your breath......

[Drop_Tine]

Originally Posted by drake

Odoyle rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought big papa flint used to guide mule deer hunters. Surely you wouldnt want to take money out of your fathers pockets!

Huh.... Please enlighten this ... I'm very interested .

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by drake

Odoyle rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL....that gave me a good chuckle today....

[drake]

Originally Posted by Drop_Tine

Huh.... Please enlighten this ... I'm very interested .

Originally Posted by flint

Yes I used to guide there, but I don't know who is guiding at this time. I know that Double Diamond Outfittters has the allocations, but don't know who their guide is. I don't think that they replaced me. Yes there are some big mule bucks there. However it is a zone where landowners are very particular, plus the big bucks are only found in small pockets. I quit guiding because to many big mulies went south of the border instead of staying in our own province. I met some nice Americans, but I will not be responsible anymore for the big bucks going south.

Flint is WTJ's daddy correct?....

[Drop_Tine]

Originally Posted by drake

Flint is WTJ's daddy correct?....

Yes .... I just don't know where your going with that last comment .... Just curious

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by drake

Flint is WTJ's daddy correct?....

You are 100% Correct....My Father did guide americans for about a 4 year period in his life,2006 being the last year if memory serves me right.We all make mistakes in life and as you can tell from his old post above, he regrets it,even to this day!

Do you hunt with your Daddy?

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I've asked for the numbers. NR/NRA draw applications and successful applicants. Outfitter allocations, and Landowner tags.

Interestingly, I was told that F&W does not have the numbers compiled for NR/NRA draw applications or successful applicants....

They supposedly do not have the numbers of Landowner tags compiled for each WMU....

My request will be looked after " When they can".

As a reminder, Landowner tags for Mule Deer are not limited in number....there could be 4-5X more landowner tags than draw tags in a wmu....


Perhaps this question will need it's own thread, but I'll try it here first.

Has anyone ever heard of a NR Draw application being denied because the maximun 10% NR tag limit has been filled?

Careful with the speculation of land owners tags issued...

[getatmewolf]

it hurts me to say but SASKATCHEWAN HAS GOT IT RIGHT. i cant go there and hunt anything but WT and bear and i think it should be the same here. mule deer populations and quality have taken a nose dive here in southern alberta and its taking longer and longer to draw a tag where you MIGHT see a good mature critter that past years were a dime a dozen. this is me being a greedy albertan, but it is no different than someone in sask. it kills me to look at the ugly mug of Jeff Schlacter in big buck magazine year after year with another big alberta mule deer and his other trophy sask muley he also managed to take.

that being said hunts with family from out of province are a good thing that would still happen with black bear and white tail. just my 2cents

[Drop_Tine]

Originally Posted by getatmewolf

it hurts me to say but SASKATCHEWAN HAS GOT IT RIGHT. i cant go there and hunt anything but WT and bear and i think it should be the same here. mule deer populations and quality have taken a nose dive here in southern alberta and its taking longer and longer to draw a tag where you MIGHT see a good mature critter that past years were a dime a dozen. this is me being a greedy albertan, but it is no different than someone in sask. it kills me to look at the ugly mug of Jeff Schlacter in big buck magazine year after year with another big alberta mule deer and his other trophy sask muley he also managed to take.

that being said hunts with family from out of province are a good thing that would still happen with black bear and white tail. just my 2cents

Agreed !!!!!! 100%

As far as I know, Alberta is the only province or territory where a non-resident can apply in limited entry draws that residents also participate in. It does seem weird that we are so liberal with these tags.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Probably well worth checking some facts and getting some numbers on the number of non residents applying I'd say. Without the numbers IMO it makes it pretty tough to simply point the finger at hunter hosted non residents as being the cause of the long draw wait times. I'm sure there are a number of reasons - supply & demand, hunter hosted applicants, tags allocated to outfitters etc. - they will all contribute.

I never said it was all there fault. You know how many people moved here in the last 15 years from all over. Heck arent you from another province???????? I see it every tag that goes to people from other provinces is one less for an albertan.Heck I drew a mule tag every 3 years back before the boom and everybody moving here. Now with the same amount of tags issued I am now a priority 4 and did not draw. So it take double the time to draw a tag.Something is wrong.So why is it that anybody can apply in our draws and make me or anybody else in Alberta wait twice the amount of time. I am not saying get rid of hunter host. But I dont think that any non resident should be able to come hunt anything but a sheep.

Sorry if that offends some of you.

Also I reported every one of the people abusing the system but our F&W could not do anything about it.I was told they would look in to it. YA right.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

As far as I know, Alberta is the only province or territory where a non-resident can apply in limited entry draws that residents also participate in. It does seem weird that we are so liberal with these tags.

100% agree with this statement.

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

I never said it was all there fault. You know how many people moved here in the last 15 years from all over. Heck arent you from another province???????? I see it every tag that goes to people from other provinces is one less for an albertan.Heck I drew a mule tag every 3 years back before the boom and everybody moving here. Now with the same amount of tags issued I am now a priority 4 and did not draw. So it take double the time to draw a tag.Something is wrong.So why is it that anybody can apply in our draws and make me or anybody else in Alberta wait twice the amount of time. I am not saying get rid of hunter host. But I dont think that any non resident should be able to come hunt anything but a sheep.

Sorry if that offends some of you.

Also I reported every one of the people abusing the system but our F&W could not do anything about it.I was told they would look in to it. YA right.

Easy there Justin. You are correct I am originally from a different province. You sound just like a guy I met when I first moved here that wanted to fight me as I had "taken a job away from an Albertan". Very classy and narrow minded. I am not offended but merely trying to have an open minded and civil discussion here.

Per some earlier posts you really need to get some facts and numbers to determine why some draw wait times have changed over time. It is too easy to simply point a finger at those who don't have Alberta stamped on their birth certificate and lay all the blame on them.

[ishootbambi]

^^ no matter how you break it down, nr hunters are accessing albertas wildlife free and easy compared to most other jurisdictions. i dont want to see it shut down by any means, but there should be restrictions on the amount of tags available.....both for outfiitters and other canadians. to be honest, i think the host system can be tossed out the window. ive never understood why you need a babysitter to go hunting. just make 5% of tags available for those who draw...no favoritism for those with money either. fairness for all i say!

[Drop_Tine]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

^^ no matter how you break it down, nr hunters are accessing albertas wildlife free and easy compared to most other jurisdictions. i dont want to see it shut down by any means, but there should be restrictions on the amount of tags available.....both for outfiitters and other canadians. to be honest, i think the host system can be tossed out the window. ive never understood why you need a babysitter to go hunting. just make 5% of tags available for those who draw...no favoritism for those with money either. fairness for all i say!

I think you just summed it up exactly with that statement .... Now some how we gotta get government on board .

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Easy there Justin. You are correct I am originally from a different province. You sound just like a guy I met when I first moved here that wanted to fight me as I had "taken a job away from an Albertan". Very classy and narrow minded. I am not offended but merely trying to have an open minded and civil discussion here.

Per some earlier posts you really need to get some facts and numbers to determine why some draw wait times have changed over time. It is too easy to simply point a finger at those who don't have Alberta stamped on their birth certificate and lay all the blame on them.

Hey Darren I am not sounding like anyone that was going to beat you up over a job.You are only hearing shut it all down witch is incorrect. You came hear and are a resident now.So go hunt.Hell take your old man with you. I just stated that he should not have all the oppertunities as a resident.Come hunt wt's. But I am sorry there is no way he should be able to come hunt everything else in the premo spots.Just like moose as an eg.I dont need to figure out numbers. Pretty easy to figure out. people move here and there freinds and family come to hunt new and better things than they had back home(or just different). equals way longer wait times.Every person I know from somewhere else has a freind or family member they host quite often(when drawn).

Like I have stated many times I dont want to see all nr hunting gone. Just on the tags that have a longer wait such as a priority 3 or higher. Also I dont think a nr hunter should be able to come bow hunt our muledeer either.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

.... It is too easy to simply point a finger at those who don't have Alberta stamped on their birth certificate and lay all the blame on them.

Thats part of the issue...you don't need an Alberta BC...just a permanent address...no waiting period...or a hunter host.

LC

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

Hey Darren I am not sounding like anyone that was going to beat you up over a job.You are only hearing shut it all down witch is incorrect. You came hear and are a resident now.So go hunt.Hell take your old man with you. I just stated that he should not have all the oppertunities as a resident.Come hunt wt's. But I am sorry there is no way he should be able to come hunt everything else in the premo spots.Just like moose as an eg.I dont need to figure out numbers. Pretty easy to figure out. people move here and there freinds and family come to hunt new and better things than they had back home(or just different). equals way longer wait times.Every person I know from somewhere else has a freind or family member they host quite often(when drawn).

Like I have stated many times I dont want to see all nr hunting gone. Just on the tags that have a longer wait such as a priority 3 or higher. Also I dont think a nr hunter should be able to come bow hunt our muledeer either.

Never suggested you implied to shut it all down, I can read your posts and you are correct you have not said to close it all down. The bolded statement sums it up best - you have no interest in getting the facts or figures - your posts are based simply on your opinion. (which yes I know we are all entitled to) Truth is without some facts and figures it is speculation.

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

Hey Darren I am not sounding like anyone that was going to beat you up over a job.You are only hearing shut it all down witch is incorrect. You came hear and are a resident now.So go hunt.Hell take your old man with you. I just stated that he should not have all the oppertunities as a resident.Come hunt wt's. But I am sorry there is no way he should be able to come hunt everything else in the premo spots.Just like moose as an eg.I dont need to figure out numbers. Pretty easy to figure out. people move here and there freinds and family come to hunt new and better things than they had back home(or just different). equals way longer wait times.Every person I know from somewhere else has a freind or family member they host quite often(when drawn).

Like I have stated many times I dont want to see all nr hunting gone. Just on the tags that have a longer wait such as a priority 3 or higher. Also I dont think a nr hunter should be able to come bow hunt our muledeer either.

Justin Have you ever been on a hunter host hunt in bc, im just wondering if you take advantage of the awsome oppertunitys that it offers.
Just another angle if i called you tomorrow and said come hunt a billy goat,or a monster vancouver island black bear with me next week would you come, or would you turn down this wicked hunt because you dont want to go to another province and hunt.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Never suggested you implied to shut it all down, I can read your posts and you are correct you have not said to close it all down. The bolded statement sums it up best - you have no interest in getting the facts or figures - your posts are based simply on your opinion. (which yes I know we are all entitled to) Truth is without some facts and figures it is speculation.

Actually I would love to have this info so I can be proven rite.Also walking buffalo has it under control.He will get the info before me.I have requested it aswell. So if there is any other reason that a draw with the same amount of tags every year magically has 5 times more hunters when total numbers in alberta have not went up by 5 times? It aint just one zone either. nany have way longer waits as well.......


Please fill me in.So what do you think? do you think anybody come here and hunt anything??????????