legislation regarding off roading in a provincial park??

[Schatz]

This seems to be the norm lately, sad really..

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Domestique

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by SumoPerchWrestling

once again another guy that didn't read "bag phone".Another part I forgot to mention was how he was grilling the 3 others in the boat for their license,they don't fish at all and he kept saying ,there are several rods I think you were fishing! No they weren't,basically calling them liars,like I said you had to be there,very aggressive and ignorant.

I am not always on the COs side because I know some of them can be less than polite but given the behaviour I have seen from you on just this thread I think I can see why he might have been pretty aggressive with you. Think I might get the same way given the Tude you exhibit.

I DID read bag phone. Doesn't mean a regular phone shouldn't work. Mine does very well when I am at Carson. On top of that, analogue hasn't been an active phone system for many years so if it was an actual bag phone just how many years ago did this happen. If you are still that POed about something that happened years ago you might want to try therapy.

[88thunderbird]

Last summer I parked west of sibbald road . Backed in my Suv behind a cluster of tree's , Took my kid and neighbors dog for a walk . came back and had some grub. A friendly CO came up to us and had a friendly conversation about the day and got to talking about ruger 22/45 and how we both had one and I was explaining how to take down to clean . He told me it was a good idea to park my vehicle out of sight from main rd from what he claimed was constant car break ins .
Was at the same spot a month later and was about to leave and a CO truck pulled up to us and female CO gave me the gears about driving of road , tearing up forest and said she could give me $285 ticket .

I told her I was here a month ago and another CO said it was ok to park like this . She said "you got a name for this so called guy" . I in fact remember
And mentioned his name . She says this is not here regular patrol area does not know the name asked if we have any liqour in my suv. says have a safe day and leaves.

[SumoPerchWrestling]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I am not always on the COs side because I know some of them can be less than polite but given the behaviour I have seen from you on just this thread I think I can see why he might have been pretty aggressive with you. Think I might get the same way given the Tude you exhibit.

I DID read bag phone. Doesn't mean a regular phone shouldn't work. Mine does very well when I am at Carson. On top of that, analogue hasn't been an active phone system for many years so if it was an actual bag phone just how many years ago did this happen. If you are still that POed about something that happened years ago you might want to try therapy.

The topic was about an exp. with a db f&w officer,you need to read! My post was adding to the op exp.,that's what forums are about,if you would've read I said yrs ago.In this guys eyes we were guilty before he even talked to us,everything was legal except the WIN,as stated I presented this card without issue in the passed.I was even asked for it once to cross reference to our walleye tags.Now I have photocopies in each vehicle and one in each boat along with a pic on my cell.A simple call would have determined that I did have a valid license,we offered my phone and told him to take my WIN card to town and verify it,as an employee of tax payers he showed ignorance.To top it off he said "you can drive up to Slave and fight it" as he laughed.

As stated you had to be there.

NOW BACK TO THE OP TOPIC!

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by SumoPerchWrestling

ya you're right we should've packed up camp and left,or I could've made a 10hr round trip to go get it.....cause no one has ever forgot theirs,if you read,which you clearly haven't I said I've used just my WIN in the passed.Again,you weren't there.

So it wasnt the first time not being able to produce your license? Sounds like you should have got a ticket in the "passed" as well.lol

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by SumoPerchWrestling

The topic was about an exp. with a db f&w officer,you need to read! My post was adding to the op exp.,that's what forums are about,if you would've read I said yrs ago.In this guys eyes we were guilty before he even talked to us,everything was legal except the WIN,as stated I presented this card without issue in the passed.I was even asked for it once to cross reference to our walleye tags.Now I have photocopies in each vehicle and one in each boat along with a pic on my cell.A simple call would have determined that I did have a valid license,we offered my phone and told him to take my WIN card to town and verify it,as an employee of tax payers he showed ignorance.To top it off he said "you can drive up to Slave and fight it" as he laughed.

As stated you had to be there.

NOW BACK TO THE OP TOPIC!

....................................
ooops--banned, never mind.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

....................................
ooops--banned, never mind.

Lol it was only a matter of time

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

....................................
ooops--banned, never mind.

Yup. A previously banned member, banned again.

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by 88thunderbird

Last summer I parked west of sibbald road . Backed in my Suv behind a cluster of tree's , Took my kid and neighbors dog for a walk . came back and had some grub. A friendly CO came up to us and had a friendly conversation about the day and got to talking about ruger 22/45 and how we both had one and I was explaining how to take down to clean . He told me it was a good idea to park my vehicle out of sight from main rd from what he claimed was constant car break ins .
Was at the same spot a month later and was about to leave and a CO truck pulled up to us and female CO gave me the gears about driving of road , tearing up forest and said she could give me $285 ticket .

I told her I was here a month ago and another CO said it was ok to park like this . She said "you got a name for this so called guy" . I in fact remember
And mentioned his name . She says this is not here regular patrol area does not know the name asked if we have any liqour in my suv. says have a safe day and leaves.

See I think this is where the problem is .. every day it's a different story and depending on the CO . There is zero consistency with what we of the public are being told . One CO pats you on the back for using common sense , while the other one uses it against you and threatens you with a fine. I also feel that there is alot of profiling towards a certain user group based on clothing and or type of vehicle we drive , which is why we need to start standing up to the behavior of how we get treated as outdoorsman . Its frustrating cause it's our dollers and our efforts as conservationists that essentially help pay for them to be out and protecting what is so valuable to us as albertan s , and to think that on any given day the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing .. So based on your experience with 2 different officers who is right and who is wrong and what are supposed to believe is the right thing to do ??

[CaberTosser]

Is this going to affect his quest for admin status?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Clgy_Dave2.0

Yup. A previously banned member, banned again.

His style goes back to posters years ago, I'd love to know how many times he's been banned and under what names. Makes a guy wonder what makes a guy like that tick.

[MathewsArcher]

With all the abuse in that area you are likely going to see ramped up enforcement and zero tolerance in effect. The education component that used to be a priority for Parks Conservation Officers has had no effect on activities and eventually the pendulum had to swing to greater enforcement. Unfortunate, but was bound to happen.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

His style goes back to posters years ago, I'd love to know how many times he's been banned and under what names. Makes a guy wonder what makes a guy like that tick.

69 posts in 3 days and hit the ground runnin...kinda reminds me of MtnGiant, or Gust.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Is this going to affect his quest for admin status?

maybe he was already one ..and he banned himself??

[WCTHEMI]

Originally Posted by hal53

maybe he was already one ..and he banned himself??

One can only hope.....

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Clgy_Dave2.0

Yup. A previously banned member, banned again.

Pretty easy to track via hashtags on VBulletin. I've seen some guys with up to 8 different usernames. They think we can't see them, and wonder why they get banned so quickly.

(I'm an admin on a large forum - 145,000 members. There are many tools available for mods and admins)

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Not on private property, crown land in k country. This is exactly where I was parked off the gravel road. looks like a staging area for rec users using the trail systems to me..

s1282.photobucket.com/user/easton57/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2016-03-04-23-43-02_zps15eb09tl.png.html][/URL]

You said you pulled off road onto other side of ditch onto an old road way. If I understand that you were parked on the arm that comes out on north side of road?

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by RavYak

You said you pulled off road onto other side of ditch onto an old road way. If I understand that you were parked on the arm that comes out on north side of road?

Correct and parked , so that if any one else came they would also have room to park and or turn around .

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Correct and parked , so that if any one else came they would also have room to park and or turn around .

Ok so here is the scoop...

The Provincial Parks (General) Regulation as can be seen at this link

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Regs/1985_102.pdf

States the following for which you were charged.

26 No person shall operate a motor vehicle within a provincial
park or recreation area
(a) except on a highway, or
(b) except with the written authorization of the Minister, in
the case of an area that is not a highway.

The Traffic Safety Act defines highway as

“highway” means any thoroughfare, street, road, trail,
avenue, parkway, driveway, viaduct, lane, alley, square,
bridge, causeway, trestleway or other place or any part of
any of them, whether publicly or privately owned, that the
public is ordinarily entitled or permitted to use for the
passage or parking of vehicles and includes
(i) a sidewalk, including a boulevard adjacent to the
sidewalk,
(ii) if a ditch lies adjacent to and parallel with the
roadway, the ditch, and
(iii) if a highway right of way is contained between
fences or between a fence and one side of the
roadway, all the land between the fences, or all the
land between the fence and the edge of the roadway,
as the case may be,
but does not include a place declared by regulation not to
be a highway;

So you were off the highway unless that side arm is considered "ordinarily entitled or permitted to use for the passage or parking of vehicles".

Now the provincial parks regulation also states

28 No person shall park or leave a motor vehicle, boat, piece of
towed equipment or camping accommodation unit or permit a
motor vehicle, boat, piece of towed equipment or camping
accommodation unit to be parked or left in a provincial park or
recreation area other than in designated campsites or other parking
areas designated for that purpose by the Minister.

Which means you can only park on that arm if it is a designated parking spot.

You said that there is no signs. But furthermore to that I found the spot on google maps and there happens to be a street view available for that spot. It is an older image but it seems pretty obvious to me that is not a designated parking spot and it also seems that unless the rocks were removed they have actually been trying to keep people from parking there...



So long story short I am pretty sure unless they have removed rocks and put up signs saying you can park there then you were in the wrong as the only places you can legally park within the park are in designated parking areas.

You could argue it and might get lucky that they just throw it out without looking fully into all the details but going forward you should probably stick to the designated parking areas if you don't want a ticket.

Alberta parks land does not have the same relaxed laws and enforcement that most crown land does.

[88thunderbird]

Now with sibbald shut down I would imagine the public is shooting all over the area now.

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Ok so here is the scoop...

The Provincial Parks (General) Regulation as can be seen at this link

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Regs/1985_102.pdf

States the following for which you were charged.



The Traffic Safety Act defines highway as



So you were off the highway unless that side arm is considered "ordinarily entitled or permitted to use for the passage or parking of vehicles".

Now the provincial parks regulation also states



Which means you can only park on that arm if it is a designated parking spot.

You said that there is no signs. But furthermore to that I found the spot on google maps and there happens to be a street view available for that spot. It is an older image but it seems pretty obvious to me that is not a designated parking spot and it also seems that unless the rocks were removed they have actually been trying to keep people from parking there...



So long story short I am pretty sure unless they have removed rocks and put up signs saying you can park there then you were in the wrong as the only places you can legally park within the park are in designated parking areas.

You could argue it and might get lucky that they just throw it out without looking fully into all the details but going forward you should probably stick to the designated parking areas if you don't want a ticket.

Alberta parks land does not have the same relaxed laws and enforcement that most crown land does.

That would be the spot , however those rocks were "in place to stop people from driving up the old logging road "as per the officer , and in which I did not drive around or over these rocks as these rocks are 90° to the road and do not block off access to the arm that parallels the road.. actually come to think of it I believe there may only be a few rocks now that are on the hill blocking the old logging roads. There is definitely not that many there now ..

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to dig that up and clarifying the regulations in which i was charged under so thank you for that ..

[Domestique]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

That would be the spot , however those rocks were "in place to stop people from driving up the old logging road "as per the officer , and in which I did not drive around or over these rocks as these rocks are 90° to the road and do not block off access to the arm that parallels the road..

Were you parked above the rocks? Up on the hill by the trees?

[winged1]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Ok so here is the scoop...

The Provincial Parks (General) Regulation as can be seen at this link

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Regs/1985_102.pdf

States the following for which you were charged.



The Traffic Safety Act defines highway as



So you were off the highway unless that side arm is considered "ordinarily entitled or permitted to use for the passage or parking of vehicles".

Now the provincial parks regulation also states



Which means you can only park on that arm if it is a designated parking spot.

You said that there is no signs. But furthermore to that I found the spot on google maps and there happens to be a street view available for that spot. It is an older image but it seems pretty obvious to me that is not a designated parking spot and it also seems that unless the rocks were removed they have actually been trying to keep people from parking there...



So long story short I am pretty sure unless they have removed rocks and put up signs saying you can park there then you were in the wrong as the only places you can legally park within the park are in designated parking areas.

You could argue it and might get lucky that they just throw it out without looking fully into all the details but going forward you should probably stick to the designated parking areas if you don't want a ticket.

Alberta parks land does not have the same relaxed laws and enforcement that most crown land does.

ohhhhh, public opinion is swaying away from the accused.

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by Domestique

Were you parked above the rocks? Up on the hill by the trees?

Nope no where near the trees , literally on the arm on the other side of the ditch .. on the grass ..

[avb3]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Nope no where near the trees , literally on the arm on the other side of the ditch .. on the grass ..

Seems like the legislation earlier posted would be in your favor in that case.

[michaelmicallef]

So best thing to do is hide the car so no one can see it from the road. That's my take on this.

[Ebrand]

Could be your issue.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Nope no where near the trees , literally on the arm on the other side of the ditch .. on the grass ..

Originally Posted by avb3

Seems like the legislation earlier posted would be in your favor in that case.

Really?

He says he drove across the ditch off the highway and parked on park land and you figure that is in his advantage?

I am not posting this information to rip on blackmamba. He has obviously been doing this for years and maybe they don't enforce it regularly but I think it is pretty clear that he shouldn't have been parking there.

His only defense imo is if there are other people regularly parking in similar type situations and places and not being charged for doing so.

[Domestique]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Really?

He says he drove across the ditch off the highway and parked on park land and you figure that is in his advantage?

I am not posting this information to rip on blackmamba. He has obviously been doing this for years and maybe they don't enforce it regularly but I think it is pretty clear that he shouldn't have been parking there.

His only defense imo is if there are other people regularly parking in similar type situations and places and not being charged for doing so.

As per the hiway traffic act the hiway is not just the actual roadway, but also encompasses the ditch. I am thinking this ticket should be reduced to a parking ticket, if he was within the ditch