I don't want to hijack my own thread, so please do not make it into "one of those threads", but if I was not there today with permission to be there, in all likelihood what I saw would have never been discovered and reported. Just a straight up fact. Food for thought to those who say the land is now closed to hunters due to poaching. It was not just trespassing/trespassing with a firearm what I saw.
I guess the property owner would disagree with my argument above. He informed me today that he is planning to post the land and, since he is away until spring, asked me to do so when I get a chance. So there you go... Really unfortunate.
The good news is that the Fish and Wildlife stopped by the site at night yesterday to collect the evidence and the investigation is ongoing. Hope they will get the bad guys.
So as they search for the bad guys, I will look for "my" deer and will be back there on Friday.
I guess the property owner would disagree with my argument above. He informed me today that he is planning to post the land and, since he is away until spring, asked me to do so when I get a chance. So there you go... Really unfortunate.
The good news is that the Fish and Wildlife stopped by the site at night yesterday to collect the evidence and the investigation is ongoing. Hope they will get the bad guys.
So as they search for the bad guys, I will look for "my" deer and will be back there on Friday.
I'm really pulling for you on this one. I keep checking back every day to get the latest update. I hope you continue this through until you fold your tag or the season ends. Best of luck.
Good on ya for following up with such perseverance, and on the restraint to not take a follow up shot you aren’t comfortable with. Sounds like the deer will likely survive if you don’t get him.
I’ve had my own misadventures of this kind, it sucks. Really hoping you put him down, but either way, you’ve done yourself proud.
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
I’m sorry to hear about your lost deer, and remain optimistic you and he cross paths again very soon. It feels to me like he’ll survive without further intervention.
I lost a whitetail quite a few years ago, and it still baffles me. A scoped 7mm, sighted for 200 and capable of 1 MOA groups. Good conditions, the gun was well supported on my pack, lasered at 97 yards. A solid, visible hit, maybe 3 inches aft of a perfect heart/double lung shot. The animal dropped, head went down, then a few seconds later threw his head up, stood and booked. Small amount of blood where he went down, dwindling trail for 30 feet or so, then nothing.
Three of us looked the next two days. It was like he’d been beamed aboard the mother ship, not a blink of him anywhere.I KNOW the animal was dead within an hour, but find him? Did not happen.
It bothered me enough, for long enough, I eventually sold the gun; I’d lost trust in the round.
I took other deer after that with a 30.06. They all traveled short distances before dropping but they did drop. The last two I took were with a short barreled lever gun in .357 magnum. Both good sized 4 pointers, both dropped where they stood, both shot past 80 yds with Skinner peep sight and a fibre optic front blade.
A 357 mag is a deer capable round; I knew that. I hadn’t expected it to be as good as it has been though. Leverrevolution bullets loaded fairly warm performed perfectly...good even expansion, neither a through and through.
Sometimes it just is what it is. You do all of it right, and they still vanish
The saga ended today in a less than desirable way. I didn't want to write anything at all, just wanted to ask a couple of questions, but then wrote a bunch, so I decided to leave it and include a couple of photos instead. As a warning to the reader, there is some graphic content.
The beast is dead. He really is. He was shot again yesterday (Thursday) at sunset. Same side, lung shot 100% confirmed, in the open field about 30 yards off the edge. He clinched and ran (very fast this time) to the edge and I lost sight of him. Prior to the shot, he showed up with another buck, one of those I saw him with in the bush the evening it had all started. He was limping again. I think I said previously that the limp was on his right, not sure if I did. The limp was definitely on the left, the opposite side of the original shot.
I gave him time, but I still managed to bump him just off the edge of the field about 45 minutes later, where he apparently lied himself down when I lost sight of him. He ran downhill like crazy. The further he went, the more cracking there was. I thought he may have collapsed on the way down and that is why there was so much noise at the end. But I left home and came back about 2 hours later. After following the blood trail for about 40 minutes from the spot he was bumped from, I almost tripped on him, literally. He got up (!) shook his head from side to side for a moment, then put his head down and moved toward me. I already moved away when he started getting up, but now moved even further and uphill. Needless to say, it scared the crap out of me when he suddenly started getting up right in front of me, him moving with his antlers pointed at me finished the job. Once I moved even further, he just stood there raking up the bush next to him (with antlers). It was way past 9 then, probably close to 10. All I had with me was 2 knives and a rope (well, also 2 flashlights, phone, backpack, bags, etc). He was raking the bush for at least two minutes. When he stopped and moved back a little, I called my cousin to ask for advice, which was there was nothing I could do but move away and either wait or come back in the morning, which I already knew. I waited for about 10 minutes and heard him moving around and then walking away. I did not push my luck any further and went home.
I was there first thing in the morning and went to look. Ravens were still all over the poaching site I discovered a few days prior. They were still poking at one of the animals shot and left there. When I got pretty close to my night encounter spot, I heard ravens there as well. I knew the buck was now down and was hoping for the best (well... I knew he would be dead in the morning when I left the night before). As I got closer, all the ravens I saw were up in the sky. That was not a good sign at all.
Sure enough, when I saw my deer (quotes are no longer required, I guess, because he was really mine now), there was a coyote going hard at him. The coyote expired very quickly. Most of the deer's behind was completely eaten, as well as most of the guts (I circled both entry wounds; the upper one is the original shot).
I skinned what was left of the deer and took the meat that was not touched by the coyotes, which included the neck, front legs, about one third of one of the backstraps and about a third of the other, and a part of the roast from one of the rear legs.
My first question is, once coyotes chew on the deer is it safe to take what was not touched by them?
The other question is, how long does it take for the animal to go septic/uneatable? By the looks of it, the left leg of the deer, the leg he was limping on, suffered some damage on the inside of the shoulder, which was sustained after the first shot, I am guessing. And it does look pretty brownish:
I processed all meat I took now except for that left leg. After I did that, I was told that I should not have taken any meat at all and both of the individuals said that neither of them would eat it.
The last question for now is, how do I properly tag a deer in a situation like this. I was not take either of the rear legs with me. The proof of sex was eaten. In the scenario how it all went down, I was not taking the head with me either.
Congratulations on your perseverance and recovery!
I would have taken the head and tagged it through the nose , explaining that the hind quarters were gone .
As 35 Whelen mentioned, something went wrong there for sure .
I checked your first post and saw you were using a 308
With a good broadside shot that deer should not have gone far at all .
The second shot seems to be very close to the first.
What dud the lungs look like ?
I have shot big deer much further with similar cartridges in the lungs and the animals did not go far at all, in fact many did not go 10 feet.
What are you using for a bullet?
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Last edited by catnthehat; 11-10-2018 at 06:31 AM.
If those are both entrance wounds that you circled, I don't know. Both should be killing shots. I would also like to know what bullet you are using. Factory or hand loads? What was the wound channel like? Did the bullet expand? After all your hard work I sure hope you did a good autopsy to try to figure this out.
Your persistence and perseverance is admirable. knowing you made the shot.
I would stop using the ammunition you had been using. Shot placement, caliber, distance... these shots should have been immediately fatal, Unless at a steep downward angle from entry.
This is the Hornady American Whitetail 150 gr factory ammo. A bull elk was taken earlier this season from the same gun and the same bullet, a cartridge from the same box of 20. He went down with one shot. Last year, a cow elk, a bull elk, a whitetail buck, were shot from the same gun and the same ammo (different box of course), all one shot kills, with the cow and the buck being my harvest. The year before that, a whitetail buck (my kill), a bull elk, and a mulie doe were taken from the same gun with the exact same ammo. All one shot kills. And so on.
So I don't know what happened here. I know that on the right side there were two "missing ribs" and the lung completely destroyed. When I say missing ribs, I mean part of the lung was completely "open". I was surprised the second shot didn't hit the heart because it appeared spot on. On the left side, there was meat that looked shot up behind the shoulder above the lung level, it appeared. The lung however, looked pretty much intact from the outside. No exit holes that I found. I should have poked inside more and try to recover the bullets. I should have taken more photos too. I wish someone could explain to me what happened and what went wrong, and if I did anything wrong here.
Thanks, catnthehat. I did not want to take the head with me after the way it all went down. I tagged one of the front legs.
What do you guys think about the meat and that brownish stuff on the inside of the shoulder? Do you think the meat is safe for consumption? Why wouldn't it be?
I wouldn't eat it. Chalk her up to one of those things and move on. Steller recovery effort though.
Yup.
__________________
The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
Fishnguy, mo matter how it went down ,you finished what you started and the head is part of that animal- not to mention it is evidence of sex.
Did you get photos of the exit wounds BTW?
That factory ammo should have flattened that buck with the first shot, and you have taken elk with the same rifle so you like that!
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
I’ve been following along since you first started this thread. I’ll echo the sentiment that you’ve done a very good job persevering and finishing what you started.
The first thing that I thought when I read your original post was you were shooting through brush after the deer moved on you. Bullets shot through brush are very unpredictable. Just my thoughts.
I wouldn't eat it. Chalk her up to one of those things and move on. Steller recovery effort though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuludog
Yup.
Why not? I am just wondering what is the reason behind it. Is it because of being chewed by coyotes, being shot for 5 days or so, or the brownish stuff in the photo?
I would really hate disposing of all meat if it can be eaten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
Fishnguy, mo matter how it went down ,you finished what you started and the head is part of that animal- not to mention it is evidence of sex.
Did you get photos of the exit wounds BTW?
That factory ammo should have flattened that buck with the first shot, and you have taken elk with the same rifle so you like that!
Cat
You are right about the head. I will keep that in mind.
I have not found any exit wounds. I have pics of entry wounds, I think (have to check, but I am pretty sure I took them). There is nothing exciting about the entry holes though. The other side looked clean on the outside.
Yes, the deer should have been dead on the first day, just like the other animals taken with these gun and ammo. I don't know what happened here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfng
The first thing that I thought when I read your original post was you were shooting through brush after the deer moved on you. Bullets shot through brush are very unpredictable. Just my thoughts.
Maybe the first shot had some brush on the way, the shot on Thursday was clear (I guess that's the one that put him down after all).
Bravo for the time you spent to complete your harvest, we have all read stories of guys that look for 3 hours and then pull the pin. You deserved better results for your efforts, sorry it turn out this way for you but you have determination.
Take that head and mount it as a trophy of your determination, effort and constitution.
I also commend you for your efforts in retrieving this deer. I googled the ammo and see it’s a Interlock bullet. I have reloaded that bullet years ago with good success. Also usually got exit wounds too. Might be one of those things you never figure out. Sorry if I missed it, but what caliber and what was the shot distance each time? I drove 139 interlocks out of a STW and they were devastating on deer even at 3300 fps.
I also commend you for your efforts in retrieving this deer. I googled the ammo and see it’s a Interlock bullet. I have reloaded that bullet years ago with good success. Also usually got exit wounds too. Might be one of those things you never figure out. Sorry if I missed it, but what caliber and what was the shot distance each time? I drove 139 interlocks out of a STW and they were devastating on deer even at 3300 fps.
This is what I don’t understand ,fishnguy said it was 150 grain 308 at 70 yards!
My 303 Lee Enfields have quartered right through deer , exiting at well over 100 yards!
Bad couple of cartridges?? Could happen I guess.....
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
I commend your effort in finishing what you started. I would have tagged him and brought the antlers home. I would have mounted them regardless, in memory of his will to live and your persistence and ethics to finish the hunt. And it’s a good story to boot!
That is strange that the bullets did not do their job on two perfect shots like that.
I would take what I could including the antlers.
Probably would have named him the John McClane buck.
__________________
As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
Great follow up. It's a hard situation, but that is the circle of life. In nature nothing goes to waste. A buddy had to back out on a buck once, and the only thing left in the morning was the skull and antlers.
Good on you for your determination and effort. I would have kept the antlers as a momento of the whole ordeal. Years down the road they would be a reminder to your kids or a new hunter of how much work some deer can be.
Good work fishnguy!
If you have any ammo left from that box maybe pull them apart and check the powder capacity something is odd there. Might be under powered not likely but worth a check at least.
I don't know man. Ive been following this thread. Either you have the worst luck or something stinks. I feel like a dick saying that but work was trained be to think this way. If I'm wrong, my bad. If I'm not (only you'd know) you should keep your future stories to yourself. Jeeze I really hope I'm over thinking this. Either way, I wish you happy and safe hunting.
__________________
"It's better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it."
Sorry if I missed it, but what caliber and what was the shot distance each time?
Like catnthehat said just below your post, it's 308 and the first shot was fired from 70 yards or so. It was probably a little more though when I looked at it the next day. The second shot was probably twice as far, but out in the open - no brush, just open field. And the second time I actually had a perfect gun rest, some old fallen tree or a branch.
I have only ever recovered parts of the bullet once when I personally shot an animal with this gun and this ammo. It was a cow elk last year. She was shot into the chest cavity from the front, hitting both lungs and the heart. She dropped where she was standing before I could even see that. The bullet had much longer ways to travel that time and I found the jacket right under the skin while skinning, if I recall correctly. She was shot at about 250 yards. I don't know much about bullets, but I understand that it did what it was supposed to do. And it seems that's what happened every other time.
(It is weird that I still have it and I knew exactly where it was to take the photo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMX
If you have any ammo left from that box maybe pull them apart and check the powder capacity something is odd there. Might be under powered not likely but worth a check at least.
The last cartridge from the box was used on that coyote in the photo. I don't really know what a round like this is supposed to do to a coyote, but I am assuming it worked like it is supposed to. It pretty much sliced him in half:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramonmark
I don't know man. Ive been following this thread. Either you have the worst luck or something stinks. I feel like a dick saying that but work was trained be to think this way. If I'm wrong, my bad. If I'm not (only you'd know) you should keep your future stories to yourself. Jeeze I really hope I'm over thinking this. Either way, I wish you happy and safe hunting.
Fair enough, it probably does stink to the point that it is somewhat ridiculous how the whole thing played out. If you can PM me or reply otherwise about the "only I would know" part, I would appreciate it and will try to reply to the best of my abilities.
Also, it is not really a story, or was not meant to be one, anyway. Thanks for the advice though, I just might keep the future "stories" to myself.
Since you have been following the thread, it would be nice to hear from you after my first post, when I was actually looking for help.
Happy and safe hunting to you as well!
After consulting with my wife, we decided to keep the meat and I processed the remaining leg as well. In total, it came to about 13 kg, net. Not much from a buck this size. Also, I may go back and get the head as well.
Linear Mode
