A situation on Sunday - Page 3

rogo · #61 12-02-2014, 12:49 PM

Let me introduce a new idea to people here because I do get tired of the so called "un-ethical" hunt.

Calling this guy unethical is in bad taste. Here's why:

There are clear family traits of unethical in hunting. Here are a few examples: Shooting at an unreasonable distance, using a rifle that is clearly too small of a calibre, and arguably shooting a mother knowing the off spring will soon die. Most importantly we can all agree that shooting and animal should be for the purpose of collecting as much as we can from hunt.

What people are confusing is hunting styles, with hunting ethics which is why we need to be open to more ways to harvest the animal.

Example:

Not everyone has the time to get all geared up, wake up at 4:00 am, sit for 3 hrs in expensive gear, wait for an animal to walk by in a remote area, and then harvest the meat.

Again, not everyone has the ability to walk 4 miles over hills stalking an animal and in the purest definition - hunt the animal down.

Some hunters have physical limitations, some have time constraints, some can't afford expensive scopes, other may simply not enjoy sitting in the cold.

More importantly, some hunters are trying to provide for the family's and look at the animals as a way to supply probably the healthiest meat on the planet.

So before we condemn this hunter, call him unehtical, and worst of all think " I'm going to stop his hunt because his tactics don't align with mine " -

Was the hunter being the safe ? Probably
Is the hunter drawing attention to killing an animal by doing it by a highway ? Of course
Could that have bad press for hunters? It could.
Whats my role in this ? Nothing. Because you aren't the law, and his hunting style isn't required to align 100% with yours.

Stop and think, Although I don't hunt like that, maybe there is a reason he is doing it. Moreover, maybe I should allow for other styles of hunting, even if I don't agree with them. Especially if they are legal and ethical.

58thecat · #62 12-02-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Yup, I am not happy when people make unsubstantiated claims putting hunters into a bad light, especially when they do this simply to save face from thier own dumb comment.

You have no idea if there was anything unsafe with the event being discussed. You should be ashamed for saying it was....

"We did charge the person under the Wildlife Act for discharging his firearm on the road"

Not a hunter, criminal, a hunter would have known better!

Okotokian · #63 12-02-2014, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58thecat

"We did charge the person under the Wildlife Act for discharging his firearm on the road"

Not a hunter, criminal, a hunter would have known better!

OMG. YOU said it was legal. Are you a hunter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Yeah legal but I hate that style...

Burying yourself now cat. Give it up and have a beer.

praire hunter · #64 12-02-2014, 01:39 PM

I would think that all the vehicles stopping along the hiway would be more of a safety concern, than some guy using the fence to steady him self.

Kurt505 · #65 12-02-2014, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58thecat

"We did charge the person under the Wildlife Act for discharging his firearm on the road"

Not a hunter, criminal, a hunter would have known better!

Hearsay!

I'm not buying the storey so far. Too many facts missing.

58thecat · #66 12-02-2014, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian

OMG. YOU said it was legal. Are you a hunter?

Burying yourself now cat. Give it up and have a beer.

OK, Beer it is, you buying?

walking buffalo · #67 12-02-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Hearsay!

I'm not buying the storey so far. Too many facts missing.

And IF there were charges laid and IF they were shooting from the fenceline, I hope that those charged seek their day in court.

Have the retired f&w officer testify as to his interpretation and previous enforcement of the law.....

gitrdun · #68 12-02-2014, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I have a friend who is a high ranking F&W officer, unless the alleged perp admitted to shooting off the road (from the road surface), it's extremely hard to be charged with it. The same friend told me it is legal to shoot from the fence line. I will admit I never specified which road the fence line was bordering, I'll ask him about it tho.

You left out the part of the story where you seen them shooting then called F&W.

What's his name?

Kurt505 · #69 12-02-2014, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitrdun

What's his name?

Pm sent

Bdavies · #70 12-05-2014, 02:10 PM

First off, this was both an illegal and unethical shoot. There was a fence line, and the guy was on the highway side of the fence, in the ditch less than 10 feet from the road, with his rifle up and ready to shoot. Reg's state he must be over the fence and in absence of a fence, 20 ft from road. I was personally there with the guy who posted this blog when this happened so am speaking from my own experience.

Secondly, for all the people who are saying "what if he was just watching the elk?" We all know that if you are just sightseeing, you should not be using your scope attached to the rifle...this is why we carry bino's or a spotting scope....you don’t use ur rifle to spot unless your planning on pulling the trigger and know exactly what you are shooting - this is common sense and firearms safety 101. This guy was using his rifle, and the bolt was clearly closed so I am assuming its loaded.......because when you are unsure, you always assume its HOT.

Thirdly, legality aside, it is always a bad idea in my mind to hunt from the side of a major road (this was a major road - hwy 22). Whether it is legal or not, it looks bad to third parties driving by, and generally gives hunters a bad name. I don’t care if people disagree but it does. Anyone who does not hunt is mortified to see an armed individual killing an animal in plain sight. As a hunter, there is a responsibility not to portray our selves as *******s and sometimes where the law is vague, its better to use a "moral compass" than to scare the hell out of bystanders.

Lastly, there are a couple people asking why we care so much about this, and why we are tying to "stir the pot". I get ****ed off because I know the reg's and follow them to a T. Where the reg's are unclear, I make an ethical decision - sometimes this means you have to give up the opportunity for a kill but that is part of hunting - not every hunt is a successful hunt. Most of us go to great lengths to do things by the book, respect the laws and MOST IMPORTANTLY, respect the wildlife. Others don’t feel they are bound to the same code of conduct and can simply 'get away with it'....to these individuals I would say that a guy like me is going to call Fish & Feather on your ass every time. Be smart, follow the rules, and respect the wildlife...don’t break the laws or compromise ethics because its last day of hunting season and you just want to fill your tag's because it will bite you in the ass.

PS – this guy was in fact charged under the Wildlife Act for a violation of shooting from a road. We know RCMP in the area who confirmed this for us later that week. If he bothered to jump over the fence, it would be different story but clearly he was too lazy to haul his ass over the fence and into the field so got what he deserved.

MooseRiverTrapper · #71 12-05-2014, 02:16 PM

58cat next time you honk be sure to pull over and talk to the Hunter. hate it when guys honk and then peel away.

elkslayer132 · #72 12-05-2014, 02:28 PM

If he was on the other side of the fence would you still be whining about this.Hundred's of people hunt along hwy 22 all the time it's a pretty long hiway who cares about the anti's their minds can never be changed.

Bdavies · #73 12-05-2014, 02:33 PM

No whining here. Stating some facts that occured that day, coupled with a personal opinion, as most people do on blogs.............

If he was on the other side of the fence, and not in the ditch beside the road, yes, it would be a different story. The fact remains the dude was too lazy to haul his ass another 20 feet to take a legal shot.

And just becuase we may never convince the anit hunters, doesnt mean we have to be wreckless and create more of them.... kind of a idiotic comment

CBintheNorth · #74 12-05-2014, 03:03 PM

I'm still confused...

Did he actually shoot something or at something?

Pdub · #75 12-05-2014, 03:15 PM

From the Alberta Wildlife Act, Current as of November 1, 2014

Firearms on roads
51(1) A person shall not discharge a firearm from, or cause a
projectile from a firearm to pass along or across,
(a) a highway designated as a provincial highway under the
Highways Development and Protection Act, or
(b) any other road that is paved, oiled, graded or regularly
maintained in a municipal district or prescribed area.
(2) In subsection (1), “highway” or “road” includes, as well as the
travelled portion of it, a width of land on either side of the travelled
portion, including the inner 2 sides of a divided highway, that
extends,
(a) if there is a fence parallelling the travelled portion that
separates the adjacent lands from the travelled portion, to
the fence,
(b) if there is an identifiable ditch alongside the travelled
portion and there is no fence separating the travelled
portion from the adjacent lands, to the edge of the ditch
that is further from the travelled portion, or
(c) if there is no such fence or ditch, to a distance of 20 feet
from the edge of the travelled portion,
and also includes the whole of the remaining area between the 2
travelled portions of a divided highway at any location where the
distance between the 2 nearest points on the innermost edges of the
2 travelled portions is less than 200 yards

So to answer the OP's question is that if he took a shot it would have been illegal for sure. He would have had to be on the opposite side of the fence from the road, assuming he had permission, for it to be legal. You might even question the legality of his actions even if no shot was fired(i.e. was the firearm loaded, what were the intentions, etc.)

It's a tough call, but I think the proper way to have addressed this(had you known) is not to lean on the horn but to have approached the individual and asked what the intentions were. Then enlightenment could have been shed...

My $0.02...

rogo · #76 12-05-2014, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdavies

Thirdly, legality aside, it is always a bad idea in my mind to hunt from the side of a major road (this was a major road - hwy 22). Whether it is legal or not, it looks bad to third parties driving by, and generally gives hunters a bad name. I don’t care if people disagree but it does. Anyone who does not hunt is mortified to see an armed individual killing an animal in plain sight. As a hunter, there is a responsibility not to portray our selves as *******s

Bdavies - This is a very bad idea. Here's why -

I think we can all agree that in 1915, nobody would have batted an eye if there was someone hunting by the road.

I think we can all agree that in 1915, if people traveling down the road saw someone shooting at an elk, it wouldn't give hunters a bad name.

I think we can call agree that in 1915, hunters were not super concerned about their responsibility to portray themselves as hunters.

So what has changed ?

I don't think a man standing by the side of the road shooting at an elk has changed. Maybe the only difference is that he now has an iphone.

So who are we as hunters accountable to that we don't "get a bad name".
I hope its not PETA.

I certainly hope that when you are out hunting, you are not holding yourself accountable to people that don't hunt in order not to mortify them.

Hunting is hunting. It will always be hunting. There is no need to hide it in order to protect it from the varying opinions of people that don't care for it.

What if accommodate the non hunters and only hunt in the back country.
Then that isn't enough for them.
What if they don't like the fact that we use bullets to kill the animals and think animals should be sedated first.
And then the whole process of eating meat is inhumane and next thing we know we are all eating tofu.

No one likes tofu

Desert Eagle · #77 12-05-2014, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdavies

First off, this was both an illegal and unethical shoot. There was a fence line, and the guy was on the highway side of the fence, in the ditch less than 10 feet from the road, with his rifle up and ready to shoot. Reg's state he must be over the fence and in absence of a fence, 20 ft from road. I was personally there with the guy who posted this blog when this happened so am speaking from my own experience.

Secondly, for all the people who are saying "what if he was just watching the elk?" We all know that if you are just sightseeing, you should not be using your scope attached to the rifle...this is why we carry bino's or a spotting scope....you don’t use ur rifle to spot unless your planning on pulling the trigger and know exactly what you are shooting - this is common sense and firearms safety 101. This guy was using his rifle, and the bolt was clearly closed so I am assuming its loaded.......because when you are unsure, you always assume its HOT.

Thirdly, legality aside, it is always a bad idea in my mind to hunt from the side of a major road (this was a major road - hwy 22). Whether it is legal or not, it looks bad to third parties driving by, and generally gives hunters a bad name. I don’t care if people disagree but it does. Anyone who does not hunt is mortified to see an armed individual killing an animal in plain sight. As a hunter, there is a responsibility not to portray our selves as *******s and sometimes where the law is vague, its better to use a "moral compass" than to scare the hell out of bystanders.

Lastly, there are a couple people asking why we care so much about this, and why we are tying to "stir the pot". I get ****ed off because I know the reg's and follow them to a T. Where the reg's are unclear, I make an ethical decision - sometimes this means you have to give up the opportunity for a kill but that is part of hunting - not every hunt is a successful hunt. Most of us go to great lengths to do things by the book, respect the laws and MOST IMPORTANTLY, respect the wildlife. Others don’t feel they are bound to the same code of conduct and can simply 'get away with it'....to these individuals I would say that a guy like me is going to call Fish & Feather on your ass every time. Be smart, follow the rules, and respect the wildlife...don’t break the laws or compromise ethics because its last day of hunting season and you just want to fill your tag's because it will bite you in the ass.

PS – this guy was in fact charged under the Wildlife Act for a violation of shooting from a road. We know RCMP in the area who confirmed this for us later that week. If he bothered to jump over the fence, it would be different story but clearly he was too lazy to haul his ass over the fence and into the field so got what he deserved.

But did any of you actually watch him shoot???

I also hope this person has a day in court and gets the charges dropped.

He was doing all the hippies a favor and keeping the animals scared of the road so the don't have a collision with their gas sipping smart cars!

tam474 · #78 12-05-2014, 03:49 PM

He was charged with shooting a firearm from a roadway.....

My guess is yes he did shoot

Dick284 · #79 12-05-2014, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tam474

He was charged with shooting a firearm from a roadway.....

My guess is yes he did shoot

You can be charged with a miriade of charges, being convicted is another kettle of fish.

You wouldn't know where and when a court date is, would you?

Positrac · #80 12-05-2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tam474

He was charged with shooting a firearm from a roadway.....

My guess is yes he did shoot

So who actually saw him shoot from the road side of the fence. It sounds like you didn't tam474. Who is to say he didn't climb the fence before shooting?

Did someone else report him first? Did you report him and then he confessed when asked by the authorities?

The whole thing is a little unclear to me.

bearbuster · #81 12-05-2014, 09:09 PM

Sooooo..... A member posts that he saw something illegal and reported it. Gets jumped all over for stretching the truth and making it up and questioned whether it is legal or ethical. Ok. Hypothetically , a member posts a pick of a monster animal with a road or pick up in the back ground and within minutes he would get a " nice animal. Hope you didn't shoot it from The road"
I don't know the OP but it seems quite weird that immediately the story is questioned. It's a problem area for elk any way? Does that really matter??
This is one messed up group
WTF