Deer hunting method question - Alberta/Sask

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Unfortunately, you are not getting the point. Obviously, everyone will have their own ideas as to what is ethical hunting or not. The point I am raising is that there is nothing wrong with guys on this forum debating those various ideas. If I don't think that it is right to hunt gophers with an underpowered pellet gun or for the average archer to take 80 yard pot shots at big game, I should be able to state that here without guys like you getting upset. Do you understand.

This thread had nothing to do with pellet guns or gophers,It was about a perfectly legal pratice in Saskathewan.Hunting deer over bait.

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by Morpheus32

But there is no bait hunting in Alberta less bear, are you referring to Sask? I guess I just assumed since this is Alberta Outdoorsmen, we are talking Alberta.

If his point that it is an ethics issue if you bait hunt in Alberta for anything other than bear, I can see it. He may have used poor words to express it but that is what I got out of the overall discussion...less snide remarks all round...

This thread is about baiting deer in Saskatchewan,Which is legal .End of story.Not baiting deer in alberta or gophers or pellet guns,underpowered or otherwise.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I have been an AO member for some time. However, sometimes months will go by without looking at this site. I am probably way out touch with the consensus of members regarding commenting on whether certain hunting techniques are to them unacceptable. It seems that things have been worked out here that no one is supposed to criticize what another hunter is doing as long as it is legal. If this is the case, I think it is wrong. There are lots of young hunters that avidly follow what is said on this site. I think it is important that all members feel free to take positions on whether certain hunting methods and techniques are ethical or not. At the very least it will get the inexperienced hunters thinking about what they are doing. I am not in favour of - do what ever you like as long as it is legal.

I hope young hunters don't start to think a Saskatchewan bait hunter is unethical just because some dork in Alberta says so.

[waterhawk]

Originally Posted by pseelk

This thread is about baiting deer in Saskatchewan,Which is legal .End of story.Not baiting deer in alberta or gophers or pellet guns,underpowered or otherwise.

I not certain what to make of this post. Are there rules that a thread cannot evolve to discuss things not anticipated by the original poster? I

[waterhawk]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

I hope young hunters don't start to think a Saskatchewan bait hunter is unethical just because some dork in Alberta says so.

Name calling is not nice. I hunt with guys that do this. Some of them say things like the hardest thing about being a bait hunter is admitting to yourself you are a wimp. I would never say anything like that.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I not certain what to make of this post. Are there rules that a thread cannot evolve to discuss things not anticipated by the original poster? I

Yes, it's called a derail.

[heretohunt]

[QUOTE=waterhawk;2866198]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

So,... If you hunted over bait you would have a line up of boomers on your wall? Show me the way.[/Q

Hunting over bait is like hiring a hooker, some of us may not have the skills to do anything else but I can't see it as anything to brag about.

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Name calling is not nice. I hunt with guys that do this. Some of them say things like the hardest thing about being a bait hunter is admitting to yourself you are a wimp. I would never say anything like that.

Seems to me you are accusing me of having no skill? Name calling?
Can I not be a "pick up artist" and still use the services of prostitutes? Think Charlie Sheen
I suspect that you are young and inexperienced. Perhaps you are an un seasoned hunter who is idealistic? That is a good thing to have ideals but as everyone here is trying to encourage you not to judge others until you have a little more experience though, even then it is considered poor form.
Idealism is directly proportional to the distance one is to the situation.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Name calling is not nice. I hunt with guys that do this. Some of them say things like the hardest thing about being a bait hunter is admitting to yourself you are a wimp. I would never say anything like that.

To call a hunter unethical when he is not breaking any laws is the lowest form of behaviour possible.
If you don't want to hunt over bait fine, no one's cares so keep it to yourself.
Your not impressing anyone here by sitting on your high horse waiting to get to get bucked off.

[Kurt505]

Hunting over bait makes it easier, otherwise nobody would bother with it. If it were legal in Alberta I'm sure there would be a lot more bucks taken in Albert that would be registered in the B&C record book. Anyone that says different is a liar or just doesn't know any better.

If you're hunting where baiting deer is legal, do it because it will only make it easier.

[waterhawk]

I found the following on the net. I think it applies to what we are discussing here. Battle Rat you may want to read it twice.




Hunting Ethics and the Ethical Hunter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hunting has two kinds of laws.

One is the written law that is enforced by the game warden. The other is unwritten. It is an ethical code or code of honor that the true sportsman places on himself or herself.

Most hunters obey the game laws, but that alone is not enough. Without ethics, man or woman can be a licensed, law abiding hunter and still be a poor sportsman.
There is nothing illegal about shooting at a running whitetail deer over 600 yards away (with a rifle) or trying to down a bird flying over 100 yards high or shooting an arrow at an animal that is out of his or her effective shooting range. It is certainly unethical and only a poor sportsman would try it.

The ethical hunter knows both the limits of his or her equipment and their shooting ability and always tries for a clean quick kill. In addition, the ethical hunter obeys all laws when hunting. The hunter acts as a goodwill ambassador for the sport and for all other hunters.

He or She knows that the town, where road signs are used for target practice, quickly removes the welcome mat for hunters. And the farmer whose property or livestock are abused will post his land and forbid further hunting.

A real sportsman does all they can to grow in hunting skills. If he or she is not a good shot, they will work hard at it and practice all they can. A real sportsman learns all about their quarry. He or she learns all about the range that they hunt. In other words he/she has respect for their quarry and hunts it in only fair and sporting ways. As an ethical hunter, a real hunter believes in "fair chase", and never takes unfair advantage of the game being hunted. This principle of "fair chase" is often part of the law.

On the other hand it may not be against the law to shoot a bird on the ground or a duck swimming in the water or a rabbit in hiding, but the ethical hunter will never do that.

A person who takes pride in hunting and in themselves being hunters always hunts in such a way that neither he / she nor the game they hunt is ever shamed. The ethical hunter treats game with respect both before and after the shot.

That is why the ethical bird hunter, if they can afford to keep one, uses a trained bird dog. The dog is used not to just find the birds, but to recover them when they are downed.

The big game hunter makes every possible effort to avoid wounding game, and if that is the case, all further hunting is stopped until the game is found. He or She will even abandon hunting to help another hunter find wounded game.

The ethical hunter never takes more than the legal limit of game. But more important, he/she never takes more than they can use. Game is cleaned quickly and skillfully and brought to the kitchen in prime condition. It is never wasted and real pride is taken in this because it is a sure sign of the hunter's skill and knowledge. It also shows that respect for game is a part of his or her self respect as a seasoned hunter.

There are two main kinds of people in this world, the givers and the takers. The ethical hunter is a giver. The unethical hunter - the poacher, the man or woman who breaks the game laws and sets no standard for his or her conduct as a hunter is a taker.

It is the ethical hunter who gives a friend the advantage for getting a good shot and who likes the odds in his hunting slanted in favor of the game hunted. The ethical hunter takes pleasure in sharing the game that is taken with those whose land was hunted.

It is the ethical hunter who is willing to take the time to introduce a youngster to the enjoyment of the hunting experience.

The unethical hunter, the taker, never gives anyone an even break. They are people who brag about their success when a limit is filled or makes excuses when it is not. They will hunt private property without permission and show no respect for the land on which they trespassed. The driving force is never the thrill of the hunt, but how much game can be shot.

While even the ethical hunter may never enjoy the full approval of the non-hunting public, the public may at least tolerate them. And as public awareness of the hunter's significant role in conservation increases, anti-hunting sentiment may recede.

What type of hunter are you?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by openfire

yup what he said, Illegal to hunt over bait here…and poor sport.

Here we go again, running down legal hunting tactics for different provinces, when are we ever going to learn to be on the same side whether it is hunting or fishing as long as it is legal?
Sometimes we are our worse enemies which makes us easy targets for those who want to shut hunting/fishing down forever...wake up!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by buckchaser

It seems as though every time I watch Jim Shockey/Dean Partridge/Cody Robbins/etc hunting for whitetails they appear to be stand hunting over bait. It's often not clearly shown, but it appears the deer are coming in for alfalfa, etc.

Is baiting the predominate method in the big woods of northern Alberta/Saskatchewan?

No judgement on my part - just a curious Ontario hunter.

Buckchaser just google the hunting regs for each province. This will tell you what is allowed and not allowed, as indicated by other posts it will turn south quick, whatever you do just make sure it is legal and enjoy the great outdoors.

[catnthehat]

Waterhawk your post has NOTHING to do with you slamming people who bait in another province which is considered totally ethical there.

As far as shooting birds on the ground goes, no I don't do it, but that article fails too mention that in some places it is totally legal and acceptable and considered ethical to shoot upland game with a .22 or a pellet gun ON THE GROUND!!

Give it a rest, you slammed hunters who bait, called them lazy and you will not admit it.
The best thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is to quit digging!
And before you start slamming me for not being ethical, I've never hunted in Saskatchewan, never baited bears, and do not like to hunt out of tree stands.

However I have killed animals at distances some would consider unethical so if you want to run me down for that go ahead, have at 'er!
Cat

[Lefty-Canuck]

I have shot grouse on the ground with my bow and duck on the water with my bow....anyone who wants to place a label of unethical on me can pee up a rope, I got wet recovering the duck

LC

[leo]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I found the following on the net. I think it applies to what we are discussing here. Battle Rat you may want to read it twice.




Hunting Ethics and the Ethical Hunter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hunting has two kinds of laws.

One is the written law that is enforced by the game warden. The other is unwritten. It is an ethical code or code of honor that the true sportsman places on himself or herself.

Most hunters obey the game laws, but that alone is not enough. Without ethics, man or woman can be a licensed, law abiding hunter and still be a poor sportsman.
There is nothing illegal about shooting at a running whitetail deer over 600 yards away (with a rifle) or trying to down a bird flying over 100 yards high or shooting an arrow at an animal that is out of his or her effective shooting range. It is certainly unethical and only a poor sportsman would try it.

The ethical hunter knows both the limits of his or her equipment and their shooting ability and always tries for a clean quick kill. In addition, the ethical hunter obeys all laws when hunting. The hunter acts as a goodwill ambassador for the sport and for all other hunters.

He or She knows that the town, where road signs are used for target practice, quickly removes the welcome mat for hunters. And the farmer whose property or livestock are abused will post his land and forbid further hunting.

A real sportsman does all they can to grow in hunting skills. If he or she is not a good shot, they will work hard at it and practice all they can. A real sportsman learns all about their quarry. He or she learns all about the range that they hunt. In other words he/she has respect for their quarry and hunts it in only fair and sporting ways. As an ethical hunter, a real hunter believes in "fair chase", and never takes unfair advantage of the game being hunted. This principle of "fair chase" is often part of the law.

On the other hand it may not be against the law to shoot a bird on the ground or a duck swimming in the water or a rabbit in hiding, but the ethical hunter will never do that.

A person who takes pride in hunting and in themselves being hunters always hunts in such a way that neither he / she nor the game they hunt is ever shamed. The ethical hunter treats game with respect both before and after the shot.

That is why the ethical bird hunter, if they can afford to keep one, uses a trained bird dog. The dog is used not to just find the birds, but to recover them when they are downed.

The big game hunter makes every possible effort to avoid wounding game, and if that is the case, all further hunting is stopped until the game is found. He or She will even abandon hunting to help another hunter find wounded game.

The ethical hunter never takes more than the legal limit of game. But more important, he/she never takes more than they can use. Game is cleaned quickly and skillfully and brought to the kitchen in prime condition. It is never wasted and real pride is taken in this because it is a sure sign of the hunter's skill and knowledge. It also shows that respect for game is a part of his or her self respect as a seasoned hunter.

There are two main kinds of people in this world, the givers and the takers. The ethical hunter is a giver. The unethical hunter - the poacher, the man or woman who breaks the game laws and sets no standard for his or her conduct as a hunter is a taker.

It is the ethical hunter who gives a friend the advantage for getting a good shot and who likes the odds in his hunting slanted in favor of the game hunted. The ethical hunter takes pleasure in sharing the game that is taken with those whose land was hunted.

It is the ethical hunter who is willing to take the time to introduce a youngster to the enjoyment of the hunting experience.

The unethical hunter, the taker, never gives anyone an even break. They are people who brag about their success when a limit is filled or makes excuses when it is not. They will hunt private property without permission and show no respect for the land on which they trespassed. The driving force is never the thrill of the hunt, but how much game can be shot.

While even the ethical hunter may never enjoy the full approval of the non-hunting public, the public may at least tolerate them. And as public awareness of the hunter's significant role in conservation increases, anti-hunting sentiment may recede.

What type of hunter are you?

The author of this article is full of horse doo doo!!! First of all, there is no confusion in my mind between what the difference is between a hunter and a poacher. One is breaking the law, the other isn't. Ethics have no part in it. As far as this author (and I use the term loosely) stating how game birds, and wildlife should be hunted. That is dictated by the authors personal goals and morals, ethics have no place in the discussion. If legally shooting a grouse or rabbit on the ground with a 22 makes me unethical, then quite frankly I want nothing to do with you and your kind. I think I better take up knitting too!! See ya!

[expmler]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I found the following on the net. I think it applies to what we are discussing here. Battle Rat you may want to read it twice.




Hunting Ethics and the Ethical Hunter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hunting has two kinds of laws.

One is the written law that is enforced by the game warden. The other is unwritten. It is an ethical code or code of honor that the true sportsman places on himself or herself.

Most hunters obey the game laws, but that alone is not enough. Without ethics, man or woman can be a licensed, law abiding hunter and still be a poor sportsman.
There is nothing illegal about shooting at a running whitetail deer over 600 yards away (with a rifle) or trying to down a bird flying over 100 yards high or shooting an arrow at an animal that is out of his or her effective shooting range. It is certainly unethical and only a poor sportsman would try it.

The ethical hunter knows both the limits of his or her equipment and their shooting ability and always tries for a clean quick kill. In addition, the ethical hunter obeys all laws when hunting. The hunter acts as a goodwill ambassador for the sport and for all other hunters.

He or She knows that the town, where road signs are used for target practice, quickly removes the welcome mat for hunters. And the farmer whose property or livestock are abused will post his land and forbid further hunting.

A real sportsman does all they can to grow in hunting skills. If he or she is not a good shot, they will work hard at it and practice all they can. A real sportsman learns all about their quarry. He or she learns all about the range that they hunt. In other words he/she has respect for their quarry and hunts it in only fair and sporting ways. As an ethical hunter, a real hunter believes in "fair chase", and never takes unfair advantage of the game being hunted. This principle of "fair chase" is often part of the law.

On the other hand it may not be against the law to shoot a bird on the ground or a duck swimming in the water or a rabbit in hiding, but the ethical hunter will never do that.

A person who takes pride in hunting and in themselves being hunters always hunts in such a way that neither he / she nor the game they hunt is ever shamed. The ethical hunter treats game with respect both before and after the shot.

That is why the ethical bird hunter, if they can afford to keep one, uses a trained bird dog. The dog is used not to just find the birds, but to recover them when they are downed.

The big game hunter makes every possible effort to avoid wounding game, and if that is the case, all further hunting is stopped until the game is found. He or She will even abandon hunting to help another hunter find wounded game.

The ethical hunter never takes more than the legal limit of game. But more important, he/she never takes more than they can use. Game is cleaned quickly and skillfully and brought to the kitchen in prime condition. It is never wasted and real pride is taken in this because it is a sure sign of the hunter's skill and knowledge. It also shows that respect for game is a part of his or her self respect as a seasoned hunter.

There are two main kinds of people in this world, the givers and the takers. The ethical hunter is a giver. The unethical hunter - the poacher, the man or woman who breaks the game laws and sets no standard for his or her conduct as a hunter is a taker.

It is the ethical hunter who gives a friend the advantage for getting a good shot and who likes the odds in his hunting slanted in favor of the game hunted. The ethical hunter takes pleasure in sharing the game that is taken with those whose land was hunted.

It is the ethical hunter who is willing to take the time to introduce a youngster to the enjoyment of the hunting experience.

The unethical hunter, the taker, never gives anyone an even break. They are people who brag about their success when a limit is filled or makes excuses when it is not. They will hunt private property without permission and show no respect for the land on which they trespassed. The driving force is never the thrill of the hunt, but how much game can be shot.

While even the ethical hunter may never enjoy the full approval of the non-hunting public, the public may at least tolerate them. And as public awareness of the hunter's significant role in conservation increases, anti-hunting sentiment may recede.

What type of hunter are you?

The second line pretty much sums it up. Go ahead and impose your ethics on yourself, but you have no business trying to impose them on anyone else.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

As far as shooting birds on the ground goes, no I don't do it, but that article fails too mention that in some places it is totally legal and acceptable and considered ethical to shoot upland game with a .22 or a pellet gun ON THE GROUND!!

i think it's ethical to shoot them with a 22 on the ground. actually i never once even considered that walking through the bush with a 22 looking for grouse was a bad practice. i always thought it was harder to get them with a 22 and recently i started flushing them and getting them with a 20 gauge. not because it was ethical, because it was easier to hit them in the air than to walk up slowly and hope they don't fly away.

as far as pheasants go i almost find it impossible to get them with a 22 on the ground rather than a shotgun.

i just don't understand...

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i think it's ethical to shoot them with a 22 on the ground. actually i never once even considered that walking through the bush with a 22 looking for grouse was a bad practice. i always thought it was harder to get them with a 22 and recently i started flushing them and getting them with a 20 gauge. not because it was ethical, because it was easier to hit them in the air than to walk up slowly and hope they don't fly away.

as far as pheasants go i almost find it impossible to get them with a 22 on the ground rather than a shotgun.

i just don't understand...

Yeah, that article reads like something out of Chuck Hawkes !
I actually know very few hunters up here that target
Partridge with a shotgun as compared to .22's

Try to tell an East Coaster he shouldn't shoot sea birds from z motor bust and see what kind of response you get , let alone telling s stubble jumper hd choked bait deer!!
Cat

[Gilly]

hahh the old bait vs no bait argument again. Pointing fingers at people that are hunting legally always makes sense being a sask resident and having hunted over bait I can tell u this. If u think we r lazy that's fine. Do I have a wall full of booners from hunting over bait? Absolutely not. Hell I have hunted deer by pushing, spot and stalk, and still hunting. And all my better deer where done spot and stalk. Fact of the matter is it's completely legal. So why slam it? And anyone who thinks it's not happening in Alberta is either nieve or blind. Correct me if I'm wrong but u can legally use salt and mineral blocks in Alberta for photography purposes. I bet dollars to donuts them blocks ain't hauled out before the season opener. Anytime a thread like this comes up where someone has to belittle the hunting style or ethics of another group the mods should shut her down. Well that reminds me I better go check my baits and check cameras.

Gilly

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Yeah, that article reads like something out of Chuck Hawkes !
I actually know very few hunters up here that target
Partridge with a shotgun as compared to .22's

Try to tell an East Coaster he shouldn't shoot sea birds from z motor bust and see what kind of response you get , let alone telling s stubble jumper hd choked bait deer!!
Cat

i agree whoever wrote that is narrow minded.


and gilly in some places pushing bush is illegal! when i found that out i laughed so hard. that's the style of hunting i look forward to the most, i love walking through the bush trying to herd and listen for deer. i feel sorry for people who don't get to do that.

[Gilly]

Lol. Pushing bush illegal. Yikes! Down south here we do a lot of pushes in the hills. It's a great way to kick up bucks that are notorious for sitting like concrete in the bottoms.

Gilly

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Gilly

Lol. Pushing bush illegal. Yikes! Down south here we do a lot of pushes in the hills. It's a great way to kick up bucks that are notorious for sitting like concrete in the bottoms.

Gilly

i kid you not!

http://www.mainerec.com/huntlaws.asp...=92&PageNum=92

10. Other provisions pertaining to deer.

a. During any open hunting season on deer, it is unlawful to place salt or any other bait or food to entice deer or hunt from an observation stand or blind overlooking salt, grain, fruit, nuts or other foods known to be attractive to deer (does not apply to hunting from an observation stand or blind overlooking: standing crops; foods that have been left as a result of normal agricultural operations or as a result of natural occurrence; or bear bait that has been placed at a bear hunting stand or blind in accordance with bear baiting laws.
b. It is unlawful to hunt deer with the use of dogs, artificial lights, snares, traps, pivot guns or set guns.
c. It is unlawful to hunt deer with any firearm using .22 caliber rimfire cartridges, except that .22 caliber rimfire magnum cartridges are permitted.
d. it is unlawful to drive deer or take part in a deer drive. (TO DRIVE DEER means an organized or planned effort to pursue, drive, chase or otherwise frighten or cause deer to move in the direction of any person or persons who are part of the organized or planned hunt and known to be waiting for deer).
e. It is unlawful to hunt antlerless deer during the open firearms season on deer (including the special muzzle-loading season) without a special "Any Deer" permit.

[norwestalta]

I've never hunted over bait of any kind but I'm curious as to how it works. Seems to me that the deer are either there or they're not. In the area I hunt there is many food sources that they frequent.

[Roughneck Country]

Hunting / running baits is deff not a lazy mans way of hunting. If you think of all the time and effort it takes to put out grain year round to get the animals habituated to coming to a certain spot and then the cost associated with it YIKES! Then you are limited to only one spot as well. I have never hunted deer over a bait its just not the kind of deer hunt I want but I would not condemn someone who does it legally. For lots of people it might be the only legitimate way they can get one especially if they have a handicap like being confined to a wheel chair.

Advantages of baiting are you can be selective, maybe its the cull deer you want to take out or passing up a sow you may have not originally had enough time to judge. Is it as difficult as a spot and stalk? Not likely but don't tell me it is automatically unethical. I'm sure in the subsistence days of hunting they would attract/kill an animal by any means necessary.

If its legal end of story, if you want to impose a higher standard of "ethics" on your self go right ahead but don't think your better than the next guy because he does something different than you.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I've never hunted over bait of any kind but I'm curious as to how it works. Seems to me that the deer are either there or they're not. In the area I hunt there is many food sources that they frequent.

The guys in SK that do it seriously feed grain all year round to habituate them to a certain area, after 6 or 7 years the fawns that grew up with the baits will always keep circulating back. Sooner or later on of them will be big, at least that is the thought.

[wildwoods]

Man everyone got sucked in hard here. Don't feed the trolls!

This was my first season baiting bears. Anyone who thinks it's "unethical" has obviously never done it. That was pure hard work for weeks. It allowed us to remove the older boars and differentiate between wet and dry sows. Not to mention a ton of fun! I would have no problem with baiting deer if it were legal here in Alberta. I see hundreds of deer over the oat fields and travel corridors to alfalfa. What's the diff?

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

The guys in SK that do it seriously feed grain all year round to habituate them to a certain area, after 6 or 7 years the fawns that grew up with the baits will always keep circulating back. Sooner or later on of them will be big, at least that is the thought.

Does it really work? Or is it in the eye of the beholder.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Man everyone got sucked in hard here. Don't feed the trolls!

This was my first season baiting bears. Anyone who thinks it's "unethical" has obviously never done it. That was pure hard work for weeks. It allowed us to remove the older boars and differentiate between wet and dry sows. Not to mention a ton of fun! I would have no problem with baiting deer if it were legal here in Alberta. I see hundreds of deer over the oat fields and travel corridors to alfalfa. What's the diff?

That's the way I see it as well.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

The guys in SK that do it seriously feed grain all year round to habituate them to a certain area, after 6 or 7 years the fawns that grew up with the baits will always keep circulating back. Sooner or later on of them will be big, at least that is the thought.

i've also heard that the big old bucks don't go to the bait.

the bait is for the does that are "bait" for the old bucks

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Man everyone got sucked in hard here. Don't feed the trolls!

This was my first season baiting bears. Anyone who thinks it's "unethical" has obviously never done it. That was pure hard work for weeks. It allowed us to remove the older boars and differentiate between wet and dry sows. Not to mention a ton of fun! I would have no problem with baiting deer if it were legal here in Alberta. I see hundreds of deer over the oat fields and travel corridors to alfalfa. What's the diff?

Nobody got sucked in here by a troll.
These people actually believe the way they hunt is the only way and everything else is " unethical ".
Cat