Quality Trout Fisheries in Alberta

[Speckle55]

I shouldn,t tell u this but .. if you want a quality fish lake in Alberta..

1. Make a new non profit group called Friends of Rainbow Trout of Alberta
2. Work 1 Casino in Edmonton or Calgary with 20 friends 2days
3. make $67000.00 to be used to buy fish to be put into SRD choice lake..dead lake (put in lower amount 12inches or bigger)quick growth rate
4. Aerate the lake and do a planting and a reseeding of trees and native grasses and forage like creek restoration(creating potential)Clean lake banks divers too
5. reduce catch rate for a couple of years with a creel sample done to figure Productivity of lake..
6 adjust the planting rates and catch rate and planting size



Just leave put and take lake,s

David

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I shouldn,t tell u this but .. if you want a quality fish lake in Alberta..

1. Make a new non profit group called Friends of Rainbow Trout of Alberta
2. Work 1 Casino in Edmonton or Calgary with 20 friends 2days
3. make $67000.00 to be used to buy fish to be put into SRD choice lake..dead lake (put in lower amount 12inches or bigger)quick growth rate
4. Aerate the lake and do a planting and a reseeding of trees and native grasses and forage like creek restoration(creating potential)Clean lake banks divers too
5. reduce catch rate for a couple of years with a creel sample done to figure Productivity of lake..
6 adjust the planting rates and catch rate and planting size



Just leave put and take lake,s

David

I like Dave's idea.

We have put and take lakes and other lakes with and without limits. We divide the cost of harvested fish amongst those licenses that take fish home. User pay. If you want to eat fish you pay a higher fee. If you don't want to eat fish you pay a lower fee. That will probably encourage many to op for the lower fee leaving more fish for you. In turn the lakes with lower limit regulations will attract more and more people that like fishing for higher average sized trout. That drastically reduces fishing pressure on put and take lakes leaving more trout for you. Win/win.

[Speckle55]

Kootenay Lake (rainbow) has a licence fee to catch and keep fish over 20 inches it cost's $30 approx plus your $50 general fee and you can only keep 5 per year over 20 inches

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Kootenay Lake (rainbow) has a licence fee to catch and keep fish over 20 inches it cost's $30 approx plus your $50 general fee and you can only keep 5 per year over 20 inches

Is that right? So they have special regulations on this lake to keep it a quality lake and they charge extra if you want to keep some you say?

So Tosh, the guys you know travel from Alberta to BC to fish this lake? I wonder why they would go to all that trouble?

And I wonder if the guys that live around that area drive all the way to Aberta to fish our stillwaters?

Am I being sarcastic enough or do I need to lay it on a little thicker?

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I shouldn,t tell u this but .. if you want a quality fish lake in Alberta..

1. Make a new non profit group called Friends of Rainbow Trout of Alberta
2. Work 1 Casino in Edmonton or Calgary with 20 friends 2days
3. make $67000.00 to be used to buy fish to be put into SRD choice lake..dead lake (put in lower amount 12inches or bigger)quick growth rate
4. Aerate the lake and do a planting and a reseeding of trees and native grasses and forage like creek restoration(creating potential)Clean lake banks divers too
5. reduce catch rate for a couple of years with a creel sample done to figure Productivity of lake..
6 adjust the planting rates and catch rate and planting size

Just leave put and take lake,s

David

We already did the build it and they will come thing with Muir. Guess what, we built it and they came and fished and return every year in great numbers. But it's not up to us to do this anymore, our Gov't has said they will take care of it and now we're just waiting for them come through. There are a lot of P&T lakes that are not getting used. Why drop 30,000 trout in them every year to have them winterkill? Why not use these lakes?

[Speckle55]

SRD doesn't have money!! Friends of each Alberta park .. Friends of Provincal Museum .. need i say more.. it cost anglers 26 pounds to fish a private Trout lake in England limit 2 /evening fish .. 2 1/2 to 6 lbs... or u can go to East of Edson and pay so much per inch

[chubbdarter]

you all need to take a break and go fishing....it was a epic sunday

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I see what you were trying to say. However all questions were asked. While I was away for a while I answered his obvious question that bugged him so much. I know some are not reading posts...because some of the answers were written multiple times and by different folks.

There's no need for me to ask the question anymore Sunshine. I think that by saying that you did something that you didn't pretty much tells me where your morals LIE. I don't think that you can judge anyone for their moral values for anything.

Now if I could just get that fella that ran away to come back I could expose him as well.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

There's no need for me to ask the question anymore Sunshine. I think that by saying that you did something that you didn't pretty much tells me where your morals LIE. I don't think that you can judge anyone for their moral values for anything.

Now if I could just get that fella that ran away to come back I could expose him as well.

If you can't read the answer...you need glasses...I made the print big enough LOL

So you apologizing yet.

How about this Dave...

Give this list of poll answers and the question straight up to 10 of your farmer buddies. See what they chose.

[pipco]

Anyone advocating to illegally dump perch into a lake is on the same level as a poacher in my opinion and has no integrity , honour or character.

Anyone advocating to illegally dump perch into a lake is on the same level as a poacher in my opinion and has no integrity , honour or character.

Anyone advocating to illegally dump perch into a lake is on the same level as a poacher in my opinion and has no integrity , honour or character.

Anyone advocating to illegally dump perch into a lake is on the same level as a poacher in my opinion and has no integrity , honour or character.

[pipco]

Anyone that feels the need to justify their statements might have a guilty conscience.

[Sundancefisher]

Dave...you have fallen victim to a desperate attempt to hold your argument going even after losing face.

I can not help you if you feel F&W railroaded you when changing the regs from 10 to 5 trout a day. I can not help you if you feel railroaded that the Bow River, Crow, Oldman, Livingstone and Ram etc. all have special regs. I can not help you if you feel railroaded that sturgeon and bull trout are protected and special regs are in place protecting some populations of walleye, pike and perch. I can not help you understand that your hope for simplicity is a pipe dream.

Back in 2006's census the ratio of urban to rural residents was 82% urban to 18% rural.

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo62j-eng.htm

Assuming that the ratio of anglers is the same...that means that 82% for sure of taxes and 82% of estimated fishing licensing fees is paid for by the urban population.

Dave do you feel justified in saying that allowing some...not all... put and take lakes near urban centers can be considered for alternative regulations such as asked in this poll would be fair?

Saying proximity to a lake gives you moral superiority over someone else is kinda nuts. If by that premise along...statistically speaking...urban neighbours have a much higher proximity value over a few rural fishermen.

Making this argument about them against us battle is crazy when one side wants to cooperate and you and Tosh want all or none. I know you can't respect the any cooperation sentiments you accept and expose yourselves to but you made your own bed so far. Numbers on the poll keep going up...but interestingly enough a huge majorty if not all the newer votes are not siding with your opinion. It is almost like you are working with us to sway everyone away to the side of reason, compromise and fairness.

Cheers

Sun

[Pudelpointer]

Sun, please stop quoting HD in your posts, it over-rides the "ignore" function, and I end up reading the drivel that "he who shall not be named" keeps spewing.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Sun, please stop quoting HD in your posts, it over-rides the "ignore" function, and I end up reading the drivel that "he who shall not be named" keeps spewing.

Voldemort?

[gl2]

sun,

if p&t lakes were taken away, and replaced with ones with c&r then would you not have to lower the limits on p&t lakes to ensure that a larger number of people could fish these lakes out over a longer time period, not just in a couple weekends?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Tosh

sun,

if p&t lakes were taken away, and replaced with ones with c&r then would you not have to lower the limits on p&t lakes to ensure that a larger number of people could fish these lakes out over a longer time period, not just in a couple weekends?

Good question Tosh.

IMHO you have to be careful not to fixate on the assumptions and fear mongering perpetrated by some. You are making this thread about specifically C&R and that is totally inappropriate and wrong.

C&R is but one request for options...all the other options allow for harvest. If your fear is that 10 out of 300 lakes say become C&R that your local meat market will be decimated...I don't think so. A loss of 3% of the P&T lakes just to C&R lakes will not impact you. If you are referring to McLean Pond or Allen Bill Pond then you need not fear. The depletion happens regardless and the biggest fear will actually be the opposite and the mostly likely scenario will benefit you catching your 9 inch trout.

Bullshead is a prime example of a delayed harvest...not C&R in which the fishing pressure increased dramatically and actually took fishing pressure off of other lakes. Harvest was also very high. When I was there in the Spring a few years back there were lots of people taking 20, 22, 24 in rainbows home to eat.

So if you look at the big picture...you should demand a few good quality lakes around your P&T lakes...because why on Earth would anyone want to fish in a lake with an average size trout of 10 inches when they can go around the corner and fish in a lake were the average sized trout it 17 inches? In a 1 over 20 fishery...they can still take a big one home that is worth at least 6 small ones.

The other side of the argument (on your side) was that there was plenty of trout in all lakes...more then enough little one and enough bigs ones also. How would this then affect you with such a small percentage goign C&R and all the rest allowing harvest?

Cheers

Sun

[Freedom55]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Dave...

Making this argument a them against us battle is crazy when one side wants to cooperate and you and Tosh want all or none. I know you can't repect that concern you expose yourselves to but you made your own bed so far. Numbers on the poll keep going up...but interestingly enough a huge majorty are not siding with your opinion. It is almost like you are working with us to sway everyone away to the side of reason, compromise and fairness.

Gents. In case you haven't noticed, this discussion amongst peers has degenerated into a personal battle of wits between you (named) three, poll nowithstanding.
If I can speak briefly for the rest of us that are following this episode (and if I can't then I will say it anyway), no matter what the outcome of this baffling proposal is, you have provided us with an entertaining and enlightening piece of virtual reality.
Good show

Free (laughs)

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Voldemort?

OMG! HunterDave is my Father-in-Law?

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Doc

As I stated, if that's what it takes, I'm game. But I can't talk for everyone, what about the those who only go fishing once a year and want to catch big fish, should they have to pay extra? What about fisheries like the Bow, the Ram and the Crowsnest, should we have extra fees for those quality fisheries? And what about the cost of stocking all those trout in current P&T fisheries, that's coming out of my taxes. I think if you want to keep 5 trout a day, you should pay extra for that. I mean, what's fair is fair, right?

I brought this up on another thread;
so while talking with a couple of CO's or F&W on the Bow,, I asked if they check other waters,, and the answer was not only "No" but they also pick up the slack for Calgary Police for houses that line the river and Fish Creek Park. Then I asked, why I never see F&W at Carseland where theres an obvious poaching problem (go walk the bank from the weir down to the bridge,, if they gave a dollar for empty minnow containers, I'd pay my mortgage off). The answer was that the Bow has become a tourism boon to Calgary and maintaining the fishing quality, is of the utmost importance.

It's not hard to read between the lines;
people who buy their WIN & Angling License in Edmonton and only fish Edmonton and area, pay for a platoon on the Bow who also utilise their time towards Calgary Police Services.

Also, regarding Us & Them (Urban vs Rural),, my favorite P&T Lake is maintained by a small township east of Calgary,, luckily spring fed so no aerator needed. They keep an eye on those who are lining their socks so to speak and the general fishing community don't advertise too much and the best fishing isn't accessible from shore. It's funny because if you fish in late September the Rainbows are an average of 15" - 22" and super scrappy.

Part 3; I stopped reading when the guys went on ignore and what's funny too is Doc is sticking to his guns like HunterDave and really good ideas are being hammered out that don't compromise each fishertype. The Great Debate.

It's such a complex issue and really cool to see people engaging even when it goes sideways. So all you readers out there, start writing your 2 cents.

And Speckle55, what is your first language? If it is French and you feel more comfortable writing in French, then do it. I know it can be difficult to articulate in a second language.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Doc

Really? So everyone that did not vote on this poll wants the current P&T lakes that we have available at this time?

REALLY?

REALLY?

Did you really just write that?

Dave, I lost a lot of respect for you with the whole condoning illegally stocked perch thing but now I know... you're just insane!

We just need the huge number of readers to start contributing to this thread,,, articulate or not, rural or urban, amateur or intermediate, spinners & fliers, baiters, meat & release.

By the way, speckle writes some good points but I think he lives in an area that isn't very dugout and tends to fish on the lakes that we have to make plans to visit.

as for special license tags, I just bought 2 Rapalas that cost me $27 and all it takes is a blind submerged branch to kiss that money good bye. So $50 to fish the Bow from Bearspaw to Carseland weir plus a regular license, no prob. And if it the funds do go into general revenue then like anything, if you can't afford this, there would probably be a subsidy program available.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Voldemort?

you kind of look like potter, now help me find my nose.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

SRD doesn't have money!!

Then it works even better. The average cost to SRD for a raised rainbow trout is over a dollar (more for browns not sure on brookies). In 2010 they stocked 10,000 trout (6000 rainbows & 4000 brookies) into Chickakoo so that costs over $10,000.00. They could change the regs, put up signs, buy an aerator and power it for a whole winter, purchase insurance for the aerated lake and stock it with reduced numbers for about the same cost. All the years after, they just pay for power and stocking (again in reduced numbers) and now they're saving money. Works for me.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

We just need the huge number of readers to start contributing to this thread,,, articulate or not, rural or urban, amateur or intermediate, spinners & fliers, baiters, meat & release.

By the way, speckle writes some good points but I think he lives in an area that isn't very dugout and tends to fish on the lakes that we have to make plans to visit.

as for special license tags, I just bought 2 Rapalas that cost me $27 and all it takes is a blind submerged branch to kiss that money good bye. So $50 to fish the Bow from Bearspaw to Carseland weir plus a regular license, no prob. And if it the funds do go into general revenue then like anything, if you can't afford this, there would probably be a subsidy program available.

Additional costs to fish the Bow, Crow and Oldman would add some money but unfairly penalize those fishing but often not removing fish. It could however be fair if like Doc mentioned there is also a special license required to harvest fish. In general seeing how it costs $120 for 4 hours of golf...fishing is dirt cheap.

I would like you to apply for access to public information for the Alberta Government and ask them how many F&W officers there are and what range they cover. I can't see them backing up Calgary Police. I just don't see them agreeing to that due to training etc. unless it is a wildlife offense sting.

I don't think that Calgary is to blame for utilizing too many man hours...but a victim of success and a lack of general funding. All your comments suggests is that there is a huge user base on the Bow. Creating some quality fisheries and getting increased usage would raise awareness of the lack of patrolling and may spur people to demand more. Also increased usage will help protect against poaching. I know that on Bullshead Lake that people are very quick to catch and report people poaching. The more eyes the better.

It would be nice to charge BC residents to fish our more popular waters like they do to Albertans...of course...I don't really think there are that many that come over...why would you.

I totally 100% agree that it would be nice to have more at least add one post to the discussion. Apathy or time could be a factor. Some may see the same thing they agree with said over and over (so still say it). There could also only be 500 regular posters and 500 rare posters on the fishing thread. It is really hard to get a handle on that. I would love it if the Mods can comment on how many different regular users visit the fishing threads.

As for the ignore feature. Sometimes you need a break from the thread and sometimes someone says something so far in the wrong that it is just hard to pay them any attention. To each there own. He is not apologizing...but I am reading again.

Sun

P.S. My wand is longer than yours...

[Gust]

An intermission has just occured on this thread of greater than 1 hour,, please feel free to refresh your beverages at this time.

- Sundance, is watching "Thank you for Smoking" to get his debate skills up.
- HunterDave, is boiling his mouthpiece and soaking his fingers in Palmolive.
- Poodlepointer, is scouring a Thesaurus for Dummies.
- Doc, is drinking in the new elixir "Devils Advocate" with a BIG FONT chaser.
- Tosh, is enlisting an army of children armed with bamboo poles and line.

What will Part II reveal?
Will HunterDave bend?
Will Sundance want to duke it out at the bike racks after school?
Will Dave make the trip to the bike racks?
Will Tosh release his Huckleberry Army?

Stay tuned for more

Quality Fishing Debate Part II

[Daceminnow]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

An intermission has just occured on this thread of greater than 1 hour,, please feel free to refresh your beverages at this time.

- Sundance, is watching "Thank you for Smoking" to get his debate skills up.
- HunterDave, is boiling his mouthpiece and soaking his fingers in Palmolive.
- Poodlepointer, is scouring a Thesaurus for Dummies.
- Doc, is drinking in the new elixir "Devils Advocate" with a BIG FONT chaser.
- Tosh, is enlisting an army of children armed with bamboo poles and line.

What will Part II reveal?
Will HunterDave bend?
Will Sundance want to duke it out at the bike racks after school?
Will Dave make the trip to the bike racks?
Will Tosh release his Huckleberry Army?

Stay tuned for more

Quality Fishing Debate Part II

good stuff.

i hope Tosh releases the army - bucket of worms, bamboo poles and all! HunterDave can help load the Trojan Horse.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Additional costs to fish the Bow, Crow and Oldman would add some money but unfairly penalize those fishing but often not removing fish. It could however be fair if like Doc mentioned there is also a special license required to harvest fish. In general seeing how it costs $120 for 4 hours of golf...fishing is dirt cheap.

I would like you to apply for access to public information for the Alberta Government and ask them how many F&W officers there are and what range they cover. I can't see them backing up Calgary Police. I just don't see them agreeing to that due to training etc. unless it is a wildlife offense sting.

I don't think that Calgary is to blame for utilizing too many man hours...but a victim of success and a lack of general funding. All your comments suggests is that there is a huge user base on the Bow. Creating some quality fisheries and getting increased usage would raise awareness of the lack of patrolling and may spur people to demand more. Also increased usage will help protect against poaching. I know that on Bullshead Lake that people are very quick to catch and report people poaching. The more eyes the better.

It would be nice to charge BC residents to fish our more popular waters like they do to Albertans...of course...I don't really think there are that many that come over...why would you.

I totally 100% agree that it would be nice to have more at least add one post to the discussion. Apathy or time could be a factor. Some may see the same thing they agree with said over and over (so still say it). There could also only be 500 regular posters and 500 rare posters on the fishing thread. It is really hard to get a handle on that. I would love it if the Mods can comment on how many different regular users visit the fishing threads.

As for the ignore feature. Sometimes you need a break from the thread and sometimes someone says something so far in the wrong that it is just hard to pay them any attention. To each there own. He is not apologizing...but I am reading again.

Sun

P.S. My wand is longer than yours...

In the conversation with the officer, he did explain that the houses that back onto Fish Creek and houses on the high embankment communities that also line the Bow are a jurisdiction (Fish Creek moreso) and the officers are more knowlegeable with the area and already there. I will gladly research this. He did, however, mention that they nabbed a cat burglar who was parked in Fish Creek and was targetting houses at the North end of the Park. As for Carseland (below the weir), it's infuriating and more than likely night fishing/poaching.

I just moved back to Calgary from the Coast and I can tell you that easily 90% of fishing friends (both fly and spinners) hit the Bow for one or two weeks a year. One friend writes me weekly on the goins'on and if you could see where he lives in relation to great fishing it would leave you scratching your head. In fact, everytime I'd meet a new fisher acquaintance and start chatting and then the mention of being originally from Calgary chat would immediately change to THE MIGHTY BOW, and with much envy to match.

As for hits to the thread,,, I've no idea what 9,000 means but Bobloblaw hopped in as did Freckles55 (<?name) to mention their joy in reading for humours sake, and packhuntr joined into the debate regarding "zoning fee's".
I'm aligned with Speckle and think starting a non-profit is a great idea, and that Board would have to have You and Dave saran wrapped together, for safety and humour.

And if you and Dave read the posts again, you guys are actually in agreeance,
seriously. And I do think you took Dave out of context on Perch dumping but that's another thread altogether. (Sorry Dave, it's true).

AND-D, you called me out on big stillwater trout 5 mins from Calgary, and I called your raise and raised you a hundred% but you still heven't matched my bet....

AND FI-NAL-LY,,, emotion and anger and online fisticuffing is damn fine in a very important discussion,, so next time you want to hit the Ignore command pour yourself a stiff Rye instead.

[Doc]

I'm still blown away by Dave's post earlier. I can't get it outa my head.

I'm now curious if there is anybody else reading this thread that believes the only anglers in Alberta that want quality fishing are the ones that voted on this poll? All other Albertan's want the current P&T fisheries we have?

Of course in Dave's head that is an unfair question because the only ones that would respond to this question are the ones that voted on this poll.

[Gust]

I'm not sure if it was Albee (I could Google it but too lazy) who wrote the play "12 Angry Men" but there is enough natural text in this thread for a Play called

"5 Angry Anglers"
or
"Seven Simpering Sportsmen".

Rip Torn would make a good HunterDave and the actor who plays Niles on Fraser would be a great Sundance,,, Kevin Smith (Silent Bob) for Doc,,, Crispin Glover (Marty McFly Senior) for Tosh and Troy McClure (Simpsons fame) for Poodlepointer.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by Doc

I'm still blown away by Dave's post earlier. I can't get it outa my head.

I'm now curious if there is anybody else reading this thread that believes the only anglers in Alberta that want quality fishing are the ones that voted on this poll? All other Albertan's want the current P&T fisheries we have?

Of course in Dave's head that is an unfair question because the only ones that would respond to this question are the ones that voted on this poll.

i dont think that they all want p&t but they dont care for this idea either or they would have taken thier time to vote. just my opinion. by not voting is voting for no change at all.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Doc

I'm still blown away by Dave's post earlier. I can't get it outa my head.

I'm now curious if there is anybody else reading this thread that believes the only anglers in Alberta that want quality fishing are the ones that voted on this poll? All other Albertan's want the current P&T fisheries we have?

Of course in Dave's head that is an unfair question because the only ones that would respond to this question are the ones that voted on this poll.

Schrodingers Cat in reverse,,,

Maybe it's time for a simple sub-poll answered in a post, like;
Are you happy with Trout fishing lakes? If your answer is no, why?