Do you need premium bullets/ammo for hunting?

[calgarychef]

I’m cheap... really cheap.. I buy good hunting rounds. I’ve never lost an animal rifle hunting, some day I will I guess but it won’t be because I used a cheap bullet.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by huntwat

I don’t disagree with you at all. That is one situation where a premium bullet would outshine.
I don’t aim for shoulders. I know a lot of people do. I wait for a broadside lung shot. If I place my bullet properly, any bullet will do. Like Chuck says, the bullet is what kills. But, only if the shooter puts it in the proper place.

I like broadside lung shots, but you don't always get them, and when a big bull elk is quartering towards me at close range in the timber, I will take that shot, rather than risk losing the opportunity. I like to choose my bullet for the worst case scenario, rather than for the perfect case scenario.

[obsessed1]

What constitutes a premium bullet? Price? Construction? Is it the same for all calibers at all velocities? How bout for all game animals?
If your a wt hunter hunting river bottoms with your ranch rifle in .762x39 what type of bullet should you use?
How about Black bear hunting over bait with your 30-30. Do you use a mono metal?
Or swamp donkeys in the thick stuff with a 444 or 45-70?

Picking the right bullet for the right game at the right velocity is important. A 180 g Sierra GK is a fantastic game getter in a 303 Brit for instance but a 150g GK bullet might not work as well in a 300 wm run super fast....

If your a deer hunter shooting a 30-06 or 308 at ranges from 1-400 yds most accurate cup and core bullets will consistently kill no matter the shot angle.
I probably wouldn't choose the same bullet on Elk or moose at all those distances though.

There are many options. Choose the best option for your specific application. Cost shouldn't be the driving factor unless comparing two comparable designs for your application

I might add though it's possible many who use " premium" bullets have never taken a game animal that a c&c wouldn't have had the same results...

[harv3589]

Interesting to hear the different opinions.

I’ve always been a partition user until this year and switched to the new Federal Terminal Accent, but didn’t get a chance to see how they performed on game. I may go back to the partition because they have always worked well and shot good for me.

I have a couple boxes of cheap blue box federal I use to sight in but have never hunted.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I find that premium bullets offer the most advantage at high impact velocities. At low to medium velocities, pretty much any cup and core bullet will work fine.

Exactly.

[oilngas]

I switched to TTSX and other similar type projectiles many years ago, I was using Sierra Game Kings in the past. I did the switch after watching a TV Show on Condors and other raptors in California that were consuming hunter shot and not found carcasses. They took X-rays of the game shot with older style projectiles and the dead birds, the lead residue / particles in the flesh was scary.

I understand that's just TV, but we were finding lead / projectile flakes in and around the wound and channel, of our own game.

As others have said it's cheap to switch, easy to do and seems likes good idea to me.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I’m cheap... really cheap.. I buy good hunting rounds. I’ve never lost an animal rifle hunting, some day I will I guess but it won’t be because I used a cheap bullet.

I can be cheap in some ways as well...but I buy quality engine oil, tires, and bullets.

[catnthehat]

I only use bulletss that I have coompplete confidence in as far as accuracy goes, and there are several I will not use because of that.

After accuracy, I need a bullet to expand and kill well without a pile of catastrophic damage and meat loss.
it is not hard to find a bullet that will do that.
it is also very easy to find bullets that kill well but destroy a lot of more meat than is necessary to kill quickly.

In my cartridge of choice I am a bit more limited than most for bullet selection, but there are several that do well.

The Barnes 150 grain TSX fits both of these criteria well, but it also does not leave copper and lead fragments everywhere in the meat, which II have found often in some of my bullet choices.
I will be using that in my 303 from now on for hunting inn my .303.

I haven't chosen a bullet yet for my 280 that I plan to use for elk next year, but there are several on the short list......
Cat

[sns2]

For deer... no biggie.

For moose and elk? Of course using a premium bullet is wise. The question should be asked this way, "Why not use a premium bullet?"

In the past, I've killed lots of moose with cup and core bullets. Been a long time since I have used one though.

All bullets will work fine on a good shot, but when you need em you need em.

[Dick284]

Define “Premium”?

There’s a difference between a Gucci boutique bullet, and a purpose designed controlled expansion bullet.

Every bullet has designed performance criteria, and if you use the bullet outside of those design criteria, expect some funky stuff to happen.

If you take a cartridge like the 30/30 with its blistering 2200fps muzzle velocity, it’s lead pipe cinch that unless you use a varmint bullet in this cartridge there is zero need to get too far from a run of the mill bullet in this cartridge.

But step up to a .25/06 and it’s ability to exceed 3000 FPS with most big game bullets your care to use in it, you’d better get on the controlled expansion band wagon with this one or like stated above, expect some gruesome results.

The magic of 2700 FPS, is important, as run of the mill cup and core bullets do well on game up and to around this muzzle velocity, that’s why the 180gr 30/06 got such a good reputation on game. Better made cup and core designs like the Interlock by Hornady, and Hot Core by Speer, can move this threshold 100-150 FPS, but after a 2900 FPS muzzle velocity stuff gets very un predictable for sure with cup and core designs.
Likewise controlled expansion bullets often require 1800-1900 FPS impact velocity to give adequate expansion, died in the wool heavy for caliber fan boys often carry on about penciling through with heavy monolithic bullets, because the impact velocity has dropped below the design criteria.

You’ve got to be willing to learn about bullets and ballistics if you want to get bigger heavier and snappier cartridged rifles. Match the bullet not only to the game you are hunting, but also take into account the cartridge you are using and the expected shot distances you’ll be taking. Of course this all goes out the window when you plan for 450 yds and that critter you are after shows up at 50 yds, then you got yourself a situation, or not.

I marvel at the fact that this fall alone, out of the 6 head of big game I was personally involved with the harvesting of, only one was taken with a purpose designed control expansion bullet. All animals succumbed to a single shot too.

Bull elk 40 yds, 7mm-08, 139gr. SST(factory)
Whitetail buck, 50 yds, .243 Win. Sierra Gameking(reload)
Whitetail buck, 70 yds, 30/06, 150gr Core Loct(factory)
Whitetail buck, 70 yds, 30/30, factory load
Cow moose, 125 yds, 7mm-08, 139gr BTSP Hornady(reload)
Whitetail buck, 30 yds, .260 Rem, 130gr Accubond(reload)

[buckman]

Originally Posted by chuck

The only thing that kills an animal in a rifle hunting scenario is the bullet. The only thing. A good bullet is cheap insurance.

Exactly,when you look at all the other costs involved the bullet is peanuts. Practice with cheap ammo,buy and sight in with expensive??, rounds.Go hunting,you may only get one shot all season,make it count.

[Dubious]

Most people in Alberta hunt cxp2 game and some cxp3 bullet selection is so dependant on game and style. is a high bc bullet needed for shooting in timber probably not, is a stout bullet required to shoot deer unlikely do “premium” fragmenting bullets like sst and vldh work on elk and moose yes, stout bullets like ttsx and cup and core bullets both work on deer also. people have this idea in there head of heavily armoured game that isn’t true no one can say if a stout bullet or a frangable bullet would have made game more dead shot to shot. the idea of steel scapulas or bullets that penetrate the skin and then Just blow up not killing game is silly anything can and will fail at some point and people need to blame something other than them selves. I’ve shot 180 grain ttsx right through 1/2” mild steel plates same with vldh and cheap bullets dead is dead.

The guys I know have lost game with ttsx and cheap factory ammo most times shot placement is more important than bullet construction. I would suspect picking something that works for you and getting proficient with your setup trumps x bullets marketing campaign and internet experts every time.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Dubious

Most people in Alberta hunt cxp2 game and some cxp3 bullet selection is so dependant on game and style. is a high bc bullet needed for shooting in timber probably not, is a stout bullet required to shoot deer unlikely do “premium” fragmenting bullets like sst and vldh work on elk and moose yes, stout bullets like ttsx and cup and core bullets both work on deer also. people have this idea in there head of heavily armoured game that isn’t true no one can say if a stout bullet or a frangable bullet would have made game more dead shot to shot. the idea of steel scapulas or bullets that penetrate the skin and then Just blow up not killing game is silly anything can and will fail at some point and people need to blame something other than them selves. I’ve shot 180 grain ttsx right through 1/2” mild steel plates same with vldh and cheap bullets dead is dead.

The guys I know have lost game with ttsx and cheap factory ammo most times shot placement is more important than bullet construction. I would suspect picking something that works for you and getting proficient with your setup trumps x bullets marketing campaign and internet experts every time.

Cxp2, and Cxp3 are marketing acronyms from Winchester, and the fact you use it makes one wonder are you the salesman that coined it?

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Cxp2, and Cxp3 are marketing acronyms from Winchester, and the fact you use it makes one wonder are you the salesman that coined it?

its just a way to designate game categories next time ill just type every game species and weight classes just for you.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by harv3589

Do you really need to spend the extra money for a premium bullet/ammo for hunting? noOr would the cheap ones work just as good and leave money in your pocket? 99% of the timeI’ve always used a premium bullet but maybe that’s just a waste....

I only shoot up to 400 yards, so does that extra money give me any advantage? 1% of the time

Is it worth it? Maybe

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Dubious

its just a way to designate game categories next time ill just type every game species and weight classes just for you.

It’s ok, just that not everyone understands the acronyms, and some folks will then be looking for Federal ammo marked with cxp ratings.

[Big Sky]

My hunting rifles are sending Partitions down the tube. These rifles only see 20 or so rounds per year.

My 'range rifles' see many of hundreds of rounds fired in a year. Mostly Hornady Match now that A-max is no longer available.

I said it in the 'elk rifle' thread; a guy can be picky on his shot selection and wait for the perfect shot. Pretty much any bullet hitting the lungs is going to get the job done. But, if you mess up the shot and are now having to deal with a wounded animal you don't get to be so picky. That tough angle that you would never consider on your first shot might be the best opportunity you're going to get to put them down. A premium bullet helps to insure that your shot makes it to the vitals.

[Jims83cj5]

Any good sling shot with a high quality rock and a well placed hit will kill any big game in the province, I hope my sarcasm is not wasted here lol

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I never posted that premium bullets require high velocity to work properly, I posted that there is more reason to use a premium bullet if the velocities are higher. At higher velocities, a standard cup and core bullet is more likely to fragment and not penetrate, than a premium/controlled expansion bullet.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I find that premium bullets offer the most advantage at high impact velocities. At low to medium velocities, pretty much any cup and core bullet will work fine.

I guess I read it wrong.

[Andrzej]

Ok
why I use monometal bullets?

I called in 2 Elk bulls in half an hour ...first would just jump across a narrow path not giving chance to shoot and the second bull came to my call and stopped at about 60 yards.
Got me pinned in the patch of the bush quartering towards me. I took the shot aiming for his left shoulder 300 Win Mag 180 TTSX ... He falls down
after 30 yards or so.
Once I've got close to him I did notice that the entry wound was 2" ??? this is not normal for TTSX unless... it opened on branches before hitting the target.
I found this bullet on the opposite side after penetrating about 3 feet of Elk..

There are pieces of twigs in petals of this bullet so my conclusion was that it hit the twigs before hitting Elk.
Could regular CC bullet do this? I don't know but I was happy that I used monometal bullet.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

There are pieces of twigs in petals of this bullet so my conclusion was that it hit the twigs before hitting Elk.
Could regular CC bullet do this? I don't know but I was happy that I used monometal bullet.

I shot the vast majority of my animals with 150 gr. Sierra bullets at 3000 fps from my 270.

One of note that is relevant to your post was a whitetail doe that was wounded and holed up in a large bush patch. My brother and I were working in along the blood trail when the doe jumped up ahead of us - I shouldered, swung and fired. The doe went sideways about 2 feet and fell DRT. The first thing my brother says is "You hit a tree". I said No, I hit the deer and it is down. He walks up to a 6" poplar and says "See, you hit the tree." pointing at the hole dead center in the face of it and the back side blown out. I recovered the brass cup from the back side of the poplar tree and the lead core from chest of the deer.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

I shot the vast majority of my animals with 150 gr. Sierra bullets at 3000 fps from my 270.

One of note that is relevant to your post was a whitetail doe that was wounded and holed up in a large bush patch. My brother and I were working in along the blood trail when the doe jumped up ahead of us - I shouldered, swung and fired. The doe went sideways about 2 feet and fell DRT. The first thing my brother says is "You hit a tree". I said No, I hit the deer and it is down. He walks up to a 6" poplar and says "See, you hit the tree." pointing at the hole dead center in the face of it and the back side blown out. I recovered the brass cup from the back side of the poplar tree and the lead core from chest of the deer.

Someone must have snuck a premium bullet into your chamber.
Shots like that can't happen with a cup n core bullet don't you know.

That's sarcasm btw. It's true premium bullets can make a difference in some situations, but they are more marketing hype then magic pill for the average hunter.

I used to guide American hunters. I have tracked more game shot with premium bullets then I care to remember.

I watched Big Mike Coiul put a 325gr mono through the ribs of a Moose at 300 yards. It took several hours of tracking to find that Moose, still alive and nearly a mile away. First bullet when clear through, .375 size entry wound, .45 exit wound.

There are extreme examples for both.

Those who say match the bullet to the game and situation are closer to the true then those who use premium or cup n core for everything.

Yet both will do the job 99.9% of the time if the hunter does his.

In other words, it doesn't really matter what you use, so long as it's appropriate for the situation, the game and your abilities.

That is why I don't take head on or tail on shots. Because I don't use monos and don't hunt with a 375 H&H. And I don't hunt Moose with a 243.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Ok
why I use monometal bullets?

I called in 2 Elk bulls in half an hour ...first would just jump across a narrow path not giving chance to shoot and the second bull came to my call and stopped at about 60 yards.
Got me pinned in the patch of the bush quartering towards me. I took the shot aiming for his left shoulder 300 Win Mag 180 TTSX ... He falls down
after 30 yards or so.
Once I've got close to him I did notice that the entry wound was 2" ??? this is not normal for TTSX unless... it opened on branches before hitting the target.
I found this bullet on the opposite side after penetrating about 3 feet of Elk..

There are pieces of twigs in petals of this bullet so my conclusion was that it hit the twigs before hitting Elk.
Could regular CC bullet do this? I don't know but I was happy that I used monometal bullet.

Pretty interesting.

[waldedw]

Short answer " yes " you owe it to the animal that you are hunting, use the best bullet for the job, a quick humane kill is your duty as a hunter.

There was one of these discussions a month ago or so with guy's toting the merits of light match grade bullets on game animals, pure unadulterated hog wash, IMHO

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That is why I don't take head on or tail on shots. Because I don't use monos and don't hunt with a 375 H&H. And I don't hunt Moose with a 243.

Then there is the "just in case" argument. It was 1995 my Dad and I were hunting Mulies. We were working a small bush patch in the field and he takes a crossing shot on a big Mule buck as he exits the bush. For whatever reason he hit low and broke a front leg, then in his haste to reload the gun jammed. When I got around and realized what was happening the buck was heading straight away for the coulee bank. No option to pass on this one - buck was at about 300 yards out when he went down. Post mortem it was discovered that I had missed by a few inches to the right - pelvis was broken, femoral head was completely shattered and the femur bone was split all the way to the knee. I never recovered that bullet, but judging by the bleeding from the lungs it was in the chest cavity somewhere. 150 gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail. Just in Case.

[saskbooknut]

Premium bullets are a better choice when using a marginal cartridge on tough game animals.
In my 60 years of hunting, Hornady Interlock bullets in 7 mm and 30 calibre have been very reliable deer bullets.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Then there is the "just in case" argument. It was 1995 my Dad and I were hunting Mulies. We were working a small bush patch in the field and he takes a crossing shot on a big Mule buck as he exits the bush. For whatever reason he hit low and broke a front leg, then in his haste to reload the gun jammed. When I got around and realized what was happening the buck was heading straight away for the coulee bank. No option to pass on this one - buck was at about 300 yards out when he went down. Post mortem it was discovered that I had missed by a few inches to the right - pelvis was broken, femoral head was completely shattered and the femur bone was split all the way to the knee. I never recovered that bullet, but judging by the bleeding from the lungs it was in the chest cavity somewhere. 150 gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail. Just in Case.

Great story. But not exactly a premium bullet to the die hard fans.

To be clear though, I'm not against using premium bullets.
I see no reason to not use them.

I just don't believe they are a must use solution to anything.

I also don't buy the argument that we owe it to our quarry. If that were the main consideration then we should all carry an ultra mag or anti tank weapon.

I have a little essay written by an author many of you may recognize.

I have asked for and been given permission by him to post his essay here.
I think it's appropriate to this discussion so here it is;

"Consider the magnum rifle. Logically, it should be used for long range or dangerous, tough to kill animals. That's most of the reason the magnum was created. Strangely though, it's showing up in the eastern Deer woods. It's being used on game that was taken not too many years ago with 30/30s or a 250 Savage. What's going on?

Gunwriteritis or Magnum Myipopia. In shooting there can be no more deadly diseases. When either is contracted, common sense and ability to reason are the first things to go. Symptoms include swelling of the shoulder, headaches and incoherent babbling. Bigger is better ... Bigger is better. ....

Treatment is straightforward. Discontinue all gun magazines and references to anyone named Roy.
Shoot .303s, 30/30s or 300 Savages twice a day for thirty days. Repeat as necessary.

Mercifully, there are a growing number of hunters and shooters that are seeing through the magnum hype and avoiding these afflictions. Here's where progress is helping. More information is available through the Internet and other technologies that lessen our dependence on monthly magazines and the gun writers that fill their pages. Real time experience and feedback are becoming the norm. People are discovering that many gun gurus are just paid poop peddlers.

Stephen Redgwell. The Accurate Lee Enfield. "


There is a third disease. Ad hype-ocondria. Promoting copper, bonded or partitioned bullets as the only bullets capable of dispatching whitetails, sheep or black bears.

Young, inexperienced hunters succumb to it more than older hunters. Ad hype-ocondria is spread through magazines, hunting television shows and the Interet. It's transmitted primarily through the eyes, and shuts down the brain's ability to reason. Side effects include laughing at the advice of experienced hunters, not believing that lead or cup and core bullets are capable of taking medium or large game, and the need to dress in camo.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell

[Jerry D]

Honestly there isnt really a cup and core bullet that wont kill a deer if it is shot well in the front half of the body.

Most premium bullets aren't neccessarily even premium. Bergers, hornady eldx, nosler ballistic tips people will consider premium. They are just cup and core bullets with good bc's

Controlled expansion bullets I feel are worthwhile for the minimal increase in cost for larger game for sure and for high velocity cartridges.

For the average hunter who sets their scope at 200 yards and thats it, practice with cheap ammo and buy 1 box of controlled expansion for the hunt. Check your zero and go.

I just ordered some 6.5mm 130gr seirra gamechangers to try. They are a heavy jacketed cup and core bullet. Price was right. 50 cents each! Hoping they are like a 7mm 120gr btip or the 180gr .30 cal

[roper1]

As long as you're using a reasonable size caliber for the game you're hunting, premium bullet unnecessary.

[32-40win]

I like the notion of planning for a worst case scenario, especially with moose and elk. Hard angling shots are what they are, and you don't always have the choice of waiting for a better one, and there are places where I've run into an animal in a good place, next to a really bad place, that I did not want it running into, and they didn't. If I lose 2 or 3 lbs of burger, I am not going to have a fit over it. I want a bullet that will do what is needed when it needs doing. Person spends all the money, time and energy necessary to enable a hunt, where is there any logic in not using a bullet that you can trust to do what you ask it to do?