Purchase Wildlife Cert before applying for draws.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by icehunter

I know guys that only put in for draws and have no interest in deer or bird hunting. The point is that its a cash grab and before you even go hunting you will spend cash on nothing. If anyone thinks this will stop a anti you are sadly mistaken. But yet some people will believe anything that is told to them because they are also told something that makes them happy or gives them a false hope.

Think about it. A person gets a draw and doesn't go hunting so that tag is gone. A person gets a cert and a draw and still doesn't go hunting,that tag is still gone. So how is it going to make any difference? They still have the draw and you don't.Does anyone magically think that just because they bought a cert that it will force them to hunt? The only people that win is the government because they now have more $$$ in the coffers to spend. Its like saying that you cant buy a vehicle unless you have a drivers license and registration on the vehicle. Of course to drive it you need to have both as well as insurance,but in the real world I can buy it and have it sit in my yard and never use it.

But then they say that it will improve your chances and all of a sudden everyone thinks that they will get a draw every couple years...suckers..

From what I understand (someone correct me if I am wrong) the idea of having to buy a Wildlife Certificate prior to entering the draw system was implemented from requests from hunters. Not a cash grab from the government, hunters felt this would prevent non hunters from consuming a tag. Please remember, I am only repeating what I have heard is the reasoning for this, and am not interested in debating it (because I could hardly care less) I am just trying to help provide information.
I also cant subscribe to this being a cash grab as $28.22 is an insignificant number in the hunting world. One year we sat down and tallied up what we spent vs what we harvested and I am sure we could have bought Wagyu beef for that price.

[baticus]

Originally Posted by icehunter

I know guys that only put in for draws and have no interest in deer or bird hunting. The point is that its a cash grab and before you even go hunting you will spend cash on nothing. If anyone thinks this will stop a anti you are sadly mistaken. But yet some people will believe anything that is told to them because they are also told something that makes them happy or gives them a false hope.

Think about it. A person gets a draw and doesn't go hunting so that tag is gone. A person gets a cert and a draw and still doesn't go hunting,that tag is still gone. So how is it going to make any difference? They still have the draw and you don't.Does anyone magically think that just because they bought a cert that it will force them to hunt? The only people that win is the government because they now have more $$$ in the coffers to spend. Its like saying that you cant buy a vehicle unless you have a drivers license and registration on the vehicle. Of course to drive it you need to have both as well as insurance,but in the real world I can buy it and have it sit in my yard and never use it.

But then they say that it will improve your chances and all of a sudden everyone thinks that they will get a draw every couple years...suckers..

Its a step in the right direction. More money up front, will hopefully deter some of these people from putting in all together. Will it cure the problem completely? Probably not. But its a better effort than doing nothing. Would you rather see draw prices doubled? Tripled? Most everyone purchases a wild life certificate yearly anyways, so for the majority of people, its not a big deal.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by icehunter

I know guys that only put in for draws and have no interest in deer or bird hunting. The point is that its a cash grab and before you even go hunting you will spend cash on nothing. If anyone thinks this will stop a anti you are sadly mistaken. But yet some people will believe anything that is told to them because they are also told something that makes them happy or gives them a false hope.

Think about it. A person gets a draw and doesn't go hunting so that tag is gone. A person gets a cert and a draw and still doesn't go hunting,that tag is still gone. So how is it going to make any difference? They still have the draw and you don't.Does anyone magically think that just because they bought a cert that it will force them to hunt? The only people that win is the government because they now have more $$$ in the coffers to spend. Its like saying that you cant buy a vehicle unless you have a drivers license and registration on the vehicle. Of course to drive it you need to have both as well as insurance,but in the real world I can buy it and have it sit in my yard and never use it.

But then they say that it will improve your chances and all of a sudden everyone thinks that they will get a draw every couple years...suckers..

I would think that the percentage of hunters that only apply for draws and have no interest in hunting on general tags or waterfowl is extremely small. The whole point of the change is the fact that a "hunter" could put in his wife, kids, grandma and grandpa etc. etc. for less than the cost of a wildlife certificate. If it's going to cost this clown $150.00 or so to buy them all Wildlife certificates they might think twice about trying to circumvent the whole idea of the draw system. The wait times here have gotten ridiculous in the last 15 or so years due mostly to the huge population increase in that time period. We have tags now that are literally once in a lifetime draw Something has to be done and I believe this change is only a start in the whole draw system

[icehunter]

Originally Posted by hal53

I would think that the percentage of hunters that only apply for draws and have no interest in hunting on general tags or waterfowl is extremely small. The whole point of the change is the fact that a "hunter" could put in his wife, kids, grandma and grandpa etc. etc. for less than the cost of a wildlife certificate. If it's going to cost this clown $150.00 or so to buy them all Wildlife certificates they might think twice about trying to circumvent the whole idea of the draw system. The wait times here have gotten ridiculous in the last 15 or so years due mostly to the huge population increase in that time period. We have tags now that are literally once in a lifetime draw Something has to be done and I believe this change is only a start in the whole draw system

True..it will probably cut a lot of the "family" applications out.

[Byron]

Or why not change the system to have two rounds of draws. Keep the standard mid June deadline since the system is electronic anyways and no reason it should take 3-4 weeks to release results and release results by June 30th. Then set a deadline to purchase licences for Special Draw tags, say July 20. At this point all non purchased draw tags go back into a second draw where anyone eligible can reapply (no priority gained if not drawn in this draw).

I see this method as being more effective as I don't see an anti shying away from the draws for the cost of a $30 wildlife certificate. However what this will do is force them to actually buy the tags (another $40- $50/tag depending on how many they draw) and if they don't then that tag will still have a chance to go to someone who will use it.

Just a thought but I don't see why this wouldn't work?

**Oh also keep the upfront purchase of Wildlife Cert, no issues with that

[waldedw]

Last year there was almost 30% of draw applicants that never bought a WC so essentially all they did was clog the draw system and increase the priority need to draw a tag, I assume that it was mostly anti's and people putting in family members that had no intention of hunting anyway.

Now if there was 30% less people in the draws this year because they have to buy a WC first that's a good thing, it means that draw priority to pull an antelope tag just went form 12 to 8 and for moose from 6 to 4 a 30% better chance, it's all good for us that actually buy a WC and hunt every year weather we get drawn or not.

So I hope that all those that think this is just a dirty cash grab get all their buddies together and totally boycott the draw system, don't you take part in something as crooked as this, we are counting on you so don't let us down.

You all have a great day now

[Lefty-Canuck]

A “hunter” entering a “hunting draw” should have no issues with purchasing the wildlife certificate prior to the draw season.

Most “hunters” who actually “hunt” buy it anyways.... what’s the big deal in buying it sooner?

Personally mine is purchased in the spring for bears, whether I hunt bears or not I always get a fresh tag each year.

This should not be an issue for any “hunter” who actually “hunts”. It’s only an issue if perhaps someone may be skirting some rules in one way or another... why would you enter a draw system if you don’t actually “hunt”?

Keep in mind next year the cost of draw entry will likely increase, its say right in the first page of 2021 proposals.... so heads up for next year.

Proposed Changes for 2021
 A full review of licence and draw application fees is being conducted to align fees with other jurisdictions, improve efficiency and decrease overall complexity by consolidating licences and draw codes.

LC

[Stinky Coyote]

also, do you not need to have passed hunter education training to be able to purchase a wildlife certificate?

i do believe so

passing hunter education training costs money and a bunch of time too, which is another layer of deterrent for those trying to clog the system for any reason

we want as efficient as possible to reward the actual hunters, i like this move

[Fitscottn]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

also, do you not need to have passed hunter education training to be able to purchase a wildlife certificate?

i do believe so

passing hunter education training costs money and a bunch of time too, which is another layer of deterrent for those trying to clog the system for any reason

we want as efficient as possible to reward the actual hunters, i like this move

Ahh, but here is the rub on that.

Yes, it costs money to do the hunter Ed course, but since it’s online how much time does it really take for a guy to do the course three times and take the exam under other peoples names (wife, parents, nephews, nieces etc).

Bingo, got a group of 4.

Now, that 1 wildlife cert and a bunch of draw entries he used to do now just got a lot more cost prohibitive to get his moose draw.

Met a guy on the trails where I hunt, seen and interacted with him over several years. Alone on his quad, I nicknamed him “moose draw guy” so I would remember him. Non FN and seemed to have a moose ticket every year (he was was upfront about getting his draw every year, suspected he did not recognize me from the previous years) where I get 1 draw every 3-4....

This is what I would like to see curbed and I think this may do it.


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[FlyTheory]

We’re lucky so even have some of the opportunities we already do in Alberta regarding the outdoors.. I’m blessed to be able to hunt and fish with so much freedom. Our F&W do a really good job (8/10 stars) at keeping our crapshow of a province managed — especially fisheries, however I bet 50% of ppl on here disagree with that.
Regardless, $30 is really not a lot. If money is a concern, not buying a cheapo gimmic or something you don’t need could save you more money.

[icehunter]

Originally Posted by Fitscottn

Ahh, but here is the rub on that.

Yes, it costs money to do the hunter Ed course, but since it’s online how much time does it really take for a guy to do the course three times and take the exam under other peoples names (wife, parents, nephews, nieces etc).

Bingo, got a group of 4.

Now, that 1 wildlife cert and a bunch of draw entries he used to do now just got a lot more cost prohibitive to get his moose draw.

Met a guy on the trails where I hunt, seen and interacted with him over several years. Alone on his quad, I nicknamed him “moose draw guy” so I would remember him. Non FN and seemed to have a moose ticket every year (he was was upfront about getting his draw every year, suspected he did not recognize me from the previous years) where I get 1 draw every 3-4....

This is what I would like to see curbed and I think this may do it.


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Could always put it back to where you actually have to take the course. That would cut out a lot of "hunters" That in itself would drop the numbers drastically applying for draws. Bonus part would be some extra cash for instructors. Cause after all, serious hunters wont mind spending a little class room time.

[Fitscottn]

Originally Posted by icehunter

Could always put it back to where you actually have to take the course. That would cut out a lot of "hunters" That in itself would drop the numbers drastically applying for draws. Bonus part would be some extra cash for instructors. Cause after all, serious hunters wont mind spending a little class room time.

Certainly a possibility.

I also think based on some of the threads here on fishing, maybe that needs to be a course for the next generation to take.

Covers fishery managment principles, why you don’t drive ATV’s over streambeds, measuring properly for keeping and tagging requirements.

Guess I am just a hopeful dreamer..


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[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Fitscottn

Ahh, but here is the rub on that.

Yes, it costs money to do the hunter Ed course, but since it’s online how much time does it really take for a guy to do the course three times and take the exam under other peoples names (wife, parents, nephews, nieces etc).

Bingo, got a group of 4.

Now, that 1 wildlife cert and a bunch of draw entries he used to do now just got a lot more cost prohibitive to get his moose draw.

Met a guy on the trails where I hunt, seen and interacted with him over several years. Alone on his quad, I nicknamed him “moose draw guy” so I would remember him. Non FN and seemed to have a moose ticket every year (he was was upfront about getting his draw every year, suspected he did not recognize me from the previous years) where I get 1 draw every 3-4....

This is what I would like to see curbed and I think this may do it.


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Ya i hear you, i'd be awful uncomfortable carrying around someone elses tag even if the last name was the same, if their tag is with me and then they are with me, and then they may as well shoot it too

but yes, moose draw guy may go through life never having to explain himself but one stop, one hunt goes a little unusual, one call in, and wrong tag he might be done hunting for many years, anyway, he can be his own man and answer for it should the need arise lol

but ya my oldest did the training online last year, pretty sure it wrecks 100 bucks and 5-6 hours of time even if you have help, the lessons are all timed such that you have to watch all the videos before you can take the quizzes and the final exam will take you an hour even when you're on the ball, i think it gives you 1 1/2 hours

so at least for the non-hunters that buy tags to 'save a life' this will be a pretty daunting entry barrier, for that alone it's great, they, sure it costs the moose draw guy an additional an additional $90-$150 a year per moose now (depending how many 'family' he's running on the cycle but priority 3-4 likely need at least 4 so $120 buck a year for a moose now lol, but even still, not a bad price to pay for a moose every year....however, should he get caught maybe redemption will come in the form of making an example out of him and send the message to the rest of us, truck, guns, 5-10 year ban perhaps? not sure what the penalties might be but i'd rather wait or drag the family along for the ride

It's better now than it was at least, perfection won't be attainable but nice to see logic applied where possible and effort to make things better for the real hunters of Alberta.

[Stinky Coyote]

one could add one more layer into this also, a draw entry certificate

so first you buy the wildlife certificate since you're a hunter and intend to hunt anyway, then the draw entry certificate to partake in the limited opportunities, i dunno, another 30 bucks say? omitted or drastically reduced for under 18 though...maybe mr moose draw will quit being such a selfish pr)ck at this point?

[freeride]

I phoned in and made a suggestion to them last year.

Why not enter your credit card info when doing draws. You get drawn and your card is automatically charged. I know some places in the USA does this as guys will put an alert on their cards. They find out they are drawn when they are charged, often before the official results are up.

[Positrac]

Everyone who disagrees with having to purchase a Wildlife Certificate prior to putting in for a draw should show your disproval by boycotting the draw this year...

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Positrac

Everyone who disagrees with having to purchase a Wildlife Certificate prior to putting in for a draw should show your disproval by boycotting the draw this year...

Ya! What he said!

The only down side for me is I put the kids names in for 999. They don’t hunt but some day they might and that priority might come in handy.
So not it’ll cost a few more scheckles that’s not the end of the world.

Now if we could get “all” user groups to buy the wildlife certificate and contribute to the system I’d be even more happy.

[blgoodbrand1]

Originally Posted by Positrac

Everyone who disagrees with having to purchase a Wildlife Certificate prior to putting in for a draw should show your disproval by boycotting the draw this year...

Now you’re getting somewhere


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[W921]

Went to home hardware and they didn't even know if they would be getting draw books this year. It just seems crazy to me that its getting to the point that you need a computer to hunt. Course its getting so that if you want any human contact you have to own a computer.Anyway back on subject. It concerns me that hunting is sort of turning into a money sport. Example accessing quality places is more and more about money.
I know outfitters who have exclusive access to private land that they don't own or have any connection to. Example hutterites will only allow them on and nobody else.
Or crown land that is blocked off by private land and only an outfitter or select people are allowed to cross.
Like I don't know how you guys who live in town or places like Calgary do it now. It must be so hard. Its not like you own land or strings of horses. I don't even know where you go to target practice? I'm thinking most don't have big bucks to throw around either.
I just hate to see more barriers put up for people.
To me hunting should be more about a way of life. I wish the sport part was more about how its done and not so much about horns. I mean friends and family spending time together.
One of the best things that happened to me last fall was a young hunter who was hunting a different species than us told us where moose where hanging out. I knew he was telling us the truth because we already got our moose in that spot but it really meant a lot to me that this stranger that we bumped into would do that. Makes the world seem a better place.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

also, do you not need to have passed hunter education training to be able to purchase a wildlife certificate?

i do believe so

passing hunter education training costs money and a bunch of time too, which is another layer of deterrent for those trying to clog the system for any reason

we want as efficient as possible to reward the actual hunters, i like this move

In theory. But unfortunately, in Alberta, all you have to do to "prove" that you've passed hunter education is put a check mark in a box. If Alberta went like many other provinces and states, and required you to show actual proof (copy of certificate) of passing the course, then yes, this would add a further deterrent to the antis clogging the system. The way it's set up now, the only deterrent is the extra $28 for the WC.

[Stinky Coyote]

well that sucks, there should be a certificate number for having passed this course, don't have it, do it again? i'd probably have to do it again...

[W921]

Originally Posted by albertadave

In theory. But unfortunately, in Alberta, all you have to do to "prove" that you've passed hunter education is put a check mark in a box. If Alberta went like many other provinces and states, and required you to show actual proof (copy of certificate) of passing the course, then yes, this would add a further deterrent to the antis clogging the system. The way it's set up now, the only deterrent is the extra $28 for the WC.

I don't know about doing it online but when my daughter did it we went to home hardware. They have one of those big machines to put in for draws, buy tags and WIN cards.
Well she had to have her course number that proved she passed her course in order for the machine to work. This I'm sure of.
Maybe there is a online loop hole that you guys are talking about?

[Stinky Buffalo]

I think it's great.

All of those in my draw group buy the WC every year anyhow, since we buy regular tags every year as well. So it's all the same for us.

Originally Posted by W921

Maybe there is a online loop hole that you guys are talking about?

Yes, you just have to claim that you held a valid hunting licence prior to the course becoming a requirement. Not sure how they would follow up on that, though, or what the penalty is for making a false claim.

[saskbooknut]

There is a delicious irony about posting on AO forum to complain about needing a computer to get in the hunting draw.

[W921]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

I think it's great.

All of those in my draw group buy the WC every year anyhow, since we buy regular tags every year as well. So it's all the same for us.



Yes, you just have to claim that you held a valid hunting licence prior to the course becoming a requirement. Not sure how they would follow up on that, though, or what the penalty is for making a false claim.

Its her age. Impossible for her to have held a prior license.

[W921]

Originally Posted by saskbooknut

There is a delicious irony about posting on AO forum to complain about needing a computer to get in the hunting draw.

I know
What's worse is I'm not really into guns or hunting anymore. I'm just trying to reach out and talk about what others are into.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by W921

Its her age. Impossible for her to have held a prior license.

Absolutely, that's one way of knowing.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by W921

I don't know about doing it online but when my daughter did it we went to home hardware. They have one of those big machines to put in for draws, buy tags and WIN cards.
Well she had to have her course number that proved she passed her course in order for the machine to work. This I'm sure of.
Maybe there is a online loop hole that you guys are talking about?

Yah, I was only referring to online. When my kids turned 12, they did the course, and when I set up their profiles on albertarelm the first time there was a box to check yes or no if they had completed hunter ed. That was it. No proof, certificate etc. required. The system seems a little weak to me.
I haven't seen those big machines. Interesting.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Yah, I was only referring to online. When my kids turned 12, they did the course, and when I set up their profiles on albertarelm the first time there was a box to check yes or no if they had completed hunter ed. That was it. No proof, certificate etc. required. The system seems a little weak to me.
I haven't seen those big machines. Interesting.

Agreed about the tweaking. The hunter education course should be attached to the win card# somehow. I’d be willing- more than willingntpreally to retake the course online and get an actual certificate #.

If the online course was offered free and all hunters had to re certify
I don’t see the down side...except a few hours in the doing.

[Fitscottn]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Agreed about the tweaking. The hunter education course should be attached to the win card# somehow. I’d be willing- more than willingntpreally to retake the course online and get an actual certificate #.

If the online course was offered free and all hunters had to re certify
I don’t see the down side...except a few hours in the doing.

I started hunting later in life and took the course. There is a spot to punch the certificate number in (I received a card from AHEIA), but it might be an optional field according to RELM.

My number is punched in and I usually have my card with my WIN card so I never forget where I put it. Lol

At the end of the day, it’s a giant database. DOB is required so pretty easy to flag the age where they have to have taken the course and if the field is blank..... Random audit letter to provide proof or no wildlife cert...


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