We, hunters, need to reign in these types

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by avb3

The "we" is outdoorsmen. The ethical ones. Which most of us are.

But we know those that are not, and we need to speak up when we see it out in the bush, or report it if we can identify the vehicles/people involved. Most of us would do that, BUT, as you can see by this thread, there are many who say "meh, who cares", or question the motive of even bringing it up as a discussion item.

It is the ethical hunter and angler that spoke up against poaching and was instrumental in start the TIPS or RAP programs. It was the ethical sportsmen (and women) who started the conservation movement in North America which has seen the improvement of game animal numbers, and it is the ethical sportsperson who cares about the habitat and environment the critters we hunt or fish live in.

Do I have an agenda? You BET!

It's to highlight those that abuse the outdoors, first for because of conservation reasons, secondly for ethical reasons, and thirdly, because I am rather selfish in wanting to ensure that I have a place to hunt and fish without further restrictions imposed because of yahoos out there.f

If you want to know about what I have done in the past in these regards, PM me for details.

I know of your past Andy, and that you were once the AFGA president, etc etc.

When you throw baited posts, toss around the E word, and point fingers, your credibility drops.

You begin to look like something I'm sure your not.

Back up, come clean, and lead from the front.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I know of your past Andy, and that you were once the AFGA president, etc etc.

When you throw baited posts, toss around the E word, and point fingers, your credibility drops.

You now look like something I'm sure your not.

Back up, come clean, and lead from the front.

So many of my questions have been answered with this post

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

I was out camping recently and unknowingly parked beside a large tree that someone had tried to saw in half with a large caliber gun. I didn't realize it until I set my camp up and had it fallen over it would have done some serious damage to my property. I moved my camp location elsewhere just in case.
Private land is one thing and it does look bad on those that abuse it. I can't speak for everyone else but Public land how ever is different to me when it comes to how I choose to use the land. I don't abuse it or make a mess but I am guilty of mowing some trees down and that of which were ones I planted in one of my camps several years prior. If I have a permit to cut wood and they are trees I've planted there's no difference if I use a gun or a chain saw because the tree is going to be harvested for firewood. The tree gets knocked down and chopped up to burn. An interesting thing I've discovered over time is some trees that have been used as a back drop have a tendency to grow stronger and thicker than if it was never damaged. I shot one tree in a camp I made probably twenty years ago and that tree now is at least five feet taller and more robust than the ones beside it. Don't get me wrong it looks a little mutated but still healthy as can be from appearance. I choose the trees I use for a back stop, either dead or dying, tree stumps etc..but having that said if there are no back stops in an area you are legally allowed to discharge firearms and harvest firewood and it doesn't pose risk of injuring anyone else at a later date, I say why not ? At least I'm using a back stop. My routine is a selective process and some may not see it that way and there are others that just blast up any tree around just for fun and those are the ones that are causing problems in more way than one but at least I'm using selective judgment when I do shoot trees. What do you do I guess

[rens27]

Originally Posted by avb3

http://www.leducrep.com/2016/05/25/q...onjuring-creek

There is little question that seeing the shots in that tree, that these are some of our own. How the heck do we reign in those that do this stuff? They are destroying the landscape, they are alienating land owners, and we ALL will have less places to hunt on as a result.

How are they getting in there if it's all private land? Is it some locals and their friends accessing from their private land? Are they cutting fences? Are there locked gates? There must be some road access somewhere. Perhaps locked gates at the access points are the answer.
Is any of this area crown land? And just to play devil's advocate. Are some of these farmers/ranchers claiming that some of the crown land is theirs? Either properly leased with stipulated conditions or not?

[45/70/500]

Originally Posted by ^v^Tinda wolf^v^

I was out camping recently and unknowingly parked beside a large tree that someone had tried to saw in half with a large caliber gun. I didn't realize it until I set my camp up and had it fallen over it would have done some serious damage to my property. I moved my camp location elsewhere just in case.
Private land is one thing and it does look bad on those that abuse it. I can't speak for everyone else but Public land how ever is different to me when it comes to how I choose to use the land. I don't abuse it or make a mess but I am guilty of mowing some trees down and that of which were ones I planted in one of my camps several years prior. If I have a permit to cut wood and they are trees I've planted there's no difference if I use a gun or a chain saw because the tree is going to be harvested for firewood. The tree gets knocked down and chopped up to burn. An interesting thing I've discovered over time is some trees that have been used as a back drop have a tendency to grow stronger and thicker than if it was never damaged. I shot one tree in a camp I made probably twenty years ago and that tree now is at least five feet taller and more robust than the ones beside it. Don't get me wrong it looks a little mutated but still healthy as can be from appearance. I choose the trees I use for a back stop, either dead or dying, tree stumps etc..but having that said if there are no back stops in an area you are legally allowed to discharge firearms and harvest firewood and it doesn't pose risk of injuring anyone else at a later date, I say why not ? At least I'm using a back stop. My routine is a selective process and some may not see it that way and there are others that just blast up any tree around just for fun and those are the ones that are causing problems in more way than one but at least I'm using selective judgment when I do shoot trees. What do you do I guess

do we have any translaters on board , i have been unable to understand this post

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I know of your past Andy, and that you were once the AFGA president, etc etc.

When you throw baited posts, toss around the E word, and point fingers, your credibility drops.

You begin to look like something I'm sure your not.

Back up, come clean, and lead from the front.

Well I'm sorry you feel pointing out the stuff that can well restrict our access because of yahoos that you find offensive. It's not justified, nor is it something that any of us should be excusing or sweeping under the rug. It is no worse than turning a blind eye to poaching, is it?

If we don't clean this up , unfortunately somebody else who does not have our best interest at heart will. I'm sure you must recognize that is the reality.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by avb3

Well I'm sorry you feel pointing out the stuff that can well restrict our access because of yahoos that you find offensive. It's not justified, nor is it something that any of us should be excusing or sweeping under the rug. It is no worse than turning a blind eye to poaching, is it?

If we don't clean this up , unfortunately somebody else who does not have our best interest at heart will. I'm sure you must recognize that is the reality.

I give up.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Originally Posted by 45/70/500

do we have any translaters on board , i have been unable to understand this post

I know right, no matter how many times you read my post it doesn't make sense until you get north of Calgary. I understand where your coming from

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by avb3

Well I'm sorry you feel pointing out the stuff that can well restrict our access because of yahoos that you find offensive. It's not justified, nor is it something that any of us should be excusing or sweeping under the rug. It is no worse than turning a blind eye to poaching, is it?

If we don't clean this up , unfortunately somebody else who does not have our best interest at heart will. I'm sure you must recognize that is the reality.

Out of curiousity AV, just what exactly do you think "WE" should have done to prevent this tradgedy? You obviously think "WE' were somehow responsible, so please, enlighten us on what "WE" failed to do on that fatefull day. I'm not talking about ongoing conservation, enforcement, or educational programs that are in place already. Give me something concrete that "WE" could have done that day.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

people need to police themselves a little better in my opinion and not others.

like

[avb3]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Out of curiousity AV, just what exactly do you think "WE" should have done to prevent this tradgedy? You obviously think "WE' were somehow responsible, so please, enlighten us on what "WE" failed to do on that fatefull day. I'm not talking about ongoing conservation, enforcement, or educational programs that are in place already. Give me something concrete that "WE" could have done that day.

Perhaps the question we should ask ourselves, is do we overlooked these things when we do see them. There are enough disparaging remarks made about those that are concerned about these types of incidents that it makes one wonder.

Perhaps the question should be asked why that is?

Most sportsman & outdoors people are concerned about this. But too many are not and too many take part in these activities selfishly.

If we as hunters anglers and out doors people don't start seriously opposing this activity rather than turning a blind eye, or worse condoning it, it is all of us whose activities will be restricted. I wonder why some here get upset by me posting some of these transgressions, as opposed to being concerned also. At least that is the message that is being sent.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Originally Posted by avb3

Perhaps the question we should ask ourselves, is do we overlooked these things when we do see them. There are enough disparaging remarks made about those that are concerned about these types of incidents that it makes one wonder.

Perhaps the question should be asked why that is?

Most sportsman & outdoors people are concerned about this. But too many are not and too many take part in these activities selfishly.

If we as hunters anglers and out doors people don't start seriously opposing this activity rather than turning a blind eye, or worse condoning it, it is all of us whose activities will be restricted. I wonder why some here get upset by me posting some of these transgressions, as opposed to being concerned also. At least that is the message that is being sent.

I agree with your thread AV and it's a good one. As I just stated hammering a tree up today could possibly pose serious injury to someone else down the road and make the area look like crap and trespassing on private land making a huge mess makes everyone who uses the outdoors, even responsibly look bad and almost like we are painted with the same brush. It's not the proper way to think but it's just how it is.

If my previous post didn't make much sense on how a tree or plant could possibly do better in the long run under certain curcumstances here's a little experiment to try. Next time your in your garden grab your tomato plant by the stock then with both hands give it a snake bite type motion until you hear the inner fibres snap and then see how it does. I think you'd be surprised by the results and probably get your best pickers from the portion that was damaged. I guess I'm just saying not all bad can come from damaging a plant or tree, I find that part interesting.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by ^v^Tinda wolf^v^

I was out camping recently and unknowingly parked beside a large tree that someone had tried to saw in half with a large caliber gun. I didn't realize it until I set my camp up and had it fallen over it would have done some serious damage to my property. I moved my camp location elsewhere just in case.
Private land is one thing and it does look bad on those that abuse it. I can't speak for everyone else but Public land how ever is different to me when it comes to how I choose to use the land. I don't abuse it or make a mess but I am guilty of mowing some trees down and that of which were ones I planted in one of my camps several years prior. If I have a permit to cut wood and they are trees I've planted there's no difference if I use a gun or a chain saw because the tree is going to be harvested for firewood. The tree gets knocked down and chopped up to burn. An interesting thing I've discovered over time is some trees that have been used as a back drop have a tendency to grow stronger and thicker than if it was never damaged. I shot one tree in a camp I made probably twenty years ago and that tree now is at least five feet taller and more robust than the ones beside it. Don't get me wrong it looks a little mutated but still healthy as can be from appearance. I choose the trees I use for a back stop, either dead or dying, tree stumps etc..but having that said if there are no back stops in an area you are legally allowed to discharge firearms and harvest firewood and it doesn't pose risk of injuring anyone else at a later date, I say why not ? At least I'm using a back stop. My routine is a selective process and some may not see it that way and there are others that just blast up any tree around just for fun and those are the ones that are causing problems in more way than one but at least I'm using selective judgment when I do shoot trees. What do you do I guess

I've often wondered how forest company mills deal with saw logs filled up with steel cores. I would think the head detectors would be going crazy if an old backstop log comes in.

I can envision swarms side by side driving - camo clad - SKS toting eco-terrorist - tree spikers roaming the woods.

A big SxS could do a lot off potential damage. One could easily accommodate a side/front gunner, a tail end charlie as well as a pilot and at least 1500 rounds of milsurp per man.

[DOGFISH]

Allot of the ATV issues would be gone if you could not finance them. Some people feel because the make a payment monthly on an ATV it gives them the right to run over somebody else's land. Buy your own land and tear it up if that's what you feel you need to do. I was up at Island lake last year visiting a friend and ATV's are being run up and down the road being used as babysitters for inconsiderate parents. It was very annoying to say the least. It would be tolerable if they would leave the development slowly and quietly and be gone for a while, but no a few have to rip around and wreck it for others. We have land near Edmonton and have had people climbing hills, tearing up crops, changing oil and draining it on the ground and dumping garbage to name a few. When confronted refuse to give me their address so I could come to their place and do the same things. Now fortunately most people are generally good but it is always a few that feel they have to excel at being inconsiderate. No offence directed at normal people who respect other peoples land and space. A word of advice to some parents, do not raise your kids to grow up and become poor employees. Help your kids, do not give them everything you never had. Make people work for what they deserve and not feel entitled to anything. We are in the best Country in the World, let's not change that. DogFish

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Originally Posted by JimPS

I've often wondered how forest company mills deal with saw logs filled up with steel cores. I would think the head detectors would be going crazy if an old backstop log comes in.

I can envision swarms side by side driving - camo clad - SKS toting eco-terrorist - tree spikers roaming the woods.

A big SxS could do a lot off potential damage. One could easily accommodate a side/front gunner, a tail end charlie as well as a pilot and at least 1500 rounds of milsurp per man.

That does sound horrendous, especially the SKS part and the armoured tanks. I don't agree with people who do this and they do. On another note though I have an SKS because it's cheap to shoot which gives me more enjoyment time shooting. I think the SKS is a piece of junk and I wouldn't own one unless it was giving me some kind of return or enjoyment.
Im an optimistic in most aspects and if the logging companies are getting more product because someone drove one round in every tree I'm sure it would be more profitable. Call me wrong and it's just something I've noticed over time with the whole damaging trees part and I certainly don't condone clear cutting a forest with an SKS because it's just stupid and makes people look bad but what do you do ?

[waterninja]

Just as I thought, no concrete suggestion. Please dismount your high horse. What you call disparaging remarks, is simply "US" everyday outdoorsmen being offended by you accusing us of being somehow responsible for some a-holes actions. As I stated earlier, go ahead and feel guilty for what they did, but don't expect others to shoulder the blame when they had nothing whatsoever to do with what happened.

OPPS.. responce to AV post 41

[hal53]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Just as I thought, no concrete suggestion. Please dismount your high horse. What you call disparaging remarks, is simply "US" everyday outdoorsmen being offended by you accusing us of being somehow responsible for some a-holes actions. As I stated earlier, go ahead and feel guilty for what they did, but don't expect others to shoulder the blame when they had nothing whatsoever to do with what happened.

OPPS.. responce to AV post 41

I'm not so sure he meant that we, as Outdoors people were responsible as much as if we turn a blind eye and ignore it or worse can't see anything wrong with giving the public this perception of all of us, there will be yet more rules and regulations and/or loss of privileges...I may have interpreted it differently than you...

[avb3]

Originally Posted by hal53

I'm not so sure he meant that we, as Outdoors people were responsible as much as if we turn a blind eye and ignore it or worse can't see anything wrong with giving the public this perception of all of us, there will be yet more rules and regulations and/or loss of privileges...I may have interpreted it differently than you...

That is exactly what I tried to communicate. We get this them against us perception, and defend any of "us" when we shouldn't if they are wrong. Very few here would defend poaching

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

We're not responsible for it but we are all going to pay the price for what these idiots do.

Yup,


I would bet 20 somethings did this before I lump them in with Hunters.

[Newview01]

Look, there is one thing clear. There is information missing from the story. It is one sided, the access is not clearly discussed, neither is the extent of the private land / creek bed issue. There is nothing wrong with using a tree as a backstop. As far as quadding in the creek, was the trail leading into the creek? Were they crossing or driving alongside or in?

You have not come up with a solution, and frankly you are an embarrassment to the outdoor community with your pseudo conservative BS that is in no way reasonable or feasible.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Look, there is one thing clear. There is information missing from the story. It is one sided, the access is not clearly discussed, neither is the extent of the private land / creek bed issue. There is nothing wrong with using a tree as a backstop. As far as quadding in the creek, was the trail leading into the creek? Were they crossing or driving alongside or in?

You have not come up with a solution, and frankly you are an embarrassment to the outdoor community with your pseudo conservative BS that is in no way reasonable or feasible.

So you don't see a problem, so you won't be part of the solution.

Can't wait to hear the caterwauling when we lose even more access because of garbage like this. How much ammo do you think this government needs? If you don't think there are a whole subset of society pushing hard you have been not listening.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by avb3

So you don't see a problem, so you won't be part of the solution.

Can't wait to hear the caterwauling when we lose even more access because of garbage like this. How much ammo do you think this government needs? If you don't think there are a whole subset of society pushing hard you have been not listening.

Oh my goodness. AV, your going to stroke out on us, and for what? some fools did an assinine thing that for some unknown reason you feel responsible for. Don't die on this hill.
Yes the world is full of ********s, but what else is new?

P.S........I give this govt. 4 years max. If you decide to run AV, I would vote for you. Really

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I am familiar with that area. I would be willing to bet that it is mostly youth causing problems. Wouldn't say it is hunters that's for sure. People have been hiking and quading that ravine for over 30 years.

I have personal knowledge that many hunters do trespass in this valley. All the land around it is private owned. I have had permission to hunt it from several landowners that own it for 40 years.

5 years ago a fellow bought a property on the valley and the first week he was there 2 guys in a 1/2 ton shot a moose in the gut with an arrow and then chased it through his front yard... with the truck...through his fence and over his lawn. And then took off and left the moose to die and rot.
I have had several hunts disturbed or ruined by other "hunters' that didn't have permission to be there. I have chased out at least 20 unauthorized 'hunters' over the years.

One fellow that rented a field bordering the valley was giving permission to as many as 8 bowhunters (in one season) to hunt land he had no say on. He rents the field, not the valley and the hunters weren't staying on the fields he rented. They were going on other properties.


I do agree that the area's youth quadders do cause some of the problems but definitely not all of them. Go down into that valley in any season on a weekend and you will most likely find a group of adults partying down there too. And they change to sleds in the winter.

When I was a kid I remember seeing big spawning pike miles up this creek from the river. The valley is one of the last strongholds for the local moose. In the past I have seen as many as 14 moose in one day.

The people responsible for ruining this valley have truly broken my heart. This valley was a very special place to me as I went to it regularly for many years. Now I stopped going there because I get so upset.

My great grandfather homesteaded on this creek 120 years ago so it is my roots. We still have the land too.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by avb3

So you don't see a problem, so you won't be part of the solution.

Can't wait to hear the caterwauling when we lose even more access because of garbage like this. How much ammo do you think this government needs? If you don't think there are a whole subset of society pushing hard you have been not listening.

What is the solution? You demand that we all give you a solution but never offer one up yourself other than to lay the blame for a problem at the feet of a group of people who really have nothing to do with it.
Honestly you must truly live a sorry miserable existence judging from the the negativity you throw out daily on this forum. You should get some help seriously . This kind of constant negative energy will put you in an early grave.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Look, there is one thing clear. There is information missing from the story. It is one sided, the access is not clearly discussed, neither is the extent of the private land / creek bed issue. There is nothing wrong with using a tree as a backstop. As far as quadding in the creek, was the trail leading into the creek? Were they crossing or driving alongside or in?

You have not come up with a solution, and frankly you are an embarrassment to the outdoor community with your pseudo conservative BS that is in no way reasonable or feasible.

I challenge you to go for a walk in this valley and see the damage and destruction of forest and riparian areas. The quadders drive through the creek and are making new trails where it is all private land. The weekenders are cutting trees and bring in scraps of metal sheeting on their quads to make shelters. In one area there is even a car that was driven down a trail as far down that valley as they could go.

And the fact of the matter is ALL of the bordering lands of the valley are private properties. There is no legal access during open water season and during winter I bet most of the sled tracks don't stay on the creek bed. And as far as the trail leading into the creek... it is all private land around it and any trails crossing the land have been made illegally.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

What is the solution? You demand that we all give you a solution but never offer one up yourself other than to lay the blame for a problem at the feet of a group of people who really have nothing to do with it.
Honestly you must truly live a sorry miserable existence judging from the the negativity you throw out daily on this forum. You should get some help seriously . This kind of constant negative energy will put you in an early grave.

The solution?

The same thing we did to curtail poaching. We try and educate the people involved, we report them to the authorities, and we shame them.

That is exactly the procedure that was used to stop poaching and make it socially unacceptable among hunters and anglers.

And if you haven't heard me say similar things before, you either have not been following the threads or you haven't been listening.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

I challenge you to go for a walk in this valley and see the damage and destruction of forest and riparian areas. The quadders drive through the creek and are making new trails where it is all private land. The weekenders are cutting trees and bring in scraps of metal sheeting on their quads to make shelters. In one area there is even a car that was driven down a trail as far down that valley as they could go.

And the fact of the matter is ALL of the bordering lands of the valley are private properties. There is no legal access during open water season and during winter I bet most of the sled tracks don't stay on the creek bed. And as far as the trail leading into the creek... it is all private land around it and any trails crossing the land have been made illegally.

There appeared to be those among us who just do not want to believe the truth.

They would rather disparage the messenger.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

What is the solution?

Shut down Quads all together. Or like earlier suggested, ATV's should not be sold on payment plans. It makes it too easy for the abusers to access the machines. Or maybe have ALL quad buyers pay an environmental fee of a thousand bucks to pay for the quadding damages occurring in the province.
And give the money raised to enforcement.

My solution would be to put spike strips on the illegal trails all over the valley for the trespassiing quads to drive over. Hard to wreck the valley with flat tires.

[MDowdall]

I am not 100% sure but i believe this is the creek that crosses hwy 39 as you leave calmar . I live in Calmar and i can tell you that even just in town there are a pile of people who rip up and down the banks of that creek most of them mid to late teens. We also have a huge problem with this same age group ripping through peoples lawns and racing in our subdivision. Judging by the behavior displayed by many of these individuals I would not be the least surprised to find out that they had been cutting through fences and causing havoc on others property as there seems to be no reprocusions or accountability .

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by MDowdall

I am not 100% sure but i believe this is the creek that crosses hwy 39 as you leave Calmar .

Yes. That's the creek. It runs from Wizard lake to the river 3 miles west of Devon.