"Shop Supplies" BS from Car Dealership...

[densa44]

This has been going on for as long as I've been driving, in one form or another.

I now buy my vehicles at an auction and take them to a mechanic that I trust.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

"Shop Supplies" BS from Car Dealership . . .

No offence, but (right or wrong) 'Shop Supplies' charges have been around for many years now, and are common knowledge to just about everyone.

Why are we getting our knickers in a knot about it now ... what's changed?!

Mac

[blgoodbrand1]

Why is this so complicated ?
I Understand there are costs to running a business
Figure out your costs and charge for them.
Don't pillage me for all you can and then a little more. We all need to make a living. You don't need to do it all in a day.

[pinelakeperch]

Wow, $18! I checked my last bill for an oil change at Valentine Volvo, $2.50 "shop fees".

[SKSniper]

Originally Posted by blgoodbrand1

Why is this so complicated ?
I Understand there are costs to running a business
Figure out your costs and charge for them.
Don't pillage me for all you can and then a little more. We all need to make a living. You don't need to do it all in a day.

Yup^...I can understand a shop fee, but the amounts they charge are absolutely ridiculous.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by MacLeod

No offence, but (right or wrong) 'Shop Supplies' charges have been around for many years now, and are common knowledge to just about everyone.

Why are we getting our knickers in a knot about it now ... what's changed?!

Mac

I am 43 and I can remember not paying shop supplies at the garage where I took my first car and first truck. What has changed over time is the amount being charged. If this had been for $3 or $4, I would have ate it and moved on. It's only a matter of time before someone starts putting 15% on there and people will pay it. There are many people who have absolutely no choice but to pay.

Auto shops started charging a very minimal amount and people grumbled but still payed it. Over the years, the amount just keeps going up. I have not brought a vehicle in for any sort of PM service for a long time because I did my own. The wife brought this in for the first couple of PM's but it just so happened that I picked it up this time. Had the wife picked it up, she likely would not have noticed and nothing would have happened. (like many other customers). It would seem that roughly 10% is now going rate from what I am seeing in this thread. There is no way that a shop could go through $20 worth of shop supplies on the service I got today and they would not go through $50 worth on a $600 thermostat replacement.

[leeaspell]

Tire stores are the same. $35-40 to mount a tire, then there's the " valve stem charge" for $4-5 a piece, then this charge, and that charge. Damn near $200 for a mount and balance

[birdee]

the auto industry has been in a race to the bottom for years.One of there tech's
sees what his boss charges for jobs and thinks like you people that he is making a bundle of money.He starts doing jobs on the side for cheap.
This reinforces his belief that his boss is ripping him off on wages and the customer as well.
He then opens his own shop and charges the same cheap labor and parts jobs
business is booming but he found out that he is lower than the industry standard of 5 hrs of billable labor a day.The bills come in for rent,taxes,oxy acetlyne, insurance (surely he bought that? )hand cleaner,towels,floor dry brake clean,grinding discs,saw blades,welding tips,electricity,glue need i go one the list would be very long.He then has to do a job for free because of a defective part.
He is now into 90 days with his suppliers and raises his rates close to everyone else but now is loosing customers because his tech that he hired is now doing jobs on the side because?? you guessed it his boss is ripping him and his customers off .

[Dog hunter]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

Not exactly, sure, I was trying to take off the oil change portion to make it fair. I made sure to put up a copy of their Maintenance Program earlier in the thread to show what was included in the service that I received.

You are right, anyone who tries to rip me off is not going to be very happy with me.

You don't work in the auto fixing business by any chance do you?

No but i have run shops for logging and construction contractors for a longtime and i know the miscallaneous supplies add up to an extrordinary amount of money, no one likes to pay , but someone has to

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Tire stores are the same. $35-40 to mount a tire, then there's the " valve stem charge" for $4-5 a piece, then this charge, and that charge. Damn near $200 for a mount and balance

Not this guy! There are exceptions with TPMS sensor stems etc (when/if the customer wants or requires them changed), but for the vast majority of work I do, when I give a customer a price, I am giving them an all in, out the door price including all labour, accessories (if required) and taxes. The best sales tool I have is being completely up front and honest about costs. Nothing worse than being told one price, only to find out it is more when it comes time to pay the bill...

[WildernessWanderer]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Not this guy! There are exceptions with TPMS sensor stems etc (when/if the customer wants or requires them changed), but for the vast majority of work I do, when I give a customer a price, I am giving them an all in, out the door price including all labour, accessories (if required) and taxes. The best sales tool I have is being completely up front and honest about costs. Nothing worse than being told one price, only to find out it is more when it comes time to pay the bill...

Hats off to you! Please send me the name of your business as I am looking for tires.

[leeaspell]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Not this guy! There are exceptions with TPMS sensor stems etc (when/if the customer wants or requires them changed), but for the vast majority of work I do, when I give a customer a price, I am giving them an all in, out the door price including all labour, accessories (if required) and taxes. The best sales tool I have is being completely up front and honest about costs. Nothing worse than being told one price, only to find out it is more when it comes time to pay the bill...

That's why I go to Integra tire in Fox creek. The price he gives you is what you pay. The all in price is usually quite a bit cheaper than the before price in whitecourt.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Not this guy! There are exceptions with TPMS sensor stems etc (when/if the customer wants or requires them changed), but for the vast majority of work I do, when I give a customer a price, I am giving them an all in, out the door price including all labour, accessories (if required) and taxes. The best sales tool I have is being completely up front and honest about costs. Nothing worse than being told one price, only to find out it is more when it comes time to pay the bill...

BINGO!!

This is all people really want; transparency. If I had been told that the service would cost $217.xx then this thread would never have happened. Instead I feel deceived and nickel and dimed; on top of an already expensive service. I was made to feel like I just got had. Believe me, nobody likes this feeling. They should just charge more for the service instead of having hidden costs. I'm pretty sure that nobody wants to pay shop supplies but they understand that a place needs to make money to stay in business. Charging both regular service costs plus shop supplies makes the customer feel like a sucker.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Not this guy! There are exceptions with TPMS sensor stems etc (when/if the customer wants or requires them changed), but for the vast majority of work I do, when I give a customer a price, I am giving them an all in, out the door price including all labour, accessories (if required) and taxes. The best sales tool I have is being completely up front and honest about costs. Nothing worse than being told one price, only to find out it is more when it comes time to pay the bill...

This is what I expect from a business. customers usually just want the truth and the chance to make a decision.

[nikitasey]

Originally Posted by Dog hunter

Ever looked at the price of shop supplies,things like loctite, wd/40 , degreasers, gasket compounds,adhesives some of these items are scary expensive. Caterpillar makes a product to use on exhaust manifolds that cost 300$ for 470ml, these costs have to be accounted for.

Yes.

[ctd]

Shop rates are $120-145 an hr.
Apprentice is paid $12-25 an hr.
Journeyman is paid 30-45hr.
Actual hrs worked 5.
Charged hrs 8.
Then you add shop supply fees.
mark up on parts.

You get one hefty bill.

The example of the guy only charging half of what the dealer charges and going belly up because of over head can happen.But More times then not they do very well. Make more money then they would then if they worked for the dealer. If that was not case then you wouldn't see so many independents working now a days.
The dealers would not be trying to enforce dealer only equipment to change a oil filter or check the check engine light.

lets face it. the automotive industry has been over charging for many years. The service you get is not always what you paid for. I personally have been ripped off not by one dealership but a whole line of them. Charging for wok they did not perform. Having my warrenty voided due to their poor workmanship, having a host of other problems to which they caused, had no problem charging me to get my vehicle back. Even when they broke it themselves. The only choice you have is go elsewhere to get work done.

Sorry I use to fix aircraft. If the we fixed planes like the auto industry fixes car we would be in a world of hurt.
If we had of charged the rates automotive services charge we all would have been rich. We charged for actual hrs worked not book rates.
We also fixed what we charged for. if we said we changed oil, we changed the oil. If we adjusted the carbs, we adjusted the carbs.
When we had shop supply charges it was to cover things such as a bucket of varsol needed to clean the fuselage. To which it was purchased specifically for that job. Not for every day consumables.
The cost of LPS spray, using the varsol tank, or the sand blaster was included in the shop rate.

[Got Juice?]

The worst theft is that many places calculate ''shop supplies' as a percentage of the shop's labour rate (typically 7% on large jobs and 9-12% on small jobs)

so if you paid 1000.00 in labour, your shop supplies charge is 70.00!!!


Long story short. I do not pay shop charges ever.

Usually the conversation is as follows to the service manager. Sir, I see you have charged me 126.00 in shop supplies, can you get me an itemized list of the supplies used and the quantity of supplies used?

No?


Then how could you possibly know what these charges consist of? or is it a wild assed guess?

If it is a guess, I will not be paying for these items, and if you insist, you may keep the truck until I get some legal advice on an undocumented and unexplainable charge on my bill.

[dodger]

Brasso has always given me the upfront price and has never deviated from it.

Dodger.

[58thecat]

Yep worked at a garage in the 80 's and we would spray the door hinges but charge for the whole can. See things have not changed. Who would have thought that a two dollar can of WD40 can make you two hundred bucks?

[agentsmith]

I haven't gone to dealerships for service for years now, unless it's on warranty. I've just been burned or almost burned too many times.

I once paid a dealer shop for a "50 point inspection" because I was about to move across the country, then a couple days later I discovered both taillights were burnt out. Funny how they didn't find that during their thorough inspection. I went back and asked what else they didn't actually check, and they offered me a free oil change coupon. When I said that's no good to me because I'm moving, they basically just shrugged.

Another time, my wife called because she smelled a rat when a dealer told her the brake pads were worn and needed replacement. When I asked exactly what "worn" means, they said "about 50%". Well they're a few years old already, so I guess they've got some life left in them, don't they?

A friend of mine once overheard a service manager telling a labourer to go to Canadian Tire to get some jobber brake rotors because they were out of stock. I bet they charged that customer for "genuine OEM parts" though.

Dealers make more on service than they do on sales, and this is why. And they generally don't know their own models any better than an indie mechanic either.

For anyone in Calgary, I highly recommend Double J Automotive. I knew I could trust those guys when I brought them a 10 year old car with a squealing power steering pump. I presumed the pump was toast since it was original, but they just put in new fluid and some conditioner. Problem solved, and the bill was like $20. I guarantee you a dealer would have just sold me a new pump without any thought about a low-cost solution.

[Salavee]

Is it not true that auto dealerships, body shops etc. work on a flat rate ?
Like if the flat rate to change an alternator on a ... Toyota is 1.2 hr and the mechanic does the job in .4 hours , you get the bill for 1.2. (plus shop supplies)
I recall a bodyman friend who worked a normal 8 hrs and his shop billed almost twice that, and he was paid accordingly. Sounds like a good program.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Yep worked at a garage in the 80 's and we would spray the door hinges but charge for the whole can. See things have not changed. Who would have thought that a two dollar can of WD40 can make you two hundred bucks?

And the icing on the cake about this matter:
WD-40 not even a viable lubricator!

[Hevishot]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Is it not true that auto dealerships, body shops etc. work on a flat rate ?
Like if the flat rate to change an alternator on a ... Toyota is 1.2 hr and the mechanic does the job in .4 hours , you get the bill for 1.2. (plus shop supplies)
I recall a bodyman friend who worked a normal 8 hrs and his shop billed almost twice that, and he was paid accordingly. Sounds like a good program.

Thats kind of how it works. Let's say they pay 8.0 Hrs to repair a dent at 70 per hour labour plus material. Body Man gets it done in 6.0 Hrs. Bodyman gets paid for 8.0 at 35 an hour flat rate but was over 100% productive that's how you make money and that how productive shops make money. The downside is if you get a poorly written estimate where that 8.0 hour dent is actually a 12.0 hour dent or if it ends up coming back you make nothing redoing it.