RCMP Contiune To Lie

[JimPS]

This is not intended to justify a kick in the head when the man was on the ground. It is indeed absurd to say all RCMP officers are after legal gun owners. It's also very unfortunate that because of public attitude that now exists towards firearms, legal firearms owners are under the microscope every time they want to partake in their chosen legal activity.
Bottom line, if you want to own and use guns you have to be squeaky clean.
If you look weird or act strangely and behave bizarely from time to time and you have guns, do so at your own peril. If you demonstrate belligerent or anti police behavior and you are mouthy when you get drunk or are pulled over by the cops, expect harsh treatment if you get in a jam and you own guns. If you beat your wife, abuse your kids, fight with the neighbors, threaten the neighborhood bully or become the neighborhood bully yourself, and you own guns, again, do so at your own peril.
In the small city where I grew up, it was pretty acceptable when we were 12 or 13 to ride around on our bicycles with our .22's slung over our shoulders to get past the city limits so we could shoot gophers. One time some cops in a car actually came by and fired a few rounds from their old Webley's at cans when we were shooting. Imagine today a kid riding around Edmonton with a rifle slung over his shoulder - it would become an instant SWAT team take down.
Now again, picture the same kid today when he's 45 or 60 years old, maybe he's let himself go or has some disabilities from an accident or something and he's maybe acting a little strange with his gun - that's sure to attract the heat. Maybe a dude has or has had has some substance abuse issues, has some attitude or anger management problems or has a criminal record - it's going to be red flag for the cops even if he's not doing anything illegal.
If you want to keep the privilege of owning and using firearms it entirely your responsibility to be squeaky clean. Times have changed - welcome to the police state.

Jim

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by TheClash

why would he remove the trigger lock?

Probably to try and set the guy up for transporting a firearm unsafely. Who knows, with what went down in that video nothing makes sense. This whole thing stinks.

[elkhunter11]

IF indeed it is a fact that the officer was responding to a call of :

A) disgruntled employee with a gun
B) gun was pointed at other individuals
C) And shots fired

Now was that the facts of the call? None of us know. But in a case such as that. If little punt to the lips can prevent the "possibility" of officer from going hands on or someone getting shot. Then by all means that is the lesser evil. If the officer in question was just playing the tough guy for the camera or what ever reason. Then I suggest we find a tree...

Not one of those "IFs" justify kicking a man in the face when he is down on all fours with two firearms pointed at him.Are you suggesting,that despite the fact that the man was on all fours with two guns pointed at him,that he was a threat to the officers,or to someone else?

[cover]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Good catch. The officer who took possesion of the shotgun did remove the trigger lock.

The same officer also DID NOT check to confirm the shotgun was unloaded before walking away with it.

'Ya no doubt if had been you or I we would have failed our firearms test for not opening the action and inserting a finger to physically check / ensure it is unloaded......... but they are sure quick to insert they're finger up 'yer .....

[adaras]

i think this is the top of the iceberg. what is behind that? maby they wanna take all our guns? we have to find out and see what to do befor it is too late

[jts1]

No sir I am not saying it was oneway or another. This seems like a responsible normal guy that in fact was doing his job and just headed home after. But It could just have easily been a freak off his leash and jumped out shooting or had a gun in his belt., a blade in his hand who knows, this is a messed up place we live in. So where does the line begin and stop for what is acceptable when dealing with a situation that is unknown and explosive by its definition. The police would have had a short time to make a judgment call on the driver with what ever information they have at hand. Now that is going to be the situation you are in and the history they have on there computer. Does the call always turn out to be the right one? Hell no of course not. But I am not an officer dealing with that stuff everyday so I am not even going to try and make that call. Just providing some more views to the situation. I am not making a judgment nor care to be judged.

[KegRiver]

Maybe I'm a bit off topic, but it seems to me that this gun law of ours has done far more to drive a wedge between law abiding citizens and our police then any combination of things or events in the history of this country.

And still the police forces out there support it. Why?

[reelhooker]

Why was this pos officer not arrested by his fellow officers. The largest threat I could see in the video was a police officer assaulting a civilian. He should have been taken down, disarmed and charged on site.

[bearbuster]

In the heat of the moment of a struggle or a long chase and a combative suspect I could see and officer "slip up" and may be get carried away, but lately there seems to be more of this type of action caught on tape. For 22 seconds the cop stands beside him everything seems under control. Then the guy is on all fours (preparing a charge?) firearm was no where in site the gun is drawn and a kick to the face? Did the cop just notice the camera? There sure seems to be more of these type of events, Not just against gun owners. Although as far as guns go, you must stay clean, behave and not give any body a reason to look at you this way.

But this **** is different

[MWD 800]

Originally Posted by jts1

So where does the line begin and stop for what is acceptable when dealing with a situation that is unknown and explosive by its definition.

The line stops when an UNARMED man is down on all 4's and is kicked in the face after complying... That is where the line has been crossed. SURELY you must see that??!!

Joe

[elkhunter11]

But It could just have easily been a freak off his leash and jumped out shooting or had a gun in his belt., a blade in his hand who knows, this is a messed up place we live in.

By the time he was kicked in the face,he was already on all fours.His hands were up and in plain sight,before he started down on all fours,so it was quite obvious that he had nothing in his hands.If he had a hidden weapon,he wasn't making any attempt to reach for it.

I wonder how you would feel if you had been pulled over,ordered on all fours,then kicked in the face,just because you "might" have had a hidden weapon,and "this is a messed up place we live in".

Why was this pos officer not arrested by his fellow officers. The largest threat I could see in the video was a police officer assaulting a civilian. He should have been taken down, disarmed and charged on site.

That is the problem here,instead of taking action and dealing with the few out of control officers,the RCMP continues to defend their actions.That is why the outcome of this investigation will likely result in no wrong doing on the part of the officer.By protecting a few problem officers,the RCMP is turning the citizens against the entire force.

[ATF]

Maybe it's just me but since the Mayerthorpe thing the RCMP seems to shoot first and ask questions later. There have been several instances where they seem to have responded with brute force for no apparent reason.
I was stopped by one on the highway for speeding and when I went to give him my drivers license I dropped it and when I went to pick it up he jumped back and put his hand on his side arm. That's too twitchy for me.

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

I was raised to have respect for the RCMP and to trust them, after i have seen way to much stuff like this and dealing with them, and haveing relations and freinds in the RCMP force, i have learned to hold no respect for them, and wouldnt trust them even when they are off duty , anything they say is a lie , they are all hypocrites , two faced thugs that hide behind a badge and the law, they are just a drain on tax payers and doughnut shops, to lazy to even do any type of investigateing or patroling, expect everyone else to do their work and they they take the credit for it,if they did their jobs every day the way they are supposed to do they wouldnt need to have these cash cow blitz,s that they hold, and there would be way less crime as well

[BuckMan101]

Sounds like the guy is hoping for a law suit...

But calling out an entire organization based on the actions of one cop is like saying every priest is a child molester based on the actions of a hand full.

[Sundancefisher]

Firstly I have not seen the video...I am looking for it.

Secondly...when it comes to policing...I am glad I am not a cop. To some degree it is a profession that is becoming more problematic that a male kindergarden teacher. Everyone is a critic yet not one of us would go to a door if responding to a domestic dispute with a gun or even pull over a stranger on a dark street at night to give them a ticket.

When there is always a chance of personal injury to the officer...you have to err on their side. In a situation where they just want something to happen faster...they have to show prudent restraint and patience.

By the media reports...it sounds like the guy was complying...but very slowly. So long as motion of the perp is moving towards compliance...why on Earth would an officer think it is wise to intervene with violence? This is a sign of either poor training, work place stress, or sudden movement by the perp that leads the officer to believe immediate restraint is required.

Still...again...man o man I would not want to be a cop. I could try and talk the guy to death or blog him to death and in the end...someone on this forum will still find fault. That is the problem with not being there and understanding what is going through the officers mind. Whether he was right or wrong in the end... I still would never want that job and happy there are many more capable officers that the very few problem ones.

[jts1]

Before I get locked up in the same cell as the officer in question. I am not saying that this particular situation granted any violence what so ever. But what if in-fact this fellow had been on the golf curse. He did wave a 12 gage in the face of some ones 60 year old mother and there 15 year old daughter playing the back 9. Shot a few shells in the air and then jumped in his truck and took off. Now AGAIN I am not saying this is what happened. But in a case such as that I would have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone.

[AxeMan]

Sun, watch the video and then make your speculations.
"it sounds like the guy was complying...but very slowly"
Please!

[elkhunter11]

But calling out an entire organization based on the actions of one cop is like saying every priest is a child molester based on the actions of a hand full.

The solution is simple,prove that your organization deserves respect,by dealing with that one cop or that one priest.If your organization defends that one persons actions,you are telling the public that you agree with him and his actions,so your organization is no better than that one person.

But what if in-fact this fellow had been on the golf curse. He did wave a 12 gage in the face of some ones 60 year old mother and there 15 year old daughter playing the back 9. Shot a few shells in the air and then jumped in his truck and took off.

Even if the officers had been told that,once the man was down on all fours,the officers did not have any reason to kick him in the face.They didn't witness the incident,they are not the judge and jury,and they don't have the legal right to punish the person,even if he was guilty..

[BuckMan101]

When push comes to shove each cop is on their own and needs to cover their own ***** because the public nor their employer will ever stand behind them. Dog eat Dog world unfortunitly.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The solution is simple,prove that your organization deserves respect,by dealing with that one cop or that one priest.If your organization defends that one persons actions,you are telling the public that you agree with him and his actions,so your organization is no better than that one person.



Even if the officers had been told that,once the man was down on all fours,the officers did not not have any reason to kick him in the face.They are not the judge and jury,and they don't have the legal right to punish the person,even if he was guilty..

[jts1]

Even if the officers had been told that,once the man was down on all fours,the officers did not not have any reason to kick him in the face.They are not the judge and jury,and they don't have the legal right to punish the person,even if he was guilty..

That is 100% correct and that is also where my opinion and morals change a little. But as they say to each there own. If you catch a guy in your home late at night.. Do you call 911 right away or is there a 10 min window in there somewhere.

Short of killing someone and then being taken down at the end of a high speed pursuit where the suspect puts others lives at danger, showing that they are unstable and potentially suicidal, there is NO REASON for any suspect to be assaulted in this manner... Period.

I respect your view I really do. But if they did such horrible things as you have stated, it would then be acceptable? I think we have similar views just different lines in the sand is all.

[Pudelpointer]

Sorry Jts1, but that doesn't fly.

Short of killing someone and then being taken down at the end of a high speed pursuit where the suspect puts others lives at danger, showing that they are unstable and potentially suicidal, there is NO REASON for any suspect to be assaulted in this manner... Period.

At this point the man is a suspect. He is not a criminal, he is not a violent offender, he is just someone they need to talk to and ascertain whether or not he is in violation of a law. I would suggest that even if the fellow had just killed a half dozen people, he was cooperating and compliant, therefore the kick is nothing less then an indictable offense.

This is one of the dangers of this registry bs. Some douche over reacts because you are flagged as a gun owner, and therefore are a dangerous suspect.

[BuckMan101]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

they don't have the legal right to punish the person,even if he was guilty..

Technically they do

[Saskbushman]

If this cop isn't fired and thrown in prison there is something very wrong with our system. If justice was to be served he would spend his time in general population and maybe take a kick or two himself in the face and maybe a stick or two from the other end, he could be somebody's b**ch for awhile, see how he likes people with power then, the big tough guy that he is. I know many police officers, rcmp and city, as a matter of fact my brother is one. I'm not painting everybody with one brush but they have a high rate of "holier than thow and not accountable to anybody" than most professions, and I can guarantee there are many, many coverups. This making up domestic stuff about the victim is another case of see what we can drum up to make the victim of police brutality look bad and they come out smelling like a rose.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Sun, watch the video and then make your speculations.
"it sounds like the guy was complying...but very slowly"
Please!

Just watched...

Based upon the video...he did not have time comply and put his hands over his head. It seems to me that the cops approached to early...failed to give enough reasonable time for the scene to be secure enough to approach. I suspect he felt his approach and that of his partner were compromised with the man's crouched position and ability to reach his belt for a potential weapon even though there was a good line of sight. This concern could also be argued insofar as concern for the public. There was a guy beside him in potential harms way as well as cars with people in it near by. I would fairly argue with a gun involved...a single kick to the head rather that a surprise quick visit from a hand gun was warranted.

Based upon this video however...if I was a disipline judge...the police were in error insofar as proper procedure is concerned. The officer that kicked the guy used excessive force once IMHO. Everyone should realize and not demonize this guy as we are not talking about an excesive prolonged beating. He should be seriously reprimanded with a suspension and maybe drop in grade but not firing unless this is his second time with excesive force. I feel he should take training to understand what he did wrong and set an example to learn from his mistake and become a better officer. I give him this benefit of the doubt due to the position and premise this is the first time as well as to show some responsibility to the danger of a gun and having members of the public in harms way.

While they should of stayed back...covered him with weapons drawn...waited until he was prone with arms and hands in sight...if the same video...showed the man suddenly reaching into his belt and killing the reporter...we would be arguing the cops did not do their jobs in shooting him fast enough.

Hindsight is always 20/20...the cops can easily think the guy is slow due to drugs or lack of interest in complying.

Just my 2 cents.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The solution is simple,prove that your organization deserves respect,by dealing with that one cop or that one priest.If your organization defends that one persons actions,you are telling the public that you agree with him and his actions,so your organization is no better than that one person.

Now your getting to the heart of the problem and the solution. 100% correct and on the money.

But unfortunately that is not what is happening.....actually the opposite..they are trying to villify this man that they assaulted to get public opinion...yes opinon....and not fact.....on their side so they can let this officer off lightly.

Just think what the situation would be if there was no camera.....maybe another kick to the ribs......a resisting arrest charge....claims of fighting with police and more charges.....the shotgun would have now been loaded and unlocked......the vehicle would have been swerving......etc, etc. If they are so willing to spin this situation and try to make the victim look like the problem...think about how much they could do when a camera is not there. How would you like your life destroyed because a cop can't control himself.....you can bet that your not going to get any justice where there is no video now.

[jts1]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Just watched...

Based upon the video...he did not have time comply and put his hands over his head. It seems to me that the cops approached to early...failed to give enough reasonable time for the scene to be secure enough to approach. I suspect he felt his approach and that of his partner were compromised with the man's crouched position and ability to reach his belt for a potential weapon even though there was a good line of sight. This concern could also be argued insofar as concern for the public. There was a guy beside him in potential harms way as well as cars with people in it near by. I would fairly argue with a gun involved...a single kick to the head rather that a surprise quick visit from a hand gun was warranted.

Based upon this video however...if I was a disipline judge...the police were in error insofar as proper procedure is concerned. The officer that kicked the guy used excessive force once IMHO. Everyone should realize and not demonize this guy as we are not talking about an excesive prolonged beating. He should be seriously reprimanded with a suspension and maybe drop in grade but not firing unless this is his second time with excesive force. I feel he should take training to understand what he did wrong and set an example to learn from his mistake and become a better officer. I give him this benefit of the doubt due to the position and premise this is the first time as well as to show some responsibility to the danger of a gun and having members of the public in harms way.

While they should of stayed back...covered him with weapons drawn...waited until he was prone with arms and hands in sight...if the same video...showed the man suddenly reaching into his belt and killing the reporter...we would be arguing the cops did not do their jobs in shooting him fast enough.

Hindsight is always 20/20...the cops can easily think the guy is slow due to drugs or lack of interest in complying.

Just my 2 cents.

Your Honor I rest my case. You have a way with them alphabet things there Mr Sundance.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

There have been many incidents in the press lately regarding misconduct by the RCMP.A few off the top of my head: Vancouver airport killing of Polish man, RCMP member killing an unarmed drunk guy in the middle of a field in Vanderhoof, RCMP member having sex with a teen girl in Shawinigan Lake.

Does this sound like an outfit worthy of trust. I don't think every priest is a homosexual pedofile but I don't trust the organisation. The RCMP try to protect their image by backing guys like this. The same with the Church. They knew stuff was going on but continued to support the garbage because they are: " One of our Own"

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Just watched...

Based upon the video...he did not have time comply and put his hands over his head. It seems to me that the cops approached to early...failed to give enough reasonable time for the scene to be secure enough to approach. I suspect he felt his approach and that of his partner were compromised with the man's crouched position and ability to reach his belt for a potential weapon even though there was a good line of sight. This concern could also be argued insofar as concern for the public. There was a guy beside him in potential harms way as well as cars with people in it near by. I would fairly argue with a gun involved...a single kick to the head rather that a surprise quick visit from a hand gun was warranted.

Based upon this video however...if I was a disipline judge...the police were in error insofar as proper procedure is concerned. The officer that kicked the guy used excessive force once IMHO. Everyone should realize and not demonize this guy as we are not talking about an excesive prolonged beating. He should be seriously reprimanded with a suspension and maybe drop in grade but not firing unless this is his second time with excesive force. I feel he should take training to understand what he did wrong and set an example to learn from his mistake and become a better officer. I give him this benefit of the doubt due to the position and premise this is the first time as well as to show some responsibility to the danger of a gun and having members of the public in harms way.

While they should of stayed back...covered him with weapons drawn...waited until he was prone with arms and hands in sight...if the same video...showed the man suddenly reaching into his belt and killing the reporter...we would be arguing the cops did not do their jobs in shooting him fast enough.

Hindsight is always 20/20...the cops can easily think the guy is slow due to drugs or lack of interest in complying.

Just my 2 cents.

Based on your reasoning......the next time you go hunting ..you better move fast to lay down on the ground....but not too fast as thats also dangerous.....but just at the right speed based on what the cop is thinking......and if your not exactly timed....guess what......taste the boot leather.

And I am sorry to say there probably won't be any videos around so you may have some other charges to deal with so that they can adze cover and you have no recourse to charge them with assualt. Enjoy your hunting and gun ownership while it lasts...because any charges will fix that for you. After all you as a hunter with a gun, reported by some ninny, are a very very very dangerous person and have to be dealt with accordingly......you do kill things don't you......see......a blood thirsty killer on the loose.

[Bolete]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

Probably to try and set the guy up for transporting a firearm unsafely. Who knows, with what went down in that video nothing makes sense. This whole thing stinks.

The law states that you only need an unrestricted longarm unloaded for legal transport. You don't need it cased or trigger locked.

[elkhunter11]

Technically they do

Is it not the court that passes judgment and hands down the sentence?