Rare 'supersoldier' ants created in Canadian lab

[Arachnodisiac]

When did conservatism in Alberta grow to include an almost fanatic hatred of science and discovery?

That's really quite strange, because Alberta invests a lot in agricultural research and I rarely hear anyone crying about that.

The fact is, if all research was private sector-led, we would find ourselves in a woefully inadequate position when it came to many areas, especially conservation issues which I imagine are of some important to most members of this forum.

Knowing one's field and having confidence in one's work is not akin to playing superior to others...

And this study was about much more than building a super-ant just for sport. The media is notoriously inept at writing accurate science articles and there are two reasons for this:

1. Journalists are generalists and they are not often given the time to properly familiarize with a topic of coverage. Moreover, if they lack any understanding or interest in a topic, it is difficult to really absorb and then regurgitate science-based knowledge in a manner easy to digest by information consumers.

2. The above causes writers to "dumb it down" for readers, and this includes trying to jazz up the headline and the lead sentence in order to attract any readers at all to what dismal offering of science coverage exists in mainstream media.

[greylynx]

You missed the point.

I smell intellectual snobbery on this thread.

The "I went to university and I am smarter than you" snobbery on this thread.

I stuck up for the guys that don't like to be Pixxed on by your kind.

The very same guys who pay your wages.

[Arachnodisiac]

I'm private sector, but that's ok – I anticipated your assumption.

It's not intellectual snobbery to endeavor to increase understanding, or to defend one's character when attacked.

If you feel attacked, I'm afraid it's by your own sense of inadequacy.

That said, and in your defense, there is little doubt that science (be it private or public) is infamous for being poor communicators with the general public. Unfortunately, there really isn't much money available for research, so investing much of it in a sound communications strategy is a luxury many deem impossible.

However, in the long-term, they shortchange future research by allowing the gap of relevancy to become so great.

[BGSH]

I hope one day they come up with a gene to put into pike to make him weight 500 pounds and eat Albertadiver when he goes for a swim haha

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

I'm private sector, but that's ok – I anticipated your assumption.

It's not intellectual snobbery to endeavor to increase understanding, or to defend one's character when attacked.

If you feel attacked, I'm afraid it's by your own sense of inadequacy.

That said, and in your defense, there is little doubt that science (be it private or public) is infamous for being poor communicators with the general public. Unfortunately, there really isn't much money available for research, so investing much of it in a sound communications strategy is a luxury many deem impossible.

However, in the long-term, they shortchange future research by allowing the gap of relevancy to become so great.

Thank you Jesus for setting me in my place.

[vcmm]

Almost every time we screw around with Mother Nature it comes back and bite us in the azz

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by greylynx

You missed the point.

I smell intellectual snobbery on this thread.

The "I went to university and I am smarter than you" snobbery on this thread.

I stuck up for the guys that don't like to be Pixxed on by your kind.

The very same guys who pay your wages.

Degrees are great aren't they? I could care less about the 4 that I have. I make better money using my brain
Although the paper opens doors, it can also perform other useful tasks like bathroom sanitation.

I wouldn't dare disparge anyone's education or lack of it. But sometimes common sense is remarkably uncommon


I am not anti-research at all. I thrive, nay, I revel in it! However sometimes the ends does not always justify the means.

For example: If all it took was to cure cancer was the death of someone's small child would it be worth it? Sure it would, but rational to justify that end with the means of death to one seems somewhat against my greater sense of humanity somehow.

[Got Juice?]

PS Greylynx, I owe you a beer sometime.

[bb356]

Where's BG ?

[Arachnodisiac]

I'd buy him a beer too.
But it would have to be Guinness. In an uppity academic setting, with a vegetarian menu and possibly jazz music playing loudly in the background.

(I kid, I kid! I don't even know where a place like that exists!)

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

PS Greylynx, I owe you a beer sometime.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

I'd buy him a beer too.
But it would have to be Guinness. In an uppity academic setting, with a vegetarian menu and possibly jazz music playing loudly in the background.

(I kid, I kid! I don't even know where a place like that exists!)

The Faculty Club at the U of A is very nice.

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by greylynx

The Faculty Club at the U of A is very nice.

But does their parking lot allow ample space for pick-ups? And do they serve meat? Otherwise, I'm afraid I'll have to renege on my offer.

[Got Juice?]

I LOOOVE Guinness! And McKewan's Scotch Ale!



Old Joke: Where does Boddington's come from? Answer: From the BLADDER of a Guinness drinker! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

Old Joke: Where does Boddington's come from? Answer: From the BLADDER of a Guinness drinker! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ha! Perhaps old, but still very clever!

[Iron Brew]

Greylynx and Gotjuice... You two miss the point... Almost everytime there is something reeking of science mentioned on this forum, there is a "what is the point of that" reaction. After a while, you get kinda sick of it. Jonathan - you know I make my living NOT in the research field - not even remotely close, but I understand why the research is done (although I shake my head by times too). If they were doing this and releasing these ants, I'd be jumping up and down too. But finding out they can "turn on" the dormant genes is very important. Having science dumped on by reactionaries gets old.

I also fail to understand why when it is reactionaries jumping up and down and screaming, that is fine, but when somebody points out the other side they are immediately rubbing your noses or being crucified for disagreeing and being educated snobs. Honestly, the reactionary tone is usually far more offensive on this forum. People are willing to take hunting or fishing or firearms advice from people that are better educated in those fields, and indeed seek it out, but science, healthcare and education... nonono... bad words on here. Don't listen to those who have any training or background in these.

I think I need to take a break from the forum for a while.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

Greylynx and Gotjuice... You two miss the point... Almost everytime there is something reeking of science mentioned on this forum, there is a "what is the point of that" reaction. After a while, you get kinda sick of it. Jonathan - you know I make my living NOT in the research field - not even remotely close, but I understand why the research is done (although I shake my head by times too). If they were doing this and releasing these ants, I'd be jumping up and down too. But finding out they can "turn on" the dormant genes is very important. Having science dumped on by reactionaries gets old.

I also fail to understand why when it is reactionaries jumping up and down and screaming, that is fine, but when somebody points out the other side they are immediately rubbing your noses or being crucified for disagreeing and being educated snobs. Honestly, the reactionary tone is usually far more offensive on this forum. People are willing to take hunting or fishing or firearms advice from people that are better educated in those fields, and indeed seek it out, but science, healthcare and education... nonono... bad words on here. Don't listen to those who have any training or background in these.

I think I need to take a break from the forum for a while.

LOL, I'm kinda cranky of late... sleep is tough when it is 5.2 degrees C in the garage.
Besides, you know my train of thought has not been the most congenial of late. Although you did bring up a term I like... Crucify...I know a certain insurance company owner who I would love to.......

[TreeGuy]

No one is disputing the importance of research. It's vitally important to all of our future's.

It's about forming a hypothesis, then investigating it by asking questions. Yet when we ask questions of those asking the questions, we're suddenly labled 'anti-science'. Ironic, eh?

Speaking personally, I'm a huge fan of science. So huge in fact that I'm absolutely horrified about what it has become in the public areana over the the past decade. Science is about purity and absence of bias. Yet it has somehow been overtaken by politics, agendas and snivelling little funding wh0res willing to produce results for whoever pays the bills.

We need look no further than the al gores and david suzikis of the world. The UN and it's vaunted IPCC. Or our very own grizzly bear survey....

Time and time again, science seems to be failing us. Logically I know that this isn't truely the case, but some days it sure feels that way and leaves a pretty damn bitter taste in it's wake.

Forgive me for being jaded, but I know I am not the only one.


Then when we have highly educated individuals making statements like....

We need env oversight and research. Just ask people in places like Antigonish where cancer rates are off the charts due to industrial pollution. They aren't just old people either. It's children and youths and people in the prime of their working life. This could be a future AB faces.

...then refusing to defend their statement when called on it, the suspicion and bitterness only grows.

(BTW, Beeguy, I'm originally from Antigonish and would still LOVE to hear about all of this industrial pollution you purport to know so much about....)

But I digress.


Science. We need you. It's just doesn't mean we're not going to stop asking questions either.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

Degrees are great aren't they? I could care less about the 4 that I have..

Your speaking of camshaft degrees....aren't you???....just kidding

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Speaking personally, I'm a huge fan of science..... but some days it sure feels that way and leaves a pretty damn bitter taste in it's wake.Science. We need you..

Couldnt resist and it's all still in order of your typing LOL

[TreeGuy]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Then you came back...

.....and I remembered.

Jerk.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Then you came back...

.....and I remembered.

Jerk.

Its was just the booze talking....baby.....forgive me!

[uglyelk]

Bee Guy your certainly enamoured with yourself. Glad someone loves ya!




Science the people who gave us thalidamide, yes lets all kneel at your infallibile peer review alter and worship! Your a God like creature your a man of science, if any of us less learned folks missed it I'm sure you'll explain it to us stupid folk one more time. ain't you special!

I know lots of folks whom might be considered your peers who pursue funding with the parks. Some impress me, some are dolts. :insert thumbs down smiley here:

Got no use for the ones that think their degree or research make them special. (think you might be in that group) It's been my experience that scientists study that which they don't understand. I'm surprised at how little some of the "experts" know. :insert pie in face icon here: Most experts I've met are snot nosed punks fresh out of schoool chasing cash.

I'm kind of shocked by the worthless garbage that is paid for by parks that was marketed as science. I listened to a report in a meeting one afternoon where a learned scientist pursuing his next degree at McGill told us how elk were displacing beaver in the Vermillion wet lands.

Why? Well the elk had eaten all the willow....we then got a 15 minute discourse into willow branch sizes and density and the deduction that beavers prefer willow branches that are1.5 to 2.5 cm in thickness.

Well I have a habit of speaking my mind and asked why did we we pay for this? A three year study to tell us their are lots of elk and no beaver? That's easy to see no study required. Oh but we have this new knowledge on the prefered size of beaver snacks??? Why the "H" didn't we just save a ton of cash and ask a trapper? My family has been baiting traps with willow and poplar as thick as out thumbs for about 190 years. (My thumb is 2.25 cm wide) The men of science were not impressed with me and I was not impressed with them...oh well at least the thirty something cityslicker from quebec learned what beaver eat.

So it cost us three years salary and three years expense, it's only government money and now that guy has another degree and can charge more and score more funding....he's a serious expert now!

I'm also surprised at how some graduate student can be a wolf expert and when the thesis submission gets the thumbs down they suddenly become elk expert or caribou expert. Hey what ever gets funded and gives you the designation, jump on the band wagon.

Bee Guy thanks for jumping on your own band wagon and telling us how special you are. I'm sure everyone is now as impressed with you as we were before when we didn't recognise your handle.

There are two kinds of men of science. We have guys like Dale who don't talk down to folks and share knowledge....then we got those other *****s ...don't want to start pointing fingers here.

So Bee Guy if I wanted trap one of these super ants what size bait do you recon i'd need to bait the trap...and do have any hints for curing the hide? Do you have anything to share with this community other than your special and we are stupid?

Uglyelk KMA

(your a smart guy I'm sure your familiar with the designation.)

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by greylynx

You missed the point.

I smell intellectual snobbery on this thread.

The "I went to university and I am smarter than you" snobbery on this thread.

I stuck up for the guys that don't like to be Pixxed on by your kind.

The very same guys who pay your wages.

Ding ding ding!

Ugly Elk ...KMA

oh and feel free to study the gas that emits from my designation as an alternative source of energy you learned chaps who will save the world with your big brains and wee egos....or is that backwards...it's tough being one of the stupid folk we can't keep the data straaight and we are easy to confuse.

you guys smart or are you just as holes?

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Your speaking of camshaft degrees....aren't you???....just kidding

nope.

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

No one is disputing the importance of research. It's vitally important to all of our future's.

It's about forming a hypothesis, then investigating it by asking questions. Yet when we ask questions of those asking the questions, we're suddenly labled 'anti-science'. Ironic, eh?

On the surface, you speak with influence, confidence and logic.
But let's take a look back through this thread and examine the quality of the questions being asked.

Originally Posted by Calamity

Thank God for Raid...the garden variety ants we have here are a pain in the patootie when they start making forays into the house! Hope it works on Uber-ants, too.

Oh. So, no questions here at all. Just an assumption that these military ants are on the edge of invasion like so many George W. Bush soldiers waiting for the next cache of WMD not to exist. Got it.

And then, we go from a few non-questions to this gem of public advocacy:

Originally Posted by leeaspell

How do you find this crap? To you just constantly browse news pages?
But the big question is, Who the hell is funding scientist to develope super ants?
There is so much money wasted on stupid crap like this. Couldnt these scientist be better used somewhere else. We can build super ants but we cant cure ......
We have people dying everyday from diseases but scientist are spending their time creating super ants???? No wonder the world is in the shape it is

So here, we have four questions, punctuated by no less than seven question marks, thereby ensuring these inquiries are completely qualified and relevant to the subject matter.

Except that the entire position here was clearly formed by someone who either failed to read the entire article which actually does a reasonable job of explaining the importance of being able to turn on and off previous genetic adaptations through an environmental means. The magnitude of this discovery has incredible implications for... wait for it...
the precise fields of research he claims this study robs resources from.
The other option is that he (or she) read the entire article and didn't understand it and instead of asking questions that would aid his understanding, he lashed out trying to discredit all of it.

And then, we have this contribution in response to the above.

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

Amen !!!

Clearly, with such an engaged public, science can only get better, right?

And then Slivers does an admirable job of defending the BeeGuy, which is a little confusing because up until then, he hadn't even posted anything. Which means he is either attacked frequently, Slivers is a seer, or BeeGuy deleted a post. But in general, his post is diplomatic and even ends with a note of humour in a valiant (but failed) effort to introduce comedic relief in order to defuse the situation before it escalates.

But, this repeat poster is unwilling to accept the olive branch.

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Im sorry, I dont see an advancment in ant very significant, they have gone thousands of years just fine on their own. Look what happened when "scientist" figured it would "bee" a good idea to breed regular honey bees with african honey bees. Just people inventing stuff that serves no purpose but to justify a pay cheque.
While we are at it, lets turn domestic dogs back to wild dogs and say we discovered that dogs psses genes simaliar to wolves
This is just what dying and starving people in the world are waiting for, super ants.
I stand by me previos comment, these people could be doing something more important for "humanity" then geneticly breeding ants.
the hell with it, lets fund someone to grow a wolley mammoth is a dish and breed them for us to hunt, because you know, its in human genitacs that we were at one time able to hunt them

Again, the article was not read or understood. This study was not performed to help the ants survive a zombie apocalypse and thus, it's entirely unqualified, and an utter waste of time to try and use as an example of how the public should or could potentially exchange ideas with the scientific community to guide their research ideas.

And so it goes.

Through it all, no one asked how the study was funded, what other projects this group has worked on, what they might be working on in the future and if the results were published and peer-reviewed yet. THOSE are the kinds of questions that the public must ask if they want to claim any kind of intellectual right over the science currently being produced.

And the public cannot have it both ways. When science is funded by private money, the researchers are *****s. When it is funded by public money, they are leeches. In both cases, they are usually seen to be conspiring to strangle the corporate world with their research.

Most of the anti-science posts I have seen were written by misguided and politically indoctrinated individuals. And then, every once in a while, I see someone like you post. You are clearly intelligent enough to grasp the specifics of this study and yet, you chose to use your writing skills and vocabulary to reinforce a position that is beneath you intellectually, which only reinforces and justifies those that have been indoctrinated with those flawed beliefs. In other words, you give people the confidence to remain brainwashed. But why? What advantage could this possibly provide to you? (Unless of course, fancy yourself part of the corporate elite under scientific attack.)

So yes, please. Let's all keep asking questions of science. But let's ask intelligent questions about specific studies rather than this hogwash. Then perhaps, the scientific community will start to value public input rather than feel raped by it.

[leeaspell]

I was just waiting for you to reply to a pm so you can tell me what to say so I can sound smart like you. All us unedgemacated people on here have been waiting for the messiah and now we found him.

After reading all of the post I have developed a new attitude on this subject. And as for lenght of time since I posted last what does that have to do with anything.

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

I was just waiting for you to reply to a pm so you can tell me what to say so I can sound smart like you. All us unedgemacated people on here have been waiting for the messiah and now we found him.

Her. Found her.
I honestly didn't mean to sound quite as condescending as I probably did...
I think we all need to keep asking questions, I just think they need to be good quality ones, free of the political rhetoric that causes types of conflicts like this all the time now.

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by greylynx

I smell intellectual snobbery on this thread.

The "I went to university and I am smarter than you" snobbery on this thread.

I don't smell anything but want of confidence.

I was just reminded of another recent thread where the fact that youngesters don't "fail" in school any more was something that was lamented.

There are right and wrong answers. There always have been. Have we become such sissies that to have our errors pointed out to us hurts our feelings to the point where we retaliate by name calling?

Maybe we have. We've raised the sissies who can't take a failing grade in elementary school.

Why is it that someone who clears a misconception with post secondary gained information is a "snob," but someone who clears a misconception with knowledge gleaned elsewhere isn't?

[leeaspell]

But without stupid questions you won't be able to tell what a smart question is. You need something to compare against lol. And no worries about being condescending, its the internet, gotta take everything with a grain of salt.

Ps welcome to AO, where the fun and games are never ending.

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

But without stupid questions you won't be able to tell what a smart question is. You need something to compare against lol. And no worries about being condescending, its the internet, gotta take everything with a grain of salt.

Ps welcome to AO, where the fun and games are never ending.

Thank you

Glad to be here. And glad I haven't ben run out yet.